New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 263
  1. - Top - End - #61
    Banned
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Okay, look: Your assertion that Shillelagh, and by extension polearm master, are useless for a frontline druid is asinine. If you are not going moon druid, It is literally the only way for them to get an additional attack, and the simple fact that you can do it with a quarterstaff, one handed, while holding a shield, makes it one of the BETTER options on the list.

    Poison spray is a joke. Save or nothing effects, especially those that target a Con save, are borderline worthless at higher levels and against bigger monsters, not to mention that there are 45 monsters in the book with resistance to poison and 95 with flat immunity to it. By contrast, nothing is immune to getting hit with a magic weapon.

    Thorn whip is fine, but you will literally always be doing less average damage damage than by just hitting them twice with your magic quarter staff. If the range is what you like because it allows you to stay out of harms way, THEN WHY ARE YOU FRONTLINING?
    Spoiler: pole arm master
    Show

    P o l e a r m M a s t e r
    You can keep your enem ies at bay with reach weapons. You gain the following benefits:
    • W hen you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, or quarterstaff, you can use a bonus
    action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. The w eapon’s damage die for this attack
    is a d4, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage.
    • W hile you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quar-
    terstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack
    from you when they enter your reach.

    Spoiler: produce flame
    Show

    P r o d u c e F l a m e
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 10 minutes
    A flickering flame appears in your hand. The flame
    remains there for the duration and harms neither you
    nor your equipment. The flame sheds bright light in a
    10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet.
    The spell ends if you dism iss it as an action or if you
    cast it again.
    You can also attack with the flame, although doing so
    ends the spell. W hen you cast this spell, or as an action
    on a later turn, you can hurl the flame at a creature
    within 30 feet of you. Make a ranged spell attack. On a
    hit, the target takes 1d8 fire damage.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach
    5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).


    Spoiler: thorn whip
    Show

    T h o r n W h i p
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S, M (the stem o f a plant with thorns)
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that
    lashes out at your com m and toward a creature in range.
    Make a m elee spell attack against the target. If the
    attack hits, the creature takes 1d6 piercing damage, and
    if the creature is Large or smaller, you pull the creature
    up to 10 feet closer to you.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d6 w hen you reach
    5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).


    Spoiler: poison spray
    Show

    P o i s o n S p r a y
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 10 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You extend your hand toward a creature you can see
    within range and project a puff of noxious gas from your
    palm. The creature must succeed on a Constitution
    saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d12 when you reach
    5th level (2d12), 11th level (3d12), and 17th level (4d12).


    I disagree. a magic quarterstaff using the bonus second attack from polearm master will deal d6+d4 if both hit. after level 5, produce flame deals 2d8, thorn whip 2d6, & poison spray 2d12. Your bonus action can be better used by adding 2d6 flaming sphere's ram +1d6/spell slot >2. Even if you want to conserve your second level slots, any of the damage cantrips will do more than 2d6+1d4. even if you have a +3 weapon way earlier than that sort of thing gets seen, It's only going to be close till 11 when the damage cantrips go to 3d6/3d8/3d12. So you are suggesting taking polearm master to deal less damage than the cantrips instead of both dealing more damage, doing it with advantage on concentration checks, & using AoOs to cast a spell as a bonus action if you want. I'm not seeing how your suggestion to use pole arm master is useful in any way. While you are indeed correct that there are a lot of things resistant/immune to poison damage and/or with high con saves to save for none, very few of them also have an AC that would make produce flame/thorn whip difficult. Unlike with switching weapons, there is no action cost to cast a different cantrip each turn

    I don't know about you, but most of my characters make it beyond level 5 where cantrips get an extra damage die & a good chunk beyond 11 where they get a third.


    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    The biggest problem that I have with this whole concept is that it is MAD as hell, and isn't really that effective, not when compared to a Moon druid. You argue for doing things like getting heavy armor, but then spec for Dex. It's inefficient, unfocused, and really not worth the time.
    No, it's not MAD. I actually suggest against heavy armor; but explain the pros & cons/routes because showing that it's within 0-1 ac of medium armor with far greater costs. Having ~14 con & 14-16 dex is not hard at all because the standard stat array is "15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8" allowing you to stick the 15 in wis, 14 dex, & the rest wherever before even factoring in racial mods. Unless you are suggesting that druids need charisma & int I'm not seeing how it's MAD at all... let alone "MAD as hell"

    In order for a level of monk to equal halfplate+shield, you would need absolutely insane stats:
    Spoiler: Monk unarmored defense
    Show

    U n a r m o r e d D e f e n s e
    Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor
    and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your
    Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier.

    Basic mundane shield+halfplate with 14 ac is 19 ac. That dex will be 12 and need an extra +7 from wis to match.. unless you can explain how you are getting 24+ wis, or a 20 & 18 between dex & wis before finding even a +1 shield/+1 halfplate/+2 breastplate. The claim that monk UAD is better than medium+shield even more absurd that PAM's second d4 of damage will outdamage cantrips after level5/11/17 when they are doing 2-4(d6/d8/d12). That sort of bad advice is too common & why this guide was created.


    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    There are many, many things I this guide that are completely wrong.

    I am not even talking about armor of metal or wood or anything.

    I'm alll ears
    Last edited by Tetrasodium; 2017-03-23 at 09:07 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    I disagree. a magic quarterstaff using the bonus second attack from polearm master will deal d6+d4 if both hit. after level 5, produce flame deals 2d8, thorn whip 2d6, & poison spray 2d12. Your bonus action can be better used by adding 2d6 flaming sphere's ram +1d6/spell slot >2. Even if you want to conserve your second level slots, any of the damage cantrips will do more than 2d6+1d4. even if you have a +3 weapon way earlier than that sort of thing gets seen, It's only going to be close till 11 when the damage cantrips go to 3d6/3d8/3d12. So you are suggesting taking polearm master to deal less damage than the cantrips instead of both dealing more damage, doing it with advantage on concentration checks, & using AoOs to cast a spell as a bonus action if you want. I'm not seeing how your suggestion to use pole arm master is useful in any way. While you are indeed correct that there are a lot of things resistant/immune to poison damage and/or with high con saves to save for none, very few of them also have an AC that would make produce flame/thorn whip difficult. Unlike with switching weapons, there is no action cost to cast a different cantrip each turn
    Okay, I'm going to ask you three important questions here:

    1. What are you actually trying to design?

    2. Do you know how the shillelagh spell works?

    3. Do you actually understand how weapon attacks work?

    For the first, your whole concept seems to say "front line melee combatant", so I assume you're trying go get the most out of that. If that's not correct, let me know.

    For the second, the answer is obviously no. Shillelagh allows you to use your spellcasting modifier (in this case, wisdom) for the attack and damage rolls instead of strength for the quarterstaff or club you cast it on, the weapon's damage die becomes a d8, and it becomes magical.

    For the third, weapon attacks always add your relevant stat modifier to the damage roll unless explicitly stated otherwise (like in the case of two weapon fighting).

    So, let's take a variant human for a spin here. Let's live in a world where we can get some good old ironwood, and make a set of ironwood half plate; really not out of the question for most standard D&D worlds, and would be at most an uncommon magic item(in fact, I know it's part of Forgotten Realms lore).
    You will be boosting wisdom and constitution to start, and taking Polearm master.

    Out the gate, you have 16 wis, 14 dex, 14 con. Using shillelagh, you're hitting with a +5 to the roll, doing 1d8+3 (avg 7.5) damage on the first round of combat and 1d8+1d4+6 (avg. 13) on each subsequent round, and, with a shield, your AC is 19. You can do this all day long, with no restrictions.

    By comparison, the same druid using thorn whip is using his action to do 1d6 damage (avg 3.5) and pulling the target 10 feet close to himself, 1d8 (avg 4.5), or 1d12 damage (6.5) but only on a con save of 13.

    At level 4, you've boosted wisdom by 2 points, making our staff wielder do an additional 1 damage per attack, totalling 8.5 and 15 on the first and subsequent rounds.

    At 5, the cantrip users get an extra die, doing either 2d6 (avg 7), 2d8 (avg 9) or 2d12 (avg 13). Poison spray beats out the quarterstaffer, but only on the first round.

    At 8, we boost our wisdom again, bumping quarterstaff up to 9.5 and 17 for first and subequent rounds.

    At 11, cantrips get an additional die, moving up to 3d6 (10.5), 3d8 (13.5) and 3d12 (19.5). Respectable damage now, but don't forget that poison spray is poison, so most things at this level are either resistant or immune.

    At 17, cantrips again get a boost, doing 4d6 (14), 4d8 (18), and 4d12 (26). Pretty respectable damage, and as a pure druid you are certainly better served by doing only cantrips at this point.

    Now, I'm sure you're probably feeling super great about your position, but let me remind you that there are a VAST number of ways to make the Quarterstaff the better option here.

    For one, by level 5, you can have Haste. That boosts your AC by another 2 (always good) but more importantly gives you another attack, bumping your damage up by another 9.5 a round or so. That sits you very comfortably above the 17th level poison spray at level 5.

    For another, you can take a level of fighter and get the dueling fighting style, boosting your damage by 2 per attack, which will put you above everything except for 17th level poison spray, again as low as level 6.

    Best of all you can do BOTH, and be doing in the range of 2d8+1d4+21 (or 32.5) per round as of level 8.

    If you want to simply boost your damage dice, at level 12 you can take magic initiate to get Booming Blade. You can use that to deal 1d8+2d8+5 (avg. 18.5) every round, since you can cast both that and shillelagh in the same round, jumping to 1d8+3d8+5 (avg. 23) per round at level 17th level; none of that is counting the potential bonus off-turn damage from booming blade.

    If you want a little more, do the booming blade trick, and then also take war caster at level 16, giving you an off-turn 18.5 damage attack whenever anything comes right at you.

    Again, the great part of ALL of that is that you can do all of that in the same build, and you're VASTLY outdamaging the pure cantrip build.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Again, the great part of ALL of that is that you can do all of that in the same build, and you're VASTLY outdamaging the pure cantrip build.
    I don't think OP's rather hazy vision of the front-line druid involves a great deal of actual melee combat, but instead a focus on using spells like flaming sphere to occupy the bonus action while serving the role of a full caster. There aren't many pure cantrip builds that care about DPR if we aren't talking about warlocks.

    Besides, taking polearm mastery rather than wait caster at level one as a druid is pretty iffy, considering how many concentration spells OP endorses.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Banned
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Okay, I'm going to ask you three important questions here:

    1. What are you actually trying to design?

    2. Do you know how the shillelagh spell works?

    3. Do you actually understand how weapon attacks work?
    For the first, your whole concept seems to say "front line melee combatant", so I assume you're trying go get the most out of that. If that's not correct, let me know.

    For the second, the answer is obviously no. Shillelagh allows you to use your spellcasting modifier (in this case, wisdom) for the attack and damage rolls instead of strength for the quarterstaff or club you cast it on, the weapon's damage die becomes a d8, and it becomes magical.

    For the third, weapon attacks always add your relevant stat modifier to the damage roll unless explicitly stated otherwise (like in the case of two weapon fighting).

    So, let's take a variant human for a spin here. Let's live in a world where we can get some good old ironwood, and make a set of ironwood half plate; really not out of the question for most standard D&D worlds, and would be at most an uncommon magic item(in fact, I know it's part of Forgotten Realms lore).
    You will be boosting wisdom and constitution to start, and taking Polearm master.

    Out the gate, you have 16 wis, 14 dex, 14 con. Using shillelagh, you're hitting with a +5 to the roll, doing 1d8+3 (avg 7.5) damage on the first round of combat and 1d8+1d4+6 (avg. 13) on each subsequent round, and, with a shield, your AC is 19. You can do this all day long, with no restrictions.

    By comparison, the same druid using thorn whip is using his action to do 1d6 damage (avg 3.5) and pulling the target 10 feet close to himself, 1d8 (avg 4.5), or 1d12 damage (6.5) but only on a con save of 13.

    At level 4, you've boosted wisdom by 2 points, making our staff wielder do an additional 1 damage per attack, totalling 8.5 and 15 on the first and subsequent rounds.

    At 5, the cantrip users get an extra die, doing either 2d6 (avg 7), 2d8 (avg 9) or 2d12 (avg 13). Poison spray beats out the quarterstaffer, but only on the first round.

    At 8, we boost our wisdom again, bumping quarterstaff up to 9.5 and 17 for first and subequent rounds.

    At 11, cantrips get an additional die, moving up to 3d6 (10.5), 3d8 (13.5) and 3d12 (19.5). Respectable damage now, but don't forget that poison spray is poison, so most things at this level are either resistant or immune.

    At 17, cantrips again get a boost, doing 4d6 (14), 4d8 (18), and 4d12 (26). Pretty respectable damage, and as a pure druid you are certainly better served by doing only cantrips at this point.

    Now, I'm sure you're probably feeling super great about your position, but let me remind you that there are a VAST number of ways to make the Quarterstaff the better option here.

    For one, by level 5, you can have Haste. That boosts your AC by another 2 (always good) but more importantly gives you another attack, bumping your damage up by another 9.5 a round or so. That sits you very comfortably above the 17th level poison spray at level 5.

    For another, you can take a level of fighter and get the dueling fighting style, boosting your damage by 2 per attack, which will put you above everything except for 17th level poison spray, again as low as level 6.

    Best of all you can do BOTH, and be doing in the range of 2d8+1d4+21 (or 32.5) per round as of level 8.

    If you want to simply boost your damage dice, at level 12 you can take magic initiate to get Booming Blade. You can use that to deal 1d8+2d8+5 (avg. 18.5) every round, since you can cast both that and shillelagh in the same round, jumping to 1d8+3d8+5 (avg. 23) per round at level 17th level; none of that is counting the potential bonus off-turn damage from booming blade.

    If you want a little more, do the booming blade trick, and then also take war caster at level 16, giving you an off-turn 18.5 damage attack whenever anything comes right at you.

    Again, the great part of ALL of that is that you can do all of that in the same build, and you're VASTLY outdamaging the pure cantrip build.
    [/quote]
    1:a druid that makes use of it's abilities to manage the battlefield while also being a capable& steady damage dealer that doesn't need to be in toomuch worry when foes come chew on them instead of allies... which it does well at in allregards.
    3: yes. your argument falls down because while cantrips will continue to improve
    2
    Spoiler: like this
    Show

    S h i l l e l a g h
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 bonus action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S, M (mistletoe, a sham rock leaf, and a
    club or quarterstaff)
    Duration: 1 minute
    The w ood of a club or quarterstaff you are holding is
    imbued with nature’s power. For the duration, you can
    use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for
    the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using
    that weapon, and the weapon's damage die becom es
    a d8. The weapon also becom es magical, if it isn’t
    already. The spell ends if you cast it again or if you let go
    of the weapon.

    But you are right that in my last reply, I didn't bump the damage on the quarterstaff to a d8 or type "+wis mod"


    Now recalculate your math as follows: add a bonus action doing 2d6 fire each round:
    Spoiler: here's why
    Show

    F l a m i n g S p h e r e
    2 nd-level conjuration
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a bit of tallow, a pinch of
    brimstone, and a dusting of pow dered iron)
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
    A 5-foot-diameter sphere of fire appears in an
    unoccupied space of your choice within range and lasts
    for the duration. Any creature that ends its turn within 5
    feet of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw.
    The creature takes 2d6 fire damage on a failed save, or
    half as much damage on a successful one.
    As a bonus action, you can move the sphere up to 30
    feet. If you ram the sphere into a creature, that creature
    must make the saving throw against the sphere’s
    damage, and the sphere stops moving this turn.

    W hen you move the sphere, you can direct it over
    barriers up to 5 feet tall and jum p it across pits up to
    10 feet wide. The sphere ignites flammable objects not
    being w orn or carried, and it sheds bright light in a
    20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

    or add 2d10 radiant damage each round instead just because
    Spoiler: yep
    Show

    M o o n b e a m
    2nd-level evocation
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 120 feet
    Components: V, S, M (several seeds of any m oonseed
    plant and a piece of opalescent feldspar)
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
    A silvery beam of pale light shines dow n in a 5-foot-
    radius, 40-foot-high cylinder centered on a point within
    range. Until the spell ends, dim light fills the cylinder.
    W hen a creature enters the spell’s area for the first
    time on a turn or starts its turn there, it is engulfed
    in ghostly flames that cause searing pain, and it must
    make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 2d10 radiant

    damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a
    successful one.
    A shapechanger m akes its saving throw with
    disadvantage. If it fails, it also instantly reverts to its
    original form and can’t assume a different form until it
    leaves the spell’s light.
    On each of your turns after you cast this spell, you can
    use an action to move the beam 60 feet in any direction.
    A t Higher Levels. W hen you cast this spell using a
    spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by
    1d10 for each slot level above 2nd.

    Now sure the polearmmaster guy could cast those as well, but the casting specialized one will be making those saves with advantage.

    Now you've suggested polearm master & magic initiate for wizard spells rather than focusing on building your strengths as a druid. Your concentration checks are not made with advantage & going to be much harder to make as a result because the druid who focused on their skills as a druid will be making them with advantage & could be making them with con save proficiency.... but hey, that booming blade will let you deal a little extra damage up close so who cares aboutthe concentration checks you'll be failing on everything else when you need to get close like that or focusing on your druid abilities when you could have a wizard cantrip .


    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    I don't think OP's rather hazy vision of the front-line druid involves a great deal of actual melee combat, but instead a focus on using spells like flaming sphere to occupy the bonus action while serving the role of a full caster. There aren't many pure cantrip builds that care about DPR if we aren't talking about warlocks.

    Besides, taking polearm mastery rather than wait caster at level one as a druid is pretty iffy, considering how many concentration spells OP endorses.
    Correct. While a wizard is running around casting actions on disengage & trying to avoid getting AoO'd, a 19-20+ac druid can stand more confidently & use that action to deal some decent damage that may or may not be bumped to quite respectable levels with a bonus/no action till the original up close threat has been managed. Combine spells like thorn whip to drag that critter chasing/threatening the wizard out of a place that risks AoO to the wizard & the druid can bump the druid party's total combined damage again by allowing the wizard to attack rather than needing to use disengage/require the party' healer to heal the damage mounting up on the wizard. None of the guides talk much about how to really coordinate all the bits to effectively using cantrips, the sorts of doors that can be opened by doing so, & the risks involved.
    Last edited by Tetrasodium; 2017-03-24 at 12:45 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Below sea level
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Not sure what you are talking about. Is this a D&D lore thing, a MtG thing, or something else?
    Wait a sec, is this a WoW Hearthstone thing? That's Blizzard, not WoTC.
    A bit late of a reaction, but It is The Ravnica Setting from MtG which has a series of guilds among which stand the Gruul: they want nature to take over the city again like it used to. so, yeah, a giant natural recalamation effort...

    Oh, and MtG is definitely WotC...
    Warlock Poetry?
    Or ways to use me in game?
    Better grab a drink...

    Currently ruining Strahd's day - Avatar by the Outstanding Smuchsmuch

    First Ordained Jr. Tormlet by LoyalPaladin

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Socratov View Post
    A bit late of a reaction, but It is The Ravnica Setting from MtG which has a series of guilds among which stand the Gruul: they want nature to take over the city again like it used to. so, yeah, a giant natural recalamation effort...

    Oh, and MtG is definitely WotC...
    Yeah right. Next you're going to tell me Wizards released some supplemental rules to explicitly play D&D in the Magic universe. . . .

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    1:a druid that makes use of it's abilities to manage the battlefield while also being a capable& steady damage dealer that doesn't need to be in toomuch worry when foes come chew on them instead of allies... which it does well at in allregards.
    ...which you could do from outsize the front line.


    3: yes. your argument falls down because while cantrips will continue to improve
    But you are right that in my last reply, I didn't bump the damage on the quarterstaff to a d8 or type "+wis mod"
    You're right, you did not, which makes a substantial amount of difference. Also, no, I showed exactly how, in my last post, damage-wise one hit from Shillelagh generates more avg. damage than everything other than poison spray up to level 11.

    Now recalculate your math as follows: add a bonus action doing 2d6 fire each round:
    *snip*
    Now sure the polearmmaster guy could cast those as well, but the casting specialized one will be making those saves with advantage.


    Now you've suggested polearm master & magic initiate for wizard spells rather than focusing on building your strengths as a druid. Your concentration checks are not made with advantage & going to be much harder to make as a result because the druid who focused on their skills as a druid will be making them with advantage & could be making them with con save proficiency.... but hey, that booming blade will let you deal a little extra damage up close so who cares aboutthe concentration checks you'll be failing on everything else when you need to get close like that or focusing on your druid abilities when you could have a wizard cantrip .
    *Sigh*

    Ignoring the fact that you suggested that people take defensive duelist in your own guide, exactly what strengths am I ignoring?

    If you want to push more of a "Gish" idea with your druid, I would still suggest the same three feats (war caster, polearm master, magic initiate), just in different order.

    With my same Vhuman build:

    level 1: warcaster
    level 4: Wis boost (18)
    Level 8: Wis boost (20)
    Level 12: Magic Initiate (Wizard or sorcerer)
    Level 16: Polearm Master
    Level 19: Con boost (16)

    With this, until 12th level, you'll be casting Shillelagh and Flame Sphere/moonbeam round 1, then hitting with your beatstick and moving the spell around every level after that. It regularly outdamages both thorn whip and produce flame, both of which you can have in your pocket fro when you must have them.

    After level 12, you're taking Booming Blade. Now, you do the same (cast shillelagh and then moonbeam), except now you're hitting for 3d8+5+moonbeam damage each round instead of the flat 3d8 or 3d6
    (as I said before, poison spray is a garbage, borderline useless cantrip by this level), with the potential for off-turn damage.

    For this build, polearm master really serves as a way to get more AoOs, sinc you can get them on incoming foes, and using War caster you can booming blade them when they trigger that.


    My main point to all of this is that you message is terribly unclear, and still unfocused. just having a high AC does not make you a front-line combatant, and I still think you re blind to the true benefit of wild shape, that being the HP buffer that it provides.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Banned
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    ...which you could do from outsize the front line.




    You're right, you did not, which makes a substantial amount of difference. Also, no, I showed exactly how, in my last post, damage-wise one hit from Shillelagh generates more avg. damage than everything other than poison spray up to level 11.







    *Sigh*

    Ignoring the fact that you suggested that people take defensive duelist in your own guide, exactly what strengths am I ignoring?

    If you want to push more of a "Gish" idea with your druid, I would still suggest the same three feats (war caster, polearm master, magic initiate), just in different order.

    With my same Vhuman build:

    level 1: warcaster
    level 4: Wis boost (18)
    Level 8: Wis boost (20)
    Level 12: Magic Initiate (Wizard or sorcerer)
    Level 16: Polearm Master
    Level 19: Con boost (16)

    With this, until 12th level, you'll be casting Shillelagh and Flame Sphere/moonbeam round 1, then hitting with your beatstick and moving the spell around every level after that. It regularly outdamages both thorn whip and produce flame, both of which you can have in your pocket fro when you must have them.

    After level 12, you're taking Booming Blade. Now, you do the same (cast shillelagh and then moonbeam), except now you're hitting for 3d8+5+moonbeam damage each round instead of the flat 3d8 or 3d6
    (as I said before, poison spray is a garbage, borderline useless cantrip by this level), with the potential for off-turn damage.

    For this build, polearm master really serves as a way to get more AoOs, sinc you can get them on incoming foes, and using War caster you can booming blade them when they trigger that.


    My main point to all of this is that you message is terribly unclear, and still unfocused. just having a high AC does not make you a front-line combatant, and I still think you re blind to the true benefit of wild shape, that being the HP buffer that it provides.
    Clearly you are stuck on a literal interpretation of "front line" and a belief that being capable at it with your starting proficiencies while investing in other areas means that you must. The hp buffer from wildshape is indeed nice for moon druids, quite a bit less so for land druids significantly behind moon's wildshape. As to why you are so hung up on one of the three damage cantrip options druids get I'm a little confused. It's an option, one of three, use the one that works best for the situation.

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    May 2015

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Clearly you are stuck on a literal interpretation of "front line"
    So please explain what you meant by "front line" if you did not in fact mean "the line in front."
    We already know you don't like taking words at their meaning because this thread even exists, and "druids will not wear armor made of metal" to you means "my druid can wear whatever armor I want," but please help us to understand how "front line" doesn't mean "front line" to you.
    If you quote me and ask me questions,
    and I continue to not respond,
    it's probably because I have
    you on my Ignore list.
    Congratulations.

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by DivisibleByZero View Post
    We already know you don't like taking words at their meaning because this thread even exists, and "druids will not wear armor made of metal" to you means "my druid can wear whatever armor I want," but please help us to understand how "front line" doesn't mean "front line" to you.
    The word front line in 'front line druid's refers only to the space the druid occupies. The druid need not swing a weapon and do consistent damage to occupy it, OP just means a druid who does classic druid things (minionmancy, control spells, burst damage like erupting earth) while serving as a member of the defensive line.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    The word front line in 'front line druid's refers only to the space the druid occupies. The druid need not swing a weapon and do consistent damage to occupy it, OP just means a druid who does classic druid things (minionmancy, control spells, burst damage like erupting earth) while serving as a member of the defensive line.
    I think, in general, the issue is that the front defensive line is a poor place for a druid to be, unless they are speccing for melee. OP certainly intends for the druid to be a close range fighter combatant (see the bright blue ratings for Thorn Whip and Poison spray), yet doesn't seem to understand the basic mechanics of making that work well.

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    The word front line in 'front line druid's refers only to the space the druid occupies. The druid need not swing a weapon and do consistent damage to occupy it, OP just means a druid who does classic druid things (minionmancy, control spells, burst damage like erupting earth) while serving as a member of the defensive line.
    If druids were meant to be on the front line they would be allowed to wear better armor.

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    I think the OP tries to challenge the idea that you can't be a full caster from the front line. Cantrip and DPR are I think secondary to the space-holding and spellcasting at least in OP's eyes.

  14. - Top - End - #74
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by tieren View Post
    If druids were meant to be on the front line they would be allowed to wear better armor.
    Technically they are, or they might be. Besides, who cares about MEANT, the thread's about what's possible.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Let's say a DM used the Minor Properties table (DMG, Page 143) when rolling random treasure, and ends up rolling 13 for a magical plate.

    The result for 13 is as follows:

    "Strange Material. The item was created from a material that is bizarre given its purpose. Its durability is unaffected."

    Now, I could see a DM worth his mantle to remember that once upon a time in D&D's history druids were known to make magically enhanced wood called ironwood which was hard as steel, which they used to create armor and shields. Now, let's assume his group has a druid, and while the druid didn't have proficiency (yet), he had enough strength to wear the armor, and they were going to level up anyway, so the druid could - if he wanted to - to take Heavily Armored Feat (which the rules can't forbid a druid from doing. They have medium armor proficiency and that's enough for the feat's prerequisite). Would you claim that the druid couldn't use an Ironwood Plate effectively, if he had proficiency and enough strength?
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
    4e since 2008
    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
    5e since 2014

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Let's say a DM used the Minor Properties table (DMG, Page 143) when rolling random treasure, and ends up rolling 13 for a magical plate.

    The result for 13 is as follows:

    "Strange Material. The item was created from a material that is bizarre given its purpose. Its durability is unaffected."

    Now, I could see a DM worth his mantle to remember that once upon a time in D&D's history druids were known to make magically enhanced wood called ironwood which was hard as steel, which they used to create armor and shields. Now, let's assume his group has a druid, and while the druid didn't have proficiency (yet), he had enough strength to wear the armor, and they were going to level up anyway, so the druid could - if he wanted to - to take Heavily Armored Feat (which the rules can't forbid a druid from doing. They have medium armor proficiency and that's enough for the feat's prerequisite). Would you claim that the druid couldn't use an Ironwood Plate effectively, if he had proficiency and enough strength?
    Of course he can use that armor effectively. There are lots of variations of the heavier armors in fantasy literature that are made out of materials other than metal, with bone/chitin probably being the clear favorite.

  17. - Top - End - #77
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Of course he can use that armor effectively. There are lots of variations of the heavier armors in fantasy literature that are made out of materials other than metal, with bone/chitin probably being the clear favorite.
    Exactly my point. The question was merely rhetorical.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
    4e since 2008
    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
    5e since 2014

  18. - Top - End - #78
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Below sea level
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus the Grim View Post
    Yeah right. Next you're going to tell me Wizards released some supplemental rules to explicitly play D&D in the Magic universe. . . .
    Who? Me? I wouldn't dare...

    Anyway, I miss the oddly specific but very fun and quite useful bearbarian 3/Moondruid X build. I have tried it and it works quite well: you get the back-up casting from druid, have decent AC (Unarmored Defence keeps working in whildshape if you pick the right shapes) and get to last twice as long in wild shape. Tested it at character lvl 10 (bearb 3/MD 7) and it works like a charm. Ability scores STR 13, rest in WIS main and CON and DEX second. Pick Produce Flame, and utility Casting. For buffs Freedom of Movement is great (don't get hassled by stuff like hazardous terrain and grapples) and Longstrider (a bear has 40' movement, if you cast Longstrider you get 50' movement, if you take 2 more barbarian levels, you can get to 60' movement, for when you absolutely need to maul that sucker's ass right the fornication now). Bonus points if you can find a friendly caster happy to tap you with Haste while you keep everyone occupied by instant bear. Items: get an insignia of Claws (AL legal as it is a thing you can get from HotDQ). As for combat:

    1st form: you, no rage, no bear, just you with a maul.
    2nd form: you, enraged with a maul (this takes bonus action #1), not unlike a bear
    3rd form: You as an angry bear, mauling everyone's ass (this takes your 2nd turn's bonus action, available at character level 5)
    4th form: You, as an angry cave bear, like your 3rd form, but available at character lvl 9 and with the ability to see in the dark.
    5th form: You, as an angry Elemental pounding/burning/drowning **** as you see fit.

    this will likely be your final form, until you unlock the ability to really do something special.

    So for a build that gives you access to just about every bear pun out there, and every Freeza saga lame shape changing joke this build gives a lot.
    Warlock Poetry?
    Or ways to use me in game?
    Better grab a drink...

    Currently ruining Strahd's day - Avatar by the Outstanding Smuchsmuch

    First Ordained Jr. Tormlet by LoyalPaladin

  19. - Top - End - #79
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Well, yeah: you're using a class that is in no way optimized from the outset to be a heavy frontline fighter to make a heavy front line fighter.

    To a second point, a level of monk is actually AMAZING for this build, as it turns your attack stat into your AC stat. The bonus action attack from the quaterstaff is worth more at that level, not because it does more damage, but because it's magical and works off wisdom. Honestly, a great tactic is to take magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, and some decent 1/day wizard spell that doesn't really need your spellcasting stay (unseen servant, identify, etc.) So you can get those bonus damage dice when you don't want to use your bonus action to attack.
    True, but then there is not much of a point on taking Polearm master.


    In my mind, there was precisely one reason to take Thorn Whip: as a wisdom-focused Eldritch Knight, so you could use the Pull with your bonus action attack. This was basically overshadowed entirely with Lightning Lure, so I see no reason to ever take Thorn Whip.
    Well... one is a STR save (that will most likely be passed by any big mob) and the other is a hit based (I only need to hit)

  20. - Top - End - #80
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by tieren View Post
    If druids were meant to be on the front line they would be allowed to wear better armor.
    Well... they are, that's why they got the Wildshape thing (Circle of the Moon?)

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Your "guide" has awful grammar and wall of text formatting, which make reading it a chore.

    It's also based on ignoring something that the rules are explicit about, Sage Advice or not. You're also ignoring other fundamental rules to make this work. For example, how are you fulfilling the material component of the spells in your guide with a weapon and shield occupying both hands? War Caster only ignores the somatic requirement; you still need to manipulate a druid focus to do so. The ability to put their holy symbol on their shield to bypass that is an explicit benefit of Paladins and Clerics.

    Additionally, the end result is a weak character. A guide is supposed to reflect a high level of mastery over a system, and a player who follows your guide wholesale is going to end up with a character that works poorly.

    This is a 5th edition forum, not a homebrew one. As adjucation friendly as 5th edition is, speculation on what classes MIGHT have if you ignore the rules aren't really useful in this environment. It's like writing a guide based on optimizing a spellcaster if your DM allowed you to ignore concentration.

    In summary, a relevant guide is going to have solid advice and follow the rules of the system; other strong plusses are if it's easy to read and easy for a new player to follow. Your post has none of these qualities and comes off more as speculation than anything else.

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Banned
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    I think the OP tries to challenge the idea that you can't be a full caster from the front line. Cantrip and DPR are I think secondary to the space-holding and spellcasting at least in OP's eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    Technically they are, or they might be. Besides, who cares about MEANT, the thread's about what's possible.
    Correct in both cases. To the people having issues with the color code, "If this line is still here, the colors are still being applied through the guide as I have time." before the key makes it pretty clear. To the people upset about poison spray being rated blue/

    Quote Originally Posted by busterswd View Post
    Your "guide" has awful grammar and wall of text formatting, which make reading it a chore.

    It's also based on ignoring something that the rules are explicit about, Sage Advice or not. You're also ignoring other fundamental rules to make this work. For example, how are you fulfilling the material component of the spells in your guide with a weapon and shield occupying both hands? War Caster only ignores the somatic requirement; you still need to manipulate a druid focus to do so. The ability to put their holy symbol on their shield to bypass that is an explicit benefit of Paladins and Clerics.

    Additionally, the end result is a weak character. A guide is supposed to reflect a high level of mastery over a system, and a player who follows your guide wholesale is going to end up with a character that works poorly.

    This is a 5th edition forum, not a homebrew one. As adjucation friendly as 5th edition is, speculation on what classes MIGHT have if you ignore the rules aren't really useful in this environment. It's like writing a guide based on optimizing a spellcaster if your DM allowed you to ignore concentration.

    In summary, a relevant guide is going to have solid advice and follow the rules of the system; other strong plusses are if it's easy to read and easy for a new player to follow. Your post has none of these qualities and comes off more as speculation than anything else.

    The "material component" is simple,
    Spoiler: MATERIAL(M)-PHB203
    Show

    M a t e r i a l (M )
    Casting some spells requires particular objects,
    specified in parentheses in the component entry.
    A character can use a component pouch or a
    spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of
    the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is
    indicated for a component, a character must have that
    specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
    If a spell states that a material component is
    consum ed by the spell, the caster must provide this
    component for each casting of the spell.
    A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these
    com ponents, but it can be the same hand that he or she
    uses to perform somatic components.


    By raw it's covered without any concerns. you might be at home over here with some other folks upset that bards don't need to drop everything to play a lute during battle for this reason.

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Correct in both cases. To the people having issues with the color code, "If this line is still here, the colors are still being applied through the guide as I have time." before the key makes it pretty clear. To the people upset about poison spray being rated blue/




    The "material component" is simple,
    Spoiler: MATERIAL(M)-PHB203
    Show

    M a t e r i a l (M )
    Casting some spells requires particular objects,
    specified in parentheses in the component entry.
    A character can use a component pouch or a
    spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of
    the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is
    indicated for a component, a character must have that
    specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
    If a spell states that a material component is
    consum ed by the spell, the caster must provide this
    component for each casting of the spell.


    By raw it's covered without any concerns. you might be at home over here with some other folks upset that bards don't need to drop everything to play a lute during battle for this reason.
    Funny part is your quote specifies exactly why this won't work. Let's take a closer look, without the snipping:

    A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these
    com ponents,
    but it can be the same hand that he or she
    uses to perform somatic components
    .
    Now let's follow this logically: bold part states you must have a hand free, but the italics part states that if you have a hand free for the somatic requirement, that hand can do a somatic and material requirement at the same time.

    War Caster states you can fulfill a somatic component without a free hand. It does not state that it bypasses the material requirement's free hand. Additionally, if you don't have a free hand to fulfill the somatic requirement, even if you didn't need it, your condition to bypass the material requirement is not met.

    RAW, your build doesn't work.
    Last edited by busterswd; 2017-03-24 at 07:39 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Dr.Samurai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    ICU, under a cherry tree.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by busterswd View Post
    This is a 5th edition forum, not a homebrew one. As adjucation friendly as 5th edition is, speculation on what classes MIGHT have if you ignore the rules aren't really useful in this environment.
    This is bull. Everything else you said *may* be true, but this is horse ****.

    There is literally no reason to restrict druids from making use of any medium armor but for the one line. Developers have said ask your DM, it isn't a big deal.

    If someone wants to write a guide under that assumption, that is perfectly acceptable. If you can't make use of it, then keep scrolling. Don't deprive the rest of us of a potentially useful resource because understanding that the guide works on a very reasonable premise is too much reading comprehension for you and the other sticklers.

    I'm interested in this premise, but don't know how well it works because the OP is difficult for me to keep reading. So you're right there. But man... it's such a simple thing to assume, and to tell someone not to bother over such a small thing is annoying as ****.
    It's like writing a guide based on optimizing a spellcaster if your DM allowed you to ignore concentration.
    Yeah, and if there was a reason to make that assumption, that would be perfectly fine. This isn't out of nowhere. It was enough of a question to ask the developers. They responded. It's seriously not a big deal.

    It's irritating how completely and totally minor this is (admittedly, by developers, not OP, and admittedly, but the annoying sticklers in this thread, underpowered concept) and yet how stubbornly contested it is.

    For my part, I would be interested in playing a druid that doesn't use Wildshape to engage in melee. If that's possible under this assumption, I want to know. So please, the rest of you sticks in the mud go away.

    @OP: Your original post could use some formatting. It's difficult to read as is.

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Socratov View Post
    A bit late of a reaction, but It is The Ravnica Setting from MtG which has a series of guilds among which stand the Gruul: they want nature to take over the city again like it used to. so, yeah, a giant natural recalamation effort...

    Oh, and MtG is definitely WotC...
    Weird. I've got a card in Hearthstone called Gruul, and that is what I though you were referring to. I now realize that "the Gruul" is a different thing. Oops, and thanks for clearing that up.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    This is bull. Everything else you said *may* be true, but this is horse ****.

    There is literally no reason to restrict druids from making use of any medium armor but for the one line. Developers have said ask your DM, it isn't a big deal.

    If someone wants to write a guide under that assumption, that is perfectly acceptable. If you can't make use of it, then keep scrolling. Don't deprive the rest of us of a potentially useful resource because understanding that the guide works on a very reasonable premise is too much reading comprehension for you and the other sticklers.

    I'm interested in this premise, but don't know how well it works because the OP is difficult for me to keep reading. So you're right there. But man... it's such a simple thing to assume, and to tell someone not to bother over such a small thing is annoying as ****.

    Yeah, and if there was a reason to make that assumption, that would be perfectly fine. This isn't out of nowhere. It was enough of a question to ask the developers. They responded. It's seriously not a big deal.

    It's irritating how completely and totally minor this is (admittedly, by developers, not OP, and admittedly, but the annoying sticklers in this thread, underpowered concept) and yet how stubbornly contested it is.

    For my part, I would be interested in playing a druid that doesn't use Wildshape to engage in melee. If that's possible under this assumption, I want to know. So please, the rest of you sticks in the mud go away.

    @OP: Your original post could use some formatting. It's difficult to read as is.

    Here's the deal: rules assumptions aside, it's NOT a useful resource. It's a low effort, poorly formatted, knee jerk response that's barely readable and gives flawed recommendations. If it were some quality, carefully thought out, coherent guide, I'd disagree with its validity, but would praise the thought behind it.

    Additionally, his build doesn't even work for other reasons. I'm normally not a huge stickler for RAW if ignoring it contributes to the flow or fun of the game, but War Caster just doesn't do what he wants it to do, just as having a holy symbol on the shield doesn't free a cleric or paladin from somatic requirements.

    Concerning rules legality, people have asked hundreds of questions that were findable in the PHB in clear language. Asking the devs doesn't mean the answer is somehow unclear (though in cases where rules interactions are unclear, asking the devs can be a good way to go). This is something that, as has been pointed out, is in the rules text, not the flavor text, and is a pretty explicit "a member of the class will not do something." By comparison, look at the section on Paladin's oaths. The language there clearly reflects a behavioral intent, as opposed to a rules clarification.

    The druid restriction on metal armor is even in the multiclassing chart, where it discusses what equipment a class can use. It's literally repeated in a chart dealing with strict restrictions.
    Last edited by busterswd; 2017-03-24 at 08:04 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    IMO it's fairly obviously a fluffy concern. The druid chooses not to wear metal armour, but he is physically and mechanically capable of doing so.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Banned
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    @OP: Your original post could use some formatting. It's difficult to read as is.
    Thanks, the original was a lonnnnng word doc I had to split up & I'm going through adding color codes as life permits time. Through the vast majority of it, each spell/race/feat/etc should be it's own list item.
    Last edited by Tetrasodium; 2017-03-24 at 10:22 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #89

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    mechanically capable of doing so.
    Mechanically they will not do so. What is so hard to grasp about the term "will not"? Here's the deal, I don't care if Druids can wear metal armour in your game, I really don't. I do care when mental gymnastics are performed to try and make that RAW, when it just isn't. Don't care if you think it's a dumb rule, it's a rule. Just admit it's a rule, that you think is dumb, and don't use. Not hard.

    Honestly, this wouldn't have even been a problem if the OP had of let the guide stand its own, instead of using it as a platform to reiterate his aggressive position on the Druid armor argument, again.
    Last edited by War_lord; 2017-03-25 at 01:03 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Irhtos Sauriv's guide to front line druidism

    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    Mechanically they will not do so. What is so hard to grasp about the term "will not"? Here's the deal, I don't care if Druids can wear metal armour in your game, I really don't. I do care when mental gymnastics are performed to try and make that RAW, when it just isn't. Don't care if you think it's a dumb rule, it's a rule. Just admit it's a rule, that you think is dumb, and don't use. Not hard.
    What if I said that in Forgotten Realms, for worshippers of Mielikki, druids are allowed to wear all kinds of armor usable by rangers and that this fact has never been revoked.

    Check it out for yourself, if you don't believe me: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wik...ki#Worshippers

    In general, yes, druids won't, but as always, specific trumps general.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-03-25 at 12:59 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •