5e Feat for necromancer's

[Dhuraal]

Thoughts on this feat?

Blood Magic
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least 1 spell that deals damage.

Whenever you deal damage with a spell, you can tap into your own reserves of strength to empower it. Expend any number of hit dice, up to your current remaining number of hit dice, and add twice that many plus your constitution modifier to that spell as necrotic damage. The spell is now considered a Necromancy spell.

[JNAProductions]

So, for expending a 1d6 hit die (wizard), I add either 2d6+2 or 4d6 damage to a spell?

That's broken.

[Dhuraal]

So, for expending a 1d6 hit die (wizard), I add either 2d6+2 or 4d6 damage to a spell?

That's broken.

How would you get 4d6?

Edit: Maybe the wording is unclear, you don't add con modifier in dice. Con modifier is a straight plus. So a wizard with 14 con, expending 1 hit die would add 2d6 + 2 damage

[JNAProductions]

Add twice that many plus your constitution modifier. It's not clear if that's in NUMBERS or DICE.

And even if it is just 2d6+2, that's still hella powerful. Too much so.

[Dhuraal]

Add twice that many plus your constitution modifier. It's not clear if that's in NUMBERS or DICE.

And even if it is just 2d6+2, that's still hella powerful. Too much so.

The average of a D6 is 3.5, 2d6 avg is 7. Plus 2 from con gets that to 9. GWM and Sharpshooter add 10 damage. And with this you must sacrifice healing capabilities. I find it hard to call "hella powerful" :/

[JNAProductions]

Right... Except those come with a -5 penalty to hit, and can't be applied to AoE abilities.

Edit: And is available to more than just Wizards, so the damage die can easily be better, as can your Con mod.

[Dhuraal]

Right... Except those come with a -5 penalty to hit, and can't be applied to AoE abilities.

Edit: And is available to more than just Wizards, so the damage die can easily be better, as can your Con mod.

Any AoE I can think of gives the capability to save for half, which with enough creatures affected by the affect may come out to a large bump in damage true, so that arguement does not do much for me, and I concede that other classes that might want to take it have larger HD, but you are still sacrificing your natural healing capability. Assuming you are not bouncing from long rest to long rest, that is a pretty steep sacrifice, is it not? I'd originally thought of doing a simple 1-1 trade, but it seemed too weak of a benefit to be worth it, given the cost.

[JNAProductions]

Except, as artillery, you aren't liable to NEED the healing that much. Especially when you kill stuff far more effectively.

For reference, at 20th level, this lets you either TRIPLE DAMAGE METEOR SWARM-Meteor Swarm. Flipping METEOR SWARM-or massively increases your DPR for 20 rounds of combat, which is probably going to be every round you aren't casting BFC.

Edit: And, if you have an AoE hit, say, 5 enemies, and ALL FIVE SAVE-you just did an extra 4.5 per enemy. That's over 20 extra damage, at the cost of about 5.5 HP. And for each one that fails, it goes up.

[Dhuraal]

Except, as artillery, you aren't liable to NEED the healing that much. Especially when you kill stuff far more effectively.

For reference, at 20th level, this lets you either TRIPLE DAMAGE METEOR SWARM-Meteor Swarm. Flipping METEOR SWARM-or massively increases your DPR for 20 rounds of combat, which is probably going to be every round you aren't casting BFC.

Edit: And, if you have an AoE hit, say, 5 enemies, and ALL FIVE SAVE-you just did an extra 4.5 per enemy. That's over 20 extra damage, at the cost of about 5.5 HP. And for each one that fails, it goes up.

In theory you will be in back and not need healing that much, but in practice, unless the DM is going easy on you, creatures with a reasonable amount of intelligence and ranged weaponry or spells of their own will focus fire casters.

As for triple damage meteor swarm at level 20, is the possibility that walking gods, might be a tad more godly once a day that much of a concern?


Edit for your edit: Thinking in terms of a single battle and the consequence of a short rest shortly after, yeah it does not seem like much, but over the course of an entire day+ and multiple encounters and mishaps?

[JNAProductions]

In a word? Yes. There's a good balance in 5E. But casters, in general, are on the upper end. They don't need MORE power.

[Dhuraal]

In a word? Yes. There's a good balance in 5E. But casters, in general, are on the upper end. They don't need MORE power.

So the problem is that a caster would get a benefit....?

[JNAProductions]

Not so much that casters get a benefit, but that they get a benefit in what is supposed to be a martial domain-raw damage.

And a little bit, yeah. Buffing, say, the Sorcerer isn't bad, because they're on the lower end of power. But the Wizard doesn't need that.

If it was a METAMAGIC option, then I could behind a weakened version of it.

But as a universal feat? Nah.

[Dhuraal]

Not so much that casters get a benefit, but that they get a benefit in what is supposed to be a martial domain-raw damage.

And a little bit, yeah. Buffing, say, the Sorcerer isn't bad, because they're on the lower end of power. But the Wizard doesn't need that.

If it was a METAMAGIC option, then I could behind a weakened version of it.

But as a universal feat? Nah.

Hmmm, I do see your points. What if there was a limit like you could only expend 1 at a time, that it was 1-1, or that take the theme of the feat a step further and say that you take half or maybe even the full necrotic damage dealt to yourself as you are literally spending your life to empower it? Or some combination

[JNAProductions]

I think you actually taking the damage would be good. That way, it comes at a direct cost, not just a minor opportunity cost.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't think it's particularly balanced either, but I doubt I'd be able to convince you even if I cared to put in the effort. However, I will say that this ability would probably be more internally balanced (that is, caster to caster) if the bonus damage was per spell, rather than per target. As an example, the current version used by a wizard 11 could be spent turning a Disintegrate into 32d6+88 force damage on a failed save, and turning a Chain Lightning into 10d8+22d6+44 lightning damage per target; I would propose that it be changed sothat the 11 instances of 2d6+2 (or 22 instances of 1d6+1?) be spread around the targets as you please. This IMO would make using this spell with single target spells just as viable as soth AoEs.

Also, while I understand the fluff reasons, I'm hesitant to sign lff on changing the school of magic a spell is just because it has a weird component.

I would very much be in favor of a well-made class (or sub-class) focused around spells that are changed into pure blood magic rather than just being enhanced with blood magic.

[Dhuraal]

I think you actually taking the damage would be good. That way, it comes at a direct cost, not just a minor opportunity cost.

Mhmm, I was worried initially that direct damage to yourself would be too much, but like I said your concerns make sense and it is quite flavorful. I am feeling like trade 1 for 2, take half yourself is a decent place to start, and go on testing in practice. And it does in fact make it even more thematically a Necromancer feat as they get Necrotic resistance at lvl 6.

[Dhuraal]

I don't think it's particularly balanced either, but I doubt I'd be able to convince you even if I cared to put in the effort. However, I will say that this ability would probably be more internally balanced (that is, caster to caster) if the bonus damage was per spell, rather than per target. As an example, the current version used by a wizard 11 could be spent turning a Disintegrate into 32d6+88 force damage on a failed save, and turning a Chain Lightning into 10d8+22d6+44 lightning damage per target; I would propose that it be changed sothat the 11 instances of 2d6+2 (or 22 instances of 1d6+1?) be spread around the targets as you please. This IMO would make using this spell with single target spells just as viable as soth AoEs.

Also, while I understand the fluff reasons, I'm hesitant to sign lff on changing the school of magic a spell is just because it has a weird component.

I would very much be in favor of a well-made class (or sub-class) focused around spells that are changed into pure blood magic rather than just being enhanced with blood magic.

Well, again, an issue with my initial writing of it, it would not be 11 instances of (2d6 + 2), it would be 22d6 + 2. And choosing to individually dole out each instance could just bring the game to a stand still.

As discussed earlier in thread, the caster taking damage to itself, is a good stopgap to abuse s well

[AvatarVecna]

I'd rather it be balanced than fast, given how easily things can get overpowered, but okay. If you want it fast, have it be required to be spread evenly, so that if there's 40d6+40 attached to a spell that hits 10 people, they each take an extra 4d6+4.

EDIT: The HP balance is a nice balance point in place of HD, although I still think the above siggestion would be a good thing to implement.

[Dhuraal]

Talking with other members of my group, we are currently sitting at something like this:

Increase your XXXXXX by 1 to a maximum of 20

Pick 1 of the following:

A) When you complete a long rest you gain a pool of d8s up to your proficiency modifier, called blood magic dice. Whenever you cast a spell that causes you to roll dice or an effect from a spell you cast causes you to roll dice, you can spend as many blood magic dice from your pool as you want, to add to the spell or effect to empower it. You take necrotic damage equal to the total value rolled on the blood magic dice. When you do the a spell empowered this way is considered a Necromancy spell and any effect empowered this way is now considered to be from a Necromancy spell. If the blood magic dice are added to a spell as damage, their damage type is necrotic.

B) You may spend any number of your remaining hit dice in order to cast a spell of a level equal to the number of hit dice spent, up to the highest level spell slot you possess. This spell must be one you already know and have prepared. This spell can be boosted by other Blood Magic effects.

You may take this feat a second time, if you do, you receive the benefit you did not choose previously.

How does this seem?

Do you think that the increased stat should be Con, your spell casting modifier (you choose if you have multiple), or your choice of either?
Do you think you should get the stat boost again if you take the feat a second time?
Is B letting you get spell slots too cheaply? A Sorcerer does not get to spend points 1-1 for spell slots after all