Advice for Traveling

[Chris the Pontifex]

If I may be so bold, visit the Netherlands, but not Amsterdam or the bible belt (yes, we have a bible belt, Staphorst and virtually all the other traditional clothing places are in there), visit a smaller city like Zwolle, Deventer, Groningen, Nijmegen or any of the plenty of other options, those places really capture the spirit of the NL.

Seeing the true spirit of the NL is about as interesting as seeing the true spirit of Alabama...

I think Amsterdam is a lot nicer to visit, if I think of what I would look for when visiting other countries. (apart from nice rock to climb that is)

EDIT: then again I'm a city's type of person, who needs stimulation all the time, a supermarket thats open 8to10 every day, and everything I want within arms (or bicycle's) reach all the time.

[GryffonDurime]

Some great advice, all around so far.

I've been traveling England and living in London for nearly three weeks, but this will be my first excursion to the continent. Paris...I want to see Notre Dame, and it's part of my curriculum to search out medieval sites. If anyone knows any in Brussels or Paris, please, keep them coming.

Beyond that? I hear things about Bruges. I've got train tickets booked already from London to Brussels, to and back, and a hostle in Brussels booked as well. So any suggestions...should please keep in mind that I've got a fairly inflexible home-base for my journeys. How does the Paris metro compare to the Tube? Because I love the Tube. It works like a dream. It's magic covered in honey and dipped in chocolate.

[Miklus]

If you like "The Tube", you'll love the Metro. They got these trains with rubber wheels! They go up and down steep gradiants like a roller coaster. They totally burn rubber at start and stop. And you learn new french words, especially "pardon", which you will hear many, many times as the locals body-tackle you or feel you up. The correct answer to "pardon" is of couse "Vous êtes une femme avec des boules!". (No, don't say that! ) But as I said earlier, the layout can be a little confusing at first:



If you get busted without a ticket, just play dumb and say "No habla espaniol". It worked for me. But DO avoid the metro at night, that's when all the really wierd parisians come out. It's pretty safe, though...compared to New York...

[bosssmiley]

Some great advice, all around so far.

I've been traveling England and living in London for nearly three weeks,

Your good taste is noted.

but this will be my first excursion to the continent. Paris...I want to see Notre Dame, and it's part of my curriculum to search out medieval sites.

Paris: expect to be ripped off, overcharged and treated like a nuisance by the Parisians. They farm tourists the way their ancestors farmed calves and geese. Notre Dame, the Tuilleries and the Eiffel Scaffold are ok (when are the lazy Frogs gonna finish it though?), but avoid the Louvre unless you enjoy queue-ing like you're in some kinda baroque kitsch Disneyworld-gone-mad.

France: lovely country, ruined by the inhabitants. Fortunately the Brits are gradually buying the place up and installing flush toilets.

Beyond that? I hear things about Bruges.

Open secret here: Lille and Bruges.
Gorgeous old town centres. Laid-back people. Decent prices. Good beer, great food (Belgium is the afterlife where good French and German cooking go if they live a virtuous life), nice sights. Get out of the tourist-trap EU-burg that is Brussels and Belgium is good to visit: they *know* they're not as cool as the Dutch, so they try harder.

I've got train tickets booked already from London to Brussels, to and back, and a hostel in Brussels booked as well. So any suggestions...should please keep in mind that I've got a fairly inflexible home-base for my journeys. How does the Paris metro compare to the Tube? Because I love the Tube. It works like a dream. It's magic covered in honey and dipped in chocolate.

The Tube works like a dream. Are we talking the same bewheeled Babel-in-the-ground here?

[Swedish chef]

Depending on how much time you have in London. If you have a day or two for discoveries I recommend "the London Dungeon". A "spookride" wich I found very fun and apealing. They also have an excellent giftshop. It might be considered by some as a little "cheesy or kitsch" horror but I loved it.

You should also find a Boots store. It's a pharmacy that has the most excellent footcream I have ever tried. After a day on foot in sweaty shoes with sores and blisters on the feet it's a dream to rub your feet with it (and no I dont get paid for this but the cream kind of saved my further touristing in London a coupple of years ago). The cream you want is their own brand and it has a greenish "non healthy" look. I advice to buy a jar.

[namo]

Paris: expect to be ripped off, overcharged and treated like a nuisance by the Parisians. They farm tourists the way their ancestors farmed calves and geese. Notre Dame, the Tuilleries and the Eiffel Scaffold are ok (when are the lazy Frogs gonna finish it though?), but avoid the Louvre unless you enjoy queue-ing like you're in some kinda baroque kitsch Disneyworld-gone-mad.

France: lovely country, ruined by the inhabitants. Fortunately the Brits are gradually buying the place up and installing flush toilets.

*cough*
*makes a mental list of all that's wrong with the UK*
*realizes it's too long and decides not to post it*

Paris is nice. Out of the top of my head, you have a big medieval section in the Louvre and you have a small museum called Cluny (5th arrondissement). Can't think of anything else right now, but medieval art has always been low on my list.

[Rykaj]

Best advice there is: Dress sharp and at least try to speak a language. People are generally really willing to help you out, but not if you look like a smudgy lost bum (who smells like wearing his underwear for 3 days). Oh and always wear a smile.

Paris: whenever I go there I always stay in the D'Artagnan hostel. I think about 18-20 euros per night, decent rooms, decent breakfast, lots of young travellers. Paris is really cool, but 1 day really doesn't do it justice.
- Other places in France: my favorite is by far Avignon, really beautiful vibrant city, especially if you visit during the summer festival (lasts about a month and a half I think).

Brussels vs Brugues discussion: I'd take Brugues. It has a really beautiful old city centre and is the origin of most of Belgiums chocolate and beer. Plus they have a really awesome and cheap hostel right in the city centre: Charley's Rockets or something. Brussels is really cool as well, I just think Brugues is more charming.

If you want to visit the Netherlands do visit Amsterdam. It might be touristic but it does capture the spirit quite well. If you want to spend more time visit then you can try visiting the cities Gezina named (great suggestions).

In Germany I think I most prefer Dresden, although Berlin is pretty cool as well.

Other suggestions for great towns are Barcelona, Lisbon, Rome (Italy has many other GREAT cities though) and Prague.

Try to stretch those five days, you can barely see anything! Europe is a big place, maybe you should stick to just one country. Or what was said already, a few days in Paris and a few in Brussels/Brugues. Most of all, have fun, meet lots of people and have fun.

[Maelstrom]

Paris: expect to be ripped off, overcharged and treated like a nuisance by the Parisians. They farm tourists the way their ancestors farmed calves and geese. Notre Dame, the Tuilleries and the Eiffel Scaffold are ok (when are the lazy Frogs gonna finish it though?), but avoid the Louvre unless you enjoy queue-ing like you're in some kinda baroque kitsch Disneyworld-gone-mad.

France: lovely country, ruined by the inhabitants. Fortunately the Brits are gradually buying the place up and installing flush toilets.

And your poor taste and rough manners are noted. Please return from the dark hole from whence you came...

As for getting away from Paris, try getting into Dijon. Still a complete medieval city (minus the walls) plenty of great things to see in this town, and in the surrounding coutryside...

[MostlyHarmless]

Ok, I'm glad someone mentioned Cluny. That's THE museum in Paris for Medieval art. It's in an old abbey with some Roman ruins to boot.
http://www.musee-moyenage.fr/ang/hom...20392_u1l2.htm

And don't waste your money on the Eiffel Tower. I've been to Paris over a dozen times and never ventured up it. You can get good free views of the city from the top of the escalators at the Centres George Pompidou or from the hill at Sacre Coeur. The weather is usually so dense and polluted the Eiffel won't get you any better visibility. I agree, save the Louvre for when you have 5 days in Paris alone. I myself love the Musée d'Orsay.

Day trips from Paris are good. Chartres has an exceptional cathedral. Get a guided tour and you will learn some amazing stuff about it. Further out is Dinan if you want a medieval town WITH walls. Rouen is close to Paris and has a very old feel to it, too. And for castles, I recommend Chinon for it's antiquity and history involving Jean d'Arc.

Now, aside from Paris, and if you have a train pass or something, my advice is to find a city that is far enough away and has an overnight train. That way you spend the night traveling and (assuming you can sleep on the train) wake up to see a new city each day. Possible stops should include Vienna, Rome, Prague, Berlin, and Copenhagen. They each have unique flavor and history to soak up. They all have youth hostels too.

Final tips, hide your goodies and watch your stuff. On the train, lock, tie, or somehow secure your luggage, even to your person if possible. People will come by and snatch things while you sleep. And if anyone approaches you at train stations, for anything, pretend not to understand and walk the heck away. People will try tricks like squirting you with ketchup so you have to set down your luggage to clean yourself, which they will then snatch. Just be aware and don't look confused or lost. If you need to check a map, pop into a store or cafe and be safer. Just my 2 centimes.

[GryffonDurime]

Update:
I have to say, Brussels was a bit underwhelming. It's a city, much like London--only smaller, and with a more pungent aroma. Dear sweet merciful panthercorns, the metro smells terrible.

Bruges, on the other hand, was beautiful, tranquil, pleasant, and it took the utmost concentration and effort for me to even attempt to get lost in it...which I couldn't. It's beautiful. When I get home, I'm opening a bank account for my newly established "Buy a damn house in Bruges fund".

So, Paris tomorrow and then on Monday back to London.

And I am sooooo very tired.

[The Great Skenardo]

Paris is an interesting cocktail of odors in itself.
It is a place of sharp smells. Urine, garbage, cigarrettes, urine again, and body odor.
There are many places (along the main streets, for example) that are exceptions to this rule of course, but once you start getting into the back streets or (heaven help you) on the metro, you encounter the very smell of civilization.

Also, I got my pocket picked on the paris metro once.

[InaVegt]

much talk about non Britain.

You accepting these so called "Shadow lands which don't actually exist" actually exist now?

[Miklus]

Also, I got my pocket picked on the paris metro once.

Unlucky, I just got insulted. I can't understand enough french to know what they said, but I understand laughing and pointing. Rude frenchmen? Really?! Also, one of the blonde girls in our group attracted the (most unwanted) attention of some sleazy frenchman who just would not go away. Only the threat of bodily harm finally made him scurry away.

But Paris is not all bad! It has this "latin quater" where there is nothing but resturants. Hundreds of them, door to door. I don't think we ever figured out the nationality of the one we got into.

[bosssmiley]

Bruges, on the other hand, was beautiful, tranquil, pleasant, and it took the utmost concentration and effort for me to even attempt to get lost in it...which I couldn't. It's beautiful. When I get home, I'm opening a bank account for my newly established "Buy a damn house in Bruges fund".

I love the smell of vindication in the morning. Smells like...smells like victory.

So glad you liked Bruges. It's just such a *proper* city, isn't it? Not too big, not too loud, but so interesting and welcoming. I can only think of a few other places that have manage to pull off the delicate 'tourist friendly but not spoiled by it' balance that Bruges has achieved. I'm keeping them to myself for now though.

You accepting these so called "Shadow lands which don't actually exist" actually exist now?

It is summer and, in a strange lemming-like herd movement I do not quite see the logic of, myriads of British tourists have left our blessed and climatically favoured land to shore up the existential integrity of all places foreign (which were, of course, created by the opium dreams of drug-addled aesthete Britons like de Quincy and Coleridge in the first place).

When the British leave them these places (even the quite lovely dream city of Bruges) will return to the nebulous and cloud-like shadow-stuff from which they were formed.

That's science that is!

[The Great Skenardo]

Unlucky, I just got insulted. I can't understand enough french to know what they said, but I understand laughing and pointing. Rude frenchmen? Really?! Also, one of the blonde girls in our group attracted the (most unwanted) attention of some sleazy frenchman who just would not go away. Only the threat of bodily harm finally made him scurry away.

But Paris is not all bad! It has this "latin quater" where there is nothing but resturants. Hundreds of them, door to door. I don't think we ever figured out the nationality of the one we got into.

The joke was on him, though; I was mostly carrying that wallet for show. The wallet itself was probably the most valuable thing in there. There might have been perhaps five euros in it, but the really great thing was a diner's club card from the forties, as well as a business card my great-grandfather used (he was a dentist).

I'd like to add my voice in supplication for restaurants in Paris, tho'. There's a place in Paris a bit off the main drag called Leo the Lion. It's a very small place; seats perhaps twenty people, but when you go in for dinner, you've committed to an entire evening of good food and wine and conversation with the other diners and the waitstaff and even the chefs.
Yum ^_^

[Miklus]

The joke was on him, though; I was mostly carrying that wallet for show. The wallet itself was probably the most valuable thing in there. There might have been perhaps five euros in it, but the really great thing was a diner's club card from the forties, as well as a business card my great-grandfather used (he was a dentist).

You sneaky ninja you!

I just remembered another fun thing about Paris. All cars have dents. All of them. We made a little game: The first person to find a car with no dents won. Nobody won. Every single car is banged up. HINT: If you park in Paris, leave your car in neutral. The cars are parked so close, the only way to get out is to drive back and forth, bumping the other cars out of the way! If you leave your car in gear, it can't move and will get smashed up.

@ GryffonDurime: Keep us updated if you survive the Metro And tell us what it smelled like

[InaVegt]

climatically favoured

You're feeling how we were feeling in '53 then?

[Miklus]

Has anyone heard from GryffonDurime lately, or are we to assume he/she got lost in the Metro and is now vandering around dazed and confused, force to live off half-eaten leftover croissants found in the garbage cans?

[phoenixineohp]

Watch out for your camera. Two friends I've had go to Europe have had theirs snatched.

In the hostels, look out for the other people. Apparently they are the trouble.

Have fun!

[The Great Skenardo]

In the hostels, look out for the other people. Apparently they are the trouble.

Quoted for Truth. One word for you:
Absinthe

[Rykaj]

In the hostels, look out for the other people. Apparently they are the trouble.

Hell no, as long as you use common sense. Don't go around hanging with obvious shady characters if you don't want to. But do take the trouble to go and meet them, it's what makes the trip fun. Most of them, nearly all of them in fact are really cool and in exactly the same situation as you are. Europe isn't some foul festering cesspit (sp?) of decay. Just use common sense, like you normally would.

And:

Have fun!

THIS is quoted for truth

[Muz]

Depending on how many trains you plan to be taking, I'd seriously consider getting a rail pass. They're more flexible than tickets for specific times, and if you use the train more than a few times, a railpass will save you money, too.

(Rick Steves' website has a good primer on rail passes on deciding if you should get one or not.)

I got a British rail pass when I went there last year, and it worked great. (Even let me get on the train out of Heathrow when I had an ATM snafu and couldn't get any money out.) I think you need different passes for Britain than continental Europe, but otherwise I think one will get you all around the mainland.

And get a moneybelt.

Edit: Come to think of it, that whole darn site is good for useful tips and planning help.