Um/pd ?

[Lord Iames Osari]

Given the default position of magic-psionic transparency, is there any reason why UMD and UPD were made as separate skills?

[Jasdoif]

Transparency applies to how powers and spells interact. It doesn't combine their sources into a single pool; that's why wizards don't learn powers, why psions don't learn spells; and why Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft and Use Psionic Device are different skills then Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft and Use Magic Device.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Transparency applies to how powers and spells interact. It doesn't combine their sources into a single pool; that's why wizards don't learn powers, why psions don't learn spells; and why Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft and Use Psionic Device are different skills then Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft and Use Magic Device.

That's true enough, but it seems to me that the mental skullduggery useful for manipulationg magical items would work perfectly well with psionic ones. Knowlegde (arcana), Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft, and Spellcraft all represent study of a particular field, but it seems to me that the UMD and UPD skills represent more training in mental techniques used to bamboozle items with magical and psionic power, and I don't see any reason why the techniques wouldn't be the same and thus represented by the same skill.

[Kyeudo]

I've always seen UMD checks as crudely manipulating arcane forces or divine energy until the wand goes off, while I see UPD as trying to achieve the proper state of mind and particular focus to activate a device without proper mental training.

I personaly think UMD should be split into Use Arcane Device and Use Divine Device.

[Tellah]

Look at the flavor text for psionic items; they're fundamentally different. One reads a scroll, attempting to activate it with a command word, whereas one would address a power stone, mentally, and ask it to activate. It makes perfect sense that those would require totally different skill sets.

[Kurald Galain]

Given that psionics is basically harnessing power from within yourself, I find that the whole concept of a "psionic item" to be oxymoronic and not making a whole lot of sense.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Given that psionics is basically harnessing power from within yourself, I find that the whole concept of a "psionic item" to be oxymoronic and not making a whole lot of sense.

So you're just taking some of that internal power and setting it aside in an external receptacle. No problem.

[brian c]

Look at the flavor text for psionic items; they're fundamentally different. One reads a scroll, attempting to activate it with a command word, whereas one would address a power stone, mentally, and ask it to activate. It makes perfect sense that those would require totally different skill sets.

I agree, but that having been said, it might be fair to give them synergy since it's at least similar.

[CASTLEMIKE]

It's your game so do what you want. I just think of it as the age of discovery. Alchemy, biology and chemistry or electricity, magnetism and physcics have many similarities but they are not the same disciplines.

Mechanically you might consider granting the synergy bonus for having 5 ranks of skill in one to the other.

[Person_Man]

In some of my games I've personally house ruled that psionics is just another form of magic. I eliminated Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device. Any class with those Skills on its list got Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device instead.

But 90% of the games I've played in use the standard division between magic and psionics. And really, it didn't seem to make much of a difference either way. It's mostly a style thing, as far as I'm concerned.

[tainsouvra]

If it helps, houserule them as related (or the same) skills. I do. RAW, they're separate, but I can't think of a good balance reason offhand why they'd be separate and it seems more flavorful to the rogue class if they were related, thus the houserule.

[Devils_Advocate]

So you're just taking some of that internal power and setting it aside in an external receptacle. No problem.

You mean, "psionic item" is just shorthand for an item created/usable by someone with psionic powers, and doesn't indicate that the item itself is a manifester?

Well, that's a bit of a misnomer, then, isn't it?

(Although a campaign world in which all psionic items are intelligent -- on the theory that psionic effects can only be produced by a mind -- could be... interesting. It would require changes -- or rather, an expansion -- to the normal rules for intellegent items, that's for sure.)