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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    LA altered to -0 by popular request.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Krenshar


    Don't believe d20srd! Krenshars are actually already playable: the (cohort) bit is a typo. This places the krenshar amongst those rare few nonhumanoids that are playable by default.

    Krenshars have two magical beast hit dice. They are more dextrous, wise and charismatic than humans, but suffer in the intelligence department. Their speed is a bit on the low side for a medium quadruped, but fine compared to other PCs. Their bite and claw attacks won't be doing a lot of damage, which is bad.

    Scare isn't very good. At low levels, its supernatural use is roughly equal to a totemist with a krenshar mask bound, but past that the HD cap starts to hurt, eventually leading to its utter obsolescence. The nonmagical option is a jumbled mess (my best guess is that it gives a small intimidate bonus), and will not be discussed in detail.

    A LA is obviously unnecessary, and even +0 seems hard to justify (name one thing a totemist can't do better). Still, I'll keep it at +0: there's still some uses for this creature.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-04-07 at 11:54 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    The magical beast type might be good for some alter self shenanigans on a gishy build: krenshar 2/sorcerer 4 and then as sorcadin. Is this the cheapest way to get the type?

    Edit: It isn't. Darkmantles and stirges have 1 RHD.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by ExLibrisMortis View Post
    The magical beast type might be good for some alter self shenanigans on a gishy build: krenshar 2/sorcerer 4 and then as sorcadin. Is this the cheapest way to get the type?

    Edit: It isn't. Darkmantles and stirges have 1 RHD.
    Darkmantles have +1 LA in addition to their RHD. I guess they're still a better choice for a sorcerer, though.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-04-07 at 09:31 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    I have to admit that the Krenshar is not very powerful, as reflected in its CR (1). It does have some nice, usable stuff though : scent, track as a bonus feat, enough natural attacks to take multiattack, and as a bonus it can serve as a mount for a small PC!
    I know, I know, "it doesn't matter at high levels"... But then again, what does?
    +0 is fine by me!

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agahnim View Post
    I have to admit that the Krenshar is not very powerful, as reflected in its CR (1). It does have some nice, usable stuff though : scent, track as a bonus feat, enough natural attacks to take multiattack, and as a bonus it can serve as a mount for a small PC!
    I know, I know, "it doesn't matter at high levels"... But then again, what does?
    +0 is fine by me!
    A player riding on another player seems weird to me. I guess it does save money, though.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    +4 Dex, -4 Int, +2 Wis/Cha, track as a bonus feat, Darkvision, SCENT +4 to Hide/Move silently, a togglable +3 to bluff and +10ft movement. Oddly enough sounds like it might make a decent Ranger type. Maybe convince your DM to take (Improved) Multi-attack instead of TWF for combat style.

    Also magical Beast RHD are solid: d10 HD, Good Fort/Ref and 2 skill points/level. Sounds almost better than 2 levels of fighter. Definitely +0 LA, it's not weak enough for a -0 and while it has a solid plus overall -4 int and lack of hands hurts.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Zancloufer View Post
    +4 Dex, -4 Int, +2 Wis/Cha, track as a bonus feat, Darkvision, SCENT +4 to Hide/Move silently, a togglable +3 to bluff and +10ft movement. Oddly enough sounds like it might make a decent Ranger type. Maybe convince your DM to take (Improved) Multi-attack instead of TWF for combat style.

    Also magical Beast RHD are solid: d10 HD, Good Fort/Ref and 2 skill points/level. Sounds almost better than 2 levels of fighter. Definitely +0 LA, it's not weak enough for a -0 and while it has a solid plus overall -4 int and lack of hands hurts.
    (Improved) Rapidstrike would probably be more useful. Gives you ~7 attacks total and getting them as bonus feats would help with the massive BAB requirement on them. Improved Multiattack is really easy to pickup anyway.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    A player riding on another player seems weird to me. I guess it does save money, though.
    I dunno, I do this every time I play a shapeshifter at low to midlevels. Saves the party some time carting around the tin can, and looks snazzy with your party face.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    A player riding on another player seems weird to me. I guess it does save money, though.
    It's way less weird than the actual mount rules.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Hrm... you know, I think part of the reason that monsters suck as PCs is that they were designed to be encountered at their CR, so there was no need to consider how good they'd be 5 levels later or something like that.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Kuo-Toa


    Fishmen!

    Kuo-toa, another of these elusive non-SRD monsters. They're 2 HD monstrous humanoids, which is pretty good. Their strength, constitution, intelligence, and wisdom are all above average, their charisma a bit below. They also get Alertness as a bonus feat.

    Kuo-toa have a variety of special attacks, most of them incomprehensible. Lightning Bolt is both poorly-written and horrible, Pincer Staff either simply describes an exotic weapon or grants certain characters a permanent weapon that gets replaced if it leaves their possession, and Adhesive is only usable for characters with subpar fighting styles and some money to spend.

    Slippery is a bit better: webs are common low-level obstacles or attacks, and Keen Sight is perhaps one of the only ways to nonmagically spot ethereal stuff. Light Blindness is annoying, though.

    What class should a kuo-toa take, I wonder? The developers seem to really want them to become clerics, but with two RHD that's less than optimal. As melee characters they are reasonable, but additional LA don't seem necessary to balance them out. +0 LA.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    I think +0 is fine. Having to worship a deity named Blibdoolpoolp is punishment enough.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    The krenshar is weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    They are more dextrous, wise and charismatic than humans...
    It's a creature best known for taking the skin off its face.

    Scare isn't very good. At low levels, its supernatural use is roughly equal to a totemist with a krenshar mask bound, but past that the HD cap starts to hurt, eventually leading to its utter obsolescence...
    Fake krenshars are more effective than real krenshars.


    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Hrm... you know, I think part of the reason that monsters suck as PCs is that they were designed to be encountered at their CR, so there was no need to consider how good they'd be 5 levels later or something like that.
    That part makes sense. What doesn't make sense is how WotC dealt with it.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    It's a creature best known for taking the skin off its face.
    Yet another unrealistic standard of beauty.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    It's a creature best known for taking the skin off its face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Yet another unrealistic standard of beauty.
    Exfoliation really isn't so bad.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Lamia


    Fun fact: lamias aren't actually proficient with daggers. I guess that explains why this one is wielding them two-handed.

    Lamias have nine magical beast RHD, which give them reachless Large size. They have +8 strength and +2 to +4 to all other stats.

    In addition to any weapons they pick up, lamias can attack with weak claws and a wisdom-reducing touch. The latter is notable for being drain, not damage, but it doesn't get iteratives and will require multiple applications to reduce even weak-willed targets to unconsciousness.

    Finally, the SLAs. They're all illusions or enchantments, none of them out of reach for a caster of this level. Disguise Self is a joke: how many quadrupeds with humanoid upper bodies are there for a lamia to appear as? I can think of centaurs, wemics and maybe dracotaurs.

    To be honest, I feel like lamias deserves a -0 LA. Its CR is a whopping three points lower than its ECL, its damage output is low for a ECL 9 creature, and its SLAs are outclassed. -0 for now, feedback is welcome.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    I think that there is a centauroid devil that serves as heavy cavalry in the Blood Wars. Don't remember what it's called or which book it's in ... FC2 maybe?
    But that's not particularly useful.


    With a forgiving DM, you might be allowed to bend the body type limitation on Disguise Self a little and look like a normal horse or something ... but again, that's not particularly useful.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by javcs View Post
    I think that there is a centauroid devil that serves as heavy cavalry in the Blood Wars. Don't remember what it's called or which book it's in ... FC2 maybe?
    But that's not particularly useful.
    There is. Is it the narzugon? I think that's in Manual of the Planes.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    All I can say is that if my elbow were bent like that front leg, I'd have the same look on my face and LA.

    Do Lamias have intentionally weird limbs like rakshashas?
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    All I can say is that if my elbow were bent like that front leg, I'd have the same look on my face and LA.

    Do Lamias have intentionally weird limbs like rakshashas?
    I don't believe they do.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Fun fact: lamias aren't actually proficient with daggers. I guess that explains why this one is wielding them two-handed.
    WotC Artist: "Wait, D&D lamias are half-lion?"
    WotC Writer: "Yeah. They've always been like that."
    WotC Artist: "Oh. Sh*t. Well, uh, gimme a minute...there! I drew this lion-taur guy with a sword in my free time a while back. Will this do?"
    WotC Writer: "Lamias use daggers...can you shorten the blade a bit?"
    WotC Artist: "Wouldn't that look silly?"
    WorC Writer: "Not as silly as putting a snake-lady next to a creature with claw attacks."

    Disguise Self is a joke: how many quadrupeds with humanoid upper bodies are there for a lamia to appear as? I can think of centaurs, wemics and maybe dracotaurs.
    I assume the designers intended, with their usual level of forethought, for lamias to be able to take on the appearance of normal humanoids. Some of their mythological inspirations were seductresses, after all. (Then again, they didn't have lion bodies, so who knows?)



    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    All I can say is that if my elbow were bent like that front leg, I'd have the same look on my face and LA.
    It looks like they wanted the leg to be extended, but didn't look up how lions actually run.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Yeesh. The blade is supposed to be in forced perspective, it's likely supposed to be a scimitar, we're just seeing the blade receded into the distance.

    On the other hand, the artwork.. I see what they did, and they're a *bad* artist for doing it.. They used a horse as the model for the lion-body's running pose (since most photographers getting *that* angle on a running lion wouldn't be able to *publish* the photo, being eaten..) It's supposed to be the 'knee' of the front leg (horse term, corresponding to the wrist), but they didn't get the proportions right. That little bump in the other foreleg is a direct translation of the knee/wrist of the horse's leg. But lions have very different portions, they're not distance runners like horses or even cheetahs, the wrist is 5/6ths of the way down the leg rather than halfway like a horse. Look at how skimpy the hind legs look, heel to paw, same deal.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWarlock View Post
    Yeesh. The blade is supposed to be in forced perspective, it's likely supposed to be a scimitar, we're just seeing the blade receded into the distance.
    Except the lamia's statblock says they use daggers, and that blade looks pretty dagger-like to me.

    ...Now that I look at it again, where's that guy's left hand? The haft doesn't seem big enough to completely conceal it, and from the look of his other hand his fingers should be visible.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    I'm pretty sure it's arms fuse at the wrist and it actually only has one hand.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Except the lamia's statblock says they use daggers, and that blade looks pretty dagger-like to me.
    Yeah, unfortunately, I think whoever finalized the statblock made the same mistake you guys are, misinterpreting the forced angle as a too-short blade. That handle totally reads scimitar, whereas if it was a dagger, it would be fairly awkward to use. (I know curved daggers like that exist, but I think it's far more likely to be a misinterpretation of the art.) While they often go statblock->artwork, occasionally they do make revisions for different situations. This was likely statblock->artwork->statblock. Nobody claims WotC was perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    ...Now that I look at it again, where's that guy's left hand? The haft doesn't seem big enough to completely conceal it, and from the look of his other hand his fingers should be visible.
    <singsong>Not if it's in forced perspective...</singsong>

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    *snap* I've got it! The lamia is using disguise self to distract us with anomalies in its art! It might have an LA of -0, but that didn't stop it from fooling every one of us! Be on your guard!
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    You know i prefer snake lady with la then this excuse of a wizard experiment as lamia
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Now that I look at it again, where's that guy's left hand? The haft doesn't seem big enough to completely conceal it, and from the look of his other hand his fingers should be visible.
    Quote Originally Posted by HisHighestMinio View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's arms fuse at the wrist and it actually only has one hand.
    Clearly, it is a very poorly-optimised lamia sorcerer using Fuse Arms.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HisHighestMinio View Post
    Well, my picture would be far worse, so I can't complain too much.
    Except that you aren't asking to be paid for that quality of picture.
    And if you are, can you share your networking secrets?
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

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