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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Metal refinements (variant rule)

    This was moved from here and has incorporate many EDIT: Everything has been tidied up and put in this doc below, enjoy
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
    Last edited by Westhart; 2017-09-25 at 08:08 AM.
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    For the second tier of Steel, how about Samsara as the name? The cycle of life and death?

    I am forced to agree that the tier 3 refinements are a little too potent, and if Crucible Steel is to be virtually indestructible, then so should Moon Silver and Vibranium... Increasing the hardness of Adamantium and probably Mithral should be added. Maybe cut the multiplier for Vibranium DR from X5 to X4, and give each tier an exponential cost of refinement besides the base cost of the materials and the DC check. To refine tier 1 costs 5,000 gp for example, and tier 2 10,000 gp or 15,000 gp and tier 3 should be double or triple tier 2. So not only is it just a high DC as you've said, but you've also mentioned that it's a very high price. I like the idea of requiring uber rare materials to help in refining of more powerful versions of metals. You might increase the DCs by 5 for each refining process too... Starting at 35 and going up. At higher levels, this shouldn't be any problem anyway, but will push the limits at which a character could possibly craft something like this a bit higher, but not out of reach indefinitely. The knowledge of how to do these process should be held very secret. Maybe humans have the secret of Iron/steel, while the Dwarved have Adamantium and Elves have Mithral? But I guess you could just as easily have a smiths guild where you could find artisans that had the right knowledge to piece together the right lore to accomplish the same thing.

    Just my thoughts :) I'd love to see what you come up with for other materials using this scheme!

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    For the second tier of Steel, how about Samsara as the name? The cycle of life and death?
    Nice! I like it.
    I am forced to agree that the tier 3 refinements are a little too potent, and if Crucible Steel is to be virtually indestructible, then so should Moon Silver and Vibranium...
    "Like liquid silver moon silver can not be sundered, it instantly reforms in shape."
    Actually mithral technically can but, just a waste of actions for the enemy. Good point on the vibranium though.
    Increasing the hardness of Adamantium and probably Mithral should be added. Maybe cut the multiplier for Vibranium DR from X5 to X4, and give each tier an exponential cost of refinement besides the base cost of the materials and the DC check. To refine tier 1 costs 5,000 gp for example, and tier 2 10,000 gp or 15,000 gp and tier 3 should be double or triple tier 2.
    Happily Added, mithril weapon completely reform after silver, so no point to increased hardness there, but adamantine is edited.
    So not only is it just a high DC as you've said, but you've also mentioned that it's a very high price. I like the idea of requiring uber rare materials to help in refining of more powerful versions of metals. You might increase the DCs by 5 for each refining process too... Starting at 35 and going up.
    Uhm DC started at 30 and increased by 5, but 35 works too, fixed.
    At higher levels, this shouldn't be any problem anyway, but will push the limits at which a character could possibly craft something like this a bit higher, but not out of reach indefinitely. The knowledge of how to do these process should be held very secret. Maybe humans have the secret of Iron/steel, while the Dwarved have Adamantium and Elves have Mithral? But I guess you could just as easily have a smiths guild where you could find artisans that had the right knowledge to piece together the right lore to accomplish the same thing.

    Just my thoughts :) I'd love to see what you come up with for other materials using this scheme!
    Well, due to heavy time restraints, I will bump this when I get back from vacation (which may be a while ) and post them then.
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Please use a bit more spacing(organize data instead of placing it in one clump)
    Do vibranium stacks with other critical increaser?
    In this case some vibranium weapons could reach a threat range of 3-20.(long live to the critical strikes!)
    Last edited by noob; 2017-05-23 at 06:00 PM.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    I love stuff like this - fleshes out things especially for the oft-neglected melee characters.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    I love stuff like this - fleshes out things especially for the oft-neglected melee characters.
    I completely concur, but I also feel there's way too much lacking when it comes to crafting skills. For example, Stone is set at a Hardness 8 and 15 HP, but some stones are harder than others. This would have a lot of impact on building.

    Gemcutting should increase the value of rough gems, so that rough ruby that was worth 50 gp in town, after the charter's done, it should be worth 200 gp or more!

    Don't get me started on Leather, mining, engineering, and virtually all the others.

    Craft Alchemy, Armorsmithing, Weaponsmithing, Bowmaking, and a few other crafts are given explicit rules on how they function and what can be done with them, but sadly, much is left to be desired with virtually all Crafts and Professions! Yes... I knkow that Professions are meant to make flat money though a buisness or knowledge set, but more could be put into them. Then again, I've always been one that made my players take Craft or Profession at level 1... It was always meant to give to the characters background. I'd even give a free skill point if need be.

    Even with all the templates I've come to find for arms and armor, I feel they are still lacking, as well as Special Materials to make them out of, and hence why I love this option so much!

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Please use a bit more spacing(organize data instead of placing it in one clump)
    Do vibranium stacks with other critical increaser?
    In this case some vibranium weapons could reach a threat range of 3-20.(long live to the critical strikes!)
    yes they stack, thus why they are so deadly, and costly too, but if everyone feels it is too op I can make nonstackable...
    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    I love stuff like this - fleshes out things especially for the oft-neglected melee characters.
    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    I completely concur, but I also feel there's way too much lacking when it comes to crafting skills. For example, Stone is set at a Hardness 8 and 15 HP, but some stones are harder than others. This would have a lot of impact on building.

    Gemcutting should increase the value of rough gems, so that rough ruby that was worth 50 gp in town, after the charter's done, it should be worth 200 gp or more!

    Don't get me started on Leather, mining, engineering, and virtually all the others.

    Craft Alchemy, Armorsmithing, Weaponsmithing, Bowmaking, and a few other crafts are given explicit rules on how they function and what can be done with them, but sadly, much is left to be desired with virtually all Crafts and Professions! Yes... I knkow that Professions are meant to make flat money though a buisness or knowledge set, but more could be put into them. Then again, I've always been one that made my players take Craft or Profession at level 1... It was always meant to give to the characters background. I'd even give a free skill point if need be.

    Even with all the templates I've come to find for arms and armor, I feel they are still lacking, as well as Special Materials to make them out of, and hence why I love this option so much!
    Yes, I agree, more materials and possibly other things will be coming after the summer... Not sure how much though as a few *******s tripped me down some stairs and broke my PC
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    I do not think it is op:you spent a whole lot of money for getting a correct mundane weapon.
    It is way less good than getting an aptitude weapon with the money you saved up from not using one of those materials.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    yes they stack, thus why they are so deadly, and costly too, but if everyone feels it is too op I can make nonstackable...

    Yes, I agree, more materials and possibly other things will be coming after the summer... Not sure how much though as a few *******s tripped me down some stairs and broke my PC
    I feel they are evening out really nicely now :D and oh S***T! That SUCKS! *raises fist into the air shaking it profusely* You BASTARDS!

    Due to the price of the materials, and the difficulty of obtaining them, I feel it should be justified. There should be mundane legendary qualities that the weapon itself could have that smiths had learned from before the time of magic when they had to rely on their smarts and brawn more than magic to protect them...

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    This was moved from here and has incorporate many Ideas from the thread.
    Refining Materials:
    The process to create a proper furnace only for the refining of metals us very arduous, and this is jut preparing to refine, not even the refining itself. Building a furnace takes one week, and requires three successful Knowledge (engineering) checks out of 7 (one each day).

    The DC is 10 but the Smith can increase it by 20 to cut the time down to 3 days, but he also does not get the benefit of only needing 3/7 he must succeed on all checks if he reduces the time. He may increase the DC by 40 and make the furnace in a single day, but he gets only one check to create the furnace. Regardless of the DC, the cost to make a furnace is 200 gp for a tier 1 furnace, 400 gp for a tier 2 furnace, and 800 gp for a tier 3 furnace. The Base DC for each furnace tier adds 5 to it and increases the time 1 day. (Requiring another successful check but giving one more attempt.) Once the furnace is made the refining process can begin. To refine a material requires 1 hour per tier of the metal. Refining metals uses craft (alchemy) and the DC depends on Tier as below.

    Some dark tomes hint at a fabled 4th tier, wielded by the legedary god slayers of yore, although none now know how to forge it, but then perhaps this is for the best...

    NOTE: A higher tier item has all the qualities of the previous/lower tiers even if they do not mention it in their descriptions. For example, take mithril, its T1 does not increase ASF reduction, although it still has the -5% from regular mithril. To make a tiered metal you must have 10 pounds of the previous tier, this produces 5 pounds of the next. (Love this addition... It makes the process that much harder/more costly.)
    • Tier 1: DC 35; Cost 5,000 gp
    • Tier 2: DC 40; Cost 10,000 gp
    • Tier 3: DC 45; Cost 20,000 gp


    Side-note: As hardness and HP don't have a hard and fast rules, I'd suggest looking at the Hardness to HP the material has in it's base form and keep the Hardness to HP ratio for each material. For example, most metals have 2 HP per point of Hardness, though there are some that have 3 HP per point of Hardness, and some have less. Even stone is almost 2 hp per 1 hardness but not quite.

    Steel

    Humans, one of the youngest races has taken a metal thought to have little use other than ordinary use, and figured out how to make something amazing out of it. Through their ingenuity, they have learned to refine steel to heights that rival even the Elven and Dwarven Smith Lords!

    Crusader Steel (T1): This steel is favored by those who go on long wars, due to its natural resistance to rust and the increased strength of items made out of it. Items made out of this steel gain a +4 bonus on fortitude saves to resist rust or acid attacks, and does not rust under normal conditions. In addition its hardness is increased by 5 and it gains 10 additional hp.

    Samsara (T2): This steel is rather nice, especially for those that fight creatures that use rust attacks or acid. Items made out of this steel gain a +8 bonus on fortitude saves to resist rust or acid attacks, and does not rust under normal conditions. In addition its hardness is increased by 10 and it gains 20 additional hp. In addition weapons have the critical multiplier increased by one. Armor provides 1 more point of AC and max dex is increased by 1.

    Crucible Steel (T3): Crucible steel is extremely rare, and smiths that are able to craft this material are sought by many rich kings, although even they don't have the money to equip an army with it. Crucible steel is impervious, once crafted it can not be destroyed short of divine intervention (this includes rust attacks). If a weapon that does not have a hardness 25 hits the weapon, it is automatically destroyed. It overcomes hardness below 25, and has more effects depending on whether it is made into armor or weapons.
    Weapons: Weapons have their critical ranges doubled, critical multiplier increased by 1, and the damage dice is increased by one step.
    Armor: Armor provides two more points of AC, ASF is reduced by 10%, max dex is increased by 4, and its weight is reduced to 1/2. Smiths that can work this speak constantly of "triple the strength, 1/4 the clumsiness"

    I changed the Hardness of Crucible Steel from 30 to 25 to fall more in line with the +5 Hardness that was given in the previous 2 tiers. This gives Crucible Steel roughly the same Hardness as Diamonds if I remember correctly... But left it otherwise alone

    Mithril

    The elves have taken the practice of refining and smithing mithril to legendary extremes, Only the most renowned of their smiths have mastered the process of refining Mithril to it's 'perfect' form.

    Silver (T1): An inexperienced person would claim this metal is silver, although a knowledgeable smith/buyer knows that it is highly worked mithril, making a very strong metal. This material overcomes DR as if silver, and has the threat ranged increased by 1. Armors have a maximum dexterity 4 higher, and the ACP is reduced by 6. The hardness is increased by 4 and has 8 more HP.

    Moon Silver (T2): Moon silver is a favorite of elven lords, as it allows them to be both dextrous and to have the protection of armor. All liquid silver armors are light, and have no maximum dexterity bonus, or ACP and reduces ASF by 25%. Its total weight is reduced to 1/4 normal. Weapons made out of moon silver are unusual, but still powerful, the threat ranges are doubled, and the weapon can be used with weapon finesse.

    Liquid Silver (T3): Liquid silver is legendary, and renown for its lightness and protection. All armor used with this is counted as wearing clothing, so characters wearing it count as not wearing armor. It has no max dexterity, ACP, or ASF. In addition the armor is so light that it weighs 1/15th that of normal, to a minimum of 1/2 a pound. Weapons with this property have the critical ranges doubled and the multiplier increased by two, and they use dexterity in place if strength. Like moon silver moon silver it can not be sundered, as it instantly reforms it's shape.

    I switched the names Moon Silver and Liquid Silver as in my personal feeling that liquid should probably come last... The last thing I'm not sure about is the weight reduction of Liquid Silver... maybe it should be 1/10th the weight just for simple calculations? Though to be honest, I love the 1/15, I feel it might be a little much... but I didn't change it


    Adamanatine


    The dwarven smith to figure out the trick of refining adamantine was fond of smashing things... To be more accurate flying into a blood curdling frenzy and brutally beating something with a hammer until there was only a grease stain left. Thus the tier names are rather abnormal for a metal.

    Overhead (T1):Weapons made with this have the critical range doubled, and multiple increased by 1. However it makes better armor, the DR the armor would give from being adamantine is doubled, and all armors with it have 25% fortification. The Hardness is increased to 30, so it overcomes hardness below 30. They also have 20 more hp then normal.

    Mjolner (T2): Well, the smith was a viking... Guess the smashing makes sense now. Weapons with this property have the threat range tripled and the base die is increase one step, along with gaining an additional die. Armors with this property are still more sought after then the weapons as the DR is increased by a multiple of 3, thus light gives DR 3/-, medium gives DR 6/-, and heavy gives DR 9/-. They also have a 75% fortification property. The Hardness is increased to 35, so it overcomes hardness below 35. They also have 30 more hp then normal.

    Vibranium (T3): The most powerful, this weapon has its critical multiplier increased by 2, and threat range is tripled. Armors provide amazing protection, 100% fortification, DR is multiplied by 4, and a 25% chance to negate any attack. Vibranium is immune to sunder effects, just like crucible steel. The Hardness is increased to 40, so it overcomes hardness below 40. They also have 20 more hp then normal.


    Tier 4 metals: If you allow characters to make metals past the 4th tier I suggest making them get a piece of primordial fire/ shadow flame/ nether coal etc to be able to craft it at all. Of course these are artifact level type materials, so give some more abilities to the weapon in question. Thus this entails a quest to find a material to refine a material :P
    I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty to make some minor alterations and notes...
    Last edited by AOKost; 2017-05-24 at 08:52 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty to make some minor alterations and notes...
    And i worked most of them in with the new edit
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    For Adamantium, the first tier increases the Hardness from 20 to 30, a gain of 10 hardness... What would you think about keeping that gain at each teir? Instead of 10 followed by 5 and 5, so it would be a total of Hardness 50? The HP would have to be adjusted accordingly...
    Last edited by AOKost; 2017-05-24 at 09:23 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    well, that would make sense, since adamantine is one of the harder metals...
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Back from vacation, enjoy

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing





    and peach of course
    Last edited by Westhart; 2017-08-11 at 07:58 AM.
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

    Extended Signature

    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Sorry it took so long to get around to reading your doc. I love what I'm seeing.

    For Aurorum Armor, you could give Fast Healing 1, 3, 5, or something similar.

    For Starmetal, I feel you should think about giving Armor made from it similar properties as refined Adamantium, or bonuses against outsiders, considering it has the same hardness, and same bypass as adamantium (IIRC), so it should get similar treatment in refining for armor...

    Maybe give Wildwood Weapons bonuses to attacks vs Undead... or vs something that would be anti-life, but also a quick question... how are you refining wood? Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, but if you're able to refine it, then could you make it into complex items like chain shirts and chainmail, not just relatively 'blocky' armors like breastplates and full plate?

    I would love to see what you would do with my homebrew special material Heartstone, and Green Ronins Celestium, and Dragonsteel to mention a few! I would allow the refined properties of materials to be incorporated into Heartstone if they are available in specific enough quantities.

    Keep up the good work! I hope to see tons more along this line! There's not enough special materials and qualities for my personal taste! XD I also really appreciate the expense and difficulty of refining the materials...

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Metal refinements (variant rule)

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    Sorry it took so long to get around to reading your doc. I love what I'm seeing.
    No problem, and thanks!
    For Aurorum Armor, you could give Fast Healing 1, 3, 5, or something similar.
    Alright, added.
    For Starmetal, I feel you should think about giving Armor made from it similar properties as refined Adamantium, or bonuses against outsiders, considering it has the same hardness, and same bypass as adamantium (IIRC), so it should get similar treatment in refining for armor...
    added "In addition starmetal items have the properties of adamantine refined to the same tier, so tier 1 starmetal would have tier 1 adamantine's properties as well."
    Maybe give Wildwood Weapons bonuses to attacks vs Undead... or vs something that would be anti-life, but also a quick question... how are you refining wood? Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, but if you're able to refine it, then could you make it into complex items like chain shirts and chainmail, not just relatively 'blocky' armors like breastplates and full plate?
    ...
    ...
    ...
    You know... I totally did not think about that... I'll have to think about that for a while...
    I would love to see what you would do with my homebrew special material Heartstone, and Green Ronins Celestium, and Dragonsteel to mention a few! I would allow the refined properties of materials to be incorporated into Heartstone if they are available in specific enough quantities.
    I was starting with all the materials in core and splatbooks, all that stuff is coming up, (possibly monday depending on some other projects...)
    Keep up the good work! I hope to see tons more along this line! There's not enough special materials and qualities for my personal taste! XD I also really appreciate the expense and difficulty of refining the materials...
    Well, we would not want ECL 5 characters running around with these
    Homebrew: If it is mine feel free to PEACH and/or use it.

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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

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