Results 361 to 390 of 1477
-
2017-05-25, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
@Thurbane: Well, you can bullrush as a charge action, and powerful charge is explicitly an add-on to an existing charge, so RAW it appears to work-you can gore someone as you smush them into a wall.
Minotaur is OK as a base for a bruiser, since Monstrous Humanoid HD is merely bad instead of terrible-I would lean towards LA+1 at my table, since that is a decent amount of meat on the bone for a beatstick.Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2017-05-25 at 06:19 PM.
-
2017-05-25, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Minotaur is pretty much what a melee bruiser needs to be; you even qualify for War Hulk straight out of the box. That said, starting at ECL 7 would mean competing with polymorph, 24 hour Wild Shape, and every other 4th-level spell. ECL 6 at least gets you that initiator level that gives you an edge. In other words: starting a melee character at the level where casters are definitely way ahead is not worth a level adjustment.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
-
2017-05-26, 02:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- Paris
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
I remember me discovering the srd at my very beginnings in D&D and finding the Minotaur so OP. +8 to Strength!!!
Now, I'd favor LA +1 though. I'd clearly take a Minotaur/Barbarian 1 over a Barbarian 5/ Fighter 2.
Let's take a Half-Orc Barbarian to compare.
-Same Darkvision
-Same -2 to Cha
-12 + 2d10 +4d12 of HPs vs 8 + 5d8 + 1d12 + 14 for the +4 Constitution of the Minotaur: 49 vs 51.
-The Half-Orc Barbarian can rage 2/day againts 1/day for the Minotaur only.
-The Half-Orc has -2 Int only, and a total of 26 skill points, vs 19 for the Minotaur (applying their malus to a starting Int of 10)
-The Half-Orc has traded Trap Sense for the more useful Trapkiller ACF; the Minotaur has nothing in this regard.
-The Half-Orc has two more feats, one of those to take the Orc or Half-Orc exclusive and useful Headlong Rush.
-The Half-Orc has tower shield and heavy armor proficiency.
But:
-The Minotaur has +8 Strength vs +2 for the Half-Orc. Accounting for Large size that's a net +3 to hit, and a +6 to damage with a two-handed weapon.
-The Minotaur has +5 NA, effectively +4 because of Large size. That seems more useful than the DR 2/- of the Half-Orc.
-The Minotaur has Natural Cunning, which beats Improved Uncanny Dodge.
-The Minotaur has a natural weapon that does not prevent the use of two hands.
-The Minotaur has an increased reach.
-The Minotaur deals damage as a Large Creature
-The Minotaur gets a +4 size bonus to Intimidate, which reduce the effect of the lack of skill pointd to invest in.
-The Minotaur gets Scent, which not only also reduces the effect of less skill points in Survival, but is a somewhat useful detection mode in its own right.
-The Minotaur gets Powerful Charge.
-The Minotaur gets a +4 size bonus to Bull Rushes.VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer
And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
-
2017-05-26, 03:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
I always thought that half-orcs were a pretty feeble race in 3.5 - what about comparing the minotaur to a dwarf barbarian?
-
2017-05-26, 04:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Right behind you
- Gender
-
2017-05-26, 05:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2016
- Location
- Canterlot, Equestria
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Natural cunning is absolutely not better than improved uncanny dodge. Natural cunning just makes you immune to being flat-footed. Improved uncanny dodge does almost the same thing and also makes you immune to flanking.
The best things that the minotaur gets are large size and powerful charge. The rest is either minor or easily obtainable by other methods. Those two are nifty, but you're giving up six class levels to give them. I think +0 is perfectly acceptable.
You know, I just realized that the half-minotaur template is significantly better than a real minotaur, even if you homebrew it to +2 LA.Last edited by Celestia; 2017-05-26 at 07:43 AM.
Princess Celestia's Homebrew Corner
Old classes, new classes, and more!
Thanks to AsteriskAmp for the avatar!
-
2017-05-26, 05:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
I always thought that half-orcs were a pretty feeble race in 3.5 - what about comparing the minotaur to a dwarf barbarian?
And as remetagross's nice list shows us, then a Minotaur has a very long list of advantages that puts it ahead of any PHB race when it comes to smashing faces.
Large size and a natural strenght bonus is really hard to compete with, and if you have a human fighter and a minotaur fighter in the same party, then the Minotaur will overshadow the human to a degree where its no longer funny.
So i actually dont think the original ECL of +2 were that unfair, especially not in games without ToB.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
-
2017-05-26, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-05-26, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Fighter is tier 5, barbarian is tier 4. Anyhow...
Yes, the minotaur should not be balanced as tier 1. If it was, it'd be LA -0 easily (barring Ur-Priest). I'm just asking myself: how badly would this be blown out of the water? Can it compete with t2? No. Can it compete with t3? Not really. (High?) Tier 4 is where it lands, which is LA +0 territory for a bruiser.Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
-
2017-05-26, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-05-26, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Gotta agree with Remetagross and go for +1.
This race is a frontliner's wet dream. It has Large size, hefty natural armor (yes, +5 is a lot, especially considering how the amulet of natural armor is always listed as one of the "big 6"), really good stats, and a "free" (look Ma, no hands!) natural gore attack.
Compared to a barbarian, the stat increases are better than a permanent rage - and you can take barbarian levels on top of that! The cunning roughly makes up for uncanny dodge. As for decreased skill points due to low Int, they are more than made up for by the various skill-related powers of a minotaur : darkvision, scent, the ability to never ever get lost (in a real game, this comes up far more often than hypothetical arena fights against level 20 T1 casters), a size bonus to intimidate, and speaking Giant for free.
-
2017-05-26, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Minotaur is a +0.
Sure, it's good for a beatstick/bruiser build, but that's pretty much all it can do.
-4 Int, -2 Cha, and 6 RHD means you're not going to be a good caster. You're not going to be a good skillmonkey.
The Minotaur should probably be compared to an ubercharger type build. Because charging is what you can do as a minotaur.
Being a melee bruiser/ubercharger is useful .. but it's fairly narrow in application. Having a native aptitude for it, and being roughly on par with a melee bruiser/ubercharger of your RHD does not warrant a LA greater than +0, in my opinion.
CR is generally iffy, but a lot of the "classic" beatstick/melee monsters, especially larger ones, have more RHD than their CR and abilities warrant, just so that they've got a lot of HP.
The RAW generally overvalues raw melee/physical capability a fairly significant amount.
-
2017-05-26, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
No cha penalty means it can go Cleric, though the 6 lost levels hurt severely. Still, divine power and righteous might, when you can get them, would be pretty impressive added to its extant chassis.
That said, War Hulk plays better with its natural proclivities.
-
2017-05-26, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Speaking Giant for free is an advantage? That's the first I've heard of someone's native language being considered a special bonus over someone with a different native language.
-
2017-05-26, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- Paris
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Ah, right, I was working from memory. And Thurbane, about the dip, that is because I figured that Barbarian 7 is not a very realistic build, and, at any rate, weaker than Barbarian 5/ Fighter 2. So comparing with the more powerful build was supposed a fortiori to be worth a comparison with the weaker, more logical build.
VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer
And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
-
2017-05-26, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Well duh. Of course it's an advantage, it's FREE on top of Common. I'm not saying it's much, I'm saying it's something (I was listing skill-related advantages). Besides, Giant is a pretty good free language. It's a relatively common language among monsters. Giants are often social creatures living in tribes, and IIRC they don't always speak Common (and even when they do, it's always nice to be able to address them in their native language). Being relatively close to humanoids, giant-speaking creatures can often be reasoned with. All in all, a Minotaur character could make a good impression to any giant-speaking creature by displaying a feat of strength and speaking their language.
-
2017-05-26, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
- Location
- NC, USA
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
im in favor of LA+0, mainly because how many RHD it has.
which do you think is better, a 7th level druid (24hr wild shape, 4th level spells) or a minotaur, with no class levels. Case closed
-
2017-05-26, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- Paris
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
I really don't think that is a fair comparison. By that line of reasoning, we would not give any LA to just about any monster without racial casting. What seems more just is to compare the Minotaur to a PC that fills the same role but with a LA +0 race, in that case, a charger/frontliner.
VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer
And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
-
2017-05-26, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
-
2017-05-26, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Comparing to a charger like orc barbarian 1/[crusader or warblade 6] gets very similar results. The orc may be behind 4 points of strength, but the maneuvers, bonus feat/steely resolve etc. are really useful.
I think the comparison is a little harder for bruisers than for casters. Spells are easy: you determine the highest spell level you have access to (can regularly use, anyway, those 1/year wishes don't count), and that's your approximate power level. Bruisers scale linearly, so the difference between a 16 HD fighter and 17 HD fighter is very small.
Incidentally, that's another good reason to assign minotaurs LA +0: they may be strongish at ECL 6, but they sure won't be at ECL 16.Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2017-05-26 at 05:49 PM.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
-
2017-05-26, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-05-26, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
- Location
- NC, USA
- Gender
-
2017-05-26, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Depending on your cheese level, a well built Dragonborn Water Orc Barbarian with the right ACFs and feats would fairly easily beat a stock Minotaur at ECL 6.
I'm not exactly an op-guru, so I can't fill in the specifics.
The only customization options the Minotaur really has is feat, skill and gear selection; and bear in mind the Barbarian 6 will have the same options plus more. Something as simple as a Potion of Enlarge Person will cancel out the size advantage of the Minotaur, and rage closes the gap in STR bonuses.Last edited by Thurbane; 2017-05-26 at 07:31 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-05-26, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
When considering how good an option is, we need to compare it against similar things. I believe Minotaur should be LA 0-, because it competes with the Half-minotaur template, which blows Minotaur out of the water for much less ECL loss (LA:+1 vs. 6 RHD).
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
-
2017-05-26, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
I originally thought of comparing the Minotaur to races like Half-Giant and Goliath, then realized we haven't gone that far yet.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2017-05-26, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Worth considering that many people don't consider Dragon material official...
Also, it can be difficult to balance RHD vs. LA. While I agree that LA +1 vs 6RHD is a no brainer, if the numbers were closer, it would be more difficult. LA gives you nothing, while RHD at least give HP, BAB, saves and skill points.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-05-26, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
LA shall be kept at +0, which seems to be a reasonable balance between those voting for -0, +0, and +1.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
A new Junkyard Wars round is up! Come join Weapon Bond + Weapon Specialization - Fighter!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2017-05-27, 04:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Mohrg
Mohrgs: freaky-looking undead murderers. While the undead type is great, the 14 RHD accompanying it aren't, and medium size isn't remarkable either. Their two natural attacks are a slam that deals unimpressive damage (and weirdly enough seems to be treated as if it's the mohrg sole weapon) and a tongue that makes paralyzing touch attacks. With opposable thumbs to go with it, that's not too bad.
Ability scores are decent. 21 strength and 19 dexterity are the only notable ones: the others are either nonexistent or average.
The first of a mohrg's other two special abilities are Improved Grab. This is bad because they're medium-sized beings considerably behind on BAB, and having to give up hands to grapple isn't helpful either.
The other is at the very least interesting: everything a mohrg kills rises as a mohrg-controlled zombie within days (hello, asterisk!), with no true limit on how many you can get in addition to the ability to ignore Animate Dead's HD caps. There's a number of questions this raises, though.
For one, can one zombify non-skeletal beings? Are undead gelatinous cubes possible? Undead lantern archons? Undead air elementals?
Secondly, what does the 'they do not possess any of the abilities they had in life' mean? Would a cloud giant zombie lose its Oversized Weapon ability, even if it'd normally retain it? Or does it refer to ability scores, and is a mohrg leaving immobile, insensate undead in its wake?
Weirdness aside, I don't think mohrgs would be overpowered even if they did get to keep their infinite spawn. Lots of undead HD ruin nearly any character concept for these guys.
-0* LA.Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-01-03 at 05:10 PM.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
A new Junkyard Wars round is up! Come join Weapon Bond + Weapon Specialization - Fighter!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2017-05-27, 04:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Whatever they can do, 14 undead HD means these go straight into Sucksville, as if I remember correctly, those give 1/2 BAB, so bad for combat and bad for casting. I don't think I'd play one even with a lenient interpretion of their reanimation and no LA. -0 sounds perfect.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2017-05-27, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread II: Where The Em Dash Doesn't Exist
Yeah, the Morgh doesn't have much going for it... It isn't even a very interesting monster. Looks like cannon fodder for when regular skeletons don't cut it anymore.