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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

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    Default Rogue archtype: Athlete

    I made a rogue archtype called 'The Athlete'. I did copy some ideas from other homebrew archtypes. It is probably (a bit) too strong, so I wouldn't be suprised if it needs some tweaking. Let me know what you think :)

    Parkour
    Starting at 3rd level, you have completed your basic training in parkour. These sets of techniques help you move more efficiently around. Because of this you gain the following effects:
    - You have advantage on movement related checks like jumping, swimming or climbing;
    - When you are prone it only takes you 5 feet of movement to stand back up;
    - Your climbing and swimming speed become equal to your walking speed;
    - Non-magical difficult terrain no longer reduced your movement.

    Speed
    At 3rd level, your training has enabled you to move faster. Because of this you also have your base movement speed increased by 10 feet. This bonus increases to 15 feet bonus at 7th level, 20 feet at 13th level and 25 feet at 19th level. Further, you may add your Proficiency Bonus to Initiative Rolls.

    Gymnastics

    At 9th level, you do not need to make checks or saving throws to remain balanced on slippery surfaces or thin platforms. You never trigger traps that are triggered by weight and you do not break through fragile surfaces such as ice. Further, you may move across vertical surfaces, even upside down, but you must end your turn in a space you can normally occupy or fall prone.

    Safety First
    At 13th level, when you make a saving throw that allows you to add your proficiency bonus, you may treat any roll of a 9, or lower, as if you had rolled a 10 instead. In addition, choose two saving throw proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any saving throw you make with either of the chosen proficiencies.

    Lightning Reflexes
    At 17th level, you can no longer be surprised. In addition, you may use your cunning action as a free action instead of a bonus action. This may only be done once per short rest.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Safety First is so utterly, hilariously broken. It boils down to "I can't fail saves that I'm proficient in" 9 times out of 10.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
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    I do Let's Plays now. Current Game: Marron Helps A Friend

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Safety First is so utterly, hilariously broken. It boils down to "I can't fail saves that I'm proficient in" 9 times out of 10.
    Well, not really. Although I do agree it is pretty strong, most save DC's are 15+ when your level 13. If you are not proficient with a saving throw, you will fail even it you roll too low. Because let's say it's a wisdom saving throw DC 18, and you have 14 Wisdom. You still need to roll a 16 or higher. The fact a roll lower then a 10 become a 10, doesn't help you at all.

    If you are proficient with it, then it can potentially help you, but not always. Let's take the previous example, except you are proficient with a +5 bonus. You roll a 3, this becomes a 10+2+5 = 17. So this still doesn't help you. Although it would with a +6 prof bonus, but then DC's go up as well.

    What makes the ability strong is not the <10=10, but the double proficiency bonus. This makes it so that it is really hard to fail a saving throw if you have expertise in it. You could leave the expertise part out or nerf it by saying you only get one expertise in a saving throw.

    Edit: do you think the class feature is stronger then say the diamond soul ability?
    Last edited by Foxydono; 2017-03-23 at 04:20 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Yeah, no. Safety first is totally broken.

    The highest possible spell save DC is 19. A Rogue with +9 Dex saves (+5 Dex and +4 prof?+6 prof and +3 Dex? Anywhere inbetween?) spells like Fireball, day in day out, even with the greatest sorcerer in the universe casting it. That should not be possible.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Quote Originally Posted by GalacticAxekick View Post
    Yeah, no. Safety first is totally broken.

    The highest possible spell save DC is 19. A Rogue with +9 Dex saves (+5 Dex and +4 prof?+6 prof and +3 Dex? Anywhere inbetween?) spells like Fireball, day in day out, even with the greatest sorcerer in the universe casting it. That should not be possible.
    Thanks for the helpful and constructive critisism. And, no. Highest Dexterity DC is 24/25, look in the MM. I'm not saying it isn't broken, but you are talking like it's the end of the world. So the rogue makes almost of his Dexterity saving throws, big deal. Even without this ability that is the most likely scenario. Although certainly powerful I still do not see how this is better then a class ability that says you are proficient with all saving throws and even allows re-rolls.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxydono View Post
    Thanks for the helpful and constructive critisism.
    My pleasure

    And, no. Highest Dexterity DC is 24/25, look in the MM. I'm not saying it isn't broken, but you are talking like it's the end of the world.
    I believe I specified spell save DC. I see some high DCs in the MM, but these are breath weapons.

    So the rogue makes almost of his Dexterity saving throws, big deal. Even without this ability that is the most likely scenario.
    There's a difference between improved odds to succeed a saving throw and the ability to completely ignore a hazard at all times. There's a difference between having improved odds to dodge a Fireball and being able to stand them for all eternity unscathed. The latter trivializes challenges.

    Although certainly powerful I still do not see how this is better then a class ability that says you are proficient with all saving throws and even allows re-rolls.
    Proficiency in all saving throws (see: Monks) means you have good odds against all challenges, but doesn't make any of them trivial. Rerolling saving throws (see: Fighters) will often trivialize the effect, but this ability is limited per rest to prevent its abuse.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxydono View Post
    Well, not really. Although I do agree it is pretty strong, most save DC's are 15+ when your level 13. If you are not proficient with a saving throw, you will fail even it you roll too low. Because let's say it's a wisdom saving throw DC 18, and you have 14 Wisdom. You still need to roll a 16 or higher. The fact a roll lower then a 10 become a 10, doesn't help you at all.

    If you are proficient with it, then it can potentially help you, but not always. Let's take the previous example, except you are proficient with a +5 bonus. You roll a 3, this becomes a 10+2+5 = 17. So this still doesn't help you. Although it would with a +6 prof bonus, but then DC's go up as well.

    What makes the ability strong is not the <10=10, but the double proficiency bonus. This makes it so that it is really hard to fail a saving throw if you have expertise in it. You could leave the expertise part out or nerf it by saying you only get one expertise in a saving throw.

    Edit: do you think the class feature is stronger then say the diamond soul ability?
    Yep, it's stronger. It's narrower, true, but...

    Diamond Soul's second part has a resource cost and doesn't actually help you pass the save. It just gives you a do-over. Meanwhile, Safety First renders it impossible for you to roll lower than 20 + Mod for two saves, which jumps up to 22 + Mod when you've hit 17th level.

    Also, Rogues are only proficient in two saves at the point where you get Safety First... so yes, you do auto-pass saves you're proficient in (unless you've multiclassed or are playing after 15th level). Expertise on saving throws is just a bad idea in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I do Let's Plays now. Current Game: Marron Helps A Friend

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Foxydono's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rogue archtype: Athlete

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Yep, it's stronger. It's narrower, true, but...

    Diamond Soul's second part has a resource cost and doesn't actually help you pass the save. It just gives you a do-over. Meanwhile, Safety First renders it impossible for you to roll lower than 20 + Mod for two saves, which jumps up to 22 + Mod when you've hit 17th level.

    Also, Rogues are only proficient in two saves at the point where you get Safety First... so yes, you do auto-pass saves you're proficient in (unless you've multiclassed or are playing after 15th level). Expertise on saving throws is just a bad idea in general.
    How about I scratch the last part about the expertise. This way you only pass easy saves without needing to roll (if proficient), but you will still need to roll for the higher DC's.

    If this is still too powerful you could make it a limited ability which 5e is so fond off: When you make a saving throw that allows you to add your proficiency bonus, you may treat any roll of a 9, or lower, as if you had rolled a 10 instead. You may use this ability once per short rest.

    This would be more balanced I agree, but I do this with much pain as I really hate nerfing my sweet abilities :p

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