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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoric View Post
    Why? Do all the specific orders need to have tailored rules right at launch for them to mean anything?
    Its what it implies for everyone else. If the Clan, Order or Sept is just an arbitrary name in a tag what does it do? Nothing, other than let you have two different groups of a single faction on the board which only hurts you. Its freakin stupid.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    That. It's bad form to write a rule term that doesn't do anything in most cases, except hurt a player in an edge case.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoric View Post
    Kind-of bummed that Tau Battlesuit squads apparently all have a minimum size of 3...
    ...and Chaos Terminators have a minimum squad of 5 now. The unit sizes line up with the box. It's really simple. That is; Buy new models.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    That. It's bad form to write a rule term that doesn't do anything in most cases, except hurt a player in an edge case.
    They have a lot of Keywords in Sigmar that don't do anything. It's pretty dumb. However, my Blackshirt tried to reason with me on this one. By throwing in all the Keywords they can think of straight off the bat, even if half of them don't do anything, they could, one day in the future, release a model or rule that does interact with those Keywords. Maybe not now, but later.

    By essentially 'Keyword dumping' on their models, they are, in some way, future-proofing their rule set, even if they never go back to it, they could. By putting in an <arbitrary name tag> on a unit, they open themselves up to make Uniques and more rules for that Sub-Faction.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    I suppose. But what are the chances that sisters will ever get, I don't know, an order specific special character? Next to none, I'd say. Same for model that says "All tyranids with the [Hive fleet Jormungander] keyword reroll 1s to hit or "All models with the "Craftworld Iyanden" keyword 6" around this model gain +2 movement". It makes sense for marines and basically no one else, as it currently stands.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    It makes sense for marines and basically no one else, as it currently stands.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Some more Necron leaks this morning: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforu...0.page#9393176

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    -C'tan pick or roll for one of these three powers in addition to other abilities they have:
    1) On a 2+, deal d3 MWs to the nearest enemy unit within 24"
    2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll a d6. If higher than their Wound characteristic, remove a model
    3) Pick a unit and roll a dice for each model in that unit within 24". On a 6, deal a MW to the unit.

    Essentially Psychic Powers. Smite that's easier to get off but no chance for extra damage. The wound one seems neat but unreliable, it gets harder to get off the more you want to kill the thing. The last is your standard horde clearer.

    -Gauss is more or lessjust regular guns with a better Rend. Gauss Flayers are Rapid Fire 1 24" AP-1 D1. Blasters are AP -2, Cannons are AP -3 D3 Damage. Which seems good to me.
    -Zahndrekh can prevent an enemy character within 12" from using rules. Decent way to shut down deathstars. Also has random buffs to nearby units.
    -Overlords can give a unit +1 hit/run/charge, think this makes Tesla activate on a 5+
    -Obyron can teleport to Zahndrekh and can fight even if he's killed.

    -Quantum Shield now works like this: When you take a multi-damage attack, roll a d6. If it's less than the damage (so if it's damage 4, a 1-3), ignore it completely.
    -All vehicles and Characters have Living Metal, returning 1 wound per turn. Phylactery on DLord bumps that to d3 per turn.
    -Res Orb lets you make two Reanimation rolls per turn.


    Need more.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...and Chaos Terminators have a minimum squad of 5 now. The unit sizes line up with the box. It's really simple. That is; Buy new models.
    Yeah, learning to deal with that sort of crap's part of the hobby, sadly. Probably still going to bitch about it on their community feedback page when it launches, though.
    Last edited by Theodoric; 2017-05-30 at 09:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    -Quantum Shield now works like this: When you take a multi-damage attack, roll a d6. If it's less than the damage (so if it's damage 4, a 1-3), ignore it completely.
    So, it becomes more effective the better a thing is at tankbusting?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoric View Post
    Probably still going to bitch about it on their community feedback page when it launches, though.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Been doing some number crunching with the Tau leaks and figured out a few things.

    Commanders are more effective than the equivalent points worth of standard crisis teams, except when you equip them with triple flamers. Spamming Commanders might be a thing.

    Flamers are really good against any infantry without a 2+ save. Like, 'kill marines in the open more effectively than plasma' good.

    Crisis suits can now equip three guns. There is no point to using any of the offensively boosting wargear because another gun is better and drones are cheap enough to wager the defensive stuff obsolete. Commanders can equip four guns similarly.

    AP has diminishing returns. Reducing a model's save beyond a certain point just isn't worth it.

    I'm still trying to pick out the best options for anti-meq, anti-geq and anti-tank.
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Been doing some number crunching with hat Tau leaks. And figured out a few things.

    Commanders are more effective than the equivalent points worth of standard crisis teams, except when you equip them with triple flamers. Expect spamming Commanders to be a thing.

    Flamers are really good against any infantry without a 2+ save. Like, 'kill marines in the open more effectively than plasma' good.

    Crisis suits can now equip three guns. There is no point to using any of the offensively boosting wargear and drones are cheap enough to wager the defensive stuff obsolete. Commanders can equip four guns similarly.

    AP has diminishing returns. Reducing a model's beyond a certain point just isn't worth it.

    I'm still trying to pick out the best options for anti-meq, anti-geq and anti-tank.
    I've been trying to work out how shooty a Deathwatch Terminator can be...

    Storm Bolter, plus Cyclone launcher, plus meltafist... more guns than a Dreadnought getting fired at once.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    New teaser's out, about choosing your army.
    Nothing really new, all the leaks kind-of spoiled it.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...and Chaos Terminators have a minimum squad of 5 now. The unit sizes line up with the box. It's really simple. That is; Buy new models.
    And now they don't fit in a Land Raider with a character like they used to because for some reason, the Dark Mechanicum has sat on their hands/tendrils/manipulators for the last 10,000 years while the loyalists invent a bunch of new toys. Lame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I suppose. But what are the chances that sisters will ever get, I don't know, an order specific special character? Next to none, I'd say. Same for model that says "All tyranids with the [Hive fleet Jormungander] keyword reroll 1s to hit or "All models with the "Craftworld Iyanden" keyword 6" around this model gain +2 movement". It makes sense for marines and basically no one else, as it currently stands.
    Technically, Celestine (and Verydian) should be Order of Our Martyred Lady if you want to get picky, but then, that would greatly annoy all the people who don't collect OoOML but bought her in the triumverate anyway. Apparently there's going to be faction specific differences for the various races, so wait until that's definately not a thing before you lose your cool - there could be a very good reason why everyone has <sub-faction> keywords.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    So, it becomes more effective the better a thing is at tankbusting?
    Yeah. Necron vehicles are kind of opposite what they were before. The old Quantum Shielding made them very hard to kill against mid-range shooting but very weak to strong anti-tank, new QS makes them strong against heavy damage but does nothing against chip damage in the form of D1 AP-1 or the like.

    Ark is T6 so Heavy Bolters and Autocannons will plink it down quickly, but Lascannons and Meltas it has a good chance of just straight out ignoring. Very odd, but neat. Kinda fluffy.

    Some more Necron stuff:

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    Warscythes are S+2, AP-4, Damage 2, which makes it a solid weapon overall.

    >imotek
    >ws2+ w6 s5 t5 2+ 4++
    >living metal (but regains d3 wounds)
    >flayed units of the same dynasty within 12 reroll 1's
    >at the start of the unit choose an infantry of the same dynasty and it gets +1 to advance, charge and hit rolls
    >once per game choose an enemy unit within 48": on a 2+ it suffers a number of mortals wounds equal to the roll, each unit within 6 of it also get d3 mortal wounds on a 6
    >228 pts
    >staff 18" s6 ap-3 d2
    >in melee it's S-user ap-3 d2
    >the gauntlet is a flamerthrower with s4 and ap-

    The flayers (Flayed Ones?) weapon hits at S:User AP- D1. Reroll to wound.
    Scarabs weapon hits at S:User AP- D1. Always wounds on 5+ or better.

    Living metal is indeed 1 wounds recovered per turn (1d3 with amulet)

    Death gaze of C'than is Assault D6 wounds on 2+ AP-4 d3 damage (nasty!). Against vehicles it wounds on 6+.

    Tachion arrow is range 120" S10 AP-5 D6 damage.

    Doomsday weapon has 2 profiles:

    - Low power: range 24" heavy d3 S8 AP-2 Damage D3
    - High power: range 72"heavy d3 S10 AP-5 Damage D6. Can be fired only if you didn't move. When firing at a unit with 10 or more models, it becomes heavy d6,

    Sinaptic disgregator(?) is a classic sniper with S4 no AP and mortal wound on 6 to wound.


    Hopefully FLGS will get the books in this week so I can stop refreshing every site and just read the darn thing.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    It would be kind of neat if they had a generic list of universal "chapter tactics" that everyone could pick from for their faction keyword. They'd have to be abilities that anyone could feasibly use, though I guess it'd be hard to make abilities that would be useful for everyone. You could even mine the old Warlord traits if you're feeling lazy. It'd just be a simple table that everyone once picks from.

    Examples (off the top of my head):
    -FNP (6+) equivalent for <infantry>
    -All characters re-roll one dice to hit in challenges
    -<jump> and <jet> infantry trigger mortal wounds on HoW on a 5+ instead of a 6+
    -+3" range to ranged weapons
    -One unit in the army improves its AP by 1
    -All <vehicles> gain IWND (6+)

    These were off the top of my head, so they admittedly suck but you get the idea.

    You could even just do like the Imperial Militia and Cults list, and give players the option to pay for army-wide upgrades/abilities based on the faction keyword. That would be reaaaaallly cool (if probably hard to balance) because it would give options to make any army play differently for a price.
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I suppose. But what are the chances that sisters will ever get, I don't know, an order specific special character? Next to none, I'd say. Same for model that says "All tyranids with the [Hive fleet Jormungander] keyword reroll 1s to hit or "All models with the "Craftworld Iyanden" keyword 6" around this model gain +2 movement". It makes sense for marines and basically no one else, as it currently stands.
    Im fairly certain it is none. Sisters didnt even have an actual Battle Sister special character until recently, we had a Cardinal, a Priest and Celestine (yes shes technically a Battle Sister, but shes the Living freakin Saint). The only special Cannoness we had is Veridyan, and shes brand new, we lost all of our others.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2017-05-30 at 04:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Hopefully FLGS will get the books in this week so I can stop refreshing every site and just read the darn thing.
    They won't be out until June 17th, so no. Preorders go up this weekend.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    They won't be out until June 17th, so no. Preorders go up this weekend.
    Our local store are getting them in this week and running events this weekend to hype up preorders. I'll report, let me know if there's anything specific you want to know. One guy said he'd probably get his in by tomorrow but I probably won't be able to make it out there.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    My primary concern is whether their promise of a 2k point game taking 90 minutes (made today in the comments on today's preview article on their Facebook page) remotely pans out, especially since they said 90 minutes for 1500 points at the outset of this thing. I'm running a three round tournament in July and I'm on a very strict timetable thanks to limited opening hours for the shop; I can't allow more than two hours for each round and need to know what points level to set for the tournament to make that realistic.

    My secondary concern, of course, is how much Guard tanks have gone up in points cost. What happened to the Predator is not reassuring.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2017-05-30 at 05:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    So, the FLGS near me had a copy of the two Imperial Books, and the Chaos Book. Marines all in one book, the rest of Imperials in the other. I have no clue how power levels and combos work, so I cant report anything that way, but the one thing I did see was Space Wolves do get NuMarines, and a Wolf Lord on Bike is the Same as a Captain(it says to use the captain data sheet), and just as a little bit of "chaos can't have nice things" Wolf Lord on Bike with Frost Axe and Storm Shield(15 points for characters) is 123 points, while a JuggerLord base is 125. Really mad at myself for not looking at Defilers... Would love to use one of them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Everything other than basic troops and characters seems to have gone up in price.

    Battlesuits have doubled in price for one thing, while fire warriors and pathfinders are now cheaper.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Everything other than basic troops and characters seems to have gone up in price.

    Battlesuits have doubled in price for one thing, while fire warriors and pathfinders are now cheaper.
    This may be because Crisis Suits got T5 and 3W. Roughly doubling their survivability against basically everything is kind of valuable, I think. And anything without Fusion Blasters is closer to 50% increased in price than doubled. Broadsides tripled in Wounds and also got T5, and their shooting is way nastier now. No wonder they cost... Right, yeah, twice as many points. Stealth Suits are basically exactly as many points as in 7th with 2W, as well.

    Ghostkeels basically didn't change in price, and are probably the standout unit in-Faction from what I can tell thanks to having decent firepower at a reasonable price while being nearly immune to attack. Stormsurges are almost exactly as expensive as before, albeit with a bit less firepower than they used to have (but Advanced Targetting on them is... Really nasty).

    But yeah, it does rather look like Tau are going to be wanting less Riptides and more Fire Warriors these days. Big blobs of Strike Teams supported by a Fireblade and an Ethereal looks like the most cost-effective method in-faction for bringing anti-infantry firepower to the table.
    Last edited by DaedalusMkV; 2017-05-30 at 06:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Last edited by Drasius; 2017-05-30 at 07:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Oh look, our guns are back. Wait....why do we have a lasgun now? And why, in the name of Tzeentch, did we get more expensive???
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2017-05-30 at 08:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Daemons Princes with T6 and bolters? ****ing finally, I've been wondering why no one who ascends bothers to keep their gun forever, and T5 on them has always been a joke.

    Was expecting Daemonettes to move more than 7" though, seems a tad slow for the daemons based on speed and grace.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2017-05-30 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    Daemons Princes with T6 and bolters? ****ing finally, I've been wondering why no one who ascends bothers to keep their gun forever, and T5 on them has always been a joke.

    Was expecting Daemonettes to move more than 7" though, seems a tad slow for the daemons based on speed and grace.
    Because back in 4th we had S5 AP3 Assault 3 eye lasers. Good times.

    On a quick glance i see several questionable decisions.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    So, um, unless I'm misreading something Magnus' sword gives him Strength 16 (along with AP-4 and 3 damage per wound). WTF. . .
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Baratheon View Post
    So, um, unless I'm misreading something Magnus' sword gives him Strength 16 (along with AP-4 and 3 damage per wound). WTF. . .
    You know, for all their blabbering about how 10 isnt the cap, thats the first thing i've seen above 10. Well, besides Ork Leadership with big Mobz.
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  29. - Top - End - #209
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    You know, for all their blabbering about how 10 isnt the cap, thats the first thing i've seen above 10. Well, besides Ork Leadership with big Mobz.
    Imperial Knight Thunderstrike Gauntlet is Strx2 and they're str8 base, so they're Str16 too and they were leaked a few days ago.

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXX: Imperium After Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Imperial Knight Thunderstrike Gauntlet is Strx2 and they're str8 base, so they're Str16 too and they were leaked a few days ago.
    Huh, guess i missed that. In any event, theres barely anything over 10 so far, and theres a fair few leaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    "Mr. Aochev, tear down this wall!" Ro'n Ad-Ri'Gan, Bard
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