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Thread: Has anyone else noticed?
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2017-02-22, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Has anyone else noticed?
So, I've been on GiantITP, for about a couple months here, and for the most part am enjoying the community. One thing I really can't stand, is the lack of Dungeon and Game Masters on this forum. I understand it can be a thankless job, I personally love it, but I would like to try my hand at a PC for once in my tabletop career. The DM registry is honestly no help at all, as I can't buy a reply from anyone available to run a game.
But enough of my rant...
I was just curious, playgrounders, if anyone knew of a better place to post a "Looking for DM" thread. Love the community, but let's be honest, the registry is a joke. I've tried Roll20, TheEscapist, and on here to no avail, so it's time to move on to greener pastures...
Has anyone had any success with any websites that I haven't listed? If so could you please disclose this info to me, it would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. If anyone knows any reliable DMs who are partial to running games of 3.5/4e/5e/Pathfinder please point me in the right direction.
Much Thanks,
MC
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2017-02-22, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Yep it's been noticed:
Is there a DM shortage? What can or should be done?
My guess is that 3.5 and 5e D&D has too few willing DM's for how many would-like-to-player's they are, wheras other RPG's have too few willing players per would-like-to-GM.
Sorry that I don't have a solution.
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2017-02-22, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Are you looking for a dm to play a specific game, or just need to find someone willing to do the work to be a dm? Have you already got a group, or are you looking for one of those too?
This is going to sound somewhat acerbic, but I think the whole concept of asking someone to do work you don't want to do for your enjoyment is a bit rich. Don't et me wrong, there's definitely people who enjoy DMing and don't mind the work involved (I would be up for it myself for you if it was in person and I had time), but I think you're simply discovering the problem this concept has at a more fundamental level. I think that finding just a gm is a long shot under the best circumstances. Either you're looking for a group, or your stepping up and being the dm for your friends. I think those are your only realistic options.
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2017-02-22, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I assume your talking about play by post and not tabletop? After all tabletop depends on where you live.
But for play by post, it does work both ways. A DM puts up a thread looking for players....they get maybe 4-5 people that respond with the ''oh-my-gosh-I-want-to-play!'' excitement...maybe make a post or two...and then vanish. Suddenly they don't post anymore and don't answer PMs (or they have a full mailbox).
And you can see plenty of them that say ''views 102, replies 0'' too.
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2017-02-22, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Well see I would agree with you if I had never DMed before. But the cold hard truth is that everyone loves to play, but not reciprocate. I'm not looking for the end all save all, I just want someone who is willing to try to get a group off the ground.
I've had no less than half a dozen games fall apart because of my PLAYERS, and that gets old very fast. I don't take offense to your forthrightness, but c'mon, I'm not a spring chicken here. I know what goes into running a game. You can spend as much or as little time as you want and still come away with something playable.
As for your questions, I would play just about anything right now and I ALWAYS have a group on standby. The DM is the only piece of the puzzle that's missing. As I said in my first post, I just wanted to try my hand at a PC for the first time in perhaps ten years, but that seems to be quite the daunting task.
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2017-02-22, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
There's literally like 800 games looking for players on roll20 right now?
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2017-02-22, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I think the real issue is that online games with strangers, and PbP games in particular, just fail 99% of the time. If you want to get into a good group and have some fun, try meeting up with some real people and rolling some real dice. The Internet can help with that whole "meeting people" thing, too.
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2017-02-22, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I take a little bit of umbrage with this part, because there are GMs who have ideas, and love to run them. I've got several games on the go myself (not D&D, so I can't really speak to those, but it's still a system where there is a severe shortage of GMs compared to players), and they're just as enjoyable to me as playing a PC, because I get to bring my ideas to life, and get to share them with people.
I understand that GMing requires investments of many things, and not everyone is willing or able to pay it. But to suggest that no one enjoys the GMing side of things does those that pour their souls into their creations a disservice.
Edit:
Yeah, this is a good point. I highly recommend to anyone running PbP, or wanting to get involved with PbP at all, get a real time chat going. Skype, Discord, whatever. Get to know the players as people. I've seen the difference it makes in games survivability, and often games can recruit right out of those chats, because they're people they know and can trust.Last edited by DataNinja; 2017-02-22 at 01:45 PM.
The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.
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2017-02-22, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Personally, I'm pretty skeptical of my own ability to properly participate in a PBP game, either as a player or as the DM. Though I'm usually not the first person to drop out, I'm definitely kind of flaky, and I always hate myself for disappointing the other players. Even if I enjoy the game, I somehow lose not interest, but the... willingness to post? That reminds me, I have a couple other projects I should get back to...
When I DM, I tend to put a lot of effort and detail into my plans (and especially settings), definitely more than I have to. It's much more satisfying to do that for a group of friends than for a group of online strangers who might drop out without a word. The last thing I'd want is to be "recruited" as DM for an existing group that already has a game in mind.
I've had a relatively steady IRL group for as long as I've played (almost universally as the DM), and currently I'm DM'ing one live game while playing in another. It'd probably take a pretty major dry spell to get me DM'ing a PBP game instead.Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2017-02-22 at 01:47 PM.
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2017-02-22, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Are you talking about DMs to run online games? Generally speaking, I've found the majority of older DMs (which is the majority of DMs once you move outside of HS lunch breaks and Dorm rooms) don't like online games very much in comparison to running them in person. Try your local game shops. Once you start interacting with them, you'll probably find the folks that maintain their own groups and/or email distros of players for home sessions, even home AL sessions (for D&D). Or do you live in an area that game shops are not really an option for you? In that case, if you can, make some travel plans to hit conventions that include the games of your choice and get contacts there for future online play. Finding online DMs can be quite the chore if you don't make an effort to get into the community. And for TRPG posting on a forum isn't really getting into the community. It's still very heavily convention based.
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2017-02-22, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
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2017-02-22, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Roll20 doesn't work in "Mobile" if you won't buy a subscription.
I'm privileged to play intoo many PbP ar this Forum, and whats worked for me is to try to have a bunch of different PC's "sheets" at Myth-Weavers.com ready to go, and do an "Instant e-mail" subscription to the Finding Players (Recruitment) thread.
Also write a couple of real long tragic back-stories to submit to the DM's. The longer and more tragic the more likely it is that a DM will accept you.
Yeah, always playing brooding PC's weighed down by the ghosts of their lost loved ones, is lame, but I've found that DM's just count words and tears when deciding whom shall play, and other than being a way for DM's to judge potential players they ignore what you write so you're actually free to play something fun once the game starts. Just write-up a Mad Max-ish survivor haunted by a tragic past, and BAM! in like Flynn (you csn read the couple that have worked best for me at the Backstory for a happy Adventurer? thread).
Sadly unless you're a player in the few PbP's that last (Ninja_Prawn and Theoboldi DM a couple of the few that do), you'll be lucky to get in one that lasts longer than a month (that's why I'm in too many right now. I assume most won't last and I hope one will).
Slightly more games that I've gotten to play end when the GM stops posting, but all lose players (I've never stopped posting if there was something I could think of a response to, but I did have one PC climb out of a window to escape the setup, and I narrated another PC fight to his death because the DM insisted on my paying up to view a map at Roll20, when I repeatedly begged for a description of what my PC perceived).
While I imagine a lasting game would be great, most of the PbP I've played is still fun for me, and I just don't have enough solid blocks of free-time available for IRL or video conferencing games.
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2017-02-22, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
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2017-02-22, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I guess part of it might depend on the community. I know I do most of my games in the PTU community, where it's fairly small. So there's not really the ability to just go "well, there's thousands of other people there who'll probably run a game to join". So, I've noticed a fairly sizeable proportion at least try their hand at GMing. Many don't succeed, but at least an attempt was made.
The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.
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2017-02-22, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
This is true...but this is the way things should be.
In the Time before Time, you had players and GMs. They were separate. In fact, get this, most players would not even ''know'' the rules or own a rule book.
Then came the New Age, and every gamer owns every book and ''player'' and ''DM'' are just hats toss around in a group (and worse as while player is ''almighty demigod'', DM gets reduced to ''just a player with a meaningless title''.)
And now you get today....the Wasteland. Lots of burned out gamers who are so confused as to what a DM or Player even is. They still, vaguely, want to game...but they are not sure ''as'' what. Of course 99% of all gamers are players, so people default to that....
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2017-02-22, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I'm apparently a great GM in real life, but I really really really dislike running pbp so just don't do it anymore. It's just so draining and everyone is so flaky and games with turn-based mechanics are horrors to attempt in pbp format.
Last edited by Milo v3; 2017-02-22 at 08:54 PM.
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2017-02-22, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I disagree with this. While there may be some people content to just GM, or just play, it all comes down to how you enjoy the game. I like both GMing and playing. I get different satisfaction out of both.
As a GM, I develop a world, I let my players explore it, and I get to see how they react, and act accordingly. It's great fun whenever the players do something that you don't expect, and, conversely, there's just so much fun when you manage to surprise them with a cool thing despite all their guessing and paranoia. I'm a GM because it means I get to invite people into my toybox, and have help making a story.
As a PC, I explore the world. Being able to see how things work, the feeling of discovery and adventure as you work your way through the GM's world, and finding the surprises they have in store for you? It's amazing, especially when you're with friends, and have a GM who's passionate about their world. Even if it's less than stellar, it still gives me a chance to immerse myself in a character, something that's a lot harder to do as a GM, where you have hundreds of characters to wear. I'm a PC because it means that I get to be someone else, I get to explore a place with my friends, and have a sense of adventure.
A person shouldn't be pigeonholed into one role if they don't want to. If they're perfectly happy to do that, then all the power to them. But I know I, for one, am someone who has, well, still am, doing both.
I'm the other way around, personally. I don't have the spur-of-the-moment improvisation needed for a real time game, so if the players do something really unexpected, I can have at least a few hours to whip up something, and have it all go... semi-smoothly, at least. And, yeah... I have noticed that the retention rate of PbP is something to be desired, but things went far better once my gaming community started encouraging Skype chats, and players started getting to know each other as people. It's amazing how just the ability to idly chit-chat with people means they're less likely to vanish.The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.
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2017-02-23, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I'm not saying there should be some kind of Rule and a Black SUV of gamer thugs to enforce it. It's more just about knowing ones self and your place.
The lie many have been told over the last generator or two is ''anyone can be anything'' , and that is simply not true. And it does not matter what a ''person wants'', as things just ''are''.
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2017-02-23, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
But what if most people who play "are" both? In my anacdotel experience the best player's I've had were also good GM's, and the times I've actually had a chance to be a player, the GM's have said it's refreshing to see how I play. All the times I can think of people who have done both, my experience has been that seeing the game from extra points of view has helped them be better at the game overall and made the experience better for everyone involved.
Last edited by Milo v3; 2017-02-23 at 07:41 AM.
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2017-02-23, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I personally am a fan of monitoring my players, seeing which ones seem to have potential as GMs, and then grooming them into GMs over one or two short campaigns.
That way I get to play (which I love) and I get to GM (which I love) and I have players who get to try GMing with confidence and thus far I've had actual successes and produced 2 or 3 GMs who enjoy GMing.
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2017-02-23, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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- Right behind you!
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2017-02-23, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Well, there are some rare example of people that are both...like maybe the entire gaming community of Australian and every single person you know. But even so the with all unbelievable amazing gamers that you know, that still leaves all the ones you don't know that are normal and only one thing or the other, but not both.
But then too, it might depend on your own personal view of what is ''good'' too. After all you might, for example, think the DM that says ''everyone get max hit points and, oh, then I'm going to avoid like having monsters directly attack you most of the time anyway so I can sit back and watch you all make an amazing story together'' is a ''good DM''.
So it depends.
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2017-02-23, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
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Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Darth Ultron, I think you're presenting a false dichotomy here. Player vs DM isn't an either/or situation. It's true that some people are better at one or the other while other people are great at both, but what we're talking about are skills that can be learned and improved upon.
Those people who are not great at both, they still deserve the chance to find out. They still deserve the opportunity to improve themselves. They still deserve the choice to do both despite your insistence that they shouldn't.
Personally, I believe the best way to become a good DM is by learning game as a player first and then transitioning to learning the extra skills needed to be a DM. Then, once you've become a good DM, those skills will generally transfer over to different games and all you have to do is learn a new set of rules.
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2017-02-23, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
This
Also, I will say that a lot of the seeming overabundance of players is in part based on the difference between player and GM commitment in a game. It's been mentioned that a lot of avid PbP players are in a dozen games at a time still searching recruitment threads, while DMs who get one game, maybe two, are committed for the long haul and can't really post interest in running other games.
You can see where the problem is, yes? In a community of 240 players and 60 DMs, you've got a good mix. Unfortunately, when 50 of those 60 DMs are committed to their games, each with 4 players in them, you've still got about 270 players looking for more games, and only 10 DMs who can cater to new entries. There's quite a few DMs in the Roleplaying forums; there's no real lack of them. It's just that the structure of looking for games leads to players being far more visible than DMs.
Every real life group I've been in has had one of the players try their hand at running games at some point. Every. Single. One. The people I hold regular conversations with are in the same boat.
I get the feeling that it's your perspectives that are warped by online games. In meatspace gaming, people who play and DM are quite common. Less so in open tables at adventure league, granted, but people having fun on both sides of the screen is the norm. It's all about the group, after all, and just hanging out with friends and gaming is usually going to be a good time, no matter how good or bad a worldbuilder or writer the players or DMs are.
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2017-02-23, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
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2017-02-23, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
There is a reason why I acknowledged it is anecdotal evidence (though not all are "unbelievably amazing gamers", I also said most for a reason, please don't try to turn my arguments into a weird fantasy land thing). I just find it strange you feel that there is such a dichotomy between Player and GM when my experience has been that the games have been "people who are good players tend to be good GM's" and vice versa.
But then too, it might depend on your own personal view of what is ''good'' too. After all you might, for example, think the DM that says ''everyone get max hit points and, oh, then I'm going to avoid like having monsters directly attack you most of the time anyway so I can sit back and watch you all make an amazing story together'' is a ''good DM''.
So it depends.Last edited by Milo v3; 2017-02-23 at 04:13 PM.
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2017-02-23, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
Honestly the forums frequently feel hostile, as GM. I can't speak too much beyond the 5e forums and maybe it's just a vocal minority but it seems like folks just actively think the the worst of GMs. Any/All rulings are made in bad faith, any/all adjustments to the RAW are totally unfair unless written down 6 months in advance and filed in triplicate. RAW is god and CharOP his first commandment, all those things not in service to god and his law are heresy, to be reviled and purged. It feels like there are a lot of folks who just want a GM to be a processing node that lets them exercise their cool builds against monsters and any expression of personal preference is them stepping way, way, way out of bounds.
That's on the forum supposedly most open to "rulings not rules" and flexibility. I mean why come on and say OK my player has come in with this weird "Coldsteel" knockoff using mechanics that are really disruptive, I need a good way to make a graceful exit for him. When the answer is just going to be how I'm doing things wrong by not being accommodating enough?Last edited by IShouldntBehere; 2017-02-23 at 05:09 PM.
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2017-02-23, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
This, I have to agree with to some degree. Some of the more vocal parts of the community can be really judgemental of GMs and quickly assume the worst of them, especially when they make an actual mistake.
And god forbid you try and eun an unpopular setting or type of game. You'll occasionally have people come into your recruitment threads just to tell you that they're not interested and that your game sucks because of reasons.
Not to mention the already existing issue of the GM being the first ond to get blamed when a mechanic doesn't work as you'd like it to or when he dares to get lucky on his dice rolls against you.
Sorry. Just had to rant about some recent experiences a little. I've had a lot of fun running games with some of the better players around here, but sometimes the forums can be incredibly hostile towards GMs. >.>
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2017-02-23, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I'm not sure this is an age thing - while actual data is missing regardless, the anecdata I have suggests that every age bracket is dominated by people who would rather run games in person or will only run games in person. I've done some online GMing (not play by post), as have various other people I know, and every last one of us favors in person games, regardless of age. On top of that, basically none of us are willing to run games for complete strangers - internet-known people are one thing, rules might get bent a bit for people we don't know but that are personally known to (internet-)known people, so that ends up excluding a lot of the online games category.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2017-02-23, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: Has anyone else noticed?
I set up the account but the "map" said "Mobile Browsers Not Supported"
Since this doesn't reflect well on me it can be an object lesson to the OP as to why a DM may be "selective":
Spoiler: The tale