A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    What are some good interesting builds for a new comer to d&d 3.5 the ga!e is dwarf race only tristalt e6 game.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Tristalt is alot like gestalt in my opinion, just more tacked on. Its almost difficult to not get a near perfect frame (full bab, all good saves, d8+ HD, skills) with all the combinations you can make, so that would be a nice start. The general rule of thumb is have an active and a passive, as in one class would give you abilities that are actively used, and the other gives you abilities that are "always on." In tristalt, however, you can get 2 that are passive instead, and really you wouldn't be missing a single step along the way.

    So now we get to a bigger question of what you are wanting to do in/for your group. If melee is your game, A warblade or crusader would do wonders, allowing other classes such as paladin, ranger, or even a druid would get some mileage. Now that I think about it, wildshaping and then using maneuvers would be kinda cool! Heck, even some levels of rogue would help generate extra damage, and in e6 every bit helps!
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    • What books are allowed? Core only? SRD? Core+Completes? All books? Etc.
    • What kind of characters do you like playing? What role do you want to fill? How do you want to do it? And so on.
    • What level of complexity are you comfortable with? On a scale of "smashy smash" to "my character uses five different magic systems?"
    • What level of power does the group generally operate at, and what level of cheese is tolerated?


    Totally off the top of my head, how about a Warlock 6//Scout 6//Fighter 6? Warlock gets you a few neat tricks and a few dice of bonus damage (Hideous Blow is pretty solid in E6) without being too complicated; Scout gets you plenty of skills and more easy-to-activate bonus damage, and Fighter gives you a sturdy chassis and plenty of feats. No need to worry about full attacks or anything-- just run (or tumble) in and make a standard action attack for weapon damage+7d6 (with Improved Skirmish)
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2017-04-01 at 01:00 PM.
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Some of the best passive classes are Incarnate (heavy utility/buffs), Totemist (natural attacks, light utility/buffs), and Binder (utility/versatility/buffs), but don't use both Incarnate and Totemist because a lot of their stuff won't stack. You don't necessarily need to use any of these, though.

    You should include a spellcasting class that can buff and provide utility spells, such as Cleric, Archivist, Wizard, Sorcerer, or Psion. You'll only need a 13 in your spellcasting stat to get max level spells, or 16 to get a bonus 3rd level slot.

    You should consider including a class that gets a lot of skill points per level, such as (Wildshape, Mystic) Ranger, (Feat) Rogue, Swordsage, or Beguiler.

    You should consider including a class that gets full BAB, like the above Ranger, Paladin (Freedom/Slaughter/Tyranny, Cha synergy), Fighter (Thug, Sneak Attack, fantastic E6 capstone feat), Crusader, or Warblade.

    Be mindful of what good saves each of your classes get. It should be easy to get two good saves, and you should be able to get all three good saves without any problem.

    Be aware of class synergies. Beguiler is a much better choice when combined with any other spellcasting class, because you can get Versatile Spellcaster and use two Beguiler slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. This gives you spontaneous access to every spell you know on your other class's list, which is every spell for a divine caster. It works better with Int synergy (Wizard or Archivist), but it's still worth considering on a Cleric or Druid.

    Example 1: Paladin/Sorcerer/Feat Rogue. You get full BAB, d10 HD, all three good saves plus Cha, Rogue skill points, four Fighter bonus feats, spells like Benign Transposition, Wings of Cover, and Wraithstrike, and you can dump Int and go Wis 12 to prepare Rhino's Rush twice. You don't need more than 16 Cha, and 14 is good enough, so you can mostly focus on physical stats.

    Example 2: Warblade/Beguiler/Fighter Feat Wizard. This gets full BAB, d12 HD, good Fort and Will saves (and Int bonus to Reflex), Beguiler skill points, two Fighter bonus feats, Wizard buffs, Beguiler utility spells and Versatile Spellcaster tricks, and Warblade maneuvers and stances. You only need intelligence and physical stats, and you can swap Wizard for Archivist and use light armor (or mithral medium armor) without worrying about spell failure.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    I would go Wizard/Cleric/Psion or Wizard/Cleric/Druid

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    I would go Wizard/Cleric/Psion or Wizard/Cleric/Druid
    If I may be so bold... Why? Do you have any sold reasoning as to why this would be a good idea, other than "all the spell slots, lolz"?
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    If I may be so bold... Why? Do you have any sold reasoning as to why this would be a good idea, other than "all the spell slots, lolz"?
    It would give probably some of the best versatility in the game. Also a CaDzilla God Wizard or CoDzilla God Wizard Psion would be one of the more powerful characters that there could be.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    It would give probably some of the best versatility in the game. Also a CaDzilla God Wizard or CoDzilla God Wizard Psion would be one of the more powerful characters that there could be.
    Ehhh... not so much. Action economy starts to be really important in gestalt-- sure, you might be able to cast every spell in the game, but you can still only cast one per turn*. To say nothing of redundancy-- if you can already cast Wizard spells, adding Cleric or Druid spells really won't help that much. And MADness. Looking at your combo... the big benefit you're getting from Druid is the companion and Wild Shape; the former can be replaced with Wild Cohort, and if you're just interested in the latter, Wild Shape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 1 does the same job with a much better chassis. Wizard//Cleric isn't bad, if you mostly use the Cleric side for persisting buffs, but it's not great either. Wizard//Archivist would be better, with broader spell access and more of an Int focus. Archivist//Factotum might be better still-- Factotum has lots of great passive Int-based stuff, and has just enough Wizard casting to pick up any super-situational stuff that Archivist can't give you.

    So yeah. Archivist//Factotum//Wild Shape Ranger** hits all the same notes, but leaves you with a stronger chassis and more synergy.


    *Generally speaking.
    **Take the Spiritual Guide or Urban Companion ACF to ditch your animal companion, and Champion of the Wild to replace the spellcasting. Prioritize Int, followed by Con and Wis.
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    As for MAD not really a problem, it gets to a point where if you are allowing tristalt you can do basically what you want and with some spells you can easily get to 100+ Int Wis and Cha.

    Edit: Also about the action economy part, that is why celerity exists. Also psionics has some nice things for breaking action economy.

    Even though this is E6 you should still be able to put your ability scores pretty high and if you go dragonwrought kobold Loredrake rite dragonspawn, etc you could cast higher than 3rd level spells which is where you get celerity here
    Last edited by flappeercraft; 2017-04-01 at 06:23 PM.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Don't overthink it. Basically you want 1 active class (abilities that use actions) and 2 passive class or semi passive classes.

    Finally you should choose a stat to concentrate on

    INT based which offers more skills
    WIS based which offer better use of perception skills (listen /spot)
    CHA based which offer better defenses (CHA to saves is easy to find) + better use of social skills

    INT based

    Warblade + psion or spell to power erudite (if allowed) + Rogue gives

    d12 hitpoints, maneuvers and stances, full BAB, sneak attack, good powers (great buffs that can be cast in armor), tons of skillpoints, all good saves


    CHA based has some merits (assuming you take a dwarf without the CHA penalty)

    Hexblade (trade familiar for dark companion) + Wilder (like psion but more powerful in e6 due to buffed manifesting)+ Bard (social spellcasting, skillpoints, inspire courage)

    slightly less skills and hitpoints but varied abilities

    As for WIS based, I find it harder to make one but

    Druid+ Barbarian+ ... ninja?

    gives you an angry invisible dinosaur (one has pounce with lots of attacks), sudden strike is weaker than sneak attack mind

    Personally I really like mounted combat in e6 (spirited charge gives you very decent damage for the investment)

    Crusader (for the smite that works against anything, take extra smites a few times) Smite damage is tripled by spirited charge
    Urban druid (for the light warhorse animal companion and the spellcasting)
    Bonus feat Rogue (for skillpoints and feats)

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Hardly optimal, but Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader would be both fluffy and hilarious.

    More seriously, Swordsage/Cleric(or Archivist)/Druid could work very well.

    If you want to stick to core, don't overlook Fighter/Rogue/Full Caster of your choice. Simple, but effective. Could swap Fighter for any other full BAB class, or Rogue for Bard or Ranger, and achieve a similar result, but Fighter and Rogue are particularly good in E6 (mostly courtesy of their capstones)

    Edit: Another idea might be Barbarian/Psion/Something Else (maybe Rogue or Psi Rogue). Strictly speaking, raging in no way interferes with psionics, beyond preventing you from making concentration checks.
    Last edited by TheTeaMustFlow; 2017-04-01 at 07:41 PM.
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Hit-and-Run Tactics Dwarf Fighter 1 / Swashbucker 3 / Warblade 2 // Rogue 6 // Beguiler 6.

    The chassi is nigh perfect: full BAB, d10-d12 HD, 8+INT skill points and 3 good saves. Also 2nd level maneuvers and 3rd level spells.

    Focus on Int (damage and ref save) and Dex (attack and damage).

    Alternate between spells and maneuvers as appropriate for a given situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    So yeah. Archivist//Factotum//Wild Shape Ranger** hits all the same notes, but leaves you with a stronger chassis and more synergy.


    *Generally speaking.
    **Take the Spiritual Guide or Urban Companion ACF to ditch your animal companion, and Champion of the Wild to replace the spellcasting. Prioritize Int, followed by Con and Wis.
    Since you're already doing intelligence, you might as well do Mystic Wild Shape Ranger along with Sword of the Arcane Order at this point. Yeah with the wizardry it's another active class, but it costs you basically nothing.

    If LA is payed for only on one side, it becomes a lot more valuable in gestalt, even moreso in tristalt.
    Last edited by Ierox; 2017-04-01 at 09:24 PM.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Why not get ECL 4-6 for one side? Archivist//Warblade//Half-Ogre (+2), Mineral Warrior (+1), Phrenic (+2), Primordial (+0), Lolth Touched (+1)

    You get: +6 Strength, 2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, 2 Intelligence, 2 Charisma, +4 Natural Armor, Large Size.
    +2 Strength, +4 Con, 2 Int (minimum 1), 2 Wis, 2 Cha, +3 Natural Armor, DR 8/Adamantine, Burrow Speed.
    Int +2 (if Int is 3 or greater), Wis +2, Cha +4. Psi-like Abilities, 1 Power Point, Power Resistance 10+Level
    -4 Strength, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha, At-Will Invisibility (or Levitate, or Invisibility Purge), +1 Caster Level to Spell-Like Abilities (which should count for PLAs too)
    +6 Strength, +6 Con, Immune to Fear, +4 Move Silent, +4 Hide.

    For a Grand Total of:
    +10 Str, +10 Con, -2 Dex, +4 Cha. +7 Natural Armor & DR 8/Adamantine.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagroth View Post
    Why not get ECL 4-6 for one side? Archivist//Warblade//Half-Ogre (+2), Mineral Warrior (+1), Phrenic (+2), Primordial (+0), Lolth Touched (+1)

    You get: +6 Strength, 2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, 2 Intelligence, 2 Charisma, +4 Natural Armor, Large Size.
    +2 Strength, +4 Con, 2 Int (minimum 1), 2 Wis, 2 Cha, +3 Natural Armor, DR 8/Adamantine, Burrow Speed.
    Int +2 (if Int is 3 or greater), Wis +2, Cha +4. Psi-like Abilities, 1 Power Point, Power Resistance 10+Level
    -4 Strength, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha, At-Will Invisibility (or Levitate, or Invisibility Purge), +1 Caster Level to Spell-Like Abilities (which should count for PLAs too)
    +6 Strength, +6 Con, Immune to Fear, +4 Move Silent, +4 Hide.

    For a Grand Total of:
    +10 Str, +10 Con, -2 Dex, +4 Cha. +7 Natural Armor & DR 8/Adamantine.
    You're onto something here. I'd probably use different templates, but this is definitely a shortcut to power right there.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ierox View Post
    Since you're already doing intelligence, you might as well do Mystic Wild Shape Ranger along with Sword of the Arcane Order at this point. Yeah with the wizardry it's another active class, but it costs you basically nothing.
    Mystic Ranger is always the right option in E6, where it's kiiiind of broken for exactly the reason you mention-- Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane Order is basically a Wizard//Ranger gestalt in a single class. But Mystic Ranger, as much as we all love it, is a Dragon Magazine class and thus can be generally assumed to be off the table. (Also, it's debatable if you can stack it with Wild Shape Ranger, as Mystic Ranger changes the level you get Combat Style, which is what Wild Shape Ranger trades away)
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagroth View Post
    Why not get ECL 4-6 for one side? Archivist//Warblade//Half-Ogre (+2), Mineral Warrior (+1), Phrenic (+2), Primordial (+0), Lolth Touched (+1)

    You get: +6 Strength, 2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, 2 Intelligence, 2 Charisma, +4 Natural Armor, Large Size.
    +2 Strength, +4 Con, 2 Int (minimum 1), 2 Wis, 2 Cha, +3 Natural Armor, DR 8/Adamantine, Burrow Speed.
    Int +2 (if Int is 3 or greater), Wis +2, Cha +4. Psi-like Abilities, 1 Power Point, Power Resistance 10+Level
    -4 Strength, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha, At-Will Invisibility (or Levitate, or Invisibility Purge), +1 Caster Level to Spell-Like Abilities (which should count for PLAs too)
    +6 Strength, +6 Con, Immune to Fear, +4 Move Silent, +4 Hide.

    For a Grand Total of:
    +10 Str, +10 Con, -2 Dex, +4 Cha. +7 Natural Armor & DR 8/Adamantine.
    E6 has special rules for level adjustment. You don't actually take any of the level adjustment, it just reduces your character's starting point buy.

    However, if you can do this, go something like Water Orc, Half-Goristro, Mineral Warrior, Lolth-Touched.

    Water Orc: Str +4, Con +2, Int -2, Wis -2, Cha -2, swim speed

    Half-Goristro: +8 Str, +8 Con, +5 natural armor, DR 5/Cold Iron, SR 10+HD, Levitate 3/day (1-2 HD), Fear 1/day (3-4 HD), and either Spider Climb or See Invisibility 1/day (5-6 HD). Plus all the standard Half-Fiend resistances and immunities. Two natural slam attacks that add 1.5x Str to damage.

    Half-Goristro Size Increase: Medium to Large is +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor.

    Mineral Warrior: +2 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha, +3 natural armor, burrow speed, DR 8/Adamantine.

    Lolth-Touched: +6 Str, +6 Con, fear immunity, +4 Hide and Move Silently, alignment changes to CE.

    Totals:
    Large size, +28 Str, -2 Dex, +24 Con, -4 Int, -4 Wis, -4 Cha, +10 natural armor, swim speed, burrow speed, DR 5/Cold Iron and 8/Adamantine, SR 10+HD, two Slams that deal 2d6+1-1/2 Str, spell-like abilities, and various other resistances and benefits.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by people
    "Water orc"
    "Kobold"
    "Etc"
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Earth Dwarf, Warblade//Totemist//Druidic Avenger.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Half-Goristro: +8 Str, +8 Con, +5 natural armor, DR 5/Cold Iron, SR 10+HD, Levitate 3/day (1-2 HD), Fear 1/day (3-4 HD), and either Spider Climb or See Invisibility 1/day (5-6 HD). Plus all the standard Half-Fiend resistances and immunities. Two natural slam attacks that add 1.5x Str to damage.

    Half-Goristro Size Increase: Medium to Large is +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor.
    The second set of stat increases is for Large to Huge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P
    Okay...

    Draconic (+1), Phrenic (+2), Arctic (+0), Magic Blooded (+0), Quasi-Lycanthrope (+1), Lloth Touched (+1), Earth Dwarf, Mineral Warrior (+1)
    Last edited by Dagroth; 2017-04-02 at 02:08 PM.

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    smile Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    So many options at this point. One random idea:

    The crusader (of Moradin?)
    LG Gold Dwarf[DMG 171]

    Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Cloistered Cleric +1
    Paladin 4/Crusader 2
    Crusader 3/Swordsage 2/Death Delver 1

    You end up with:
    6 + Int skill points at every level
    Full BAB
    Amazing saves + Charisma to saves
    3rd level spells and maneuvers
    Wisdom to AC in light armor
    Turn Undead, Rebuke Dragons, and Rebuke Undead as three separate pools.
    You can then use those turn attempts to power all the divine feats you want, Divine Metamagic to make your buffs last all day is highly recommended.
    Several useful immunities (immune to fear, immune to charm)
    Steely resolve 10 (effectively 10 extra HP)

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P
    A saintly half-celestial dwarf is still a dwarf, yes?

    I get it, though.

    Personally, I've always wanted to make a monk//paladin. That would probably need to be an earth dwarf.
    Last edited by Ierox; 2017-04-02 at 02:31 PM.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P
    I'm almost tempted to sig this.

    Actually, would you mind if I did?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P
    Not to mention the whole "new comer to 3.5" bit. Your first time is confusing enough with a normal character; combining two or more caster-type characters (ToB included in that) is just a recipe for confusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagroth View Post
    The second set of stat increases is for Large to Huge.
    That was for the example creature, they were putting it on a Centaur which is already large, hence the increase to huge. I was applying it to a Water Orc, so it goes from medium to large.

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    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by DEMON View Post
    I'm almost tempted to sig this.

    Actually, would you mind if I did?
    Let it be so.
    Baamaa lyh ayd so telg.

    Buu's Combat Tracker

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ganiseville GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: E6 tristalt d&d3.5

    Here is a simple but fun build that isn't complicated or overpowered. Play the Uber-paladin

    Paladin 6 // Marshal 6 // Favored Soul 6

    You have full bab, great saves, and good casting all based on charisma. Play a desert dwarf so you don't take a charisma penalty. Favored soul casting is weaker than cleric casting, but you can just pick good spells and not deal with the overwhelming options you can run into with the full cleric list. Pick good long lasting buffs, some light healing, and call it a day.

    You get a LOT of mileage out of charisma. You add it to all your saves. You can pick three minor auras (Oddly your most powerful auras) so pick cha to dex, cha to cha, and cha to int or str (an aura that adds your charisma to EVERYONE'S checks using those stats, ALL OF THEM). Your casting is charisma based.

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