Pimp my AoO!

[Eldritch_Ent]

Basically, I'm interested in making a battlefield control character- but not of the spellcasty variety, but more of the facepunchey variety.

What I'd like to do is use either a Whip, Spiked Chain, Polearm, or other Reach Weapon to constantly trip, harass, grapple, and disarm my foes.

*But I don't want to do it using my own actions unless really neccesary*- The character is going to be one of those "Silent Anime Coolguy" types who just sits there without taking action, and just suckers people in with his "Perfect Defense". (Like that Benkei fellow!), except he's less a bishy cliche and more a hardened Ex-Army fellow/Drill Seargent... Though the Fluff's not all that important at the moment.

There's a thread in here about spiked chain that gives me a few ideas, but I'm worried about a few things- Namely the number of Attacks of Opportunity in a round, and what I can do with them.

Can someone point me at some feats, items, enchantments, effects, and general class builds? All I have is PHB DMG 3.5, Psionics 3.0, and the Epic Handbook. (the rest are things like Monster Manual and Complete Spellcaster and things unrelated to Martial Classes.)

[Arbitrarity]

ToB FTW!

Anyways, the classical way to threaten is either a spiked chain, or the more feat efficient glaive (/ranseur/reach weapon) and armour spikes (/gauntlets/spiked gauntlets). Combat reflexes is obviously a must, but your lack of PHB2, ToB, and CWar probably will hurt. Robilar's gambit, defensive sweep, Thicket of Blades, Karmic Strike, and so forth are very useful.

[Keld Denar]

Feats you are gonna look for involve:

Hold the Line (CW)
Improved Trip (PHB)
Knockdown (umm....divine part of SRD?)
Combat Reflexes (PHB)
Stand Still (XPH)

and of course

POWER ATTACK (PHB)

Hold the Line gives you AoO when someone moves into your threatened area. Then you get your AoO as they move out of the 10 foot distance into the 5 foot distance. Every time your AoO hits for 10 damage or more (should be every time) you get a free trip from Knockdown. Combat Reflexes makes sure you have enough AoOs to do this a couple times.

Power Attack is a feat that no full BAB class should ever be without.....ever......ever......ever (that includes you too archers)....ever


Items too look for are:
Steadfast Boots (MIC) Proof vs Countertrip + AoO vs charges
+tripping weapon enhancement (MIC??) another +4 can't hurt
Anything that adds to str (Belt +6) hit, damage, and +trip
Anything that can add size (custom stuff, Enlarge P or Expansion x/day) +4 trip per size catagory, but -1 AoO due to dex loss

[martyboy74]

Combat Reflexes is a must.
Spiked Chain is the best weapon, as you don't need short haft to reach all of your area, and it lets you disarm and trip.
Knight (PHBII) 3's Bulwark of Defense is also very useful.
Hold the Line or Stand Still (XPH) are also very useful for those opponents that you can't trip.
Of course, Improved Trip and Improved Disarm are also very useful.
Inhuman Reach (LoM) and Deformity (Tall) (HoH) also net you a 5' increase to base reach, which is double by using a reach weapon.
Size Increases are key for trip builds; anyone more than one size larger than you can't be tripped by you, and it nets an additional 5' of base reach per increase. However, each size increase does give you a -2 to Dex, which is one less AoO per round.

Note: A lot of these are unreachable by you, but, who knows when you'll get a new book?

[Arbitrarity]

Robilar's gambit is PHB2, I can't remember where defensive sweep is from, Karmic Strike is in CWar, Knockdown is in the divine feats part of SRD. Stand still is nice, in the Psionic feats.


Psychic warrior adds mobility and flexibility to a build, particularly with the Expansion power. Deadly tripping. The loss of dexterity hurts for AOO's though.

[Roderick_BR]

Can you get more than one AoO from the same enemy in one round? At least from movement? I want to try Hold the Line with Stand Still, but I don't know if I can.

[Person_Man]

What ECL?

How powerful do you want it to be?

[ravenkith]

1. You'll probably need to pick up the Complete Warrior and Expanded Psionic Handbook at some point if you really want to go to town with this idea.

2. Crystal Keep is an excellent resource. So is The Hypertext D20 SRD, which includes much of the psionic handbook.

3. You'll definitely want to use the spiked chain. Not only does it grant reach, it's a two handed weapon, which lets you abuse the crap out of power attack.

4. Improved trip is almost a must with any battlefield controller, and to be perfectly honest, if you want to be effective at later levels, you'll need to have some way to expand your size.

5. Psychic Warrior is an excellent class with which to build your AOO happy defense monkey.

Not only can you use it to increase your size (and the size of your equipment), but you can also use it to add damage to your weapon, above and beyond any enchantments you might have.

It also comes with all the martial proficiencies, and all the armor proficiencies as well, meaning that you don't have to fighter dip, especially since it comes with fighter/psionic bonus feats.

The only real weakness of the class is it's lack of powerpoints, and limited number of powers. But oh, what powers! Go to D20 srd, and take a gander at some of the psychic warrior powers. Pay particular attention to Psionic Lion's Charge, Expansion, Body Adjustment, and Vampiric Blade, at the lower levels.

6. Complete Warrior has a couple of feats I'd strongly consider picking up, including Karmic Strike, and Shock Trooper. When put together with combat reflexes, a high dex, and psionic lion's charge, you can use this combination to charge into melee with multiple opponents, getting a full attack at the end of the charge, and sacking AC in order to get power attack at a 2 for 1 ratio with a spiked chain. Any surviving (and standing) enemies attacking you will almost automatically hit, at which point you get a set of AOOs...which still get the benefit of your power attack.

After battle, you can heal yourself if necessary...and if you're an Elan, you can even prevent some of the damage in battle.

Not to mention that, with magic transparency, if you take Expanded Knowledge: Metamorphosis, you can qualify for the Warshaper prestige class (complete warrior), which can grant access to immunity to critical hits, + 4 to STR & CON, added reach, and Fast Healing 2, which can, outside of combat, be trned into fasthealing ten with a full round action and a successful concentration check.

The true path to victory lies in making your enemy wish he'd never hit you.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Knockdown is in the divine feats part of SRD. Stand still is nice, in the Psionic feats.

Minor nitpick.

These feats may be Open Game Content, but they are not part of the System Reference Document (just in case the OP have trouble finding them).

Knock-Down [General]
Prerequisites

Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit

Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

In any case (and the main reason I replied), one should note the errata to Knock-Down.

Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave feats. Insert may into “you may make a trip attack as a free action.” After “whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee” insert: with a single attack

Stand Still:

STAND STILL [GENERAL]
You can prevent foes from fleeing or closing.

Prerequisite: Str 13.

Benefit: When a foe’s movement out of a square you threaten grants you an attack of opportunity, you can give up that attack and instead attempt to stop your foe in his tracks. Make your attack of opportunity normally. If you hit your foe, he must succeed on a Reflex save against a DC of 10 + your damage roll (the opponent does not actually take damage), or immediately halt as if he had used up his move actions for the round.

Since you use the Stand Still feat in place of your attack of opportunity, you can do so only a number of times per round equal to the number of times per round you could make an attack of opportunity (normally just one).

Normal: Attacks of opportunity cannot halt your foes in their tracks.

[Arbitrarity]

Point. I think of the d20SRD.org site as the SRD, as it's most easily accessable, and contains a lot of information in an easy to navigate format. But literally, no, it's not.

[Douglas]

These feats may be Open Game Content, but they are not part of the System Reference Document (just in case the OP have trouble finding them).

Actually, they are. The official copy of the SRD is here. Scroll down to Divine Abilities and Feats. It's in there.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Actually, they are. The official copy of the SRD is here. Scroll down to Divine Abilities and Feats. It's in there.

Thank you Douglas, yet again I stand corrected.

[Darrin]

In any case (and the main reason I replied), one should note the errata to Knock-Down.

I've been told that the Knockdown errata only applies to the 3.0 version of Knockdown. The version printed in Deities & Demigods is 3.5, it supercedes the Sword & Fist version, and supposedly has never been erratified. The Sage/Custserv has never clarified if the 3.0 errata applies to the new version. From what I understand, most folks have been assuming that it doesn't.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I've been told that the Knockdown errata only applies to the 3.0 version of Knockdown. The version printed in Deities & Demigods is 3.5, it supercedes the Sword & Fist version, and supposedly has never been erratified. The Sage/Custserv has never clarified if the 3.0 errata applies to the new version. From what I understand, most folks have been assuming that it doesn't.

Deities & Demigods (04/2002) was 3.0.
It is never than Sword and Fist (01/2001) but the errata is not (Errata:Sword and Fist 10/18/2002).

[Draz74]

5. Psychic Warrior is an excellent class with which to build your AOO happy defense monkey.

Not only can you use it to increase your size (and the size of your equipment), but you can also use it to add damage to your weapon, above and beyond any enchantments you might have.

It also comes with all the martial proficiencies, and all the armor proficiencies as well, meaning that you don't have to fighter dip, especially since it comes with fighter/psionic bonus feats.

The only real weakness of the class is it's lack of powerpoints, and limited number of powers. But oh, what powers! Go to D20 srd, and take a gander at some of the psychic warrior powers. Pay particular attention to Psionic Lion's Charge, Expansion, Body Adjustment, and Vampiric Blade, at the lower levels.

Don't forget to check out the 2nd-Level Psychic Warrior Power Prowess, which ... gives you an extra Attack of Opportunity when you need it.

[giblina]

I've been told that the Knockdown errata only applies to the 3.0 version of Knockdown. The version printed in Deities & Demigods is 3.5, it supercedes the Sword & Fist version, and supposedly has never been erratified. The Sage/Custserv has never clarified if the 3.0 errata applies to the new version. From what I understand, most folks have been assuming that it doesn't.

To quote Zuul from Ghostbusters... "Are... you... a... god?"

From SRD divine feats section:

Feats

Deities can obtain the feats described here, in addition to any standard feats.

Knockdown is a feat for gods. I couldn't see most DMs allowing a PC to have it (it's nice and overpowered).

[Person_Man]

Here's the simple, post-errata explanation.

Normal:

Attack your enemy and deal damage, or attempt to Trip your enemy.


With Improved Trip:

Try to Trip your enemy. If you succeed, you then get one free follow up attack.


With Knock-Down:

Attack your enemy and deal damage. If you deal 10+ points of damage, you get a free Trip attempt (but no free follow up).


Knock-Down and the other feats in the Divine section are not a God only feats. They are normal feats that were originally published in the Deities and Demigods book. Futhermore, most of them have even been re-published 2-3 other times in other supplements as normal feats. And all of them are quite common in builds that you see on the boards and on the WotC website. So clearly, a PC can take them.

Also, I consider Spiked Chain a waste of a feat. In the vast majority of situations, you can just take a 5 ft step in order to use any other reach weapon. And Knock-Down removes the need to use a Trip weapon, so you can use a lance two handed from horseback (my preference) or anything else.

[giblina]

Also, I consider Spiked Chain a waste of a feat. In the vast majority of situations, you can just take a 5 ft step in order to use any other reach weapon.

In builds with high str, high BAB, power attack, and (great) cleave, being able to hit adjacent enemies means 8 more threatened squares to cleave into.

Unlike combat reflexes (which allows only one ATOO against a single opponent per round), cleave has no such restriction (it's just per cleave).

In the right circumstances, you can keep cleaving into an adjacent foe (this works particularly well when you have one "boss" type NPC accompanied by some lousy henchmen.)

In a group situation, 8 more threatened squares also provides the rogue a lot more flanking opportunities.

By no means do I think a spiked chain is the best weapon overall, but I think if you're going to spend the feats to invest in a reach-based build, spending the feat to learn spiked chain is well worth the cost.

[ravenkith]

Spiked chain is useful if you can increase your reach in addition to the length of reach spiked chain provides....

See Expansion.

Also, See: Warshaper.

Also, See: Metamorphosis - Girallon. (Now you can wield two spiked chains while still power attacking! YAY! Now you too, can abuse the TWF tree!)

Note: I cannot recall if there have been any definitive answers on this subject, but I believe Weapon Reach adds to Creature reach, so that a large base form creature, using the expansion power, could take you up to gargantuan size, giving you a 20 ft natural reach, in addition to the 10 feet granted by the weapon. Now add on to that the five feet from warshaper, and you are talking about 35 square feet of hairy, angry death.

Correction: I think you can't stack size...so you may end up with just 30 square feet of large, angry death.

Even so, that's still a whole mess of death.

[Arbitrarity]

Spiked chain is useful if you can increase your reach in addition to the length of reach spiked chain provides....

See Expansion.

Also, See: Warshaper.

Also, See: Metamorphosis - Girallon. (Now you can wield two spiked chains while still power attacking! YAY! Now you too, can abuse the TWF tree!)

Note: I cannot recall if there have been any definitive answers on this subject, but I believe Weapon Reach adds to Creature reach, so that a large base form creature, using the expansion power, could take you up to gargantuan size, giving you a 20 ft natural reach, in addition to the 10 feet granted by the weapon. Now add on to that the five feet from warshaper, and you are talking about 35 square feet of hairy, angry death.

Correction: I think you can't stack size...so you may end up with just 30 square feet of large, angry death.

Even so, that's still a whole mess of death.

Weapon reach property doubles reach, so that's 20*2+5, or 45 feet of hairy death. Girallon or Thri-Kreen or somesuch might do better with 4 hands on the chain. 2.5X str to damage, 4X power attack ratio

[Douglas]

To quote Zuul from Ghostbusters... "Are... you... a... god?"

Each and every one of those feats has been printed somewhere else as a feat intended for normal PCs.

[Kurobara]

If you can get access to Tome of Battle, either a dip in Crusader or Martial Study (some random Devoted Spirit maneuver of your choice) and Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades) is a good idea - no avoiding AoOs with a 5-foot step for you, enemies!

[Fax Celestis]

Knockdown is a feat for gods. I couldn't see most DMs allowing a PC to have it (it's nice and overpowered).

Since the feat does not have a divine rank requirement, all that need be met by a player are the prerequisites.

[Darrin]

With Knock-Down:
Attack your enemy and deal damage. If you deal 10+ points of damage, you get a free Trip attempt (but no free follow up).

While looking up the White Raven Tactics ruling, I noticed this from Sage Advice (7/26/2007):

Q: Dear Sage
If I use Mighty Throw (Tome of Battle p73) or another maneuver that allows me to trip a foe, does the Improved Trip feat grant me an extra attack against that opponent?
--Gerald

A: Yes. The Improved Trip feat applies any time you trip a foe in melee combat, even if that trip comes from a special power.

Sounds to me like Knock-Down gets a free follow-up attack in 3.5.

[Person_Man]

While looking up the White Raven Tactics ruling, I noticed this from Sage Advice (7/26/2007):

Sounds to me like Knock-Back gets a free follow-up attack in 3.5.

Well, my understanding of Knock-Down is based on my reading of the Improved Trip feat. Improved Trip reads:

You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent.

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.

Knock-Down gives you a free Trip attempt after your normal melee attack. Therefore, you never "used your attack for the trip attempt" and Improved Trip seems not to apply.

Also, the official Sword and Fist FAQ (3.0, but its where Knock-Down originally appeared before being reprinted in the SRD) states unambiguously:

Does the fighter with the Knockdown feat get a free attack from Improved Trip against a creature that he trips due to a knockdown?

No.

Perhaps WotC has changed their collective schizophrenic mind since then. Perhaps I'm wrong and Knock-Down is actually twice as powerful as it appears. But I'd like to see something more official then a random Sage answer, such as an updated FAQ or an errata to Improved Trip.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

While looking up the White Raven Tactics ruling, I noticed this from Sage Advice (7/26/2007):



Sounds to me like Knock-Down gets a free follow-up attack in 3.5.

Which has absolutely no bearing on Knock-Down.

The S&F Errata is the newest source.

[Deepblue706]

Would anyone approve of Sidestep Charge (Psionic section of SRD, General Feats)?

Reqs: DEX 13, Dodge

+4 AC vs Charge attacks, missed charges provoke AoO.