Relationship Woes And Advice, Part Two (Read First Post)

[Syka]

Actually, that's very true. We're reading Medea right now in my Greek class and one of the discussions that has come up time and again is how little people have changed. The relationships that you can see between the characters and they're reactions are so similar.

I find it slightly ironic we're reading about a woman who was betrayed by the man she loved. Especially given what has occured twice within the last year to me.

But it's a really good play. If you go back and read stuff, there are so many parallels to be drawn. Euripides seems to be particularly good at characterizing both women and men how they really are. </dorkiness>

Cheers,
Syka

[averagejoe]

Ok, I'll change it then.

The world is, always has been, and always will be inredibally flawed, and lame.

'Snot so bad, once you get the hang of it.

Anyways, flaws just make things more interesting.

[InaVegt]

'Snot so bad, once you get the hang of it.

Anyways, flaws just make things more interesting.

I would love to meet the kind of humanity you know, as the humanity I know can't be more good than vile evil.

[ForzaFiori]

Even then, if you have a true intimate relationship with someone, even if you were friends before, I think you cannot go back to it and forget as if nothing had happened. At least I can't. It would mean that what happened between you doesn't matter. And it would require a complete brain/heart formatting on my part.

we must be wired differently or something, b/c while no duh u cant act like nothing happened, me and my ex have actually just b/c closer friends. It hasn't really changed how we act around each other or anything. Although that may be due to the fact that when we were dating, we really didn't act much different than b4, except a little more physical.

[PhoeKun]

Actually, that's very true. We're reading Medea right now in my Greek class and one of the discussions that has come up time and again is how little people have changed. The relationships that you can see between the characters and they're reactions are so similar.

I find it slightly ironic we're reading about a woman who was betrayed by the man she loved. Especially given what has occured twice within the last year to me.

But it's a really good play. If you go back and read stuff, there are so many parallels to be drawn. Euripides seems to be particularly good at characterizing both women and men how they really are. </dorkiness>

Cheers,
Syka

Ooh, Medea! Very good play. It might actually be fortunately timed for you, as well. It provides an interesting perspective on the feelings inherent to betrayal, don't you agree?

On the topic of women being mistreated by her lover, have you perchance read the Oresteia? As much as there is to be learned from Medea, I think there's even more to gain from comparing her to Clytemnestra...

[Syka]

No, I haven't but we discussed it in class. Doesn't she kill Agamemnon and her kids or some such? I know Medea kills her children.

As our teacher said, he comes home and says, "Hey, take care of my mistress."

And she goes, "Oh heck no." *stabbity death*

Cheers,
Syka

[averagejoe]

I would love to meet the kind of humanity you know, as the humanity I know can't be more good than vile evil.

I sincerely doubt that, but, then, it is in how you look at things. Just look at us, here, supporting each other, and helping each other get through the problems in our lives, if only as a sympathetic audience.

[PhoeKun]

No, I haven't but we discussed it in class. Doesn't she kill Agamemnon and her kids or some such? I know Medea kills her children.

As our teacher said, he comes home and says, "Hey, take care of my mistress."

And she goes, "Oh heck no." *stabbity death*

Cheers,
Syka

... I want to sit in on that class.

And that's more or less how it goes. Clytemnestra had actually been plotting the death of Agamemnon since he left for Troy, after the whole "killing his daughter to make the wind blow" fiasco. Didn't help that he came home flaunting slave women, but she already had another lover, who pinned him in a bathrobe while she took a double bladed axe to to him. In comes Orestes, who kills his mother for killing his father, and then is chased to Athens by the Erinyes. Apollo does some fancy lawyerin' at the first ever court in Athens, and Athena lets the poor boy go, changing the Erinyes into the Eumenides so they can act as the ever looming threat to those who break the law in the shining land of perfectness that is Athens.

...You can read 'Wasps' to find out how well that turns out, but I'm drifting off into another topic. It's the details of 'Agamemnon' in the Oresteia that are really what I'm driving at. There's a whole lot of anger going on, but so often, it winds up being so much better had you never acted on it...

[SDF]

Mudbunny, at least until Friday I've got him as seeing me as offline on AIM and Yahoo, so unless he contacts me through Myspace or tries calling me I should be good. I'm still holding out for a few days before deleting his profile from Myspace, although it may come to that. It depends on how I handle it. With my ex, it was too tempting having access to his facebook. I might be able to handle this.

Admittedly, it's really weird not having him on my top friends, but at this point in time I don't want to see him unless I choose to look. I've only had Myspace since Nov and he's been sitting at number 2 the entire time (I've been 3 on his so, once he gets a top friends again, I'm curious to see if I've been completely dropped off there). *sigh*

Oh well, time to reevaluate, figure out the warning signs that come with this breed of Jerk, and avoid the subspecies in the future.

Cheers,
Syka

I'm sorry things didn't go like you wanted. :(

The MySpace "Top Friends" thing always made me laugh. "Rate your friends in a hierarchical fashion, let people know who you like best!" And I can track my friends status with girls they meet. :P

Uh, she's on his top 8. Oh, there she goes to number one. He's changed his status from single to in a relationship. And, she completely disappeared...

It's cyclical

[Syka]

I really love the class. He was talking about the institutionalized homosexuality and essentially rape in the upper classes, and said the lower classes said, "Um, yah. We don't want our kids raped." Ah, Greek drama and culture. I'll have to find the Orestia. So far I'm really enjoying this. :) I'll be taking Plato next term.

Heh. I only do the Top 4. Basically it's my best guy friend, my best girl friend, a really good guy friend from back home and a friends daughter (she made her 3 year old a Myspace...It's adorable!) now. The guy I was dating had been on there. I'm lucky enough to have friends that could care less about the whole Top Friends deal. The guy I had been dating actually took all co-workers off his top friends because he moved some around and two people got really pissed at him for not being on there. *shakes head*

I honestly, don't really pay attention to Top Friends often. I was actually shocked to see how many peoples Top lists I made it on to.

But yes, Boy sucks at the moment. *grumbles and goes back to studying*

Cheers,
Syka

[Logic]

For everyone that gets mad about not being on my top whatever, I remove them from my friends list entirely. I don't need that drama, especially over somethnig so trivial

That being said, my brother is my first friend on my top whatever. I've only known him his whole life.

Back on topic: Sorry to hear about it Syka. I don't think I can actually offer any advice beyond try to salvage the friendship after you have both cooled your jets. He needs to get over being angry right now, and you need to wait till you are done hurting.

[SDF]

I don't have a visible top friends list, I think they are silly, especially when people complain that they aren't on it.

And I found a picture that accurately describes how I feel!

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[Vampiric]

^ oh hell yes! hehe.

Oh, and I'm available for pm, syka (for the thread), or anyone else here.

[ForzaFiori]

i happen to have 24 great friends that are on my myspace, so i just put them up there in the order that they added me.
except for the top line, who is the chick i like, and 3 ppl in my band.

[Pyrian]

Even then, if you have a true intimate relationship with someone, even if you were friends before, I think you cannot go back to it and forget as if nothing had happened. At least I can't. It would mean that what happened between you doesn't matter. And it would require a complete brain/heart formatting on my part.

Nothing is ever as if nothing had happened. But that doesn't make it unsalvageable - just harder.

I think of a love relationship as something more than a friendship with that person.

No offense, but... Duh.

Besides, can you not be friends with your gf/bf?

Oh, heck yeah. I mean, I wouldn't go there, but I can definitely see the appeal.

All said, I don't know if *I* believe in friendship between men and women.

Remind me to tell all my women friends that you don't believe in them. I think they'll find that amusing. Or did you just phrase that badly, and were only talking about your own relationships? Because, yeah, I know some guys who are never friends with women except in that they want in their pants, which is basically what it sounds like you're talking about, here.

I may sound awful, but to some extent, and to be honest with myself, I can tell that there's some level of attraction with the women I relate to. Attraction at different levels, after all you are friends with people you like, aren't you?

That's no standard at all. That would include all my friends, male, female, pets, abtract art, gravity, whatever. I have female friends to whom I have no sexual attraction. And, for that matter, I have female friends to whom I'm very sexually attracted. And you know what? They're good, true, valued, cherished friends, and that has little or nothing to do with sex.

[Syka]

It's the When Harry Met Sally logic. Women and men can be friends, but one or both are going to be sexually attracted to the other. I used to think that I had a group of friends with whom I was just one of the guys, nothing sexual. I'm beginning to think differently.

Whether admitted or not, most likely atleast one party is interested in the other. Now, whether that party will act on it is another story.

Cheers,
syka

[Breaon]

Ok, I'll change it then.

The world is, always has been, and always will be inredibally flawed, and lame.

The world is what you make of it. If you want lemonade, then make lemonade.

[Indon]

Hmm, relationship woes, eh? Does not-getting-into-one count? In any case...

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

I'm having a bit of trouble with this part, as 'being myself' does not appear to involve getting into situations in which I would meet women socially. Largely, my time is consumed by my work, the internet, and my gaming. My RL friends, though numerous, are either male, married, or both (and my preference extends to none of them).

So, I ask, how does a guy get out there and find a girl? Before you say, "Go clubbing", I give you the complications:

-I don't drink; teetotaler.
-I'm honestly not that big a fan of very loud noises, either, which eliminates most clubs and many bars.
-I'm _really_ shy.
-I'm a huge gamer (and, really, all-around nerd) and would like to meet a similarly inclined female.

I wish you luck.

[Syka]

I like clubbing (don't drink, love dancing), but I really don't think I'd want to pick a guy up there. It's fun with friends, but not where I'd exactly want to go on a date.

Do you have a local gaming store that holds game nights, etc?

Because I'm in school, I'm not really sure what else. Others who are older than I should be able to help more.

What I mean by that though is don't make yourself someone else just for another person. If they want a preppy guy who does x, y, and z, and it doesn't include gaming, don't trash your books and get a new wardrobe. That's what that advice stems from.

Cheers,
Syka

[Khantalas]

Ah, see, I have the perfect girl for you, but I took her first. Sorry about that.

Your best bet is, well, here. You get to know people by posting around, then you enjoy responding to someone and find her responds to you interesting, you PM her, see if she'd like to be friends, get her e-mail and stuff. You chat with her outside the forums, get to know each other better, then who knows, there might be a mutual increase in the level of interest and bam, we've got ourself a new couple.

Seriously, GitP is the best place to go clubbing for our kind of people. Not that I'd know, of course. I've never been to any kind of clubbing.

[ForzaFiori]

It's the When Harry Met Sally logic. Women and men can be friends, but one or both are going to be sexually attracted to the other. I used to think that I had a group of friends with whom I was just one of the guys, nothing sexual. I'm beginning to think differently.

Whether admitted or not, most likely atleast one party is interested in the other. Now, whether that party will act on it is another story.

Cheers,
syka

i can actually think of 1 occasion when i highly doubt that to be true.
one of my best friends gf and i are fairly good friends, and even before they went out, i doubt either of us thought of the other in that sense. i didn't like her that way b/c i'm...well, i'm a shallow bastard, and i dont thinks she's hot. I doubt she likes me as she has got it in her head that i'm a smart ass and slightly annoying due to it. (way to true probably.).

[Alarra]

1) There are other options for seduction songs than Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters". It's a great song. I like it. Nevertheless, a song associated with the memories of every other guy that's tried it on your woman is not setting the mood you desire.

Am I odd in that I've never even thought of this song in the context of a seduction song, nor had it tried on me?

And also, Syka....
One important thing to remember, at least that I've always found, is that when a relationship first ends, things are strained and hard, and people can be jerks and say things that they don't mean.....but given a bit more time, can fall back into a friendship. I know that when Chris and I first broke up, we actually managed to remain friends, but then we went through a period of fighting and hating each other and I know that I had the intention of never speaking to him again. And now we're good friends again. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time, and if you like them as a person, can be worth it.

And it's perfectly possible to remain friends with an ex. I'm pretty good friends with a fair number of my exes.

And also have guy friends to which there is no sexual interest on either side. I mean, yeah...it's rare, but it can happen.

And myspace in general is a ridiculous popularity contest and I find the idea of rating ones 'top friends' silly. That being said, I can't help but pay attention to where I am on other people's lists and organize mine according to how good of friends I am with any person at a given time.

[SDF]

When it comes to changing who you are... well there are things you like, hobbies, clothes, music, ect. And throughout your life those things change constantly. Changing something you like doesn't change who you are. Then you have your beliefs, which usually change little throughout your life, but some of them often do change, and while that change can be a bit more personal it isn't down to your core. Change enough of them and you can seem like a different person though. Finally, you have your values. Unless you have a complete paradigm shift or some kind of brain trauma it is almost impossible to change a value, though it does happen. Or, that's how I see it.

Stay what you are.

Ah, see, I have the perfect girl for you, but I took her first. Sorry about that.

Your best bet is, well, here. You get to know people by posting around, then you enjoy responding to someone and find her responds to you interesting, you PM her, see if she'd like to be friends, get her e-mail and stuff. You chat with her outside the forums, get to know each other better, then who knows, there might be a mutual increase in the level of interest and bam, we've got ourself a new couple.

Seriously, GitP is the best place to go clubbing for our kind of people. Not that I'd know, of course. I've never been to any kind of clubbing.

Not too sure about that. There are a lot of cool cats here, (and various other animals) but "our kind" of people seems to vary a lot. I find myself liking completely different things, and believing something different than a lot of forumites. The forum touches on some hobbies I like and have, but I like a plethora of other things too. At least for me, an online relationship would be hard(read: not impossible or out of the question) do to the lack of physical contact which, while I can do without, is important to me.

Never done a lot of clubbing, can't go to most until I'm 21... But I do go to a lot of the "rock" shows.

[Khantalas]

Not too sure about that. There are a lot of cool cats here, (and various other animals) but "our kind" of people seems to vary a lot.

Our kind is defined as "doesn't drink, not a fan of loud noises, really shy and gamer", of course. After that, it is subject to certain variations.

[SDF]

Our kind is defined as "doesn't drink, not a fan of loud noises, really shy and gamer", of course. After that, it is subject to certain variations.

Well I guess I'm not our kind then,(ONE OF US, ONE OF US) I love loud noises and the children's rock music. I've been better about the shy bit too.

[Hell Puppi]

I'm not a huge fan of clubbing, but when one of your friends is a fairly popular DJ, you get drug a lot of places. I enjoy the dancing a whole bunch, but most of the other things I could live without.
Being who you are varies. I like the advice because changing everything about yourself to suit someone is generally retarded. I can't really think of a better descriptive term. In a relationship it's expected that you're going to have to change a bit to suit each other, but changing your entire self, unless your entire self is a jack-ass, is over-doing it.
Like me. I got into a relationship with a fairly controlling person. I'm rather reserved, somewhat quiet. He hated that. He also disliked girls with short hair and tattoos. He was also the person who suggested dating in the first place. It made absolutely no sense, and i'm not going to change my basic personality to suit someone when they don't seem to like the real me in the first place.
I guess my basic advice is to find things things that are you, your ideals and your likes and dislikes. If someone wants to change what's truly important to you, they're probably not worth your time.

[Pyrian]

Hmm, relationship woes, eh? Does not-getting-into-one count? In any case...

That has been more the rule than the exception.

So, I ask, how does a guy get out there and find a girl?

In general, go to places where large numbers of people congregate who share your interests. Right here has worked for some people. Also, there are conventions, though even that might be too social for you if you're very shy. Then, surprisingly, MMO's have worked for more than a few people. The reality is that the numbers game is not in your favor - there are more men that fit your general description (which frankly sounds a lot like Asperger's Syndrome) than women. So, you're going to have to meet even more people than you might otherwise.

I wish you luck.

...And you, sir.

[Hell Puppi]

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Yeah. I've got something that SHOULD be an easy fix, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
I've posted before on the other incarnation of this thread about someone who's wronged me personally, taken advantage of my kindness, and basically someone who I can't stand to have within my sight.
Here's the problem: my friend's, Zach and Bea, are having their wedding in September, and this person is invited and unless something drastic is to happen, will defiantly be there. This wedding will be full of friends that I haven't seen in months (and a few I haven't seen in almost a year), so bowing out isn't an option ( and basically I've been told that I'm being dragged along no matter what- I've thought about missing it for the sake of a peaceful wedding).
I'm thinking of just ignoring this person and avoiding their, and their presence. I would simply pretend to be kind for the sake of my friends, but more than I are bound to have problems with this person (half the wedding party is disgusted with her as well), and I every time I have offered my hand in an attempt at reconciliation, I've come back missing a few fingers.
Sooo...ignoring? Avoiding alcohol in order to circumvent a mess? (the wedding's in reno, too...we want to stop by vegas and maybe go to the star trek bar..-_-;;) Anyone else have a better idea?

[FdL]

There will be attraction, however dim. I'm attracted to all my girls, but I also know that given the option, I wouldn't date them.

Hmm...It depends on who we're talking about. It's not like I'd have a go why just anyone. Or that I only make friends with cute girls, it's not like that.

It doesn't hurt to see women as women at all. Hell, I think I'm only so close to my girls because they're women.

Well I don't think that's a bad thing.

But don't think that just because they're women you're meant to jump all over them at every option. Women are people too. And certainly better people than men are.

Hmmm, those are contradictory. Women are people. Which to me means that they can be good or bad and everything in between.

I make friends with women much more easily than with men, and it doesn't have to be women I find attractive (although that's one of many things that helps slightly).

I don't relate only to women I find attractive. And now that you mention it, I always related better to women than to men, apart from the attraction (or is it????)


The moral of these two posts is that women are different (ie, they're women), but not so different as to not be people.

I dunno, I'm really not sure if he's "moved on" like he said last night, but I think the sting of me finding out hasn't gone away. But I think I was a lot more hurt by the accusations he leveled at me last night then what caused the disagreements in the first place. His reactions also make me feel like I only have the tip of the iceberg and that there is other stuff I don't know...and don't want to know.

Well, it probably feels awful, but it's better to know these things before you went too deep with him. After all dating is to tentatively know how the other person is, so you can choose to form a couple or not.

And this makes me terribly sad. Maybe, if given time, he can prove that he will act mature, I can let him back in, but not at the moment.

I sometimes sound like the bringer of black clouds, but I think it's better not to think about tomorrow in these situations. You just got to live with the "no". Today. And tomorrow will come. But don't be hung on tomorrow because it will hurt the now. And this I know very well because I've been there. And it sucks. Hope is a bad thing sometimes, when it works against you.

So take your time, Syka and let it heal. One day you'll realize you've learned things with this experience, and it will help you to better know what you want and what you don't want.

[Syka]

Yah.

It also helps I've got a girl friend whose actually going through something very similar (kind of a hybrid of my two breakups in that this one just happened, but she was with the guy for two years when he cheated, like I was with my first ex). So I think this weekend might end up being a girls thing. :) I won't bash much, since she is good friends with one of his old friends (I'm fairly certain contact between him and his friend isn't incredibly consistent and such). But I don't want to risk it.

But she will hear the bear minimum and there will be general "boys suck" talk.

Sorry boys, but this is what girls do after break ups. I'm sure you guys have similar things.

Cheers,
Syka