Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

[EternalMelon]

Wait, what? I don't remember that at all.

For certain definitions of "summon".

[Iruka]

The wiki has a cast list with pictures and names.

[Qwertystop]

For certain definitions of "summon".

Huh. I forgot that chapter.

[lord_khaine]

I think Paz might have a shot with powers, swarms of things tend to do a lot of damage (although Annie can make a fireshield.)

How would she make any meaningful swarm?
She doesnt control animals. She talks with them.
That means she have to bribe/cajole every individual member of a swarm she is making.
And then rely on animals who are actually bright enough to remember what they are meant to do.

For certain definitions of "summon".

Im not certain it follows any definition of summon
Not i guess, more than anyone with a mobile phone can summon a policeman.

[Vinyadan]

Not i guess, more than anyone with a mobile phone can summon a policeman.

"Hello, this is 911."
"Man-of-Law, from thy abode I summon thee! Heed thou my call, and work the woe of imprisonment upon my foes!"

[Tvtyrant]

How would she make any meaningful swarm?
She doesnt control animals. She talks with them.
That means she have to bribe/cajole every individual member of a swarm she is making.
And then rely on animals who are actually bright enough to remember what they are meant to do.



Im not certain it follows any definition of summon
Not i guess, more than anyone with a mobile phone can summon a policeman.

They are eusocial, she just needs tl bribe the queen 👑.

[lord_khaine]

They are eusocial, she just needs tl bribe the queen

And what sort of swarm do you think she can talk to, where the queen is smart enough to direct her hive like that?
Because yes i could see it working with a Zerg swarm. But i cant really imagine many other options.

[wingnutx]

I bet she could get Seabees to do what she wants.

[Tvtyrant]

And what sort of swarm do you think she can talk to, where the queen is smart enough to direct her hive like that?
Because yes i could see it working with a Zerg swarm. But i cant really imagine many other options.

Her power clearly makes animals smarter, as the mouse wasn't just screaming "cheese! Fear! Mate!"

[Vinyadan]

Her power clearly makes animals smarter, as the mouse wasn't just screaming "cheese! Fear! Mate!"

"It's A Trap!"

[lord_khaine]

Her power clearly makes animals smarter, as the mouse wasn't just screaming "cheese! Fear! Mate!"

We dont have any sort of evidence for that.
For all we know its a descendent of a forest mouse or something.

Though for that matter it didnt seem much smarter than a regular mouse.

[137beth]

Who is the “new contract” between? Annie and the psychopomps? The Court and the Forest? Annie and the forest?

[Giggling Ghast]

That’s not creepy at all.

[sheenarustomji]

She smiled so its now your turn

[Rodin]

That’s not creepy at all.

I thought it was rather cute myself.

[wingnutx]

You can't handle the tooth!

[137beth]

It's the thing that most of the fandom predicted would be important in stopping that other guy!

[Squire Doodad]

It's the thing that most of the fandom predicted would be important in stopping that other guy!

It is a tooth that can cut the very Earth in two. Coyote is not of this Earth, so to speak (ether and whatnot) but with Ysengrin in the mix...
Either way, its also possible the tooth is meant for use in some other scenario.

Unrelated: what is the thing that Kat appears to be in the Ether anyways? We don't know of course, but what is it? Like, it looks mechanical, but also organic and insectoid. Any ideas? In the bit with the ship, it is seen to be...very, very large, and there is a humanoid protrusion sticking out from the front of it instead of the whole being as a humanoid thing. It's more like a giant monolith I guess?

[Mith]

It is a tooth that can cut the very Earth in two. Coyote is not of this Earth, so to speak (ether and whatnot) but with Ysengrin in the mix...
Either way, its also possible the tooth is meant for use in some other scenario.

Unrelated: what is the thing that Kat appears to be in the Ether anyways? We don't know of course, but what is it? Like, it looks mechanical, but also organic and insectoid. Any ideas? In the bit with the ship, it is seen to be...very, very large, and there is a humanoid protrusion sticking out from the front of it instead of the whole being as a humanoid thing. It's more like a giant monolith I guess?

My guess is that Kat is the Robotic Angel, with part of her power coming from Robotic influence on the Ether, similar to Coyote's theory that beings like him do not exist.

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah I think Kat is probably becoming a god in the same way Coyote did, but with robot souls and expectations now effecting the aether. Once robots are fully insinuated into the aether the distinguishing marks between court and woods will be gone, robots will just be crunchy people.

[Squire Doodad]

My guess is that Kat is the Robotic Angel, with part of her power coming from Robotic influence on the Ether, similar to Coyote's theory that beings like him do not exist.

So you think its kind of a "Kat is human. The idea of Kat is ascending into the point where she is effectively a god."?

[Mith]

So you think its kind of a "Kat is human. The idea of Kat is ascending into the point where she is effectively a god."?

Basically. Gunnerkrigg Court's Metaphysics are kind of nebulous (at least I don't have any concrete reasoning just gut feeling).

All robots upon seeing Kat view her as a angelic figure for Adoration, so it could be that she has a gift for robotics/programming that is akin to the other etheric arts (Annie's Fire, Paz's ability to speak with animals), but grounded in Technology, which explains her ability to make improvements upon Diego's work easily. Kat could serve as a gateway/gatekeeper between Natural Sciences and Etheric Arts. Sort of how Annie as a psychopomp serves the divide between the living and the dead.

I wonder if the idea of belief empowering a creatures existence only matters until a separate identity is formed. Renard the Fox and Ysgrin the Wolf were not such well known stories for common knowledge and belief to power them in the modern day. So there must be some means for Etheric creatures to self actualise themselves after they manifest.

The reason for the above musing is that from the Stormy Seas arc (Kat vs. lovestruck boat), Kat seems to manifest as the Angel envisioned by Zimmy, but as a very binary state, not the more fluid nature that Annie demonstrates as a fire elemental. My thought is this is because Kat isn't really aware of what she is doing (she seems unaware of her transformation). So if she ever became aware of being an Avatar of the Robots, that will change how she behaves and what she can actually accomplish.

[DeTess]

I wonder if the idea of belief empowering a creatures existence only matters until a separate identity is formed. Renard the Fox and Ysgrin the Wolf were not such well known stories for common knowledge and belief to power them in the modern day. So there must be some means for Etheric creatures to self actualise themselves after they manifest.

I don't now about Ysgrin, but the concept that Renard represents is still fairly common in my area. Common enough that I've heard 3-4 different stories about a fox called something fairly similar to Renard at any rate. Oh, and there's a statue of the Fox in a town near where I was born.

[Vinyadan]

The French stopped calling the fox goupil and began calling it renard because of the stories...

[Mith]

I don't now about Ysgrin, but the concept that Renard represents is still fairly common in my area. Common enough that I've heard 3-4 different stories about a fox called something fairly similar to Renard at any rate. Oh, and there's a statue of the Fox in a town near where I was born.

The French stopped calling the fox goupil and began calling it renard because of the stories...

Fair enough. When I looked at the story of Renard/Renart, the only modern story I could find was the song Reynardine. So I was under the impression that they were not as common. If Renard depends on sustained belief, perhaps that would be enough while Ysgrin slowly degraded.

But then again, Coyote seems to me to be fairly far removed from the stories that would have birthed him. So maybe there is some form of self actualisation involved.

[halfeye]

Fair enough. When I looked at the story of Renard/Renart, the only modern story I could find was the song Reynardine. So I was under the impression that they were not as common. If Renard depends on sustained belief, perhaps that would be enough while Ysgrin slowly degraded.

But then again, Coyote seems to me to be fairly far removed from the stories that would have birthed him. So maybe there is some form of self actualisation involved.

A coyote is an American animal, the red fox and the wolf are pan-northern animals, so their history in European languages is a lot longer.

[Mith]

I guess the premise I am going with (which may differ from others) is that Renard only came around due to the popularity of the stories of Renard the Fox.

Whereas it could also be that Renard (and Ysengrin) took names from those stories, but are in actuality much older.

The reason for me assuming the former is because as noted, Fox and Wolf are common across the Northern Hemisphere, so to me it makes no sense that Coyote heard about Renard from across the water and moved to Britain.

[SZbNAhL]

Coyote is the most powerful entity in the known Gunnerkrigg universe. Between the massive decline in the Native American population and the partial Christianisation, there shouldn't be enough belief in Coyote left to keep him as powerful as he is. Either it's a certain amount of power to "ascend" and then you keep that power, or it doesn't take a lot of belief to create a being that powerful, which raises the question of why there aren't more beings of Coyote's power level.

[geoduck]

Coyote is the most powerful entity in the known Gunnerkrigg universe. Between the massive decline in the Native American population and the partial Christianisation, there shouldn't be enough belief in Coyote left to keep him as powerful as he is. Either it's a certain amount of power to "ascend" and then you keep that power, or it doesn't take a lot of belief to create a being that powerful, which raises the question of why there aren't more beings of Coyote's power level.

Who says there aren't? We have no idea what's going on out in the rest of the world away from the Court.

[tyckspoon]

Coyote is the most powerful entity in the known Gunnerkrigg universe. Between the massive decline in the Native American population and the partial Christianisation, there shouldn't be enough belief in Coyote left to keep him as powerful as he is. Either it's a certain amount of power to "ascend" and then you keep that power, or it doesn't take a lot of belief to create a being that powerful, which raises the question of why there aren't more beings of Coyote's power level.

Coyote's ego may be self-sustaining at this point. There's also all the various Forest creatures, who most certainly do believe in Coyote even if the broader human population is moving beyond them.

Possibly Coyote has eaten all the beliefs and stories associated with his general archetype? Ie, he's not just Coyote, he's also feeding on the stories of Raven and B'rer Rabbit and Anansi and Loki and even more modernized trickster figures like Bugs Bunny and.. well, quite a few popular cartoon characters.