Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

[halfeye]

This doesn't appear to have been a 1-1 situation. Did Surma/Tony just walk up to the Donlans, Eglamore, and Jones and say, "We're banging," or something like that? Was Jones a part of their group, was she with Eglamore while he was training? Maybe Tony and Surma were talking with the Donlans about how they're together now and Jones and Eglamore showed up only to catch the tail end of the conversation and realize what happened. "Jones was there all along" but if you look at the first scene it's got Eglamore with the Donlans on either side and Jones is nowhere in sight - where was she? Did anyone realize she was there?

This scene requires just a smidge more context behind it to properly understand IMO.

It's a joke about Jones always having been on Earth, she formed as it did, she is at least as old as the hills. Think of Jones as an oedipal fantasy, mother was always there, mother will never die, and mother is the supreme icon of sexual attractiveness, though (hopefully) unattainable.

[Fawkes]

It's a joke about Jones always having been on Earth, she formed as it did, she is at least as old as the hills. Think of Jones as an oedipal fantasy, mother was always there, mother will never die, and mother is the supreme icon of sexual attractiveness, though (hopefully) unattainable.

Now it's even MORE creepy!

[Typewriter]

It's a joke about Jones always having been on Earth, she formed as it did, she is at least as old as the hills.

I understand the context of the character - I'm referencing her in this scene, however. She simply appears at the end of the scene and the author comment sort of references this (in a tongue-in-cheek way as you mention) - but was it completely a joke or was she literally standing there for the entire duration of the conversation? This scene, as presented, feels very poorly done to me because it lends us to believe that literally what happened is that Surma/Tony walked up and said, "We're together now," 1 split second before the scene actually began. Not to an individual, possibly not to a group of friends because it may include a teacher/primordial force who was hanging around, and that doesn't really make much sense. I can think of at least 5 different things that would have happened right before this scene that dramatically alter the way I would interpret it but I'm not provided with any context so I'm just confused.

[Ibrinar]

Surma:"Hey Egy* meet me and James in the hall and bring some people I need to tell you something and want to make it more dramatic." jut add a line and everything is explained!

*The obvious short form for eglamore!

[Typewriter]

Surma:"Hey Egy* meet me and James in the hall and bring some people I need to tell you something and want to make it more dramatic." jut add a line and everything is explained!

*The obvious short form for eglamore!

"PS: Make sure you bring someone to offer you rebound sex."

[guttering flame]

She's a yellow shadow in the doorframe in the first panel. So she was in Eglamore's room, when she heard the shouting she went out. She took Eglamore back in with her. She gave Surma the final peek and closed the door on her. She (creepily?) told Eglamore she'll never leave him

[eee]

"PS: Make sure you bring someone to offer you rebound sex."

I'm not sure Jones can have sex... Does she have the parts? Internally?

It's interesting to speculate on what Jones DOES have. She must have lungs, larynx, and vocal cords because she can speak. We haven't seen her eat or drink but that doesn't mean she can't. She said she has a normal humans sensory range so eardrums, smell, feel... But nerves? Blood? People don't flinch away when they touch her, so she must have a normal body temperature, but where she's getting the energy to do that, I don't know. I can see why Gunnerkrigg Court scientists spend a lot of scratching their heads over her; Jones doesn't make a lot of sense...

[eschmenk]

I certainly didn't take Jones long to move in, did it?

I'm having a little trouble interpreting Jones' final look before she closes the door. "Humans do the strangest things"?

I took it to be her just observing everyone else as long as possible before privately talking with James.

This scene requires just a smidge more context behind it to properly understand IMO.

I don't think we are supposed to understand it all that well. I'm not sure it's could even have any explanation. If Surma and Tony went to Eglamore's room together, that's seriously wrong. If they were just hanging out as a group, but Surma hadn't bothered telling James yet, that's wrong, too.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I wouldn't assume she hung around him before Surma dumped him.

I mean, Jones was the one who took Jimmy-Jims to the Court, and the one who introduced him to Donald. I think it's fair to say that she's been a reasonably big part of his life since before Surma broke up with him.

[eschmenk]

I mean, Jones was the one who took Jimmy-Jims to the Court, and the one who introduced him to Donald. I think it's fair to say that she's been a reasonably big part of his life since before Surma broke up with him.

Yeah, I was just editing my comment to remove that. I hadn't realized that she had been hanging out in Jame's room, or at least was in the room that James just walked into. However, as guttering flame mentioned, I think we can see her through the window in the first frame.

[Leewei]

Jones certainly is an odd character, isn't she? Born of the Earth itself before life took shape, immeasurably strong and durable. She has a permanence about her.

She also may know the kind of being Surma is. Perhaps she arranged their task with an eye toward matching them up and sparing her beloved the heartbreak following Surma's impending death.

In fact, the comic has revealed both Surma and Annie to be fire elementals. This type of being lives through generations experiencing passion, life, death, and rebirth, again and again.

I wonder if there are other elementals in the world of Gunnerkrigg? If so, Jones' demeanor and capabilities make her a likely candidate for earth elemental.

[Qwertystop]

Jones certainly is an odd character, isn't she? Born of the Earth itself before life took shape, immeasurably strong and durable. She has a permanence about her.

She also may know the kind of being Surma is. Perhaps she arranged their task with an eye toward matching them up and sparing her beloved the heartbreak following Surma's impending death.

In fact, the comic has revealed both Surma and Annie to be fire elementals. This type of being lives through generations experiencing passion, life, death, and rebirth, again and again.

I wonder if there are other elementals in the world of Gunnerkrigg? If so, Jones' demeanor and capabilities make her a likely candidate for earth elemental.

I'd say if Jones is an earth elemental, she's the only one – which makes sense, from a certain reading. There's many fires, and they burn and go out all the time, but only one Earth, and it's been here with minimal change for quite a while. Also, she's never met another one, nor heard of such, and nor has the Court.

[guttering flame]

I'd say if Jones is an earth elemental, she's the only one – which makes sense, from a certain reading. There's many fires, and they burn and go out all the time, but only one Earth, and it's been here with minimal change for quite a while. Also, she's never met another one, nor heard of such, and nor has the Court.

You forget about Theia.

[Qwertystop]

You forget about Theia.

We don't see that event in Jones' recollection. She formed early, but perhaps not that early.

Or perhaps Theia's is a Moon Elemental who hasn't found the probes yet, or otherwise hasn't happened to be recorded. One person-sized being, on the entire moon, probably pretty easy to miss. Especially since they might not look human - there aren't humans on the Moon to retroactively pattern the embodiment.

[eee]

We don't see that event in Jones' recollection. She formed early, but perhaps not that early.

Or perhaps Theia's is a Moon Elemental who hasn't found the probes yet, or otherwise hasn't happened to be recorded. One person-sized being, on the entire moon, probably pretty easy to miss. Especially since they might not look human - there aren't humans on the Moon to retroactively pattern the embodiment.

Jones was telling Annie about her life. Given how long that's been, incidentals like the Earth-Theta collision might not have even gotten a mention.

(It's fascinating to consider what that would have been like from Jones' perspective. She could see this thing in the sky getting bigger and bigger each day; did she realize what was happening? Had she, just by observation and deduction, figured out what the lights in the sky were, that the Earth was orbiting the Sun, that she was on a planet, one of several, and that a different one appeared to be about to hit the one she was on? And then when it did, even though she couldn't be hurt by it, the forces involved must have thrown her around like a dust mote in a storm. I would imagine that if there's telepathy in the GCuniverse, and it could work on Jones, anyone reading her mind might be driven mad by her memories.)

[halfeye]

The Theia theory is pretty new, was Jones written before the theory?

[Tvtyrant]

The Theia theory is pretty new, was Jones written before the theory?

Theia Theory was popularized in the mid 2000s, which is when gunnerkrigg court started. Fairly certain the flashback scene with Jones is from after people were aware of the moon being made by massive impact.

Edit: Annie looks unconvinced.

[Fawkes]

Annie looks unconvinced.

Same, Annie. Same.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Something about "no accounting for taste", I guess.

[eschmenk]

I like Annie's look in the second panel. Poor Annie. "My parents are so embarrassing!"

[Fawkes]

This whole chapter strikes me as so bizarre and unnecessary. I never found myself questioning why or how Tony and Surma got together - it only mattered that they did, and that Surma was gone.

Now that an explanation has been given, I don't feel like we've gotten a better understanding of either character, or any information that couldn't be inferred from what we already knew.

I wonder if Tom felt like he had written himself into a corner by making Tony so thoroughly unlikeable that no one would believe he could ever be in a relationship, and decided to course correct by showing that it was indeed possible for Tony to at least temporarily not be actively terrible.

[Vinyadan]

I think it explains a bit of how Tony works: he cannot move inside group dynamics.

Anyway, I am wondering how closely the comic followed the narration by mrs Donlan. "And then your mum firmly grasped Tony's hand, and pushed it where her hip met her buttock. Tony gasped, as she sat on him..."

[theKOT]

This whole chapter strikes me as so bizarre and unnecessary. I never found myself questioning why or how Tony and Surma got together - it only mattered that they did, and that Surma was gone.

Now that an explanation has been given, I don't feel like we've gotten a better understanding of either character, or any information that couldn't be inferred from what we already knew.

I wonder if Tom felt like he had written himself into a corner by making Tony so thoroughly unlikeable that no one would believe he could ever be in a relationship, and decided to course correct by showing that it was indeed possible for Tony to at least temporarily not be actively terrible.

I'm pretty sure that's it exactly. Tony as we've seen him has been without redeeming qualities. This arc was to remove doubts about whether foul play was involved in his romance and humanize him so he could be something in the story other than a cartoonish villain.

For me it failed. I still maintain some doubts about the relationship - how was that sustained for years? - and I cannot forgive his horrendous failures and abuses as a father. So it just feels like wasted time, really, a 5 panel summary would have connected all the same dots. All this did for me was reveal flaws in Surma's character.

Still love the comic, but glad to be leaving this segment.

[eschmenk]

I wonder if Tom felt like he had written himself into a corner by making Tony so thoroughly unlikeable that no one would believe he could ever be in a relationship, and decided to course correct by showing that it was indeed possible for Tony to at least temporarily not be actively terrible.

But it seems as if Tom didn't really expect that to happen, because he showed that even Anja had trouble believing Tony managed to be in a relationship with Surma. Anja apparently knows everything the readers know, so if what happened didn't make sense to her, it seems as if it shouldn't be expected to make sense to the readers, either.

I have to agree with you about how unnecessary much of the content was. If you look at it from an in-story perspective, you would have to wonder why Anja told Annie such a detailed story. ("The first day, they waited the four full hours, just lying on their stomachs and staring at the assigned location at the base of the tree, but nothing at all happened" and so on.) According to Anja, the point of her telling Annie all of that was that Surma and Tony really fell in love and it wasn't just a trick and they had Annie as a result. How were all of the day-by-day details necessary to make that point? It still comes down to Annie needing to accept Anja's judgement that it really happened as Surma told Anja it did.

I'm pretty sure that's it exactly. Tony as we've seen him has been without redeeming qualities. This arc was to remove doubts about whether foul play was involved in his romance and humanize him so he could be something in the story other than a cartoonish villain.

If so, that wasn't going to work at all for me! Kat's father knew Tony better than anyone and he clearly saw Tony as a flawed individual who has some redeeming qualities, at least when alone with him. Why would I doubt that? Even more so, why would I think a long drawn-out second-hand story that didn't make much sense to the person telling it would be more convincing than that?

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'll just reiterate that I like Tony as a character, and that his characterisation moves me more towards pity than to hatred, especially since he's not being an absolute prick to Annie on purpose; he's just so completely screwed up mentally and emotionally that he doesn't know how to be a better father, even though he wants too. Or, that he thinks he's screwed up so badly already that nothing he can do can make up for it, so why try?

That second opinion seems to be prevalent through the fanbase. I personally don't get it.

[137beth]

I actually think this chapter works better if you think of the story as being filtered through Annie's mind. Even though it is Anja telling the story, we may be seeing Annie's understanding of Anja's story.

I'm thinking of myself at Annie's age. Back then, I didn't really have any conception of what romantic love was, beyond the rather poor depictions I had seen in fiction. At the end of the previous chapter, Annie was told that a seemingly inexplicable series of events (that her mother, a seemingly kind and decent person, literally died on account of someone who, as far as Annie has seen, is an irredeemable monster) can be explained by simply saying "they were in love."

In this chapter, Anja attempts to explain to Annie how Surma and Anthony fell in love. But romantic love isn't really something that can easily be explained second- or third-hand. So Annie hears the events that Anja describes, but she doesn't feel the connection between her parents that presumably occurred, and so we end up with what seems like an underwhelming backstory.

I don't know if that's what was intended, but for me, at least, it makes more sense if I suppose that what we just saw was all Annie's perception, not Anja's (or Surma's) unvarnished narrative.

[Vinyadan]

Since I saw a few comments about Surma's moral character: beside the fact that I don't see what she did in this chapter as bad, we have had reason to believe that she is no saint for a very long time, since she got Reynardine imprisoned in the Court by flirting with him. At the very least, she's a trickster.
http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792

[eee]

I trust Tom Siddell, So far he hasn't made any major story telling missteps. If he felt it necessary to include this chapter, then that means now or in the future, it will be vital.

Since I saw a few comments about Surma's moral character: beside the fact that I don't see what she did in this chapter as bad, we have had reason to believe that she is no saint for a very long time, since she got Reynardine imprisoned in the Court by flirting with him. At the very least, she's a trickster.
http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792

I'm kind of worried about the consequences of this story. The last time Annie found out unsavory things about her mother - the attempt to trick Rey - it lead to fireworks. Under emotional stress Annie is not very wise and she does things she can't explain. God knows what's going to happen now.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm kind of worried about the consequences of this story. The last time Annie found out unsavory things about her mother - the attempt to trick Rey - it lead to fireworks. Under emotional stress Annie is not very wise and she does things she can't explain. God knows what's going to happen now.

I think Annie is much closer to Tony than she is to Surma. Which kind of explains a lot. Both can't really deal with strong emotions and tend to lash out in ways that make things worse for everyone.

[guttering flame]

I think Annie is much closer to Tony than she is to Surma. Which kind of explains a lot. Both can't really deal with strong emotions and tend to lash out in ways that make things worse for everyone.

Tony is emotionally stunted. Antimony just hides her emotions (or used to at least) under a mask.