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  1. - Top - End - #871
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Regional feats generally have their prerequisites explained as being something culturally or environmentally unique about the region. If you can write your backstory to match the cultural or environmental characteristics, it is reasonable to ask your DM for the feat, especially if the region in question is not present in the campaign setting.

    What is important to avoid is combining regional feats that are incompatible due to being from different regions. It isn't NECESSARILY broken, as a lot of regional feats are actually quite lame, but if you do find a broken combination, you're actively cheating by even the most generous stretching of the RAW, which is notable given the common practice of ignoring regional requirements.

  2. - Top - End - #872
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Are we really still debating the Ogre Mage? Even after Inevitability said he wouldn't change it?

    I was going through the PHB dieties the other day and I recognized your profile picture, Inevitability. Between that and the name change, you got a lot more LN.
    My username should have been HisHighestMinion, with an N.
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  3. - Top - End - #873
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by HisHighestMinio View Post
    I was going through the PHB dieties the other day and I recognized your profile picture, Inevitability. Between that and the name change, you got a lot more LN.
    Nothing wrong with that, right? I was honestly just looking around for something fitting my new name (a dire stirge, nice as it may be, is kind of weird without the appropriate name) and stumbled upon this picture. Also, Wee Jas is simply a very interesting deity.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  4. - Top - End - #874
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Nope. You just mentioned LN in your sig and I figured with the other stuff you were an LN fan.
    My username should have been HisHighestMinion, with an N.
    15 is an unusual character limit.

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  5. - Top - End - #875
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Also, Wee Jas is simply a very interesting deity.
    She really is.

    Unlike Orc LA, which is pretty much settled.

  6. - Top - End - #876
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Otyugh


    I get it, people want an update. Well, here you go.

    Otyughs are yet another grappling aberration. They've got 6 HD (ouch), and are Large size. This comes with reach, which is increased even more for tentacle attacks (of which they have two, in addition to a bite that should be holding a mouthpick weapon).

    The chassis doesn't improve from there, though. The stat array is something I expect of a default PC race rather than a 6 HD monster (11 strength, seriously?), and improved grab and constrict get a lot less sexy when you realize Bob the half-orc fighter is literally a better grappler than the otyugh, and that's before creating an actually competent build.

    Disease is weak even amongst disease abilities, which is saying something.

    Basically, otyughs are slow, weak beasts with little to no useful abilities. They could be made into a subpar grappler, but it won't be worth the six levels one sacrifices to do it. -0 LA.

    Giant owls are next: it's not like I rated basically the same monster months ago already.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-06-27 at 04:48 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #877
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    15 ft. reach: Nice.

    Tentacle/Tentacle/Bite: Decent.

    20 ft. movement: Yuck.

    Ability scores: Yuck.

    Improved Grab + Constrict but with only 3/4 BAB and no bonus to Str: Yuck.

    Disease: Ignore.

    Scent: Nice, but not nice enough.

    I guess you could do something with Swordsage (using Wisdom since it's the only non-dump mental stat), and two levels would give you (6/2)+2 = IL 5, so you'd get 3rd level maneuvers at 8 HD, only 3 behind a halfling with a spiked chain. But building it out, it seems inferior in nearly every way to a halfling with a spiked chain, except that it gets Scent and another +5 ft. reach.

    Verdict: -0

  8. - Top - End - #878
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Where is the oft-mentioned mouth/toothpick to be found?
    Last edited by Caelestion; 2017-06-27 at 05:13 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #879
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Where is the oft-mentioned mouth/toothpick to be found?
    Probably Savage Species.
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  10. - Top - End - #880
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Where is the oft-mentioned mouth/toothpick to be found?
    Lords of Madness, Page 46. It's the Beholder section.

  11. - Top - End - #881
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Unsurprisingly, Otyughs are crap. What did you expect with something that has a grunt of disgust in its name? Ugh.
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  12. - Top - End - #882
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by flare'90 View Post
    Lords of Madness, Page 46. It's the Beholder section.
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  13. - Top - End - #883
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    15 ft. reach: Nice.

    Tentacle/Tentacle/Bite: Decent.

    20 ft. movement: Yuck.

    Ability scores: Yuck.

    Improved Grab + Constrict but with only 3/4 BAB and no bonus to Str: Yuck.

    Disease: Ignore.

    Scent: Nice, but not nice enough.

    I guess you could do something with Swordsage (using Wisdom since it's the only non-dump mental stat), and two levels would give you (6/2)+2 = IL 5, so you'd get 3rd level maneuvers at 8 HD, only 3 behind a halfling with a spiked chain. But building it out, it seems inferior in nearly every way to a halfling with a spiked chain, except that it gets Scent and another +5 ft. reach.

    Verdict: -0
    Has to be said, that his +8 NA is pretty decent. (Still -0)
    Last edited by Daedroth; 2017-06-27 at 06:27 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #884
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Yeah that is pretty disappointing. I agree with the -0

  15. - Top - End - #885
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Creature that looks like an artist's drug trip has a statblock that the writers clearly phoned in.

    Why am I not surprised?

  16. - Top - End - #886
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedroth View Post
    Has to be said, that his +8 NA is pretty decent. (Still -0)
    Yeah that is legit.

    Unfortunately with the weird body shape, any DM would be within her rights to screw you over on armor.

    So... unarmed variant Swordsage, I guess? No armor necessary. It could be okay, but the Int penalty will hurt you on stuff that wants skill points (Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, Tiger Claw), and you don't have claws so you're kinda screwed for Discipline weapons, too.

  17. - Top - End - #887
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    I'm sorry to drag on the point and flog a dead horse, but one last lot of replies then I'm done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Regional feats generally have their prerequisites explained as being something culturally or environmentally unique about the region. If you can write your backstory to match the cultural or environmental characteristics, it is reasonable to ask your DM for the feat, especially if the region in question is not present in the campaign setting.

    What is important to avoid is combining regional feats that are incompatible due to being from different regions. It isn't NECESSARILY broken, as a lot of regional feats are actually quite lame, but if you do find a broken combination, you're actively cheating by even the most generous stretching of the RAW, which is notable given the common practice of ignoring regional requirements.
    That's pretty much my stance. Reqs are reqs. No problem if people want to ignore them at their table. Same as many (most) tables ignore multiclassing XP penalties. But it is house ruling, and house rules are not especially helpful in an endeavour like this, at least IMHO.

    The only reason I mentioned it in the first place was because someone brought up a feat, half of whose reqs are regional, as a justification point for Regeneration being an easy ability to obtain. Ignoring fully half of the written reqs for a feat does not give a true indication of the "cost" of a feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    <snip>
    Thank you for your polite disagreement with my point of view.

    I'm really sorry for derailing the thread everyone, and I'll try to avoid it again next time. Some replies managed to get under my skin, so I kept responding against my better judgement.



    As a DM, every time I use an Otyugh as a monster, it never fails to surprise me for a large creature whose schtick is based on grappling, just how very craptacular their physical stats are. I often slap templates on them just so that they can do their job.

    • 6 not that good RHD; Con +2, Int -6, Wis +2, Cha -4. Wow, just, wow. Truly awful for a melee based creature. Extra reach, three natural attacks, decent natural AC bonus. Still, this is a truly horrible chassis for a melee/grappling based character.
    • Disease that won't have any effect until days later - nope; scent is nice, but since it can be picked up with a first level stance - meh; improved grab - a great ability, if it weren't on such an awful, awful base creature.

    I can't vote for anything other than LA -0.

  18. - Top - End - #888
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    The stat array is something I expect of a default PC race rather than a 6 HD monster (11 strength, seriously?)...
    That's an insult to PC races. They're unusually dumb and crude dwarves with a little bonus Wisdom. And don't get me started on how silly that 11 Strength is when you compare it to other Large monsters...
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    Negative LA Assignment Thread
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  19. - Top - End - #889
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    A large creature with +0 strength is essentially operating at a penalty. MMI page 296 specifies that a typical strength score for a Large creature is in the 18-27 range. Page 291 specifies that a size increase from Medium to Large carries a +8 increase in strength with it. As it is, cows are stronger than otyugh (assuming bison stats with -4 str). Agreed with -0; otyugh are just that terrible.
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  20. - Top - End - #890

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    I guess it makes sense why they have a hole named after them then. That's where they belong.

  21. - Top - End - #891
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Giant Owl


    Remember the giant eagle? The owl's nearly the same monster, but slightly slower, with superior low-light vision and a bonus to Listen checks in exchange for evasion and some other class skills.

    Even though this is a nerf in almost all cases, I don't think a different LA is needed here. The owl is still a big, strong, flying creature with good stats, after all. +1 LA.

    Owlbears are next!
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-06-28 at 11:06 AM.
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  22. - Top - End - #892
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Eagles have Evasion and +10 ft. fly speed.

    Owls have +8 Listen and +8 fly casual move silently when flying.

    Seems fair to me. Listen is great.

    Verdict: +1 (just like Eagle).
    Last edited by Nifft; 2017-06-28 at 11:21 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #893
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Yeah that is legit.

    Unfortunately with the weird body shape, any DM would be within her rights to screw you over on armor.

    So... unarmed variant Swordsage, I guess? No armor necessary. It could be okay, but the Int penalty will hurt you on stuff that wants skill points (Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, Tiger Claw), and you don't have claws so you're kinda screwed for Discipline weapons, too.
    I'm pretty sure the DM is kinda obligated to screw you over on armor.

    That's something that we haven't talked about much. A lot of monsters have a default state of "screwed" when it comes to armor.


    Edit: LA +1 for the Giant Owl seems fair.
    Last edited by javcs; 2017-06-28 at 11:34 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #894
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    +1 LA owl seems deece.
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  25. - Top - End - #895

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Haven't had much of a discussion about the LA's in a while.

  26. - Top - End - #896
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Haven't had much of a discussion about the LA's in a while.
    Well, it's a nice change of pace after the ogre mage and nymph (and to a lesser extent, the ogre).

    Half a year ago it was really bad: first dinosaurs, then dire animals followed by dragons, and finally elementals to top it all off. 90% of the monsters in that section must've gotten LAs of -0, with barely anyone contesting it.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-06-28 at 01:05 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #897
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    why does WotC give monsters so many bad hit die?
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  28. - Top - End - #898
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Gary View Post
    why does WotC give monsters so many bad hit die?
    Same reason so many broken M:tG cards have been released. Same reason there's no class balance to speak of in D&D.

    WotC wouldn't know balance if it landed on their heads.

  29. - Top - End - #899

    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Because Wotc doesn't want PCs to play monsters is my guess. Even ignoring the huge balance issues that is a core art of the game. I really think Wotc wanted PCs to be PCs and monsters to be monsters.

    Definitely come a be challenging THAT in my game down the line.
    Last edited by The Blade Wolf; 2017-06-28 at 03:06 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #900
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Gary View Post
    why does WotC give monsters so many bad hit die?
    Because the primary function of a monster is as an antagonist, which the PCs are probably supposed to defeat.

    Using monsters as PCs is a secondary and far less common use for the monsters, because there are far fewer PCs than monsters.

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