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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    ...I've heard about Hexer a lot, but just what is it?
    Hexer is a decently strong PrC with painful entry requirements, including Knowledge (Arcana) 10, "Survival" (technically Wilderness Lore) 10, lightning bolt as a divine spell, and race "Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll" making it very difficult to get into although the hexes are cool and it simply plucks a spell off the sorcerer/wizard list 5 times to improve your base classes list. It was specifically designed to be entered by adepts although there are other ways in.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    Hexer is a decently strong PrC with painful entry requirements, including Knowledge (Arcana) 10, "Survival" (technically Wilderness Lore) 10, lightning bolt as a divine spell, and race "Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll" making it very difficult to get into although the hexes are cool and it simply plucks a spell off the sorcerer/wizard list 5 times to improve your base classes list. It was specifically designed to be entered by adepts although there are other ways in.
    Erm... so how strong is an Adept/Hexer?
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Erm... so how strong is an Adept/Hexer?
    Dramatically stronger than an adept, but otherwise still blech. Adept can only do so much. The hexes have a 30 foot range but the first two are insanely difficult to remove: only by limited wish, wish, miracle, break enchantment, or remove curse. Losing your Dex to AC for that long can be painful. Most of the power comes from combining a divine list with choice tidbits from the sorcerer/wizard list. I guess a warmage with Southern Magician can get some solid mileage out of that? The biggest use I see if for shugenja which draws heavily off of the arcane list, but if you stagger hexer levels you can grab a ninth and add it to your class list (and then pick it upon level up).

    Edit: I would be remiss to point that, while most of the hexes are "mind-influencing" and thus immunity is easily acquired, the sicken hex is just necromantic and the save DC's scale insanely if you are Wisdom SAD (10+Hexer level+Wis Mod). Hitting a DC 30+ is easy and at least can frustrate melees who come into range.
    Last edited by ZamielVanWeber; 2017-04-23 at 03:36 AM.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    Edit: I would be remiss to point that, while most of the hexes are "mind-influencing" and thus immunity is easily acquired, the sicken hex is just necromantic and the save DC's scale insanely if you are Wisdom SAD (10+Hexer level+Wis Mod). Hitting a DC 30+ is easy and at least can frustrate melees who come into range.
    Sicken is not very good at all. Do you mean nauseate?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Sicken is not very good at all. Do you mean nauseate?
    It's called the sicken hex, but its actual effects are far better than Sickened.

    Sicken Hex (Sp): At 3rd level, the hexer can use his gaze attack to inflict a debilitating illness. This ability functions like the hex ability (above), except that the target must make a Fortitude save instead of a Will save to resist, and the effect is as described below. A sicken hex requires one daily use of the character's hex ability.
    A target who fails the save is overcome with pain and fever, which causes him or her to move at one-half normal speed, lose any Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and suffer a 2 circumstance penalty on attack rolls. These effects are permanent until removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. A sicken hex is a necromancy effect that cannot be dispelled.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Hmm... about what power level are Adept/Hexers? What about the... what was the name of that class again? Shu something? What if you enter with that?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Well the easiest way to get into Hexer is with the Arcane Disciple from Dragon Magazine. That'll just add lightning bolt to your Cleric list and there you go.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Well the easiest way to get into Hexer is with the Arcane Disciple from Dragon Magazine. That'll just add lightning bolt to your Cleric list and there you go.
    Erm... what does that feat do?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Erm... what does that feat do?
    It's not a feat, it's a variant Cleric from Dragon #311 that loses domains and turning in exchange for Wizard bonus feats and adding Sor/Wiz spells to their class list, among other things.

    Of course the Locathah's ability to be a Hexer is not very impressive when Kuo-Toa is the same ECL and, like, obviously better, right?

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Or you could be a goblin or something. No RHD needed.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Or you could be a goblin or something. No RHD needed.
    Or an orc, or a kobold, or a tibbit...
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Or an orc, or a kobold, or a tibbit...
    Kobold might be the most optimal *cough*Dragonwrought*cough*.

    But seriously, even vanilla Kobold has plenty of uses.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Lycanthrope


    Another template, another iconic monster. Right now, lycanthropy are kind of suboptimal, as every one of them will be eating +2 or +3 LA in addition to the (bad) animal HD they'll get.

    Lycanthropes gain a number of animal-independent bonuses, such as +2 wisdom, scent, low-light vision, some natural armor, Iron Will for free, and DR/silver. This on its own seems to be a strong +1 LA or weak +2.

    The animal form adds to this Lycanthropic Empathy, the animal's special attacks and qualities, the animal's feats, and possible physical ability score adjustments/size changes in hybrid or animal form. This is counterbalanced by the lycanthrope getting all of the animal's HD as well.

    Note that for melee combat, almost all PCs will be getting RHD. The only medium-or-bigger animal I could find without multiple hit dice was the baboon: something that doesn't seem too powerful.

    Honestly, I think +1 LA is fine for natural lycanthropes. They'll all have at least two HD of non-great types: they don't need a giant LA worsening their situation.

    Afflicted lycans, while possibly able to get away with less HD, also suffer a number of drawbacks naturals don't have. +1 LA works there as well.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-04-28 at 02:12 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Hmm... about what power level are Adept/Hexers? What about the... what was the name of that class again? Shu something? What if you enter with that?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Socksy View Post
    Shugenja? vjsdlfkjs
    Yes that one. Thanks.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Socksy View Post
    Shugenja? vjsdlfkjs
    You know we're not allowed to post links to the Forbidden Site or its mirrors?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post

    Note that there is some uncertainty with regards to lycanthropes whose base animals have less than 1 HD (such as wereravens or werecats). I'll be assuming this fractional HD can be replaced with a class level, just as a 1 HD creature could.
    A lycanthrope will always end up with at least one animal HD, since you can't replace both the base creature's humanoid/giant HD and the animal's HD.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    A lycanthrope will always end up with at least one animal HD, since you can't replace both the base creature's humanoid/giant HD and the animal's HD.
    Well...arguably, gnomes and orcs and kobolds and the like don't have racial HD, just a level of warrior. So you can probably get away with that.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    A lycanthrope will always end up with at least one animal HD, since you can't replace both the base creature's humanoid/giant HD and the animal's HD.
    Sadly, this is true. You're getting a minimum of 1 crappy HD plus LA.


    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Well...arguably, gnomes and orcs and kobolds and the like don't have racial HD, just a level of warrior. So you can probably get away with that.
    Nope, their RHD has already been replaced by the Warrior level.

    It's possible that some of them would have a fractional RHD, though, were they to have an amount of RHD assigned to them, which might present an interesting interaction with the fractional animal RHD, but that's purely speculative, as there are no RHD numbers for them.




    The DR/Silver is only in Animal/Hybrid form. Which is ... unfortunate ... especially since it looks like Hybrids don't get to use the armor of their humanoid form.



    Afflicted only need to test to resist changing for loosing 25% of their HP, and each additional 25% lost. And it is skill points ... but seriously, anyone who gets afflicted should put all the skill points they can from their new animal HD into Control Shape.




    Honestly, though, I'm not sure the advantages of a Natural are worth a full +1 LA over the Afflicted. Seriously - Naturals only get three things over the Afflicted - an additional 5 DR/Silver when in Animal or Hybrid form, no need for the Control Shape skill, and the ability to infect others with Lycanthropy.
    Afflicted might be worth a +1 ... but Natural isn't really worth a full +2.


    Y'know, this might be one time where tying the LA to the RHD (of the base animal) might be reasonable. A higher RHD animal isn't really worth all those HD.

    Is a 1 animal HD lycanthrope really worth 2 full levels? Maybe it's only really worth 1.5 levels, but this is one case where we round up in D&D.
    Is a 2 animal HD lycanthrope really worth 3 full levels? It might be worth a bit more than 2, depending on the animal in question, but probably not a full 3, but again, this is where we'd round up.
    Is a 3 animal HD lycanthrope really worth 4 full levels? Unlikely, IMO, but with right animal for the right build in the right circumstances, maybe 3.
    Is a 4 animal HD lycanthrope really worth 5 full levels? I doubt it.
    Is a 5 animal HD lycanthrope really worth 6 full levels? I don't think so.

    I'd say something like a net adjustment of RHD+LA of 2 or 3, or RHD, whichever is higher. Thus, if RHD is greater than or equal to whatever we think the net adjustment should be, it's an LA of 0, or -0, really.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Sadly, this is true. You're getting a minimum of 1 crappy HD plus LA.
    Yeah, look at the wererat, based on a 1 RHD Dire Rat

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    The fact that they are called "lycanthrope" instead of "were-creature" automatically earns them a +20 LA as far as I'm concerned. Werewolves get a pass on this.

    Because lycanthrope means wolf-man in latin.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Fractions are rounded down, so fractional HD are rounded to zero.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Fractions are rounded down, so fractional HD are rounded to zero.
    Might be a bit hard to justify. If I'm not reading this wrong, you're saying regular cats have 0 HD, because their fractional HD gets rounded down, right?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Might be a bit hard to justify. If I'm not reading this wrong, you're saying regular cats have 0 HD, because their fractional HD gets rounded down, right?
    You only round when you're performing a calculation (addition, in this case). And you always round down unless otherwise stated.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    You only round when you're performing a calculation (addition, in this case). And you always round down unless otherwise stated.
    So even the worst necromancer could control unlimited undead cats?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    So even the worst necromancer could control unlimited undead cats?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    You only round when you're performing a calculation (addition, in this case). And you always round down unless otherwise stated.
    As I recall, you're assumed to round in whichever way penalises you. Thus you round down for enemies saving against your spells and round up for you taking half damage etc.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    As I recall, you're assumed to round in whichever way penalises you. Thus you round down for enemies saving against your spells and round up for you taking half damage etc.
    In D&D 3e, you round down unless a specific instance of rounding explicitly says otherwise. Whether it's good or bad for you.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Hmm. I'm not sure what I'm thinking of instead, then.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    So even the worst necromancer could control unlimited undead cats?
    No, just twice as many undead cats as they could 1 HD skeletons. It's only rounded for the purpose of calculating something, which you're not doing.

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