trying to build a class for mage hunter

[zenallaroza]

i'm trying to built a "mage slayer/hunter" class and i need help to keep the balance.
i could use your suggestions too.


this is what i've got so far:

Mage Slayer

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per Mage Slayer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution
modifier per Mage Slayer level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: All armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Athletics, Insight, intimidation,
Investigation, Perception, Arcana and Religion

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in
addition to the equipment granted by your
background: BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA




The Mage Slayer
Proficiency
Level Bonus Features
1st +2 Sense of Magic, Fighting style
2nd +2 Smite Magic
3rd +2 Archetype,
4th +2 Ability Score Improvement
5th +3 Extra Attack,
6th +3 Aura of Protection
7th +3 Archetype feature
8th +3 Ability Score Improvement
9th +4 Improved Sense of Magic
10th +4 Archetype feature
11th +4 Improved Smite Magic
12th +4 Ability Score Improvement
13th +5 Persistence
14th +5 Cleansing Touch
15th +5 Archetype Feature
16th +5 Ability Score Improvement
17th +6 Clear Eyesight
18th +6 Aura improvements
19th +6 Ability Score Improvement
20th +6 Strong Commitment


SENSE OF MAGIC
As a ritual, you can open your awareness to detect magic. For up to 10 minutes, you know the location of any magic, magical form (spell caster?!?, magical object, magical construct, etc) within 30 feet of you that is not behind total cover. In addition, you are aware whenever a spell activated within 30 feet of you.
You can use the feature a number of times equal to 1 + your Charisma Modifier. When you finish a long rest, you regain all uses.

FIGHTING STYLES
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.

DEFENSE
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

DUELING
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

GREAT WEAPON FIGHTING
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.

PROTECTION
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.


SMITE MAGIC
On a successful melee weapon attack against a spell caster (or creature with the ability to cast magic), you can choose to disturb his spellcasting ability. Until the end of his next turn, when he tries to cast a spell or a spell-like ability he must make a con saving throw. The DC equals to your spellcasting ability. On a failed save, he lose his spell slot and the spell has no effect. Alternative, as a ritual, you can totally cut off a “willingly” spell caster from his spellcasting ability for 24 hours.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier. When you finish a long rest, you regain all expended uses.

AURA OF PROTECTION
Starting at 6th level, whenever you or a friendly creature within 10 feet of you must take a saving throw against a spell, the creature gains a bonus to the saving throw equal to your Charisma modifier (with a minimum bonus of +1). You must be conscious to grant this bonus.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

IMPROVED SENSE OF MAGIC
At 9th level your awareness is passive and open all the time. You know the location of any magical form (spell caster, magical object, magical construct, etc.) within 60 feet of you that is not behind total cover. In addition, if you concentrate for 1 hour without any interruption, and you describe or name a “magical form” you are familiar to, you sense the direction to its location. If the “magical form” is in motion, you know the direction of its movement.

IMPROVED SMITE MAGIC????????
At 11th level, when you use the Smite Magic feature, the DC equals to your spellcasting ability + spell’s level. Alternative, as a ritual, you can cut off a willingly” creature’s spellcasting ability for up to 1 day/level.

PERSISTENCE
Starting at 13th level, your repulsion for magic can keep you fighting despite grievous wounds. lf you drop to O hit points while you’re fighting an enemy who uses magic or magic item, and don't die outright, you can make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. If you succeed, you drop to 1 hit point instead. Each time you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10.

CLEANSING TOUCH
Beginning at 14th level, you can use your action to end one spell. The DC equals to 10 + spell’s level. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once). You regain expended uses when you finish a long rest.

CLEAR EYESIGHT
At 17th as a ritual, you can change your eyesight. Your eyes’ color fades and you have truesight (for up to 8 hours?), the creature has truesight, notices secret doors hidden by magic, and can see into the Ethereal Plane, all out to a range of 120 feet.

STRONG COMMITMENT
At 20th level, , if you fail a spell save, you can treat the d20 roll as a 20. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.


ARCHETYPES
1 Archetype

BLOOD BOND WEAPON
When you take this Archetype at 3rd level you gain the following: As an action, you can imbue one weapon that you are holding with your blood energy. For 1 minute, you add your Charisma modifier to attack rolls made with that weapon against spell casters (with a minimum bonus of +1).The weapon also emits bright red light in a 20-foot radius and dim light 20 feet beyond that. If the weapon is not already magical, it becomes magical for the duration.
You can end this effect on your turn as part of any other action. If you are no longer holding or carrying this weapon, or if you fall unconscious, this effect ends.

AURA OF WARDING
Beginning at 7th level you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you have resistance to damage from spells.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feel.

10th????(i dont know)?????

AURA OF ANTIMAGIC FIELD
Beginning at 15th level, an invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to any magic.

2 Archetype

COUNTERSPELL
When you take this Archetype, at 3rd level you gain the following: You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. As a reaction, when a creature you can see within 30 feet of you, is casting a spell, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a success, the creature's spell fails and has no effect.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier. When you finish a long rest, you regain all expended uses.

CONSUME SPELL
At 7th level, whenever you successfully use the COUNTERSPELL feature you can consume instead the countered spell instead. You gain hit points equal to 1d4+Charisma Modifier per spell level.
Reverse spell
At 10th level, whenever you successfully use the COUNTERSPELL feature, you can reverse instead the countered spell to whichever target you want within 30 feet of you.

STEAL SPELL
At 15th level, whenever you successfully use the COUNTERSPELL feature, you can steal instead the countered spell. You can steal a spell (maximum spell level equals to your Charisma Modifier) an use it with your spellcasting ability, later until a long rest.

[JNAProductions]

Sense of Magic is like Divine Sense... Only hugely more powerful. Too powerful.

Fighting Style is fine, of course.

I'm a little leery of Smite Magic, but it SEEMS okay. What is your spellcasting save, though? You never say.

Aura Of Protection is like the Paladin's... Only weaker. This can be buffed, easily.

Improved Sense of Magic is, again, OP as hell. This pretty much totally negates any form of stealth if you have any sort of magic about you.

Improved Smite Magic is too much-that can easily reach a DC of 23 at this level.

Persistence can be buffed to just apply in general, like the Barbarian feature.

Cleansing Touch seems fine.

NO! Truesight 120' is WAY TOO DAMN GOOD. Rogues get Blindsight... 10'. At a similar level.

Strong Commitment is the same as the Rogue Capstone. Fine.

The first archetype is fine, except for the Antimagic Field. That's way, way too damn good.

Counterspell should be an opposed check, not a static DC.

Consume Spell seems fine.

The 10th level ability seems okay, so long as it's in place of Consume Spell.

You repeatedly mention spellcasting ability, but this class doesn't appear to have any.

[zeek0]

Hello!

I think the the idea of a mage hunter is quite prevalent, but difficult to express in D&D, since many dfferent enemies are fought, with many types of magical abilities.

This class would be effective against a cabal of witches, but I think the player would feel impotent against, say, a trio of ogres. Few enemies are so singularly magic driven.

Also, great care must be taken to strengthen the character against magic, but not to trivialize its power. A spellcaster villain shouldn't be shrugged off so easily if we value the power of the game as narrative.

To be specific to your work:
Every feature keys off of antimagic. Perhaps you can identify antimagic as a sub-theme of a larger ideal (for example, I'm working on a Marut-like paladin subclass now. The theme is the natural and of all things - but because offenders are frequently mages or liches, protections against magic are included.)

A base class is difficult to build in this regard. Perhaps your ideas would fit better as a Fighter, Monk, or Barbarian subclass?

[GalacticAxekick]

Overall balanced (JNA highlighted things to change better than I could), but I'm concerned about specialization. Your Mage Hunter shrugs off magical threats unbelievably easily, and at the same time has very few tools to fight non-magical threats.

Rather than granting ability after ability that nullifies or magic, why not look at the mechanics that magic depends upon and target them individually? Approaching it this way, you might find unique ways to nullify magic and ways to fight non-magical foes.

Target mechanics might include:

• Spell components (silence vs verbal, restrain vs somatic, disarming/sleight vs material)
• Concentration (features might demand Concentration saves for actions that don't normally require it, such as many spells and even some non-spells)
• Area of effect! Being able to physically move to escape and AoE or seek cover could be useful against spellcasters, dragons, some hazards, etc
• AC vs Saves. Being able to use AC instead of rolling a save would grant immense resistance to certain spell and non-spell effects. Maybe, when you would normally roll a Dex save, you may instead roll 1d20 + AC - 10

[zenallaroza]

First of all thanx for your replies, you gave me good time for thinking.
But i think that i have to be more specific about what i want.

i have created a world, and i want piece by piece to transfer it in dnd terms.
The Magic is one of the first elements and it is everywhere (something like air).
In that world there is a cult of fanatics that hunts down any magic being, magic user etc (burn the witches).
Now, those mates of mine, are not many but they have long history and plenty time to learn everything about magic and its uses. They train themselves to feel the magic around them, to endure against it by their own will and strong commitment to the cause and even manipulate it some times.

1) They are passionate and they hate magic. I think that their spellcasting ability must be Charisma like paladins!?
2) They are mainly fighters, so i gave them a) fighting styles, b) martial weapons, c)All armor and shields as well con save, but it is not enough? what else do you propose?
3) they can feel the "vibes of magic" so i gave them "SENSE OF MAGIC " and "IMPROVED SENSE OF MAGIC". I agree that it is op so maybe some kind of roll can balance it? what can be that?
4) "smite magic" and "improved smite magic" i think that they are important too, but the "ISM" must change...

about archetypes:
1) for the first of them i wanted to be something like "aura upon all", but i don't have a clue for what i can put for 10th, and for the first... well, it would be oxymoron to use a magic weapon but he will be in need eventually for something like this.
2) i think that this archetype is quite filled, except that i will follow @JNAProductions suggestion about opposed check for "counter-spell"
3) there is an even smallest group of "corrupted" runaways cultist. they believe that it is not mind to cast spells if it is for the greater purpose. This archetype is for those folks but i have not created it yet. i know that they are casters (a short spell list with choosen spells like eldritch knight or paladin).
I think thats all


@JNAProductions about truesight you are right... it is out but i don't think that Antimagic field is op if i put a "one per long rest". what do you think?


@GalacticAxekick i like your "AC vs Saves" idea

[JNAProductions]

Antimagic once per long rest should be fine. It was an always on aura that was absolutely bonkers.

[GalacticAxekick]

i have created a world, and i want piece by piece to transfer it in dnd terms.
The Magic is one of the first elements and it is everywhere (something like air).

In that world there is a cult of fanatics that hunts down any magic being, magic user etc (burn the witches).

Now, those mates of mine are not many but they have long history and plenty time to learn everything about magic and its uses. They train themselves to feel the magic around them, to endure against it by their own will and strong commitment to the cause and even manipulate it some times.

This is all fine, but this is setting-specific.

1) They are passionate and they hate magic. I think that their spellcasting ability must be Charisma like paladins!?

Class does not describe the race, background or personality of a character: only the powers they've acquired. Mage Hunters in your setting might be motivated by their hatred for magic, but that doesn't mean hatred for magic is an integral part of casting anti-magic spells.

Using Charisma as a spellcasting ability isn't a problem, but I personally think Intelligence or Wisdom would make more sense, representing knowledge or sense of magic.

2) They are mainly fighters, so i gave them a) fighting styles, b) martial weapons, c)All armor and shields as well con save, but it is not enough? what else do you propose?

Nobody said that isn't enough. But if they're "mainly fighters" this should be a Fighter subclass instead of a class of its own.

3) they can feel the "vibes of magic" so i gave them "SENSE OF MAGIC " and "IMPROVED SENSE OF MAGIC". I agree that it is op so maybe some kind of roll can balance it? what can be that?

Give them Detect Magic as a ritual for Sense of Magic, then give them Detect Magic as an action, limited per rest, for Improved Sense of Magic.

4) "smite magic" and "improved smite magic" i think that they are important too, but the "ISM" must change...

Ism? I'm not sure what you mean. Regardless, the problem with Smite Magic and Improved Smite Magic is that the way you wrote their saving throws.

In 5e, a spell save is 8 + proficiency + spellcasting ability modifier.
At 1st level, that's a max 8 + 2 + 3 = 13.
At 20th, that's a maximum 8 + 6 + 5 = 19.

Your Smite Magic has a DC 17 (from 17 Charisma) at 1st level.
Improved Smite Magic has a minimum DC 20 (from 20 Charisma and a cantrip), maximum 29 by 20th.

Instead of using your this saving throw system, use the ordinary one. 8 + Proficiency + Constitution modifier.

[zenallaroza]

ok.
so, i change:
- "sense of magic" with detect magic as a ritual
- "improved sense of magic" with detect magic as an action (limited times per rest)
- in the "smite magic" change the DC with that of the game's rules but that has as a result to throw away the "improved smite magic", np.
COOL

what about the first archetype? have you got anything about this? maybe a suggestion for lvl10?

[GalacticAxekick]

ok.
so, i change:
- "sense of magic" with detect magic as a ritual
- "improved sense of magic" with detect magic as an action (limited times per rest)
- in the "smite magic" change the DC with that of the game's rules but that has as a result to throw away the "improved smite magic", np.
COOL

what about the first archetype? have you got anything about this? maybe a suggestion for lvl10?

In a few hours I'll be free to look it over in more detail and suggest archetype traits if you keep this its own class, but again, I'd recommend you make this a fighter archetype, meaning it gets no archetypes of its own.

EDIT: Archetype 1
Blood Bond Weapon

• Uncalled for, thematically. What does a blood-bond have to do with anti-magic? Maybe it's part of how anti-magic works in your setting, specifically, but as much as possible I think a class should be able to stand alone. I'd probably just make this Bonded Weapon or something.
• Themes aside, this feature is free damage against spellcasters. It doesn't change how the Mage Hunter plays at all: it's a straight buff. I don't think this is overpowered, but I think it would be more interesting if it gave a new power instead of increased power.
• This feature, like many of your others, is entirely situational. It has no value against non-magical threats, and it has immense power against magical threats. Trivializing encounters against spellcasters and giving the class no tools for other encounters might not be the most fun design choice.

Aura of Warding[LIST][*]Thematically consistent with the class! But not consistent with the archetype. What does an aura of warding have to do with a (blood-) bonded weapon?[*]Like Blood Bonded Weapon is free damage, this is free defense. The player is offered few interesting choices: they simply become better at things they were already doing, like trading hits. Not the most fun, in my opinion.[*]Like Blood Bonded Weapon, this is entirely situational, with great effect against magical threats and no effect against non-magical threats.

Overall

• I think this archetype lacks thematic direction, reliable features and fun decisions. Let's try to solve each, one at a time.
• Direction. Since Archetype 2 is based on countering and manipulating spells (which is clearly a magical ability itself), this archetype could be about preventing spells from being cast entirely (using only non-magical means).
• Reliability. None of this archetype's features will target magic specifically: they will be useful even in non-magical combat too, though maybe not as much.
• Fun decisions. None of this archetype's features will give a static buff. As much as possible, we want options.

So what do we get?

Archetype 1: The Meddler

Smite Mind
When you take this archetype at 3rd level, you perfect techniques to test the focus of your foes: spellcasters, warriors and monsters alike. When you successfully hit any creature with a melee weapon attack, you may expend one use of your Smite Magic. Until the end of their next turn, when the target tries to use their action or reaction, the target must make a con saving throw. The DC equals to 8 + your proficiency + your Charisma modifier. On a failed save, the target does nothing and loses their action or reaction.

Moving Target
Starting at 7th level, whenever you or a creature you can see is subjected to an effect that allows one to make a dex saving throw to take reduced damage, you may use your reaction to move up to half your speed. (Effectively, you can escape an AoE, seek cover, or move closer to someone you seek to protect with your Aura of Protection)

Restless
Starting at 10th level, you've learned to exploit a grave weakness of all spellcasters: rest.

Firstly, you can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

In addition, you may ignore the effects of exhaustion, and you may choose to succeed a saving throw against an effect that would put you to sleep. You may gain these benefits a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier. When you finish a long rest, you regain all uses.

Pseudomagic
Startg at 15th level, you may push yourself beyond your normal limits to contend with magically enhanced foes. As a bonus action, you may gain the benefits of Enhance Ability for one hour, after which you gain one level of exhaustion. You may use this bonus action up to six times in succession to accumulate the six unique effects of Enhance Ability.

[Halfelf ninja]

Hmmm....the class look good, but personaly i think it is to focused. Why not making it a fighter archtype? Give him side abilities like detect magic at will and such, and as a main trick something like the spellsplinter manuver that roy learns from his grandfather in oots. I will try to send more ideas tommorow morning

[Ngagn]

I would go for a fighter or rogue archtype