Best System for Demigod-Level Characters?

[Toilet Cobra]

I just finished reading Sandman again after many years and I have a hankering to run a short campaign set in the modern day, where the players are all lesser divine powers working to avert some crazy cosmological disaster.

The relative power level I'm looking for is about two steps below the well-known gods, who would still be sort of relevant and quite powerful. The PCs would be lesser gods (or perhaps Demigods whose parents are Major Deities), noteworthy land spirits, powerful ghosts, that sort of thing. Diverse beings which have serious powers but aren't at all unstoppable. The sort of guys who serve as minibosses for Kratos.

Examples that have come to mind: Atropos. The North Wind. Eleos. Váli. Merlin. The spirit of the Thames. Ganyede. St. Ignatius Loyola. That sort of thing.

So now that I've laid that all out, here's the actual question: based on your experience, what would be the best system to run a game like this? Sadly my personal experience is limited almost entirely to 3.5/PF, and while I know I could do a decent Mythic PF game that's not at all the flavor I want from the system (plus I want a modern setting). I know there are some good 'generic' sort of systems out there that can probably stat out such a diverse cast, but I don't know which ones are good or bad, especially considering the upper power-level I'm looking at. I have done a tiny bit of Mutants & Masterminds, but I don't want people to be locked down with totally discrete powers; I'm thinking vague is a bit better than specific in this case. And if I can be picky, simple systems are better in this case just because I'd be teaching it to a whole group of other newbies.

I'm all for learning new systems but I need help knowing where to begin. Any guidance is very much appreciated!

[solidork]

Exalted maybe? I haven't played it myself, but from what I've heard it fits a couple of criteria: characters that are powerful on a demigod type scale and the ability to execute some extremely strange character concepts in a way that is still satisfying. You'd have to completely change the setting though.

Unfortunately, the one person I know personally who has played Exalted 3e hated the combat mechanics. Their group is planning on continuing that storyline in Scion 3rd Edition when it comes out.

[thirdkingdom]

Godbound. Oh look, the basic game is available for free!

[Fri]

Not Exalted, strangely. You are powerful there, but too limited for the kind of game you're thinking. The powers are too specific, and the system too mechanical, but you do punch the sun or whatever.

Maybe yeah, Godbound? Also, Scion might work?

I hate to suggest Fate for everything, but Fate could work, just give each characters a custom skill called "Sphere" that contain their godly power but limit it to only making advantages, never to attack or defend. (for example, Sphere of Creation, Sphere of Fire, Sphere of Justice) and if they want to do something weird, they could roll that skill to power up someone through Justice, or create water, or any weird miraculous things they could think. The rest of the skills are the same, just adjust the power level as needed (so jumping over a building could be a simple difficulty 1 athletic task).

[gkathellar]

Nobilis is very Sandman-esque, as is Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-granting Engine. Legends of the Wulin could be used as well, if you're willing to refluff the martial arts as divine powers.

FATE and Wushu are of course good for everything.

Godbound is an OSR game, and is mediocre at best (it uses the equivalent of THAC0 for some reason), although it has some cool ideas. Exalted is extraordinarily crunchy (and *weird* in its crunchiness - this is a game that stats out syphilis), and very setting-specific (frankly, the setting is the highlight, and the mechanics are trash). Scion 1e is less setting-specific, but mechanically even worse. I hear 2e is better, but its price point and the number of books required for play is legitimately insulting.

[ImNotTrevor]

FATE and Wushu are of course good for everything.

FATE is definitely not good for everything.

If you want to play this so that it feels like a pulpy action movie such as:
Flash Gordon
Indiana Jones
The Last Action Hero
Guardians of the Galaxy
Etc...

Then FATE is easy enough to hack into doing whatever, but I suggest building from FATE Accelerated since it's quite a bit purer and focuses more intently on the mechanic FATE has that is the most flexible, powerful, and important: Aspects.

Normal fate has a little bit of bloat.

You may also run into a situation where most important rolls really come down to figuring out if you need to spend a Fate point. So a diceless hack that really capitalizes upon and expands the Fate Point economy might have the makings of greatness therein.

[GrayDeath]

Scion can work ... if the GM has a lot of experience with it.
Its Basics are good for Over The Top Stuff, but Details vary between nice and really wonky.

Exalted. ... no. Too specific, needs a total rewrite to work with that.

Maybe M&M? If it works with Superpower it works with medium Demigods, no?

[legomaster00156]

Frankly, you might be better off with a very generic system. In the RPG system Magical Fury, designed for magical girls but easily adapted to this kind of game, you play a powerful character with nebulous powers built around a "theme". There are no stats, simply 2d6 and your imagination.

[Berenger]

Scion can work ... if the GM has a lot of experience with it.
Its Basics are good for Over The Top Stuff, but Details vary between nice and really wonky.

Scion works great for this. Caveat: If you are used to D&D (where, in the end, most mechanics of class abilities revolve around combat and at least aim to be balanced for this purpose) you might get the feeling that the system is horribly unbalanced. White Wolf doesn't treat rules mechanics as tools for world and combat simulation but as rules for collaborative storytelling, which is a very different style and design goal. As GrayDeath mentioned, it's necessary that the GM a) has a clear understanding of the rules (including advanced combat rules as these may be necessary to even wound tougher enemies) and b) is comfortable with making rulings on the fly. It also helps if the group discusses the desired level of character optimization before making characters since min-maxing is pretty easy. The basic premise of the game is akin to the Percy Jackson franchise (the players portray half mortal offspring of greek / egypt / norse etc. gods), just that most Scions characters are adults and not children or teens. There are three main books, Hero, Demigod and God which correspond to the desired power level.

[Max_Killjoy]

You could go with from-scratch world and specifics building and use HERO.

[Calthropstu]

You can hijack shadowrun and give players some ridiculous abilities such as summoning the spirit of the earth, f50 elementals, and other demigod apropriate powers.

[Milo v3]

I'd say nobilis.

[Mutazoia]

Palladium's Rifts system actually has an entire book dedicated to playing Demi-Gods.

[Airk]

Scion and Rifts? Why do we hate this person so much that we are recommending demonstrably nonfunctional games? :P

Godbound is definitely an obvious choice. Nobilis to me goes a little above "demigod" but that might be in line with the original ask, since when I think "Demigod" I think "Hercules" not "Sandman".

Godbound is probably way more familiar to someone who has only ever played Paththinger, but that might actually make Nobilis a better choice for like, learning about different kinds of good games.

So get free Godbound and buy Nobilis. :P

[Berenger]

Scion and Rifts? Why do we hate this person so much that we are recommending demonstrably nonfunctional games? :P

His username gave me nightmares and slight constipation.

But seriously, Scion is a functional system unless you go ahead and break it on purpose, which is (admittedly) easier than it should be.

[GrayDeath]

His username gave me nightmares and slight constipation.

But seriously, Scion is a functional system unless you go ahead and break it on purpose, which is (admittedly) easier than it should be.

Agreed.

If you play Scion with the Fluff in mind, and have a GM with a feww basic houserules, its good.
Not flawless, mind, or even very good, but a good game.

[Toilet Cobra]

His username gave me nightmares and slight constipation.

I'll have that effect on people.

Thank you all for the many helpful suggestions! Right now it looks like it's between Godbound and Scion. I have a good group who is not prone to breaking things just because they can be broken, so even something abusable could be a viable option for us. And we've played with more bizarrely constructed games than Godbound, believe it or not (thanks 90's gaming) so that shouldn't be an issue for us to wrap our heads around.

[thirdkingdom]

I'll have that effect on people.

Thank you all for the many helpful suggestions! Right now it looks like it's between Godbound and Scion. I have a good group who is not prone to breaking things just because they can be broken, so even something abusable could be a viable option for us. And we've played with more bizarrely constructed games than Godbound, believe it or not (thanks 90's gaming) so that shouldn't be an issue for us to wrap our heads around.

Just FYI, while Godbound is an OSR game it is also one of the most critically acclaimed game to have come out in the past few years. To refer to it as "bizarrely constructed" is to grossly misjudge the game. There's an entire thread here where the author is an active participant: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php...und-Staff-Pick

[Airk]

I'll have that effect on people.

Thank you all for the many helpful suggestions! Right now it looks like it's between Godbound and Scion. I have a good group who is not prone to breaking things just because they can be broken, so even something abusable could be a viable option for us. And we've played with more bizarrely constructed games than Godbound, believe it or not (thanks 90's gaming) so that shouldn't be an issue for us to wrap our heads around.

Disclaimer: I haven't played Scion.

However, everything I've ever heard about the game indicates that it basically breaks unless you plaster over it with seventeen layers of houserules. YMMV, of course, but I'd approach it with caution.

[GrayDeath]

I have played it, a lot of the time DMed it.

And I can assure you, it only does if your party consist of either optimizers (especially the D&D Variety) OR neither DM nor players have any experience with (and love for) Story/style driven games.

Thats not to say its even remotely balanced, or particularly stable (to be frank, epic attributes are the moist problematic thing), but most of it is easily fixeable...unless the above applies.

If you are going to try it, there should be legal copies of Scion Hero online iirc, WHite Wolf once gave them away.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd avoid any White Wolf games like the plague, here. While they certainly offer powerful characters, they're also as crunchy and often clunky as anything on the market. Exalted, the one I'm most familiar with, has much more rigidly defined and distinct powers than something like Mutants and Masterminds, with no way to fiddle with them mid-game like M&M's Power Stunts*. Maybe Mage has the sort of flexibility you're looking for, but I doubt it has the lightness.

Just about any rules-light system can have a universal power level set at whatever you feel appropriate for demigods. But if you want something really good, might I suggest my homebrew system, STaRS? Unlike most other games out there, it has those sort of varying power levels built into the core difficulty system**. Also dead-easy to learn, uses a self-defined power system (with prices based on versatility), doesn't require excessive GM fiat, has no narrative elements, and runs at approximately the speed of sound. Though it's possible I'm biased.

*A decently constructed array and a frequent power stunts can give you a pretty flexible M&M character. I usually pass out a pair of "demihero points" at the beginning of a session that can be used for Power stunts, hints, and scene edits, and offer more for doing cool things in-game-- something like that can accomplish your goal pretty nicely. That does require your group to have a good grasp on system mechanics, though, sooo...
**All characters operate at a given "Competence Level," which determines what is and isn't possible with a single check. At Normal Competence, say, you'd be able to pick up a backpack without rolling, a person wearing a backpack with a check, and a car full of backpacks would be impossible. But if you buy the right ability or acquire enough positive modifiers, you can upgrade your Competence Level for, say, Physique checks-- at which point you'd be able to, say, pick up a person wearing a backpack without rolling, a car full of backpacks with a check, and a huge truck full of backpacks would be impossible.