Relationship Woes and Advice XXVIII: Happy and Perfect!

[Tvtyrant]

I feel like I was pretty typical as a teenager. I had two girlfriends in highschool, one that I dated for a year after a "will they won't they" year before (then got dumped on prom ) I dated a friend of my older sister after that, then went off to college and never had anything serious.

I remember what crushes and romantic feelings felt like from that period, but with the exception of one office crush and my friend mentioned earlier I haven't really felt that way since.

[dehro]

Put yourself in a position where you're more likely to encounter people you might develop an interest in. Online is one such place.
Do things and activities that are explicitly geared towards meeting people who are also looking for a date/partner/hook up.
Double dates, blind date, ok Cupid, speed dating, singles night at your favourite pub/club/social event... find a wingman. Once you're clearly out there and looking, you're bound to find a few interesting prospects and, depending on the nature of your existing relationship or the environment you met her in, you can take it from there. I too am an advocate for online dating sites, on account of how I found my SO on there, it allowed me to introduce myself fully and honestly, and to play to my strengths (I'm no good at quick wit or sparkling displays of personality, but I know how to turn a phase and get my message across, eventually...and the internet allows for just that).
Also, I really came out of my shell in my late twenties and only scored my current, and really only, long term relationship in my mid thirties, so you are by no means too late nor have you missed your chances.

[Tvtyrant]

Put yourself in a position where you're more likely to encounter people you might develop an interest in. Online is one such place.
Do things and activities that are explicitly geared towards meeting people who are also looking for a date/partner/hook up.
Double dates, blind date, ok Cupid, speed dating, singles night at your favourite pub/club/social event... find a wingman. Once you're clearly out there and looking, you're bound to find a few interesting prospects and, depending on the nature of your existing relationship or the environment you met her in, you can take it from there. I too am an advocate for online dating sites, on account of how I found my SO on there, it allowed me to introduce myself fully and honestly, and to play to my strengths (I'm no good at quick wit or sparkling displays of personality, but I know how to turn a phase and get my message across, eventually...and the internet allows for just that).
Also, I really came out of my shell in my late twenties and only scored my current, and really only, long term relationship in my mid thirties, so you are by no means too late nor have you missed your chances.

Seems like sound advice. Is there a good way to practice introducing yourself to b people? It has always been one of my worst skills, despite being quite good at public speaking.

[georgie_leech]

Seems like sound advice. Is there a good way to practice introducing yourself to b people? It has always been one of my worst skills, despite being quite good at public speaking.

How do you practice for public speaking?

[Anymage]

Depends on your goals and your skillset.

Meeting people by volunteering, joining a club, or other activity/community is a good way to meet people to round out your social circle. Having more female friends can be handy in its own right. For getting a better sense of how girls operate, having networking opportunities, and to have female people to bounce ideas off of.

If you just want to put up a profile and start messaging people, the ideal first move would be to make a fake female profile around your age and area. (Not having pictures is allowed and even encouraged. You don't want to show up in other people's searches. You just want to easily view what other guys around your area and age are like.) Get a sense of both some clever ideas you can steal, as well as what ideas make you roll your eyes after seeing them used for the kajillionth time. In gaming terms, what you come in with isn't so exciting if you don't know the meta.

[Tvtyrant]

How do you practice for public speaking?

I was in drama and speech and debate in high school, did plays and Worlds format in college. So in both cases I had a team to work with, and for academic speeches I tied people up made family members hear the speech.

@anymage okay, that seems reasonable. Are hiking clubs a thing?

[georgie_leech]

I was in drama and speech and debate in high school, did plays and Worlds format in college. So in both cases I had a team to work with, and for academic speeches I tied people up made family members hear the speech.

So jokes aside, you would practice until it sounds natural, yes? There's a couple ways you can go about that now besides the obvious "go out and do it" method. You can practice in front of a mirror until it sounds natural, or ask captives family or friends to hear your introduction. You're looking for comfort and/or confidence, not necessarily that rehearsed feeling that speeches can get.

This is all about gettimg comfortable with the intro itself, which I've used to be less awkward when people approach me. In terms of comfort with approaching people first... well, let me know if you find a way, because I haven't figured out how to practice that outside of the real thing either.

[ve4grm]

@anymage okay, that seems reasonable. Are hiking clubs a thing?

I mean, it depends where you are of course, but hiking clubs are DEFINITELY a thing.

Also running clubs, birding clubs, camera clubs, and other clubs that can be tangentially related to hiking.

Joining a club and volunteering would be my two main recommendations, too. Just don't go into them with the expectation to date. Go in with the intent to meet new friends, and see where that takes you.

EDIT: Also adding, there's nothing wrong with being uninterested in dating or romance. Don't feel like there's something wrong with you. Lots of people are similar, and it isn't a necessary part of life. All these steps are just to open you up to situations where you might meet someone who sparks your interest again. But if you don't, that's cool too!

[dehro]

Seems like sound advice. Is there a good way to practice introducing yourself to b people? It has always been one of my worst skills, despite being quite good at public speaking.

There are tons of situations, events and activities where you are actually expected to introduce yourself. Find such situations and give it a go. If you happen to know what the formality of introduction looks like beforehand, you can always put a twist to it.. (say you're given a nametag.. you can either go with the Inigo Montoya quote, or with a "ask me about.. " or or with something silly.. or you can walk around with a giant nametag, just to stand out..
if it's a form, give it your own twist.. if it's a matter of sitting down/standing up, do just that.. look people in the face when you greet them, smile, shake hands firmly but not too much.. and if something silly happens or is said that you fear makes you look incompetent or weird or inappropriate, just laugh it off and request a do-over.. "you know what? that came out wrong.. let's take it from the top/start over".. "yeah.. no, I can't live down missing a high-five like that. Do-over?" "I promise I'm not a weirdo.. let's do this again".. or.. you know.. just move on. Plenty of people to get to know in the world.
So you came over too strong or too broody, or you faded too much in the background. Take note and do better the next time. That's all there is to it, really.
Just don't let failure stop you.
Figure out one or two phrases and either use a handshake, hug, or the passing of a drink, whatever is appropriate to the social context to complement your words.
If the situation allows for it, have a third party introduce you (ask them beforehand if that's the case) and then take over the conversation.
Alternatively, don't introduce yourself but rather start talking through a pertinent question about whatever topic is at hand or activity you're taking part in.
"do you know your way around this trail/track? Hey, I like insertrelevantthing* too.. where did you find yours/have you seen the new...? oh.. by the way, my name is..."

[FinnLassie]

Sigh. I'm ready for a relationship, but seems like the other part never is. slightly considering signing up for a christian online service, but I need a cool down period before that...

[Anymage]

Sigh. I'm ready for a relationship, but seems like the other part never is. slightly considering signing up for a christian online service, but I need a cool down period before that...

Is this the long distance crush? Because while those can be fun for a bit, their nature does tend to complicate things greatly if they start to transition to anything other than casual short term. (Which there's a lot to be said for something low pressure and enjoyable in the moment. Just be aware that it's not going to be forever.)

Which is ironic given that, IME, the best relationships do involve just being friends (albeit dating, flirty, romantic goon friends - someone still has to make active moves) until you realize that hey, you've been acting like a couple forever and might as well make it official.

I will say that, from my perspective in the states, the biggest Christian dating service has the drawback of being a pay service. Those tend to skew the nature of the experience.

[Comrade]

Sigh. I'm ready for a relationship, but seems like the other part never is.

For what little it's worth, you ain't the only one.

[ve4grm]

Sigh. I'm ready for a relationship, but seems like the other part never is. slightly considering signing up for a christian online service, but I need a cool down period before that...

I will say that, from my perspective in the states, the biggest Christian dating service has the drawback of being a pay service. Those tend to skew the nature of the experience.

If/when you do, I encourage you to try other services as well, even if they're not specifically Christian. It can be good to put yourself out in different places, to catch the eye of different people. You can always add your faith to your profile on the free sites, after all. Just say it's important to you if it is.

(There's a good possibility that someone who shares your faith, but isn't concerned about their partner sharing theirs, won't be on the specifically Christian site.)

Best of luck!

[FinnLassie]

Is this the long distance crush? Because while those can be fun for a bit, their nature does tend to complicate things greatly if they start to transition to anything other than casual short term. (Which there's a lot to be said for something low pressure and enjoyable in the moment. Just be aware that it's not going to be forever.)

Which is ironic given that, IME, the best relationships do involve just being friends (albeit dating, flirty, romantic goon friends - someone still has to make active moves) until you realize that hey, you've been acting like a couple forever and might as well make it official.

I will say that, from my perspective in the states, the biggest Christian dating service has the drawback of being a pay service. Those tend to skew the nature of the experience.

Yeeah, it was more than a crush, and he had already started planning to come over when suddenly he decided to announce that he's not ready. It hurt a lot, especially the words "I know I'm throwing away something amazing...". We were friends for some time before it turned how it did.

I'm feeling a bit messed up, hence I'm gonna have a cool down period. Unlike in the past, I've decided that it's just not good for me to grumble and mumble about relationship woes for too long, and just somehow move on by getting occupied with anything else. Right now it's podcasts and my thesis.

The one I'm looking at is 1,50€ a month, so nothing that'll shuffle and break my finances. But I'm gonna wait til new years to get onto that. And, well, in December there's a weekend event for young adult Christians so eh ya never know. A lot of relationships stem from events like those. lol.

For what little it's worth, you ain't the only one.

Yeah. It's frustrating.

If/when you do, I encourage you to try other services as well, even if they're not specifically Christian. It can be good to put yourself out in different places, to catch the eye of different people. You can always add your faith to your profile on the free sites, after all. Just say it's important to you if it is.

(There's a good possibility that someone who shares your faith, but isn't concerned about their partner sharing theirs, won't be on the specifically Christian site.)

Best of luck!

My longest relationship (close to 1,5 years) started on OKCupid, and he was Christian. I already have experience of what it was like on there, and it's a very narrow field. I'm not willing to expand my search internationally when it comes to online dating through a service.

Thanks.

[AuthorGirl]

If/when you do, I encourage you to try other services as well, even if they're not specifically Christian. It can be good to put yourself out in different places, to catch the eye of different people. You can always add your faith to your profile on the free sites, after all. Just say it's important to you if it is.

(There's a good possibility that someone who shares your faith, but isn't concerned about their partner sharing theirs, won't be on the specifically Christian site.)

Best of luck!

Hmm, perhaps my uncle's advice is appropriate here: if you want someone who shares your interests, go do something related to your interests. If you want someone who shares your faith, go do something related to your faith. It's a good idea in and of itself, and you never know - maybe there will be nice guys doing the same activity.

I have no idea if this is helpful or not; I've never really wanted a relationship for its own sake (more felt drawn to a particular person) so I've never tried it.

[lio45]

@anymage okay, that seems reasonable. Are hiking clubs a thing?

Absolutely! And hiking is an especially appropriate activity for that, if like me you live in an outdoorsy region. It's a great way to chat, and after a day of hiking the members of the group will usually have the next activity planned, usually the next hiking day but sometimes something else as well.

The only "club" style group that I can say DID work well to meet new girls and eventually get on dates with them was a hiking one, for me. I'm not promising it will be the same for everyone else, but for me it worked really well. You meet people in a perfectly stress-free context (there's no reason to say no when invited to a group hike), and you get to know them well while exercising and getting fresh air, and at the end of the day the group usually stops for a nice meal somewhere.

[kyoryu]

Seems like sound advice. Is there a good way to practice introducing yourself to b people? It has always been one of my worst skills, despite being quite good at public speaking.

"Hi, how's it going?"

I literally used to just walk around a mall or whatever, and would smile and say hi to people. I learned that, hey, most people will actually respond in a friendly way. And in that context, where I expected nothing, it was great because I had nothing on the line, and if someone was a jerk to me for saying hi, that said more about them than me.

But it's a good idea to make yourself presentable and not creepy-looking when doing this. (Not saying you're creepy looking, I have no idea what you look like).

For actually meeting people, the "do things you like" advice is of course excellent. I've done online dating in the past, and I find the best tactic for that is to ask people out for coffee - low key, low commitment. And see how it goes from there!

[Tvtyrant]

But it's a good idea to make yourself presentable and not creepy-looking when doing this. (Not saying you're creepy looking, I have no idea what you look

Like a bear. Bears are cute right?

So here is one that holds me back, it feels dishonest to ask out someone that I don't feel romantically attracted to, but romantic attraction only comes from knowing someone. Do you just ask people out and hope to become attracted to them by date three?

[Coidzor]

Like a bear. Bears are cute right?

So here is one that holds me back, it feels dishonest to ask out someone that I don't feel romantically attracted to, but romantic attraction only comes from knowing someone. Do you just ask people out and hope to become attracted to them by date three?

Do I wanna **** 'em? Do they seem at all interesting?

Then I'll see if we click through further interaction on dates instead of being a putz and doing the weak sauce move of "befriending someone" in order to find out if I'll get romantically interested in them.

[Tvtyrant]

Do I wanna **** 'em? Do they seem at all interesting?

Then I'll see if we click through further interaction on dates instead of being a putz and doing the weak sauce move of "befriending someone" in order to find out if I'll get romantically interested in them.

Okay, but was air quoting something no one actually more productive than just saying yes?

Edit: I mean that it feels like you are quoting me nut talking to someone else.

As I said up thread, I haven't done online dating before or much dating in years and I am looking for pointers.

Edit 2: This also doesn't help me much because I don't tend to want to have sex with someone unless I am romantically interested in them.

[Coidzor]

Okay, but was air quoting something no one actually more productive than just saying yes?

Edit: I mean that it feels like you are quoting me nut talking to someone else.

As I said up thread, I haven't done online dating before or much dating in years and I am looking for pointers.

Unless you're dating your bestfriend for years after you've both mutually fallen in love, you don't start out in love with someone, that's why you date them, to see what you think after you get to know them and spend time with them in a dedicated context.

So this whole concern about "Oh, what should I do if I'm not already head over heels for someone?" bit is missing the point of what dating is and the purpose it serves. As is thinking that getting to know someone and seeing what's what is hoping for romantic attraction to turn out to be the case. That's... got the wrong emphasis, anyway, in terms of causal order of things.

Edit 2: This also doesn't help me much because I don't tend to want to have sex with someone unless I am romantically interested in them.

Do you at least have something of a better idea of how it normally works?

If you're a demisexual, then obviously you have different issues and concerns, since just thinking someone is attractive doesn't work for you for anything, really, and you work on such geologically slow timescales that the majority of people who aren't on the asexual spectrum will get bored or self-conscious about the lack of sexual attraction and either move on or get neurotic.

Unless you, get romantically interested in people really quickly after you start investigating the subject.

[Tvtyrant]

Unless you're dating your bestfriend for years after you've both mutually fallen in love, you don't start out in love with someone, that's why you date them, to see what you think after you get to know them and spend time with them in a dedicated context.

So this whole concern about "Oh, what should I do if I'm not already head over heels for someone?" bit is missing the point of what dating is and the purpose it serves. As is thinking that getting to know someone and seeing what's what is hoping for romantic attraction to turn out to be the case. That's... got the wrong emphasis, anyway, in terms of causal order of things.

Did you read the posts leading up to this one?

The reason I am asking questions about this is because I haven't met or seen anyone who I feel desire to date in years. This has gone on long enough that I am beginning to suspect I never will, which is why I am asking for help with meeting people.

You are talking past this with the assumption I am feeling desire and am being too shy or beta or whatever the kids say these days to ask them out.

I am not asking them out because I am not interested and want to know how I can become interested to begin with.

Edit: what is a demisexual?

[Coidzor]

Did you read the posts leading up to this one?

The reason I am asking questions about this is because I haven't met or seen anyone who I feel desire to date in years. This has gone on long enough that I am beginning to suspect I never will, which is why I am asking for help with meeting people.

Yeah, if you're not meeting people or just don't like the ones around you or the ones you meet, you're pretty much SOL as a demisexual.

You are talking past this with the assumption I am feeling desire and am being too shy or beta or whatever the kids say these days to ask them out.

I'm not making any assumptions about you, mate.

Recall your words.

Like a bear. Bears are cute right?

So here is one that holds me back, it feels dishonest to ask out someone that I don't feel romantically attracted to, but romantic attraction only comes from knowing someone. Do you just ask people out and hope to become attracted to them by date three?

I answered your question. That the truth isn't particularly helpful to you as you're not going to be able to date normally given your particular setup isn't really my fault or something that changes what the answer to that question is.

I also told you pretty much what I do, so I addressed that use of "you" as well. As for what you should do if you actually meant to write "I" there, well, that's the tricky part.

I am not asking them out because I am not interested and want to know how I can become interested to begin with.

Edit: what is a demisexual?

If you're not even interested in people as people, there's nothing that you can do, really, unless there's a hormonal problem that can be addressed medically or some kind of psychological issue that is well into the territory where a professional's help would be required to resolve it, if there is one.

Maybe a complete change of environment might help, and I suppose there might just be an awful lot of people you have a specific problem with in your local area or something that you'd need to find a way to filter out so you met less of them.

As for what a Demisexual is, basically what you've described yourself as, someone who can only experience sexual attraction to someone after becoming romantically invested in them, though some of them it's more general heavy emotional investment, sometimes.

[LeSwordfish]

So here is one that holds me back, it feels dishonest to ask out someone that I don't feel romantically attracted to, but romantic attraction only comes from knowing someone. Do you just ask people out and hope to become attracted to them by date three?

If I may, it sounds almost like, instead of trying to find someone to regularly date, romance, sex, etc etc, you're trying to answer the question "do I enjoy dating" or even "do i feel romantic attraction at all?" And I think it's totally fair to ask people out in service of that, particularly if you're honest with yourself about it - and honest with your partner, if it comes up. For what it's worth, "i'm not sure how much i'm into this person, but maybe i will be if we do some dating" is - in my limited experience - a fairly common thing to think when dating. (It was the attitude I went into my current relationship with, and i'm having a fantastic time.)

[Tvtyrant]

I also told you pretty much what I do, so I addressed that use of "you" as well. As for what you should do if you actually meant to write "I" there, well, that's the tricky part.


As for what a Demisexual is, basically what you've described yourself as, someone who can only experience sexual attraction to someone after becoming romantically invested in them, though some of them it's more general heavy emotional investment, sometimes.

I am not trying to pick a battle with you, I value your input. I was and am still confused at the air quotes about being friends versus seeking a sexual relationship.

Well that is an accurate depiction of my problem in the link there. I will need to think about that one.

[lio45]

So here is one that holds me back, it feels dishonest to ask out someone that I don't feel romantically attracted to, but romantic attraction only comes from knowing someone.

IMO you're wrong on both counts, it's perfectly fine to ask someone out even if you can't guarantee it will click well, and it's totally possible to be attracted to someone you barely know.

Do you just ask people out and hope to become attracted to them by date three?

Of course not. If you're not attracted, don't ask them out. If you're attracted, but wouldn't yet accept to commit to taking her as your spouse in illness or health until death do you guys part in some six decades, that's how you know you should try to get her to agree to a first date, and hope it leads to date three by mutual agreement.

[dehro]

Back when I was on the market, I once asked a girl out because we seemed to share similar interests and I had every intention of doing naughty things with her and/or check her out as potential..
She ended up joining my gaming group for about 6 months.
You cannot know what you'll end up feeling for someone you have never met and it's perfectly fine to meet new people and let things happen naturally.
In fact it's the healthiest way to go about these things. As long as you're honest and upfront about what you would like, what you're looking for and what the reality is once you actually meet, you're good.

[Glass Mouse]

Tvtyrant, I think I'm doing better than you, in that I averaged roughly an attraction a year and have since worked my way up, but I still worry a LOT about this.

My solution? Occasional OLD date to keep myself "awake" and hope something sparks. Make an effort to befriend cool, friendly people that I find aesthetically pleasing. Often get discouraged from dating and hide away so I don't hurt anyone with my broken libido ever again.

That last step is optional.

Seriously, it might just be how you're wired - Demi in the simplest definition. It might also be a function of habit. Getting into TMI territory, but maybe make an effort to consume erotica and masturbate, if you don't already. Maybe you're just out of the habit of seeing yourself as a sexual being.
Is your romantic avoidance tied to a bad experience? It happens. If so, take the time to work through it. Bad associations can be killer.
Is there any part of relationshipping you do want? Reading together in silence? Cuddles? Can you pursue those things and see what happens even if relationships don't?

I'm from a culture where friends-to-partners with no intermediate "date" step is the norm, so it's probably easier for me to just go the friend route. But I really see no issue with that. Friends are great. It's not creepy to start with genuine friendship unless you drop the person as soon as you realize attraction is never gonna form.

I don't ask people I know out on dates (such as they are here) because, like you, I find it unethical to express an interest that doesn't exist. Again, that might be a cultural thing. But I have no such qualms about online dates. Their whole point is a quick coffee to gauge interest, and so I go on them, holding out hope. It seems the Americans among us think of acquaintance dates in that same casual vein? I don't know, I'm getting out of my depth here. But I did want to make the point that there's nothing inherently wrong with making friends.

[Coidzor]

I am not trying to pick a battle with you, I value your input. I was and am still confused at the air quotes about being friends versus seeking a sexual relationship..

Oh. I really misunderstood you then, sorry.

Then I'll see if we click through further interaction on dates instead of being a putz and doing the weak sauce move of "befriending someone" in order to find out if I'll get romantically interested in them.

This one?

Just a reference to Nice Guyism, which is something that one would risk being perceived as doing, even if one wasn't interested from the get go and just tried to use friendship to backdoor into a relationship and instead just lacked the ability to be attracted to or interested in people without having already known them for a while.

[Comrade]

Pardon me for sort of interjecting here (I'd like to offer some manner of useful or productive input soon, just don't quite have the time to respond yet), I just found the premise real pertinent to myself because I've been kind of puzzled lately over the question of attraction. Three times this year I've found myself sufficiently attracted to somebody to think 'I should/would really like to ask them on a date' (though in only one cases have I ended up doing so). That feels kind of excessive, but I don't know if that's just because I went from zero cases of attraction to three in just a year. Or maybe I really am just really flighty with my affections. I feel like I have no real context or lens for that.