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    Post [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    EDIT: Playtest is officially closed, but I'm leaving the document available if people still liked it and want to use it or its materials for their games. I will not be working with DSP any further for this product.

    -X


    Greetings and salutations to everyone - I yet live and apparently have even been writing some things. Let's see how this all turns out, shall we? Without further ado...

    Introduction

    Welcome to Divergent Paths: Mystic! Within these pages we will discuss the Mystic base class and many new options that are available to it. You can find the playtest document right here.

    Chapter 1 will detail several new archetypes for mystic base class:
    • The Force Mystic - a type of mystic who has embraced their animus and wields its elemental power more fluidly at the cost of some of their weapon training.
    • The Noetic - a mystic whose animus is derived from psionic potential, rather than arcane energies.
    • The Sage - a mystic who has learned how to tap into a primal, subconscious collective within his animus.
    • The Shade Tamer - a mystic whose animus is tainted with the essence of death and learns to use this animus to control the dead.
    • The Wandslinger - a mystic who specializes in using wands with his martial maneuvers.


    Chapter 2 will detail new feats for use with your mystic (or other animus using characters!). Chapters 3 will delve into advanced tactics, which include a new prestige class and magical items for use with mystics and other animus-users.

    ----

    Please post all feedback here - I'm looking for balance of mechanics, issues or things that should be removed/added/replaced, wording issues, rules loopholes I've missed, and basic grammar of course. I feel pretty solid about most of this work, but I have some specific questioning on the abilities of the Shade Tamer archetype and the Soul Caster PrC.

    Changelog
    6/8/17
    -Made typo fixes throughout the document - thanks for the catches on those guys.
    -Fixed wording on Force Mystic arcane missiles to be light weapons
    -Fixed wording on Force Mystic paraelemental animus to be more clear for how long its useful for - until next turn.
    -Fixed wording on Force Mystic forced attunement - clarified what earth and air type vulnerabilities include.
    -Changed initiator attribute on Noetic to Charisma.
    -No changes to Sage as of yet.
    -Clarified that Ways of the Undying allows undead to receive morale bonuses.
    -Attemped to clarify by way of examples for Unsettling aura.
    -Specified how the damage is worked in sacrificing hit points for animus for fueling dark arts.
    -Moved command undead ability to initial Dark Arts suite and specified how many undead they can command.
    -Clarified in Dark Arts what happens if you raise too many undead and how they initially are under your control - reminder - Black Banner doubles this.
    -clarified WHY you get Craft Wondrous Item and hopefully cleared up potential pitfalls for Necrotic Transcendance and the creation of the puzzle box phylactery.
    -Reduced potency on Wandslinger's Edge to +1/6 caster levels of the wand.
    -Feats - fixed Animus Surge's type in the chart.
    -Elemental Soul increases arcane missile damage.
    -Cleaned up wording for Psi-Animus assault.
    -Increase to Soul Caster HD and BAB to d8 and 3/4 BAB respectively.
    -Fixed typo in Glyph Casting
    -Reduced cost of Claim Spell.
    -Added Improved Claim Spell - check it out.
    -Reduced cost of anima saber and it now comes as just a standard item that can be enchanted like a normal weapon. Defined its weapon group and weapon type, critical range, material and hardness/hit points. Changed the gem to deep crystal. Defined what happens with shade tamers using it with negative energy.
    -fixed some wordings in Spell Bullets for targeting.
    6/12/17
    -Fixed wording in glyph casting for soul caster.
    -Anima saber is a one handed martial melee weapon. If you aren't proficient with all martial, you're not proficient with it. You'd have to take Martial Weapon Proficiency (anima saber).
    -bonus damage from maneuvers that does specifically list a type inflicts the same type of damage as the anima saber. Damage that specifies its type or changes the damage type of the attack supersedes the energy damage of the saber.
    -anima saber enhancement bonus rules tweaked and removed craft wondrous item from needed feats to craft.
    -changed elemental soul to add an additional 1d6 for that chosen element.
    -fixed animus surge on the table
    Changelog 6/17/17
    -Fixed wording in force mystic proficiencies to make them able to use their own arcane missiles.
    -Fixed the order of paragraphs in force mystic's missile augments.
    -Fixed wording in forced attunement so it actually works as intended.
    -Fixed wording (I hope) in Shade Tamer's unnatural aura.
    -Changed up Deathly Garden to be more maneuver based.
    -Fixed typo in Two Wand Mojo
    -Reduced cost on Spellcannon to be more reasonable and changed it to require Scribe Scroll instead of Craft Wondrous Item.
    -Updating wording in soul caster's maneuver sections to jive with recent errata.
    -Soul Caster gets a modified claim spell at 2nd level, and gets Font of Animus at 3rd level.
    -still haven't figured out how to fix Claim Spell. Working on it.
    Changelog 7/1/17
    -The nerfs made to Ancient Wisdom in the sage archetype make it largely a stat swap which is equivalent to half a feat, so... kind of a throw away. Lump into the price paid for animus infusion if you will. It's free at 1st level, to signify you actually getting something for your entry free to start with as well (yes I know it makes it more attractive to mystic dips but it's not THAT big of a bonus unless I'm way off base). You can now have your punchy wiseman mystic. You're welcome. :)
    -Redid pretty much everything in Noetic, so you may want to give it a thorough re-read.
    -Soul Caster - Claim Spell is gone, replaced with recast spell and spell analysis. Moved font of animus to 2nd level and shifted bonus feat at 7th level to 8th level.
    Changelog 7/3/17
    -Fixed mystic bangle to have full enhancement progression ability from +1 to +10
    -Redid the Paraelemental Elemental Animus class feature in the Force Mystic because there are 4 elements, not 5, and I apparently can't count. Changed up the progression and clarified how they change active elements and reduced costs as they level as they are more specialized in elemental energies than other mystics.

    --------------
    As with all playtests, once the product releases I can't promise that the playtest documents will stick around. You've been warned!

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2017-07-17 at 11:14 AM.
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    I definitely need to check this out once I get home.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Some feedback:

    Noetic: if you are a psionic race, do you just not gain any benefit from the Wild Talent bonus feat at first level?

    Sage: Reminds me of... Dragon Quest?

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Hope you don't mind pointing out some typos.

    "pattern of a psionic being who’s noetic essence did not express itself "

    Should be "whose".

    Force Mystic means we get a charisma mystic! Yay!

    It also has a cool energy throwing stuff, huzzah. I was wondering when that was going to be implemented.

    Sadly that's all I have time for today, perhaps I'll post more feedback, meager as it may be, later this week.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Fantastic. Although, on an immediate look, some issues:

    Feats Table-Animus Surge
    On the table Animus Surge is typed as Psionic when in text it says general. On the table it says it raises manifester level when in text it does caster level.

    Soul Caster-Glyph Casting
    (either from being mystics or being members of the soul caster prestige class, see Path of War: Expanded), may add their levels in soul caster to that class to determine their ability to cast glyphs (mystic or soul caster; if the character has the ability to cast both she must select one class or the other).
    Do you mean Animus Adept instead of Soul Caster? Soul Caster has no inherent glyphs ability.
    EDIT: Additionally, what's the reason behind having only 1/2 BAB progression and a d6 Hit die? Even considering Mystic's relatively easy access, it seems rather punishing for a likely melee class which has progressed only with 3/4 BAB insofar, and it's not that particularly great either, and Mage Hunter sets a precedent for having at least a d8 and 3/4 BAB.

    Anima Saber
    -Cool item, but is the overpricing really that worth it? There's a reason why the similarly expensive Amulet of Mighty Fists has been decried as such, and I'm not sure whether the damage potential is that massive, particularly with an assumed 20/x2 critical range, no 1.5x Ability score to damage baseline, and when the mystic can already turn all damage into elemental damage.
    -Is it a light weapon or a one-handed weapon? Text implies it's a one handed weapon that doesn't get 1.5x Wis when two-handed, but it's never specified. Also, does it have a weapon group?

    Mystic Bangle

    Any chance this can be made to work with Enter the Vortex's blasts as well?
    Last edited by Tuvarkz; 2017-06-06 at 12:37 AM.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    RE: Noetic

    Given that this archetype takes its cues from the Wilder class - even going as far as to relate the archetype to the class as an alternative path for same power with a more martial bent - should it not alter the initiation modifier of the Wilder to Charisma to better represent those intrinsic ties as well as the less than meditative nature of the Noetic's abilities? It feels like that if there is to be a mystic archetype that is based off of Charisma rather than Wisdom, this is the one that ought to be it, rather than the blaster archetype that shares few if any roots with a Charisma based class.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    I very much like the Shade Tamer; I've always preferred passive abilities over the active sort you'd get with Glyphs. However, I have two particular gripes with it:

    First, no material cost on animating undead. I'm not precisely worried about this; it's more... concerned, given how divergent it is from other classes that get similar abilities to raise the dead. Not complaining. Just wondering about the idea behind it.

    Second, Craft Wondrous Item at level 7, apropos of nothing. Why is it there? A mystic that actually wants to do crafting will take that at level 5 by themselves.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    some one ping xefas we have sidereal exalted created by dreamscared press
    other then no particular comment
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    This looks amazing!

    A few comments and questions:

    Force Mystic:

    Does Augmented Missiles have to be a swift action? PoW classes always have too many things to do with their swifts.

    In the description of Paraelemental Animus you have a typo at the beginning "At 6h level".

    I'm not quite sure that Forced Attunement does what you want it to with the [air] and [earth] subtypes. Neither of them have any solid rules for what traits they provide.

    Noetic:

    Animus Surge could use text saying that Prestige Classes that advance glyphs also advance Animus Surge.

    Shade Tamer:

    Is Ways of the Undying meant to allow undead to receive morale bonuses?

    Wandslinger:

    I worry that Wandslinger’s Edge scales too easily. A 0th level wand can effectively be a +5 weapon for only 7.5k.

    Feats:

    Elemental Soul doesn't seem to do anything, as missiles already add Cha to damage and both are untyped, so they would not stack.

    Psi-Animus Assault seems to require that you expend your focus twice, as each of the prerequisites also requires that you expend focus.

    Soul Caster:

    I quite like this class, it looks like a cool Prestige Class.

    I'm not sure I like the chassis. 1/2 BaB on an initiator is quite low.

    I also feel that it has a lot of dead levels.

    Items:

    Can the Anima Saber have a weapon group?

    The Spell Bullet could use text saying that the spell takes effect on the shot's target or centered on them. It should also require that the target be legal.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    if a shade tamer uses the black art Dark Connection to let an undead minion use a Unquiet Grave maneuver, does that minion get the grave call benefit of said maneuver?
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Ooooh, you live!

    I really liked the "So… What exactly is animus then?" section. While it was implied in the original class, a more developed text is welcome.

    Beyond that, I was expecting more Animus feats that could work with Tap Animus feat. Any chance we see something like that?

    Edit: is the Anima Saber light? One handed? Weapon Finesse?
    Last edited by Fenryr; 2017-06-06 at 09:59 AM.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    So you created both a lightaber and caster shells. Do't think we didn't notice! Also, minor quibble, but you might want to change the name to Divergent Paths: Mystic Expanded or something, because the other Divergant Paths brought a new class/discipline, and this just expands an existing class.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Anima Saber

    Needs more weapon stats (some already noted by Fenryr):
    • Crit range specified
    • Handedness
    • Weapon group(s)
    • Material harness and HP value for being sundered (and potentially whether the + bonus increases its hardness like it does for other weapons).


    Can it be sized up or down for small/large beings? Or does it not size, but they can use it normally?

    I think it would benefit from being Finessable, both mechanically and thematically.

    EDIT: Anima saber never actually says it is used as a melee weapon; its implied but it should really say it specifically.

    ie: "...forth a crackling blade of pure elemental energies based on his active elemental attunement that is wielded as a (one handed) melee weapon, which inflicts ..."

    ---

    I think the Anima saber is front loaded, and thus too cheap to start, and too expensive later on.

    What you get for 4K gp:
    • 1d8 weapon that deals variable energy type damage (good at low levels, kind of meh when opponents start getting energy resist regularly)
    • It’s a weapon, so Strength bonus to damage like normal, PLUS Initiator Mod in damage (and another +1 or special weapon property), so 2 stats to damage (this appears to be its real selling point)
    • Ignore 10 Hardness (which I translate into effectively reducing the hardness of the target, so hardness 15 becomes hardness 5 effectively). This is fine, but not as great as it may appear, since in pathfinder energy damage is halved against objects (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/da...Energy-Attacks).



    At low levels, that’s quite a bit to get for 4K, and there’s not a whole lot of impetus to improve the weapon much later, as none of its basic properties are “plus” dependent.


    How I’d fix:
    I’d recommend just setting a base price for the item at masterwork level, and allowing the addition of melee weapon pluses and properties just like a normal weapon.

    For example, I’d tend to value the base at 6K gp – a bit more than an adamantine weapon. Then to add a +1 to it would be the normal 2000 gp more, etc.

    That would make the weapon scale just like all other weapons, but has a base entry fee, just like special materials do, to balance its given utility.

    It would therefor be not too cheap for what it does at low levels, and not too expensive to improve at higher levels. And thus be a weapon you can use your whole career.

    ---

    Fluff:
    “At one end of this, is a glyph-carved diamond with numerous facets. “
    Oh, can this be deep crystal instead of a diamond? I think that would be cool, and harken back to other DSP products.
    Last edited by ATalsen; 2017-06-07 at 12:07 AM.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    I came back to this for a second look and I have some more concerns about the Soul Caster.

    The main problem is just that this class is very animus hungry and has no method of gaining more animus. There's nothing about the class that allows them to gain more animus than a normal mystic or use any animus out of combat. With every spell costing animus, the soul caster will quickly run out of animus.

    Claim Spell is probably the biggest problem here. It costs a lot of animus and only increases with level. It is very expensive in the combat you use it and doesn't give any immediate benefit. Given that it only lasts for the day, I can't really see it being used.

    Animus Metacasting is powerful, but it should be fine given the constraints it places on the spell being cast in combat.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    A couple of things I've found that need specifying.

    <The Shade Tamer> suffers a -2 penalty to Diplomacy and Handle Animal checks when dealing with those unaccustomed to death. What exactly is the definition of "unaccustomed to death"? Does that simply apply to everyone living? Anyone who does not have the ability to cast a Necromancy spell or a spell that can create undead? Do morticians or grave-robbers count as being accustomed? What about adventurers, for whom most will be very used to things being dead around them?

    He does not need material components for arts that replicate spells with material components - he instead pays with animus or hit points (one point of animus or 5 hit points per 50gp value of the material components). What constitutes as "paying hit points"? Do they simply take damage, and if so can this damage be prevented or redirected in any way? Do they suffer something similar to Burn like a kineticist, so there's no way to regain 'paid' hit points until the next day?

    The shade tamer may animate a corpse as if he had cast lesser animate dead upon it... Are these undead automatically under the Shade Tamer's control? For that matter, how does a shade tamer determine how many undead they can have at their command?

    The shade tamer gains the Craft Wondrous Item feat as a bonus feat at 7th level. I get the distinct feeling from this and the class feature directly above it that the Shade Tamer is meant to be "the initiating Dread Necromancer". This might bear explaining in its introductory statement, because otherwise this feels really random to have as a class feature.

    To learn or cast a spell, a soul caster must have a primary initiator score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. Not actually a problem whatsoever here, but there's a funny interaction with regards to the Roil Dancer kineticist archetype; once more, CON-based spellcasting exists! Hooray for that! Keep it in, I love it!

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Force Mystic (Archetype)

    "The force mystic attacks with arcane missiles as though they were light one-handed weapons,"

    Light weapons are one category; One-Handed weapons are a separate category.
    Did you mean light OR one handed, giving a choice?

    Given the rest of the info, it seems like the intent is just that they are light weapons.

    Paraelemental Animus (Su)
    "When blending elements, the force mystic must spend a point of animus to fuel ability."

    It is unclear how often you need to spend the animus so that it modifies your maneuvers - once a round? once per maneuver?

    Possible typo missing 'the' between 'fuel' and 'ability'.


    Forced Attunement (Su)
    This appears to give a subtype based on your selected energy to the target(s).

    I'm not sure all the possible subtypes make sense - water subtype for example(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rul...-Water-Subtype) has nothing to do with cold resistance and instead grants water breathing and swim speed.

    (possible active elements: air (electricity), earth (acid), fire (fire), and water (cold).)
    Last edited by ATalsen; 2017-06-07 at 11:47 AM.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Thank you so much for the responses thus far - I'm trying to juggle a change log and updating my master document with work and other things so I'll have an updated document hopefully either tonight or tomorrow morning.

    Please keep the feedback coming!

    -X
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Hm, just realized ATalsen and I seem to have gotten entirely different readings of the Anima Saber's damage.
    Is the +Initiation modifier to the anima saber's damage is on top of the usual strength or dexterity; or in replacement of it? Completely changes the power of the item, and should be clearly specificed as to which of the two applies.
    Last edited by Tuvarkz; 2017-06-08 at 01:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Document updated with new info, changelog in OP.

    Thank you all - give it another looksee and see what else I wrote that's possible malfunctioning or has grammar issues, etc :D

    EDIT: If someone wants to pull in input from 4chan and/or reddit and add it here, that would be cool. I'd like to get that info here.

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2017-06-08 at 06:26 PM.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    While having the Noetic be charisma-based makes sense, it kind of ruined the hope I had for a Wisdom-based full initiator that got Sleeping Goddess without jumping through hoops. Is the Force Mystic going to remain Charisma-based?

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaxenomorph View Post
    While having the Noetic be charisma-based makes sense, it kind of ruined the hope I had for a Wisdom-based full initiator that got Sleeping Goddess without jumping through hoops. Is the Force Mystic going to remain Charisma-based?
    Can't win 'em all, all I saw on the chan about this was "why noetic not Cha-based! DSP is so allergic to Cha!". Plus during the original test of Expanded there was a lot of discontent about not having a Cha!Mystic so here ya go - have two. I see the Force Mystic as having more sorcerer influence and the Noetic having more Wilder influence (obv). So there ya go. Have two stat change archetypes for Cha!Mystics.

    I have come into a situation where I have more time to write during my day sometimes so honestly, your wish might come true with another supplement (I promised a psionic stalker ages ago and I aim to deliver it if possible). At least as long as DSP has customers that want it and they want to hire me to write it at any rate. I started the mystic book before my departure from the company and only now am getting around to seeing if they wanted it. They did, so here we are.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Animus Surge's Benefit text in the table remains uncorrected. Should be caster and not manifester level.

    Soul Caster-Glyph Casting
    It still references itself in the second parenthesis's text.

    may add their levels in soul caster to that class to determine their ability to cast glyphs (mystic or soul caster; if the character has the ability to cast both she must select one class or the other).
    Anima Saber
    Long Blades is not a weapon group, or at least not a pre-existing one. It's either Light Blades or Heavy Blades.

    Again, the 6k gp base price is like a considerable hurdle (Particularly because it means it won't see play until at least levels 8-9), even if enchanting it as a magic weapon is now cheaper. Similarly, the cap on +5 total makes it a rather weak option in comparison to more commonly used weapons, even if it's just endgame-wise. As is, the only situation where I see it as a viable weapon is a levels 9-14 build that completely ignored str or agi in favor of the initiation modifier and has taken Intuitive Fighting.
    Also, forcing both Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wondrous Item feels like a hurdle in making it.
    Last edited by Tuvarkz; 2017-06-08 at 11:55 PM.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Can't win 'em all, all I saw on the chan about this was "why noetic not Cha-based! DSP is so allergic to Cha!". Plus during the original test of Expanded there was a lot of discontent about not having a Cha!Mystic so here ya go - have two.
    While I loved the Wisdom-based noetic, it really did scream to be Cha-base from its Wilder influence.

    My own wish list is ONE more full BAB Int-mod initiator. Warder is great but its main class feature set (Defensive focus, aegis, Armiger's mark) just never seems to compliment my planned builds. :)

    ---

    Quick couple of items:

    Soul Caster (Prestige Class)

    "Maneuvers: Ability to initiate 3rd level maneuvers and stances of the Elemental Flux discipline, and possess at least one strike and one stance of 3rd level or higher"

    This seems a little convoluted to me, and I'm trying to understand what might qualify.

    seems like the lowest qualifying set of items is:
    a 3rd level Elemental Flux STRIKE
    a 3rd level elemental Flux Stance

    Could also qualify as:
    a 3rd level Elemental Flux BOOST
    a 4th level Elemental Flux STRIKE
    a 3rd level elemental Flux Stance

    Seems like it would just be clearer to say:
    "Maneuvers: Ability to initiate at least one 3rd level or higher strike of the Elemental Flux discipline, and possess at least one Elemental Flux stance of 3rd level or higher"

    Which would let someone enter with a 4th level Elemental Flux strike and 3rd level Elemental Flux stance.

    Maybe I'm missing it though and its supposed to be any discipline stance of 3rd level or higher?



    Anima Saber

    I forgot to mention needing weapon proficiency; otherwise people might think the wielder is non-proficient!

    May I suggest something like:
    "Anyone with the animus capable of activating the saber is considered proficient with its use (as a weapon)"


    Odd bit of cut and paste, which may not be on your internal doc:
    "the anima saber becomes a blade of darkness that inflicts slashing and negative ???

    Anima sabers can possess an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls. energy damage. "

    "energy damage." should be moved to the end of the 1st line (the ??? I put in above).


    Without the 2 stats to damage, I'm not sure the price is low enough, but still, better a tiny bit overpriced then under-priced. Maybe drop it to 4,000 or 5,000 gp?

    Though I think I'd make it an option to substitute IM for Str Mod to damage instead of mandatory. Making it mandatory means not playing well with Deadly Agility (Dex to Damage feat). As an option you could take whatever your best stat is, but only one stat, which plays into more builds.
    Last edited by ATalsen; 2017-06-09 at 12:30 AM.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Thanks for the quick turnaround on this! I have a few comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    -Reduced potency on Wandslinger's Edge to +1/6 caster levels of the wand.
    Can I suggest that this be 1/4 levels to a max of 1 higher than the level of the wand's spell? I think that would balance it well for both low and high level play. For reference, that would put the minimum cost to achieve each level of bonus at 1,500; 6,000; 18,000; 36,000; 60,000. This maps relatively closely to weapon costs.

    -Feats - fixed Animus Surge's type in the chart.
    This still says "Spend animus to increase manifester level temporarily" in the table.

    -Elemental Soul increases arcane missile damage.
    I would say this is a bit too weak now. Even at higher levels, it's questionable if this is as good as weapon specialization.

    -Increase to Soul Caster HD and BAB to d8 and 3/4 BAB respectively.
    Great, but I noticed one more thing. Why does a PrC that adds casting to a class with good Will and bad Fort have good Fort and bad Will?

    -Reduced cost of Claim Spell.
    -Added Improved Claim Spell - check it out.
    Better, but I still am not too fond of it. The non-improved version is still pretty much a ribbon. It offers a pretty small benefit that is inconsistent, impractical to improve, and still not too cheap.

    I think one of my problems is that it uses an in-combat resource for out-of-combat benefits, which leads to silly situations. As written, you might delay killing the last enemy in order to use a scroll on yourself and intentionally fail the save, which makes no sense in character. I'm not sure what to do about that. Perhaps allowing them to create an animus debt that reduces the amount of animus they start the next combat with?

    I would like to suggest this as an alternative for the ability: "At 3rd level, the soul caster has learned a way to use the magic of her enemies against them once she’s felt the bite of their magic. If a spell or spell-like ability is used on the soul caster and she suffers its effect (if the effect allows for a saving throw, she must fail the saving throw to use this ability), as an immediate action she may try to claim and incorporate the spell and use it herself. When claiming a spell, she must first identify the spell with a Spellcraft check, and if successful, she spends one point of animus per level of the spell and may immediately cast that spell herself." (perhaps stagger or nauseate the soul caster for a round to offset the action economy)

    -Reduced cost of anima saber and it now comes as just a standard item that can be enchanted like a normal weapon. Defined its weapon group and weapon type, critical range, material and hardness/hit points. Changed the gem to deep crystal. Defined what happens with shade tamers using it with negative energy.
    I think this doesn't need the limit to +5 anymore. At higher levels, energy resistance is more common anyway.

    Edit: Can I ask for the Wandslinger to get Wand Mastery at some point?
    Last edited by TiaC; 2017-06-09 at 01:45 AM.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Archetype comparison chart
    Spoiler: Chart
    Show


    Archetype / Alternate Class Feature Class Skills Weapon & Armor Maneuvers Animus Elemental Attunement Blade Meditation Bonus Feats: 2 7 12 17 Arcane Defense Elemental Glyph Mystic Artifice Withstand Spell Instant Enlightenment Quell Magic Font of Animus Glyph Mastery
    Aurora Soul X C X X X X X
    Gunsmoke Mystic X C X X X X X X
    Knight-Chandler X X X X
    Force Mystic (Cha) X C C X X X X X
    Noetic (Cha) C X X X
    Sage X X X X X
    Shade Tamer X C C C X X X X X X X
    Wandslinger X C C C X X X X




    Looks like no archetype is compatible with any other archetype. Bummer.


    Shade Tamer
    Getting Death Knell (a 1st level spell, requires touch and a dying target and a save, provokes because it’s casting a spell, doesn’t stack with itself) as a standard action at 13th level is pretty lackluster.

    If it were maybe a move or swift action I could see it being used.

    How about allowing spending a point of animus to make it a free action plus the casting doesn’t provoke? That feels more like a 13th level ability to me and a good in-combat animus use.

    Soul Caster (Prestige Class)
    "Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a soul caster knows is not affected by her Wisdom score (See Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook)."

    Probably should change “Wisdom” to “Initiator Modifier”, for consistency.

    Glyph Casting:
    "(mystic or soul caster; if the character has the ability to cast both she must select one class or the other)."

    As pointed out by another person, "soul caster" should be replaced by “animus adept” in this sentence.


    ----

    I can’t see more mechanical issues at this time, so now its opinion time!

    Just to reiterate my stance from previous looks at animus-using PCs: I don’t like animus abilities that beg to be used outside of combat.

    Combat is an artificial construct that is started the moment someone decides it is – the DM asks for initiative, the PCs decide to attack someone or something etc.

    Animus-based class abilities that would be useful outside combat, but that are restricted by requiring animus (and thus restricted to combat only) require an unusually high level of ‘buy in’ from all players and the DM as to how it should work – either everyone buys into combat starts only when story dictates, or everyone buys into combat can be started anytime someone wants to. If you don’t get a consensus, then you risk broken expectations – maybe the DM expects you to start combat whenever you want (such as at my tables), maybe the player just requests combat starting by sparing with a fellow PC, or maybe the player has to go start a non-lethal bar fight just to get his animus going to use some class abilities.


    • Force Mystic: Looks good from this perspective – no animus-using class abilities really benefit from being used out of combat.
    • Noetic: Also looks good; Animus surge can be used out of combat, but since it augments maneuvers, no one is going to want to, as maneuvers that benefit from animus are combat-oriented maneuvers.
    • Sage: No abilities that spends animus at all, just animus themes, so it looks good.
    • Shade Tamer: Has some that require Animus that might be used out of combat BUT an alternate means of payment (HP loss) is available, so much less likely for people to want to ‘artificially’ generate animus.
    • Wandslinger: Subbing Animus for wand charges is something people will want out of combat; same with Infuse Metamagic.
    • Soul Caster: The Claim spell class feature is definitely something they will want to use outside combat – have an ally cast a spell on you to get it added to your list for a day. Animus Metacasting is another one that will desired out of combat.




    So I’m worrying about Wandslinger and Soulcaster – they have some very nice abilities that beg to be used out of combat.

    I’m not a fan of the Soulcaster's Improved Claim Spell HP ‘burn’ as an alternate cost – it seems easy to circumvent by just having an ally cast the spell anew on you the next day instead of accepting burn.


    I’m not sure what to suggest about how to limit them or the like, but I’d say maybe taking extra time to gather animus out of combat might work, as would an alternate method of payment (HP damage is good).
    Last edited by ATalsen; 2017-06-09 at 01:27 PM.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    I wouldn't mind seeing a drawback* or two related to animus.
    *drawbacks like in Ultimate Campaign style drawbacks.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvarkz View Post
    Animus Surge's Benefit text in the table remains uncorrected. Should be caster and not manifester level.

    Soul Caster-Glyph Casting
    It still references itself in the second parenthesis's text.

    Anima Saber
    Long Blades is not a weapon group, or at least not a pre-existing one. It's either Light Blades or Heavy Blades.

    Again, the 6k gp base price is like a considerable hurdle (Particularly because it means it won't see play until at least levels 8-9), even if enchanting it as a magic weapon is now cheaper. Similarly, the cap on +5 total makes it a rather weak option in comparison to more commonly used weapons, even if it's just endgame-wise. As is, the only situation where I see it as a viable weapon is a levels 9-14 build that completely ignored str or agi in favor of the initiation modifier and has taken Intuitive Fighting.
    Also, forcing both Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wondrous Item feels like a hurdle in making it.
    Fixed the above table and typos. Anima saber is a one handed martial melee weapon. If you aren't proficient with all martial, you're not proficient with it. You'd have to take Martial Weapon Proficiency (anima saber). Anima saber enhancement bonus rules tweaked and removed craft wondrous item from needed feats to craft. Set price to 4500gp. Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ATalsen View Post
    While I loved the Wisdom-based noetic, it really did scream to be Cha-base from its Wilder influence.

    My own wish list is ONE more full BAB Int-mod initiator. Warder is great but its main class feature set (Defensive focus, aegis, Armiger's mark) just never seems to compliment my planned builds. :)
    Well... we as a team decided that we didn't feel full BAB classes needed to be the standard because of all the perks and power, a 3/4 BAB chassis was fine. I see where you're coming from though. What sort of hurdles are you coming up against or things you'd like to see? Reply here or PM me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATalsen View Post
    Quick couple of items:

    Soul Caster (Prestige Class)

    "Maneuvers: Ability to initiate 3rd level maneuvers and stances of the Elemental Flux discipline, and possess at least one strike and one stance of 3rd level or higher"

    This seems a little convoluted to me, and I'm trying to understand what might qualify.

    seems like the lowest qualifying set of items is:
    a 3rd level Elemental Flux STRIKE
    a 3rd level elemental Flux Stance

    Could also qualify as:
    a 3rd level Elemental Flux BOOST
    a 4th level Elemental Flux STRIKE
    a 3rd level elemental Flux Stance

    Seems like it would just be clearer to say:
    "Maneuvers: Ability to initiate at least one 3rd level or higher strike of the Elemental Flux discipline, and possess at least one Elemental Flux stance of 3rd level or higher"

    Which would let someone enter with a 4th level Elemental Flux strike and 3rd level Elemental Flux stance.

    Maybe I'm missing it though and its supposed to be any discipline stance of 3rd level or higher?
    Stealing your wording. It's cleaner and I think it works better. And above I addressed some of your comments on the saber.


    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    Thanks for the quick turnaround on this! I have a few comments.


    Can I suggest that this be 1/4 levels to a max of 1 higher than the level of the wand's spell? I think that would balance it well for both low and high level play. For reference, that would put the minimum cost to achieve each level of bonus at 1,500; 6,000; 18,000; 36,000; 60,000. This maps relatively closely to weapon costs.
    I... am not sure how that maths, I'm afraid. No matter what you do the wand is going to be incredibly cheaper. Or am I not getting something here?


    This still says "Spend animus to increase manifester level temporarily" in the table.


    I would say this is a bit too weak now. Even at higher levels, it's questionable if this is as good as weapon specialization.
    Fixed.


    Great, but I noticed one more thing. Why does a PrC that adds casting to a class with good Will and bad Fort have good Fort and bad Will?
    Fixed. I either wasn't thinking or was being dumb.

    Better, but I still am not too fond of it. The non-improved version is still pretty much a ribbon. It offers a pretty small benefit that is inconsistent, impractical to improve, and still not too cheap.

    I think one of my problems is that it uses an in-combat resource for out-of-combat benefits, which leads to silly situations. As written, you might delay killing the last enemy in order to use a scroll on yourself and intentionally fail the save, which makes no sense in character. I'm not sure what to do about that. Perhaps allowing them to create an animus debt that reduces the amount of animus they start the next combat with?

    I would like to suggest this as an alternative for the ability: "At 3rd level, the soul caster has learned a way to use the magic of her enemies against them once she’s felt the bite of their magic. If a spell or spell-like ability is used on the soul caster and she suffers its effect (if the effect allows for a saving throw, she must fail the saving throw to use this ability), as an immediate action she may try to claim and incorporate the spell and use it herself. When claiming a spell, she must first identify the spell with a Spellcraft check, and if successful, she spends one point of animus per level of the spell and may immediately cast that spell herself." (perhaps stagger or nauseate the soul caster for a round to offset the action economy)


    I think this doesn't need the limit to +5 anymore. At higher levels, energy resistance is more common anyway.

    Edit: Can I ask for the Wandslinger to get Wand Mastery at some point?
    Worked in Wand Mastery - it's coming for the next update. Fixed the saber stuff. More soul caster stuff to follow below.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATalsen View Post
    Shade Tamer
    Getting Death Knell (a 1st level spell, requires touch and a dying target and a save, provokes because it’s casting a spell, doesn’t stack with itself) as a standard action at 13th level is pretty lackluster.

    If it were maybe a move or swift action I could see it being used.

    How about allowing spending a point of animus to make it a free action plus the casting doesn’t provoke? That feels more like a 13th level ability to me and a good in-combat animus use.
    Yeah, I guess. I worried about it being seen as too strong by those who are are more conservative.

    Soul Caster (Prestige Class)
    "Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a soul caster knows is not affected by her Wisdom score (See Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook)."

    Probably should change “Wisdom” to “Initiator Modifier”, for consistency.

    Glyph Casting:
    "(mystic or soul caster; if the character has the ability to cast both she must select one class or the other)."

    As pointed out by another person, "soul caster" should be replaced by “animus adept” in this sentence.
    Fixed.

    So I’m worrying about Wandslinger and Soulcaster – they have some very nice abilities that beg to be used out of combat.

    I’m not a fan of the Soulcaster's Improved Claim Spell HP ‘burn’ as an alternate cost – it seems easy to circumvent by just having an ally cast the spell anew on you the next day instead of accepting burn.


    I’m not sure what to suggest about how to limit them or the like, but I’d say maybe taking extra time to gather animus out of combat might work, as would an alternate method of payment (HP damage is good).
    I've got some ideas I'm ruminating over with soul caster. The concept in my head that I was trying to accomplish was something akin to animus-powered spells and the martial equivalents of being able to take a hit and throw it back magically speaking - think Final Fantasy Blue Mage for an easy example. I had an idea for making it a stance for the class where you can do that but then that hampers you from using other stances. I think the idea posted above by TiaC might be the more beneficial way to go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Air0r View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing a drawback* or two related to animus.
    *drawbacks like in Ultimate Campaign style drawbacks.
    I'm not certain if I'm going to do any traits or drawbacks for this. I'm open to suggestions because I'm personally not terribly inspired for them.

    ----

    I'll update the master document with changes here tonight.

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2017-06-09 at 05:30 PM.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    maybe something like:
    When you were young, you had terrible animus seizures that left your body damaged and broken for some time.
    While your body was healed and you eventually learned to control your animus, the mental scars remain.

    Effect: You suffer a 5% chance of being stunned whenever you initially begin accumulating Animus for the first time in a day, as your mind occasionally recalls the shock of what the unstable energies once did to you.
    Special: This drawback is only available if you possess an animus pool, whether through the mystic class, an archetype, or the Tap Animus feat.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    I... am not sure how that maths, I'm afraid. No matter what you do the wand is going to be incredibly cheaper. Or am I not getting something here?
    I screwed up writing it and didn't get across what I meant. I meant to say "Wands gain a magical enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls of +1 per 4 caster levels of the wand, up to a maximum of one greater than the level of the spell contained in the wand." Thus, to get a +5 needs a 4th level wand at CL 20, costing 60,000gp. That's how I got the prices to be 1,500; 6,000; 18,000; 36,000; 60,000. (750 x .5 x 4, 750 x 1 x 8, 750 x 2 x 12, 750 x 3 x 16, 750 x 4 x 20) I like this because it allows scaling from +1 to +5 without making any cost unreasonably high or low.

    I've got some ideas I'm ruminating over with soul caster. The concept in my head that I was trying to accomplish was something akin to animus-powered spells and the martial equivalents of being able to take a hit and throw it back magically speaking - think Final Fantasy Blue Mage for an easy example. I had an idea for making it a stance for the class where you can do that but then that hampers you from using other stances. I think the idea posted above by TiaC might be the more beneficial way to go...
    Glad you like it.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Divergent Paths - Mystic playtest thread

    Ok, Anima Saber!

    If the weapon does energy damage, what happens if you do additional damage with maneuvers? Any Primal Fury or Cursed Razor. The additional damage is energy too?
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