El Goonish ShIVe: Damn It, Dan, Stop Teasing Us!

[Mystic Muse]

I am thinking Camdin, since he planned to do his own snooping about.

Plus one of the marks was a cloud, which could be a smoke cloud.

They're also acting very Camdin-y.

[JeenLeen]

They're also acting very Camdin-y.

I would not have suspected Camdin originally, but the notes Dan put under the post introducing 'Smoke' were to Camdin.
And, yeah, at the moment they are acting Camdin-y.

I wonder what his reaction to (what i reckon will be) Grace trying to scare him will be.

[Rater202]

I suspect Smoke is Pandora returned. Any reasons I'm wrong on that one?

Smoke's appearance was linked to Cadmin's introductory strip, inwhich he appears in a puff of smoke.

smoke is blatantly Cadmin.

Dan's setting up a "Oh noes, who could have predicted.,. Oh, literally everyone" joke for the commentary later.

[RowenMorland]

Oh, so is this guy a wizard or a seer who was hoping to learn how Grace's magic worked? Or is it just that obvious that Urynom shapeshifting works differently to human magic, even to novices who don't know much about either?

[Lizard Lord]

Oh, so is this guy a wizard or a seer who was hoping to learn how Grace's magic worked? Or is it just that obvious that Urynom shapeshifting works differently to human magic, even to novices who don't know much about either?

He could be someone with multiple magic spells (we know Luke has meet someone like that didn't get their magic from a mark before he was introduced). He is almost certainly not a seer though. If he was a seer than Luke would know what using his powers on a seer would look like. Not to mention that, unless he knows what the purpose of being a seer is, he would have been present for discussing whether or not magic should reset its rules. He could still have a spell that works similar to Luke's though. Heck he could even be a non-seer wizard. Or it could be as you say and that Urynom magic looks different enough that you could tell, but his eyes did change as Grace was shapeshifting.

Granted this is assuming this guy is Luke's associate, but I find him not being Luke's associate less likely than him being a seer.

[Silva Stormrage]

Also remember that he thought Grace was Cheerledra so he may just be surprised that she transformed into someone else.

Still with the weird effects on his eyes in the first few panels I suspect a wizard or something similar.

[Radar]

And if he is a wizard, his interest in transformations is to learn new spells for himsel.

[Calemyr]

It could be a matter of uryom magic being noticeably different to a wizard, but my money is on preconceived notions here. He was certain Grace was Cheerleadra. And let's be honest, the theory is not without merit: Grace is a buxom, bubbly girl who works at the comic book shop that Cheerleadra first appeared at and radiates magic (or something near enough to it) like a sun on a sugar high.

Then she turns into Omega Squirrel and is unlike anything Camdin Smoke has ever seen. Unlike anything we've ever seen, either, really, outside of her and Vlad. If he has any ability to sense magic (probable if he was a wizard), he might also have a serious and overwhelming sense that something is wrong, here. It'd probably take an elf to see enough to get properly terrified enough to start rambling about fusing demigods together to create super demigods and them still not being up to this particular par, but a deep pit opening up in your stomach shouldn't be unexpected.

I don't know what he was expecting, though. If he knew comic books enough to on superheroes, he should have known Grace wouldn't be so careless as to use "her" Cheerleadra form so openly, and with that little instigation. You'd need to be Elliot to think that was a good idea.

[Gez]

And if he is a wizard, his interest in transformations is to learn new spells for himsel.

Yes. That's why he really wanted to see a transformation (free spell !), and why he can tell Grace's transformation isn't "normal" magic (no free spell ...). Chances are that if he had overheard people talking about shooting lightning bolts and fireballs, he'd have asked for a demonstration as well.

I don't know what he was expecting, though.

He was expecting to learn a "werewolf sort of thing" spell by looking at Sam transform, and then was convincingly surprised when Grace offered to demonstrate instead, and then instead of learning a spell he learned there are types of magic he can't copy.

[Calemyr]

He was expecting to learn a "werewolf sort of thing" spell by looking at Sam transform, and then was convincingly surprised when Grace offered to demonstrate instead, and then instead of learning a spell he learned there are types of magic he can't copy.

That is assuming he is a wizard and not marked or an awakened mage. We know Luke has an awakened caster among his circle (by Justin's logical breakdown of the situation), but not that said caster is a wizard, which is supposed to be a rarity.

[Vinyadan]

That guy is lucky for now, but sooner or later he will jump the wrong magic user and he will end up blown to pieces or turned into a zombie or a brain in a jar. Or a Nanase clone.

Or someone will simply shoot him.

[JeenLeen]

edit/note: I wrote Noah below but meant Luke

I like the idea that he is a wizard. That goes with what Noah knows and doesn't know, though I feel like I'd need to binge on what Noah knows and Pandora's comments on it and Justin's conclusions based on it to form a valid opinion.

I think him having at least 2 spells would easily explain the smoke-form he's using now and the (apparent) smoke-teleport he did back when he was introduced. I was thinking it was just that going into or out of smoke-form required that noise, but being 2 different spells seems a simpler conclusion.

That guy is lucky for now, but sooner or later he will jump the wrong magic user and he will end up blown to pieces or turned into a zombie or a brain in a jar. Or a Nanase clone.

Or someone will simply shoot him.

Depending on the details of smoke-form, he might be immune to a lot of damage types. Handy for annoying investigators!

(Dan's comments on smoke-form did imply that his crucial organs, such as the brain, might not be present in a tangible way. Nothing definite, 'because magic', but seems possible he's immune to physical damage.)

[Rater202]

@^Luke, not Noah.

Noah is Raven's all-but-adopted sun who is also the child-left-behind and probably a Chimera.

[Vinyadan]

his crucial organs, such as the brain, might not be present in a tangible way

Given how he behaves, I guess it's not that surprising!

[Mith]

On a completely different note, any good ideas for thd next thread titld? Aside from El Goonish ShiVe, obviously.

If the Master of Fire guy had made an apperance by now, I would suggest Uuroyms Strike Back, but that doesn't quite work here.

[Radar]

On a completely different note, any good ideas for thd next thread titld? Aside from El Goonish ShiVe, obviously.

If the Master of Fire guy had made an apperance by now, I would suggest Uuroyms Strike Back, but that doesn't quite work here.

Any day now... (bolding mine)
While they will become relevant to the story for sure with all th background information and an Uuroym with a wand laughing madly, we have no idea, when it will happen, so I guess this one should be saved for later.

As for a different idea, has somethig along the lines of "of squirrel and men" been used before? It is kind of generic, but might work I guess?

[Vinyadan]

I think that it would be cool to signal that a major arc is over (Magus got his body back, Pandora was forced to reset, Magic did its thing, Susan and Diane and Raven discovered about each other, Voltaire managed to make his point to the other immortals, Ted isn't a hobbyist any more...)

El Goonish ShiVe: Magic. Magic Never Changes.

El Goonish ShiVe: Dramatically Appropriate

El Goonish ShiVe: Seers of the World Unite

El Goonish ShiVe: Quoth the Raven: "So she swore"

[Kish]

As for a different idea, has somethig along the lines of "of squirrel and men" been used before? It is kind of generic, but might work I guess?

Grace is not the only female character in the comic.

By a long shot.

[Rater202]

Grace is not the only female character in the comic.

By a long shot.

I do believe that it's a reference to a tragic novel that many people in American school systems are forced to read and overanalyze in highschool lit classes.

Of Mice and Men.

I vote no simply because I'd rather not associate EGS with a story that ends with a man shooting his mentally disabled best friend in the back of the head becuase said friend accidentally killed a woman and the alternative is letting him be lynched.

It's far too tonally dissonant.

[Kish]

If we really want just a reference to the fact that one of the main characters turns into a squirrel (without unfortunate implications), it should be something like, "El Goonish ShiVe: Look, Squirrel!"

[Forum Explorer]

If we really want just a reference to the fact that one of the main characters turns into a squirrel (without unfortunate implications), it should be something like, "El Goonish ShiVe: Look, Squirrel!"

Heh, makes me think of Pixar's UP.

Speaking of how about: El Goonish ShiVe: I just met you, and I love you

[halfeye]

Speaking of how about: El Goonish ShiVe: I just met you, and I love you

The Doors had a song: "Hello, I love you, won't you tell me your name?"

[Mith]

Well, as someone else observed, Camdin was apprently just a smoke screen.

[Leewei]

Well, as someone else observed, Camdin was apprently just a smoke screen.

This disgusts me. Not the pun itself - the fact I didn't come up with it first. Well done!

[JeenLeen]

Well, as someone else observed, Camdin was apprently just a smoke screen.

Ha ha!

Though it is a good misdirect, I am somewhat unsatisfied with it since I doubt I would have thought smoke-guy was Camdin without reading Dan's comments (or, well, a forum thread discussing it.)

Interestingly, still doesn't mean Camdin isn't a wizard, too... though now I'm leaning towards him NOT being a wizard, but just having a smoke-form that makes a noise when you enter/exit it (as opposed to a smoke-form spell and a smoke-teleport spell). Also, wow was Luke right that Camdin's power is not sneaky.

[Mith]

This disgusts me. Not the pun itself - the fact I didn't come up with it first. Well done!

To be fair, I stole it, and thus share your disgust.

I get that this could be Van, and maybe a hint that Noriko's in town. I would have preferred a complete blind introduction for her arrival personally.

[Fyraltari]

Dammit, it’s William from Code Lyoko!

To be fair, I stole it, and thus share your disgust.

I get that this could be Van, and maybe a hint that Noriko's in town. I would have preferred a complete blind introduction for her arrival personally.

Van is a seer so he can’t learn other people’s spells.

[JeenLeen]

Metaphysics question on what we know about what characters know:

Tedd (and seers) can see magic, but could Tedd see Uronym tech and Grace's 'magic'? Or could he see it but noted how it looked differently?
I know he realized some distinctions between what works on Grace and what doesn't, but don't remember details/nuances.

Is this the first time we've been told in what way wizards can study the magic of another and learn spells? It's been mentioned that they can before, but have we been told of a 'magic sense' that wizards have? (I figured Raven's senses were from being half-elf, not from being a wizard.)

[Rater202]

Van is a seer so he can’t learn other people’s spells.

Pandora saying that Tedd will be able to cast the spells he copies and Arthur casting a sleep spell without a wand suggest otherwise.

The Whale saying that Tedd "is not a spell-caster" is one data point vs two and that was a direct response to tedd asking if he'd get spells "of his own."

Though... I don't see how Smoke being a wizard leads to Van.

[Calemyr]

Pandora saying that Tedd will be able to cast the spells he copies and Arthur casting a sleep spell without a wand suggest otherwise.

The Whale saying that Tedd "is not a spell-caster" is one datapoint vs two and that was a direct response to tedd asking if he'd get spells "of his own."

Not exactly. They can create conduits for spells, but they can't power the spell themselves. They need wands (or, in Arthur's case, a ring) to power the spells.

A seer can grab any spell they see, same as any wizard, but they need a wand or similar apparatus to actually cast it. The fact that they innately understand any spell they see on a deeper level than even the original caster just makes them even more dangerous.

So apparently I was half wrong. I was pretty sure Camdin wasn't a wizard, and that he was Smoke, therefore Smoke wasn't a wizard. In truth, Camdin wasn't a wizard, but Smoke was, therefore Smoke wasn't Camdin... Darn it all, I was kinda hoping for that cookie.