Rogues without sneak attack

[Fixer]

Is there a substitution or RAW tweak out there that gives a rogue a different class ability than sneak attack? My preference would be NO sneak attack but taking just part of it away works too.

[Damionte]

I believe unearthed arcana has a rogue variant that replaces the rogues sneak attak with fighter feats.

[Mr Croup]

This variant might be what you're looking for.

[Fax Celestis]

Yup. The Feat Rogue is right there.

Of course, this means that a die of Sneak Attack is roughly equivalent to a feat.

[Arbitrarity]

Called "thug" or somesuch. You lose rogue sneak attack, gain bonus feats as fighter.

Here we are.

Triple Ninja'd!

Nope, quadruple ninja'd

[Spiryt]

Check this.

However I don't know if it's good exchange for sneak attack.


EDIT: And again there was perfect nothingness beside original post when I started writing this post...

[Fixer]

Great!

What book is that out of? Unearthed Arcana?

[Mr Croup]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a whole lot of simu-posting.

[Fax Celestis]

Yeah, it's in Unearthed Arcana, which is released publicly under the OGL.

[Fixer]

If the feats aren't limited to fighter feats that'll be exactly what I am hoping for. A bit more powerful than a fighter, though.

If they are limited to combat feats, that's not what I'm looking for. I am going with a rogue who hates to fight and is far more specialized in acting like he's something other than a rogue.

[Fax Celestis]

If the feats aren't limited to fighter feats that'll be exactly what I am hoping for. A bit more powerful than a fighter, though.

If they are limited to combat feats, that's not what I'm looking for. I am going with a rogue who hates to fight and is far more specialized in acting like he's something other than a rogue.

They are indeed limited to fighter bonus feats.

Perhaps a better fit for your concept would be the Factotum class from Dungeonscape or a Bard.

[Fixer]

I don't own Dungeonscape and I doubt any of my potential DMs would let me bring it in.

Bards aren't quite what I'm going for. I was hoping for no spellcasting and I really wanted the roguish trapfinding and evasions. Too bad bards are so focused on performing that they have no other real abilities.

Multi-classing, maybe? Rogue/Bard?

[Fax Celestis]

I don't own Dungeonscape and I doubt any of my potential DMs would let me bring it in.

Bards aren't quite what I'm going for. I was hoping for no spellcasting and I really wanted the roguish trapfinding and evasions. Too bad bards are so focused on performing that they have no other real abilities.

Multi-classing, maybe? Rogue/Bard?

Would you be amenable to homebrew?

[MrNexx]

If the feats aren't limited to fighter feats that'll be exactly what I am hoping for. A bit more powerful than a fighter, though.

If they are limited to combat feats, that's not what I'm looking for. I am going with a rogue who hates to fight and is far more specialized in acting like he's something other than a rogue.

There are a couple options. The easiest is to talk to your DM and say "Instead of fighter feats, can we agree on a mutual, yet limited, list from which I can choose bonus feats?" So, your character doesn't get fighter feats... he gets feats that have to do with skills.

Another option is that a Rogue might not be for you. I've had great fun playing a Cloistered Cleric in a situation like this (we don't use Trapfinding as a requirement to find high DC traps, if you're wanting to trapmonkey), though you could also try other skill-based classes, like the Bard (wide variety of skills and spells, UMD to cover using items, and party buffs so you're not useless in combat), the Beguiler, or the Factotum (who I've not seen).

[Spiryt]

Yeah, it's in Unearthed Arcana, which is released publicly under the OGL.

So does it mean I gen get it from Internet for free somehow without breaking the law and stealing from wizard guys?
On the wizards.com, there are still "Product Excerpts" only.

[imperialspectre]

Of course, this means that a die of Sneak Attack is roughly equivalent to a feat.

It would appear that it is, at least as far as the game designers are concerned.

[Douglas]

So does it mean I gen get it from Internet somehow without breaking the law and stealing from wizard guys?
On the wizards.com, there are still "Product Excerpts" only.

If you can find someone distributing it, yes. For most Unearthed Arcana stuff you won't have to look far - d20srd has it in the Variant Rules section.

[MrNexx]

Of course, this means that a die of Sneak Attack is roughly equivalent to a feat.

Bayushi's Technique.

[Person_Man]

If you want a Rogue that's not a Rogue, I would highly suggest the Psychic Rogue, Factotum (Dungeonscape), or Beguiler (PHBII). Each is quite powerful, but none of them has much of a focus on stabbing people.

The Psychic Rogue has tons of useful telepathic and sneaking psionic powers.

The Beguiler is a master of enchantment spells.

The Factotum is a half caster with excellent special abilities.

And all of them have 8 Skill points per level and great Skill lists.

[Arbitrarity]

Beguiler is 6+int, IIRC, but it's got int as a casting stat.

Also, so is psychic rogue.

[Fixer]

The guy I have in mind is more about being useful outside of combat. The other players would be playing combat heavy characters.

Gray Elf as race (for auto secret door finding)

Primary Skills (with at least a +3 Int bonus): Kept to Max

Bluff
Diplomacy
Hide
Listen
Search
Spot
Use Magic Device

Secondary Skills (Not maxed)

Appraise
Climb
Decipher Script
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Gather Information
Move Silent
Open Locks
Perform (Oratory)
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Spellcraft (if possible)
Tumble
Use Rope

Yes, I realize that's a lot of skills, but at 11 skill points per level I should be able to take a few ranks in the minors while keeping the majors to max.

[Spiryt]

If you can find someone distributing it, yes.

More specifficaly, I meant peer to peer. You can get basicaly every D&D book that way, but it's not fair.
However, if getting Unearthed Arcana that way is OK, it would be great.

EDIT: Sorry for off topic guys, It's hopefuly my last post about it.

[Douglas]

More specifficaly, I meant peer to peer. You can get basicaly every D&D book that way, but it's not fair.
However, if getting Unearthed Arcana that way is OK, it would be great.

EDIT: Sorry for off topic guys, It's hopefuly my last post about it.

By the letter of the law, I don't think so. Almost all the rules in Unearthed Arcana are released under the OGL, but the fluff and illustrations are not, I think. To get it legally you would have to find a copy where those parts were stripped out somehow. That said, WotC is less likely to care about pirating Unearthed Arcana than most other supplements because so much of its content is licensed for free distribution.

[Jack Mann]

If you want a Rogue that's not a Rogue, I would highly suggest the Psychic Rogue, Factotum (Dungeonscape), or Beguiler (PHBII). Each is quite powerful, but none of them has much of a focus on stabbing people.

The Psychic Rogue has tons of useful telepathic and sneaking psionic powers.

The Beguiler is a master of enchantment spells.

The Factotum is a half caster with excellent special abilities.

And all of them have 8 Skill points per level and great Skill lists.

All of these are 6+Int skill points, actually. The factotum makes up for it by having every skill as a class skill.