Relationship Woes and Advice XXVIII: Happy and Perfect!

[Sholos]

From that picture, you appear to be nonexistent.

Sorry.

... huh. I thought just putting the link in img tags would work, but I guess not...

[2D8HP]

... huh. I thought just putting the link in img tags would work, but I guess not...

Changed it to a link for you:

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Image of @Sholos

[Recherché]

Average to slightly above average to me but I have a thing for geeks.

[Grytorm]

Hello again, just here to get attention talk about my problems/poorly conceived solutions. So hello. Well, I've just kind of given up I guess. I'm never going to have friends or relationships. Trying to change this will just hurt other people. So I am doing my best to just stop trying. Its not that hard in some ways, I don't see that many people I want to talk to on the bus. I live a bit out of the way so I don't have to deal with anyone to regularly except family. And its not like the people who I used to think of as friends ever cared enough to respond to me.

A few challenges though. The one person who actively wants to talk to me is very annoying and I guess my only real social outlet, if I was truly dedicated I would start ignoring him but I guess I am still trying to continue with my program of being a better friend to him. I'm in a class where a bunch of people are familiar and I'm being foolish enough to try and talk to one person, all sorts of reasons why that is a bad idea. And last I still come here sometimes to try and gain sympathy. Oh well.

[lio45]

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Spoiler

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Definitely got the potential to be good-looking, but IMO you should own that baldness and completely shave that crown of hair.

[Honest Tiefling]

Definitely got the potential to be good-looking, but IMO you should own that baldness and completely shave that crown of hair.

Going to be blunt. This. You aren't bad looking, but it's a thing a lot of us gotta face.

Also, orange? Not your color. Going to bet you're probably a winter, but you also chose poor lighting. Don't do that if you are using this as a profile picture. Your angle is also upwards, which is isn't going to be helpful to a diamond shaped face.

If you're still worried, clothes make the man. Get some button-up shirts!

[Recherché]

Definitely going to agree that orange is not your color. Bright orange is a good color on very few people.

[Cozzer]

Definitely got the potential to be good-looking, but IMO you should own that baldness and completely shave that crown of hair.

This. Also, I would suggest a very short beard, especially on the sides... Your face is slightly roundish, no need to round it further. But I'm very definitely not an expert! Anyway, there's potential there, you just need to learn a few tricks to bring it to the forefront. You know what they say about the first 20% of the effort bringing the first 80% of the results. Well, I would say it's more like 33% and 66%, but still.

[RoyVG]

So this happened. Friday late at night (~23:30h) I recieved a phonecall from a friend who was stranded at the bus station in my town, and she was having trouble getting home safely. She asked if I could help her one way or another. I offered to simply bring her home, it was about 30 minutes by car, which was still doable. I picked her up, brought her home, her mother relieved as well. She offered a drink, which I accepted. After I finished my drink I decided to go home, I had volunteer work the next day so didn't want to stay too long. We had a goodbye hug like usual, and after stepping back I noticed some of her body language, which I thought was a little odd. She bit her lip, and was overly cheerful.

The next day I discussed the matter with a good friend and the first thing he suggested was to simply her out because she might be into me. I took some time to think, I asked her out in the past, ~2 years back and she said no back then. In the end I told her about what I noticed about her and asked her if she wanted to go for a drink, as suggested. She politely declined, stating that she didn't mean anything the way I thought it meant. I tried to shrug it off, putting some of the blame on my friend for encouraging me into doing it, trying to recover the (potentially damaged) friendship. She appreciated the honesty though. Sooo.... that happened.

[dehro]

So this happened. Friday late at night (~23:30h) I recieved a phonecall from a friend who was stranded at the bus station in my town, and she was having trouble getting home safely. She asked if I could help her one way or another. I offered to simply bring her home, it was about 30 minutes by car, which was still doable. I picked her up, brought her home, her mother relieved as well. She offered a drink, which I accepted. After I finished my drink I decided to go home, I had volunteer work the next day so didn't want to stay too long. We had a goodbye hug like usual, and after stepping back I noticed some of her body language, which I thought was a little odd. She bit her lip, and was overly cheerful.

The next day I discussed the matter with a good friend and the first thing he suggested was to simply her out because she might be into me. I took some time to think, I asked her out in the past, ~2 years back and she said no back then. In the end I told her about what I noticed about her and asked her if she wanted to go for a drink, as suggested. She politely declined, stating that she didn't mean anything the way I thought it meant. I tried to shrug it off, putting some of the blame on my friend for encouraging me into doing it, trying to recover the (potentially damaged) friendship. She appreciated the honesty though. Sooo.... that happened.

Emphasis mine
Not sure if you're sharing it as a curiosity or if you are asking for interpretations/opinions.. or if you even need any of that.
Since you did share it here, I'm going to assume you want some form of feedback
I have a thought that may mix things up further... if you read her body language correctly, your mistake was to call her out on it explaining why you were asking her out. she may have gone in "omg he thinks/knows I want to bone him" panic-mode and denied it to "save face" or may have thought "well.. I was into him but it's kinda weird that he would explain things in such a clinical manner.. what is this guy doing spelling things out like that? now I've definitely gone off him"
In other words, body-language interpretation should inform your decisions but there's a reason why it was body language and not outspoken attraction. Spelling it out may very well have screwed the pooch for you. Learn this lesson for the next time/girl/interaction.

Or.. you know.. you missread her body language. Maybe she really was just reacting to a nice smell (your perfume, someone cooking in the next room, whatever) or some other external stimuli, and you should absolutely take her word for it that there is no intention of dating or that kind of attraction.

As matters stand, she has stated a lack of interest in dating, and that's all that matters.. our interpretations of body language are pure speculation and wishful thinking at best, and the rule is clear: her pronouncement is pretty much a definite, whether it was issued out of embarassment or actual lack of interest.
If it was embarassment, she can always come back to it at a later time and, in her turn, issue an invitation or otherwise verbally manifest an opening or beat you over the head with a clue-hammer until you get it that she's changed her mind. Until such a time, DO NOT HOLD OUT HOPE for that very remote possibility and accept her statement as final. Do not bring it up again with her, move on from it and stop wondering about the what could or couldn't be. Focus on what is. You have a friend.

[Cozzer]

Hey, you saw what seemed like a softball, you took a swing and you shrugged it off when you missed. I'd say you didn't do anything wrong, and shouldn't be afraid for your friendship (maybe account for a short period of awkwardness).

(I'm better with basketball metaphors, but I'm willing to diversify)

[dehro]

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Spoiler

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I'm not much of a judge on male attractiveness but would by no means point you out as an ugly individual.
That said, I think that the picture doesn't do you justice, or maybe the fact is that by this picture, you don't seem to have chosen a look that makes you stand out in any way. I can't really find any glaring flaws.. your facial features are average (neither hideous neither catwalk material), meaning that whether they result pleasing to a potential date is entirely up to personal taste. My partner is a sucker for dimples, for instance.
Right now, purely based on this particular picture, and the fact you chose this one instead of another one, I would read this as "I'm an engineer/other form of brainy person, and I am most comfortable behind a computer or in a lab, I'm a nice guy, maybe a bit quiet. I have no interest in exterior values and that's why I look a bit nondescript."

You're going bald, so... either embrace it and cut it all off, or go the other way and make sure that what you do keep is clearly and always well groomed.
On the plus side, you can very obviously grow a beard. I myself am a bit of a beard guy, so...
Properly chosen and styled, facial hair can really change someone's looks completely. Make the most of that and you can find yourself actually attracting many more compliments than you would if your beard was either absent, "just scruffy" or a case of "can't be arsed to shave every day so it looks depends entirely on when I last did that".
You can play with that until you find the look you're most comfortable with and that showcases an actual effort to look sharp/alternative/eye-catching.

Spoiler: Case in point, to demonstrate how facial hair really makes a difference, me in various stages of beardiness

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Spoiler: The horror

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Spoiler: The short cut

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Spoiler: The full beard

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Spoiler: The drunken hipster

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Spoiler: The old man and the sea

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Of course, if the potential date you're pursuing doesn't like facial hair at all, that particular advice is definitely screwing you over.

A decent outfit (orange rarely is anyone's colour unless you're Dutch and watching a football match) a "trademark" accessory or two and the feeling that you undertake in regular grooming (grooming being different from personal hygene which is a given) can all transmit the right vibe to anyone interacting with you, and ultimately they can make you feel better about yourself just by undertaking in said effort, whether it yields immediate returns or not.

[ve4grm]

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Spoiler

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You're a fine looking guy. Nothing hideous there. Average, perhaps, but nothing that would stop you from getting a date. I read that picture as either "engineer" or "philosophy professor".

Right, so... on to the critique.

I'm going to put my lot in with the "shave the head" crowd. Or at least make sure it's kept neat, maybe lower in the back.

From the look of the kind-of-scraggly beard, I'm going to guess that it doesn't really come in on the front of your chin? I have similar problems with mine. Because of that, I'll recommend away from a full beard, and towards shaving the sideburns and embracing the goatee that you can do well. See examples below, for how it can look really good.

Spoiler: Examples

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The Rock
SitPatStew
This one may not be the best example...

That would also look fine without the shaved head, and just the kept-neat fringe.

I recommend finding a legitimate barber, who will do the facial shave as well, for at least the first time. Tell them what you want, and they'll clean you up nice. After that, you can take care of yourself for the most part.

One other thing I'll recommend, from my own experience of being a round-faced guy with glasses - take a look at the half-frame glasses when you're due for a new pair. They've improved my own look quite a bit, though whether you like them will be a personal choice. This of course depends on if your prescription is weak enough to fit them (my wife's wouldn't, but mine do).

For the pic itself: It's not so much that you should never wear orange (though it isn't the best colour for most people). But you have a touch of red in your hair, took the picture in front of a red curtain, and are wearing an orange shirt. Everything kind of blends together. If this is for a dating profile, have someone else take the pic for you, with less red in it. Quality pictures can make a dating profile.

[RoyVG]

Spoiler

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Emphasis mine
Not sure if you're sharing it as a curiosity or if you are asking for interpretations/opinions.. or if you even need any of that.
Since you did share it here, I'm going to assume you want some form of feedback
I have a thought that may mix things up further... if you read her body language correctly, your mistake was to call her out on it explaining why you were asking her out. she may have gone in "omg he thinks/knows I want to bone him" panic-mode and denied it to "save face" or may have thought "well.. I was into him but it's kinda weird that he would explain things in such a clinical manner.. what is this guy doing spelling things out like that? now I've definitely gone off him"
In other words, body-language interpretation should inform your decisions but there's a reason why it was body language and not outspoken attraction. Spelling it out may very well have screwed the pooch for you. Learn this lesson for the next time/girl/interaction.

Or.. you know.. you missread her body language. Maybe she really was just reacting to a nice smell (your perfume, someone cooking in the next room, whatever) or some other external stimuli, and you should absolutely take her word for it that there is no intention of dating or that kind of attraction.

As matters stand, she has stated a lack of interest in dating, and that's all that matters.. our interpretations of body language are pure speculation and wishful thinking at best, and the rule is clear: her pronouncement is pretty much a definite, whether it was issued out of embarassment or actual lack of interest.
If it was embarassment, she can always come back to it at a later time and, in her turn, issue an invitation or otherwise verbally manifest an opening or beat you over the head with a clue-hammer until you get it that she's changed her mind. Until such a time, DO NOT HOLD OUT HOPE for that very remote possibility and accept her statement as final. Do not bring it up again with her, move on from it and stop wondering about the what could or couldn't be. Focus on what is. You have a friend.

More or less just sharing, didn't really expect someone to read it, I should have clarified that.

I wasn't really surprised when she said no, my friend just kept pushing me to do it. Then again, this guy swung a home run with his first time asking someone out, so I also kinda knew his words weren't ones coming from experience. I was bummed a little bit, but it's not like i had any less sleep because of it. Still, I appreciate the feedback.

[ve4grm]

So this happened. Friday late at night (~23:30h) I recieved a phonecall from a friend who was stranded at the bus station in my town, and she was having trouble getting home safely. She asked if I could help her one way or another. I offered to simply bring her home, it was about 30 minutes by car, which was still doable. I picked her up, brought her home, her mother relieved as well. She offered a drink, which I accepted. After I finished my drink I decided to go home, I had volunteer work the next day so didn't want to stay too long. We had a goodbye hug like usual, and after stepping back I noticed some of her body language, which I thought was a little odd. She bit her lip, and was overly cheerful.

The next day I discussed the matter with a good friend and the first thing he suggested was to simply her out because she might be into me. I took some time to think, I asked her out in the past, ~2 years back and she said no back then. In the end I told her about what I noticed about her and asked her if she wanted to go for a drink, as suggested. She politely declined, stating that she didn't mean anything the way I thought it meant. I tried to shrug it off, putting some of the blame on my friend for encouraging me into doing it, trying to recover the (potentially damaged) friendship. She appreciated the honesty though. Sooo.... that happened.

Everyone seems cool with everything that happened, right? So take that as a win.

For a lesson learned - while that sort of body language can mean romantic interest, that's not all it can be. The biting lip in particular can be a sign of deference and/or embarrassment. In the case where someone helped her out when she was stuck and couldn't get home on her own, both of those seem kind of appropriate. The cheerfulness might just indicate thankfulness.

In other words, every piece of body language has a ton of different interpretations. Your friend's interpretation wasn't invalid, though his insistence that you double down after she said no was bad, so good on you for knowing when to ignore him.

Good luck in the future!

[Tvtyrant]

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Spoiler

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My suggestions mirror others. Shave head, maybe shave beard or see if you can grow it out, wear more flattering shirts.

Edit: The shirts one is always hard for me, as I dislike wearing button ups for comfort reasons and I dislike polos as they are used as corporate serf garb. If you feel the same way I understand, in which case you may want to go with sweaters or jackets in cool weather.

[FinnLassie]

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Spoiler

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I'm going to resonate what others have said, but will also add something: your glasses. Next time you need to get your eyes checked/glasses renewed, I'd suggest putting some time into thinking what shapes and colours would suit you best. Your current specs seem to really hit your eyebrows and with this shape and the thin frame, it doesn't seem to work. However I'd say don't choose anything that doesn't feel like it's you. Just because another person says "oh, these purple round glasses look awesome on you" doesn't mean it's the best solution for you and the world. But I'd say frames that are a bit thicker would suit you better.

[Glass Mouse]

Real talk, am I hideous? Just painfully average? Maybe even mildly aesthetically pleasing? Just from this photo:

Spoiler

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Pretty average and with a subpar fashion sense, I'd say. You have a very nice smile, though.

In terms of suggestions, I'm gonna mirror everyone else: find some square glasses, lose the hair, pay a barber (or two) to style your beard until you hit something good. It's fixable with some research and/or money.

Some general points to build on everyone else's, from having interacted with too many geeks (I say lovingly and kinda exasperatedly):
If you know nothing about fashion, wear non-saturated colours. Blue and green and red flatter most white* people, and black is a classic for a reason. Button-up shirts look SO much better than t-shirts, but if you can't bring yourself to wear something that fancy, polo shirts and v-necks tend to look nicer in general. Most people and in particular heavyset ones should stay away from prints that center on the stomach region - it does not distract, it just draws attention, and I will never understand why fashion companies invented this. Wear stuff that fits, especially in the shoulder region. Buy nice shoes and a belt (if your body shape is such that belts are visible), and wear actual jeans instead of sweatpants. When a t-shirt starts looking ratty, toss it or give it to goodwill.
And I'm sorry I have to say this, but wash your damn hair.

And remember that looking nice is only a small part of a bigger whole. But it really is ridiculously easy for guys to look reasonably put together.

* I'm not sure that disclaimer is even necessary; it is just my experience that darker-skinned people can pull off warm colours with ease, and so I will not presume to give advice to people whose melanin works magic.

Sooo.... that happened.

It did indeed. I'm glad you made it out with minimum awkwardness all around. Your male friend should refrain from giving anyone romantic advice ever again, and you're a good friend for driving to get her like that.

But please, for the love of Nyarlathotep, never ask her out again!

[ve4grm]

Hmm... I wonder if there would be a desire for a makeover thread.

[ve4grm]

Pretty average and with a subpar fashion sense, I'd say. You have a very nice smile, though.

Ooh, good point. Smile is very friendly.

Also note that "average" here is in no way not "aesthetically pleasing". Average is generally pleasing to the eye, even if nothing in particular stands out.

find some square glasses

Also a good point. As I said above, I'm a round faced dude. My half-frame glasses, and all other glasses that have worked for me are square-ish. The current glasses are definitely verging in this direction, but they're a bit rounder than I might suggest.

[dehro]

Hmm... I wonder if there would be a desire for a makeover thread.

heh.. you could open it and see what happens

[Comrade]

Serpentine's got that master list of appearance questions; I think a few people have found that helpful in the past.

[dehro]

Serpentine's got that master list of appearance questions; I think a few people have found that helpful in the past.

could go right in the OP

[Glass Mouse]

heh.. you could open it and see what happens

Obviously, this thread contains many people willing to act as advice-givers! Now it's only the willing victims that are needed

[Comrade]

I know I wouldn't mind an impartial perspective.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'd need to dig out a photo of current me (although I don't think there's been any between my most recent haircut and my glasses losing a lens) but I wouldn't mind an honest perspective. Especially as I know both my family, friends, and my kindasortawouldbemygirlfriendbutwantsustobeinthesa mecountry are biased in my favour. Especially when it comes to my hair, weirdly enough (might see if I can nab a photo of pre-haircut me as well from somewhere so I can get an honest opinion on that).

[2D8HP]

... (might see if I can nab a photo of pre-haircut me as well from somewhere so I can get an honest opinion on that).

Well, judging by your image in your blog, you're far from repulsive, and may even be considered "cute" by those who are looking for a young man (which I'm not. I'm not looking for anyone besides a bartender, a book seller, and a sandwich maker).

But unless you're George Clooney, that won't last, and in time you will turn into a Goblin like most of us.

Ha!

I suppose advice is expected.

Fine.

Try to look like Benedict Cumberbatch in Sherlock (coat, scarf, and hair, but no hat), and underneath wear dark trousers, a blood red or burgundy collared button up shirt (like the one worn by David Mitchell in his Soapbox series, maybe with a dark waist coat, and dark leather ankle boats, or "Oxfords"

Wear sunglasses and look brooding or pre-occupied, but then take them off and give a bright smile when you pretend to just notice someone whom you want to be friendly to you.

Also, if you're very tall, being overweight is probably okay, but muscle definition is better.

If your short, or of medium height, muscle definition is still good, but being slender (ideally still with definition) is more important.

Sadly, especially for long term relationships, women value wit and intelligence more than looks (so unfair to we who are dull and stupid!), fortunately men value shape and a young face more, so if that's your inclination you may be in luck, until age turns you into a Goblin or Troll.

As I recall, me and my wife bonded over our shared tastes (we both dislike the same things), and we were both "cute" (she still is, I'm a misshapen husk).

Good luck.

[lio45]

I'd need to dig out a photo of current me (although I don't think there's been any between my most recent haircut and my glasses losing a lens) but I wouldn't mind an honest perspective. Especially as I know both my family, friends, and my kindasortawouldbemygirlfriendbutwantsustobeinthesa mecountry are biased in my favour. Especially when it comes to my hair, weirdly enough (might see if I can nab a photo of pre-haircut me as well from somewhere so I can get an honest opinion on that).

I had you confused with the Scottish sailor/mechanic at first, but now I recall you're the guy who started a LDR with a girl from Northern France. How's it going BTW? :)

[lio45]

Well, judging by your image in your blog

That picture is extremely low res, and without any facial features visible..... you look like a pretty cute girl actually :P super nice slightly curly brown-with-a-hint-of-red long hair that many women would envy, and the way your shirt happens to fold/bulge at your chest kinda makes it look like you have boobs.

The good news is, you've got regular features, from what I can tell. Gender-neutral faces aren't unattractive at all; any extreme features usually tend to be negatives from an aesthetic POV. (Some studies merged large numbers of faces to combine them into a "perfectly average human face" and found out the results of such blends are inevitably considered good-looking.)

[lio45]

Obviously, this thread contains many people willing to act as advice-givers! Now it's only the willing victims that are needed

Our running total of willing victims is now up to three ;) grooming advice is actually a pretty natural spinoff of this thread, and it's also totally aligned with the intent/spirit of the thread IMO.