Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

[Shadow of the Sun]

Tony is emotionally stunted. Antimony just hides her emotions (or used to at least) under a mask.

Disagree. We've seen some strong emotional responses from Tony, and I don't think we can assume that he's completely emotionally stunted. He just has a lot of difficulty expressing them in any situation that isn't 1-on-1

[theKOT]

Since I saw a few comments about Surma's moral character: beside the fact that I don't see what she did in this chapter as bad, we have had reason to believe that she is no saint for a very long time, since she got Reynardine imprisoned in the Court by flirting with him. At the very least, she's a trickster.
http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=792

It's true that she is a trickster, but I find it hard to see nothing she did as bad. She cheated on Eggy, then told him immediately after he returned.... with everyone watching. Unless he was abusive so she felt she needed a crowd (I don't think kat's parents would remain friends with him in that case?) yeah both of those qualify as "bad" to me. Not history's greatest monster or "How could anyone stay friends with her after that!?!?!", but definitely hurtful.

Also obviously as a Miko fan I am going to be judgemental XD

[Vinyadan]

The in front of everyone part, yea, if that's how it went, that is an insane way to handle things. We didn't see it though.

As for the cheating, I don't really consider it cheating. I mean, I would if she hadn't broken up with Eagleman at the earliest opportunity. In general I consider cheating having overlapping relationships, and she considered the one with Uncle Jimmy over when she started the one with Anthony.

[guttering flame]

Disagree. We've seen some strong emotional responses from Tony, and I don't think we can assume that he's completely emotionally stunted. He just has a lot of difficulty expressing them in any situation that isn't 1-on-1

That's why I said Tony is emotionally stunted, not emotionally dead.

[theKOT]

The in front of everyone part, yea, if that's how it went, that is an insane way to handle things. We didn't see it though.

As for the cheating, I don't really consider it cheating. I mean, I would if she hadn't broken up with Eagleman at the earliest opportunity. In general I consider cheating having overlapping relationships, and she considered the one with Uncle Jimmy over when she started the one with Anthony.

We see: Dr Robotnik, still with his pack over his shoulder, reacting "you... and him?" So unless he returned unexpectedly and came across them in the hallway holding hands or something, seems like she just sprung it on him right when he got back.

EDIT: he probably went right to her after he got back, excited to see her, and she had to tell him so he knew not to, yaknow, kiss her. Sucks but probably had to be done at that point. But the situation was precipitated by getting together with someone else before ending things with him.

I would consider myself to be cheating if I didn't inform the other person before starting a new relationship. It's the personal version of quitting your job without giving 2 weeks notice - depending on how serious/long term the relationship was, it can really be inconsiderate. That's my subjective feelings on it, though.

[Spacewolf]

I think Annie is much closer to Tony than she is to Surma. Which kind of explains a lot. Both can't really deal with strong emotions and tend to lash out in ways that make things worse for everyone.

Indeed I do wonder what people would think of Annie if she wasn't the viewpoint character.

[Morty]

I'm likewise not sure what the purpose of this chapter was, but I'm also confused about why Annie needed to be told that. She used to make excuses for Tony's... everything, really, and lashed out at anyone who suggested he was wrong. Now she panicks when Kat no longer hates his guts (which I find sudden, anyway) and has to be told that her mother had really loved him.

[Fawkes]

Indeed I do wonder what people would think of Annie if she wasn't the viewpoint character.

TBH, I haven't cared much for her as a character in a while, probably since that lame attempt at revenge against whatshisname. Jack? The "I don't think I like you very much" thing. That was dumb.

Tony is 1000% worse though.

I'm likewise not sure what the purpose of this chapter was, but I'm also confused about why Annie needed to be told that. She used to make excuses for Tony's... everything, really, and lashed out at anyone who suggested he was wrong. Now she panicks when Kat no longer hates his guts (which I find sudden, anyway) and has to be told that her mother had really loved him.

Yeah, I would have much preferred we spent this chapter learning about Tony and Kat getting along, because that still makes no sense.

[tomaO2]

TBH, I haven't cared much for her as a character in a while, probably since that lame attempt at revenge against whatshisname. Jack? The "I don't think I like you very much" thing. That was dumb.

Tony is 1000% worse though.

Yea, that bit pissed me off too, at the time. Interestingly, that is wrong though. I know it's what she said, but it was on the advice of the fey.

"You want to make him chase you! An' it's simple as anything, all you have to do is show him your cold shoulder, like!

"You make it look like you pay him no mind and he's bound to chase you down, tail waggin'!

"Does that really work?"

"Unless he's got his sights on someone else."

http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/extracomi...0Part%202&p=10
http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/extracomi...0Part%202&p=11

You might have missed it, since it's in the extra content area, but she really WAS actively flirting with him, just like we originally thought. The lie was when she said she was doing the revenge thing, because she was incredibly embarrassed at the fact that he was interested in another girl instead. Obviously she couldn't admit the truth, so she jumped back to that old excuse.

Also, looking at this story reminds me how she just keeps tossing out Uncle Jimmy. I never understood why Annie just seems to keep hating on the man. Such a weird dislike, given how she is with everyone else. Her reasons for disliking him seem so incredibly petty. He said the wrong thing to her once or twice, and she just can not let it go.

[eschmenk]

EDIT: he probably went right to her after he got back, excited to see her, and she had to tell him so he knew not to, yaknow, kiss her. Sucks but probably had to be done at that point. But the situation was precipitated by getting together with someone else before ending things with him.

Apparently not. The scene didn't seem to occur an an airport or another place where James would have been waiting to meet Surma. It looks like it may have occurred outside James's room, given that he walked into a room (where Jones was) immediately afterwards. Unless Jones had been sitting inside by herself, Jame and her were probably together inside James's room before the group got there. Either that, or it's Jones's room and there wouldn't seem to be any reason James would go there to meet Surma.

Yea, that bit pissed me off too, at the time. Interestingly, that is wrong though. I know it's what she said, but it was on the advice of the fey.

I disagree. I didn't read the extra content. I didn't even know it existed. I don't intend to read it, either. As far as I know, it's not intended to be significant. If it is, Tom should let us know. I'm not going to consider it more canonical than what's in the main story.

Even your interpretation is true, Annie still did something potentially pretty horrible. As far as Jack knows, she actively tried to harm him. She said she did, after all. Making Jack believe that she didn't like him and meant to deceive him and harm him would have the same emotional impact on Jack either way. Fortunately, Jack did't really care, but Annie had no way of knowing that he wouldn't.

[Honest Tiefling]

TBH, I haven't cared much for her as a character in a while, probably since that lame attempt at revenge against whatshisname. Jack? The "I don't think I like you very much" thing. That was dumb.

I wonder if Antimony has a habit of lashing out at men since she lacked a decent male role model and her attempts to get a father figure in her life really went poorly. Or if she really just doesn't know how to handle emotions, since one parent was neglectful and another dying. I also wonder if her problem with Eglamore is related to the fact he often compares her to her mother...Just like her father.

[eee]

<snip>

Also, looking at this story reminds me how she just keeps tossing out Uncle Jimmy. I never understood why Annie just seems to keep hating on the man. Such a weird dislike, given how she is with everyone else. Her reasons for disliking him seem so incredibly petty. He said the wrong thing to her once or twice, and she just can not let it go.[/FONT]

Intense subconscious attraction? She knows she feels something for this guy who is literally old enough to be her father, but she interprets it as anger and dislike, and acts on that?

Just thought I'd throw that out...

[eschmenk]

Anja knows better than to get involved in Tony's affairs, but it's OK if Kat does?

Also, if Kat was very angry at Tony when he wanted to work with her, why did she even start working with him?

[NRSASD]

I wonder if Tom felt like he had written himself into a corner by making Tony so thoroughly unlikeable that no one would believe he could ever be in a relationship, and decided to course correct by showing that it was indeed possible for Tony to at least temporarily not be actively terrible.

I have to agree with Fawkes completely. I’m pretty sure Tom wanted us to be conflicted about whether or not Tony is a good guy, whether his motives outweigh his actions. I think Tom was a bit surprised at the vehemence of the community’s dislike for Tony, and has been trying to rehabilitate Tony’s image ever since. How many scenes have we seen Tony being a broken human vs Tony being a terrible monster recently? Without doing a count, I’d bet it’s waaay more of the former than the latter.

What I don’t get is why Kat is working with Tony at all. If I were Kat and Tony offered his help with my project, I’m pretty sure my response would be “If my project needs some children to be neglected or abused I’ll let you know. Now get out”, even if I were stuck at a dead end in my work.

Assuming Kat is much more willing to forgive and forget than I am, (which we haven’t seen so far; of the two she tends to carry grudges longer), I still don’t get why she’s seeking Tony’s help. Tony may be the only other person who uses this organic mechanical tech (the bone spike thing that almost killed Annie), but he hasn’t used it well. He made deals with dark and nasty entities, and lost a hand in the process. I’m not sure his insight is worth anything honestly. It’s like asking for help from a mechanic who says “The only engine I’ve worked on caught fire, exploded, and nearly killed me and my friend after I repaired it. Don’t worry about it.”

[guttering flame]

I have to agree with Fawkes completely. I’m pretty sure Tom wanted us to be conflicted about whether or not Tony is a good guy, whether his motives outweigh his actions. I think Tom was a bit surprised at the vehemence of the community’s dislike for Tony, and has been trying to rehabilitate Tony’s image ever since. How many scenes have we seen Tony being a broken human vs Tony being a terrible monster recently? Without doing a count, I’d bet it’s waaay more of the former than the latter.

What I don’t get is why Kat is working with Tony at all. If I were Kat and Tony offered his help with my project, I’m pretty sure my response would be “If my project needs some children to be neglected or abused I’ll let you know. Now get out”, even if I were stuck at a dead end in my work.

Assuming Kat is much more willing to forgive and forget than I am, (which we haven’t seen so far; of the two she tends to carry grudges longer), I still don’t get why she’s seeking Tony’s help. Tony may be the only other person who uses this organic mechanical tech (the bone spike thing that almost killed Annie), but he hasn’t used it well. He made deals with dark and nasty entities, and lost a hand in the process. I’m not sure his insight is worth anything honestly. It’s like asking for help from a mechanic who says “The only engine I’ve worked on caught fire, exploded, and nearly killed me and my friend after I repaired it. Don’t worry about it.”

Agreed for the most part. Tony was a doctor though, so it's a safe bet to say he knows more about human (and animal) anatomy, physiology and most probably biochemistry than Kat. Maybe he even has some relevant alchemical knowledge. Background of current page which looks like muscle/skin slice fits. Doesn't mean his knowledge can't be reproduced by cracking open the anatomy books in the library.

[Typewriter]

Indeed I do wonder what people would think of Annie if she wasn't the viewpoint character.

She's one of my least favorite characters. I think some of her individual interactions with other characters are good but I feel like she has messed up priorities a lot of the time. She focuses on what's most important to *her* at any given time while ignoring the potential ramifications of how it would impact others. Red sort of called her out on this in reference to the Jeanne situation but that particular situation wasn't even the best example (for the reasons they wound up listing in the story) but it was still nice to see it addressed.

Anja knows better than to get involved in Tony's affairs, but it's OK if Kat does?

Also, if Kat was very angry at Tony when he wanted to work with her, why did she even start working with him?

My guess would be that Anja knows that if she's not involved it's something secretive that she has no place in. She would probably prefer if Kat wasn't becoming BFFs with the guy but the Donlans seem to have a good understanding of their limitations on these types of situations.

As far as why Kat started working with Tony - she may have been afraid to say no and cause problems with Annie. She could have been nervous about the current pseudo-blackmail position she's in and not wanting to make waves.

[eee]

Yes, Kat, technology that could reshape the world isn't dangerous. (eyeroll)

Anja knows better than to get involved in Tony's affairs, but it's OK if Kat does?

She works for the Court. Kat is just a student. They'll tell Kat she can't conduct unapproved research. They'll tell Anja "You're fired".

Then too, there's the emotional cost of geting involved with Tony. Kat's young, she can recover. Anja, Donald?

Also, if Kat was very angry at Tony when he wanted to work with her, why did she even start working with him?

Juliette and not-Romeo do have something of a whip hand. If they talk about what Kat is doing, they won't get a human like body for him, but Kat'll be prevented from doing her research. And Tony evidently knows what Kat is up to, too. If HE talks he won't get his hand back, but again, Kat will be stopped. I would imagine Kat felt she had no choice.

I can also imagine how this went. Kat started off in a barely controlled rage and not speaking to Tony except when she had to, until the guy's brilliance began undermining her defenses. Now it's reached the point she can laugh at his jokes.

Or it could be mind control...

[Vinyadan]

I think that Annie is kinda supposed to be not-nice. In general, she strikes me as the kind of person who has been kicked in the face by life a lot of times and isn't reacting well to it. She also doesn't really know how to go around people (see when she picked up Alasdair). When she is in a position of emotional advantage, she wields it like a hammer to hurt people. She wavers between denial, fake indifference, the feeling of being rejected, and some undercurrent of vengeful thoughts.
What I never got is how she speaks Polish. Maybe some immigrant friends?

[Fawkes]

Seriously? We spend weeks watching teenage Tony and Surma bond over being bored, but Kat forgiving Tony for abusing her best friend is covered in one panel?

I hate this comic.

[Ibrinar]

If that is all the explanation we are going to get it is basically just a hand wave. But I think it is not quite over but maybe I am just hoping for a better reason. Alternatively I will go with mind control as head canon

[theKOT]

I think that Annie is kinda supposed to be not-nice. In general, she strikes me as the kind of person who has been kicked in the face by life a lot of times and isn't reacting well to it. She also doesn't really know how to go around people (see when she picked up Alasdair). When she is in a position of emotional advantage, she wields it like a hammer to hurt people. She wavers between denial, fake indifference, the feeling of being rejected, and some undercurrent of vengeful thoughts.
What I never got is how she speaks Polish. Maybe some immigrant friends?

I thought it was from all her time in the hospital interacting with the spirit guides.

Also, Fawkes, I've started to wonder what Tom's idea of abuse is, and how it should be dealt with. It seems that characters in the story accept neglect and abuse as a result of eccentricity and social awkwardness.

[Fawkes]

That's my worry, too. If that's the position the comic's going to take, I'm seriously going to have to bow out for my own sanity.

[Tono]

All Tony needs to say to Kat to get her to help is that it would benefit Annie in anyway. And chances are what ever he is working on is related in someway either to Annie or the Court. Both of which Kat has an interest in. Topped on with her stories from her parents about how smart he is... I can see it. Then apparently while one on one he talks more. He opens up. He talks to Kat about how what ever he has been doing is out of grief or in his eyes for Annie's benefit. Eventually the hate fades as Kat sees him more as a tragedy/person.

As for what Tony gets... Everyone in the court has to know what a genius Kat is, even if they don't know the extent of what she is or can do. Tony knows that she is absolutely loyal to Annie. If we can assume that their project is even remotely related to Annie and might not be 100% court approved, then she would be the ideal choice. If not she is still once of the most gifted scientist the court probably has.

[Lethologica]

That is a plausible story, and it would be nice if the comic told it instead of the other one that it actually told.

[Yuki Akuma]

The chapter isn't over yet.

[eschmenk]

I have to agree with Fawkes completely. I’m pretty sure Tom wanted us to be conflicted about whether or not Tony is a good guy, whether his motives outweigh his actions. I think Tom was a bit surprised at the vehemence of the community’s dislike for Tony, and has been trying to rehabilitate Tony’s image ever since. How many scenes have we seen Tony being a broken human vs Tony being a terrible monster recently? Without doing a count, I’d bet it’s waaay more of the former than the latter.

I don't think so. If Tom was trying to rehabilitate Tony's image, the best way to do that would be to have him start treating Annie a little better, but Tony was still his same cold self with Annie at the end of the previous chapter. I think Tom merely wanted to show how Tom treats other people, including Surma, differently than he treats Annie. As I've said before, there seems to be a theme lately of Annie being separated from other people. I suspect that this is leading to some plot development that might have something to do with the psychopomps or something.

That is a plausible story, and it would be nice if the comic told it instead of the other one that it actually told.

Hopefully the story is being told the way it is for some reason that we don't fully appreciate yet. To me, it seems like it could be part of a greater pattern that hopefully has some purpose. Either that, or it's just not good storytelling.

[Shadow of the Sun]

And the answer, Annie, is "because he feels like and is a terrible dad and feels like pushing you away is better for both of you".

[eee]

Yeah, Kat, how about instead of laughing at his jokes, you ask your new best buddy in the whole world WHY HE INFLICTS EMOTIONAL PAIN ON HIS DAUGHTER JUST BY EXISTING????

In the name of science, of course...

[Fawkes]

The chapter isn't over yet.

You were saying?

[Drascin]

Because he's entirely unfit to be a parent, Antimony. That's about the short of it.