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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Alabenson's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    And we have thread!
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

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  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    And we have thread!
    Combining Ambush Breath and ray breath seems an overkill to me.

  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I just read over the Draconian and it might be more than a tad overpowered. The d12 HD, full bab, all good saves, fairly decent breath weapon and 3/4 casting ending at level 7 spells does seem a bit much for a single class.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Combining Ambush Breath and ray breath seems an overkill to me.
    I can understand where you're coming from, especially given that the ability does seem to be particularly potent at the mid to high levels (13+). On the other hand, given the requirements needed to set the ability up it's effectively a once per encounter nuke, and the dracocleptor loses a fair bit of power once it's no longer an option.
    Last edited by Alabenson; 2019-01-02 at 09:59 AM.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    I just read over the Draconian and it might be more than a tad overpowered. The d12 HD, full bab, all good saves, fairly decent breath weapon and 3/4 casting ending at level 7 spells does seem a bit much for a single class.
    Fair points, I was balancing for high tiers but that's not really an excuse. I've toned down the casting and breath weapon.

    I'll post some critiques once we get more entries, but things are off to a promising start so far!

  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I might just be tossing the Drakosteo out and trying again with a different angle. I had a bunch of ideas for it, but now that I'm actually trying to write it all of my inspiration has just evaporated, so I'm gonna probably go a different route.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2019-01-06 at 01:50 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Anybody know what happened to the Prestige Class contest? I can't even seem to find the discussion thread.
    It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    Anybody know what happened to the Prestige Class contest? I can't even seem to find the discussion thread.
    Most recent contest.

    Chat thread.

  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    So it looks like it's been inactive for five months. Dang.
    It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
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  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    For what it's worth, I've added some minor skill bonuses to the dracocleptor based on what dragon type they select, mostly to help differentiate between them a little more.

    Edit:

    I've also given the Draconian another read through:
    Overall, I think it's a fairly solid gish-in-a-can; getting Con to AC in the form of natural armor was a particularly nice touch since it helps cut down on the MAD most Gishes have to deal with, and between the breath weapon and spells the class would have a decent number of options in and out of combat. I do have a few minor nitpicks, but nothing overly major;
    - I find it a little odd that Draconic Linage doesn't come up until level 3; it strikes me more as something that would be a fundamental choice when entering the class rather than something that comes later.
    - While I definitely feel that bringing the classes maximum spell level down to 5 from 7 was the right call, what I might suggest is giving them a casting progression similar to a Duskblade's, which would be a little less clunky while a keeping a similar power-level.
    Again though, these are minor nitpicks and I feel it's a very good class overall.
    Last edited by Alabenson; 2019-01-21 at 07:11 PM.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    For what it's worth, I've added some minor skill bonuses to the dracocleptor based on what dragon type they select, mostly to help differentiate between them a little more.

    Edit:

    I've also given the Draconian another read through:
    Overall, I think it's a fairly solid gish-in-a-can; getting Con to AC in the form of natural armor was a particularly nice touch since it helps cut down on the MAD most Gishes have to deal with, and between the breath weapon and spells the class would have a decent number of options in and out of combat. I do have a few minor nitpicks, but nothing overly major;
    - I find it a little odd that Draconic Linage doesn't come up until level 3; it strikes me more as something that would be a fundamental choice when entering the class rather than something that comes later.
    - While I definitely feel that bringing the classes maximum spell level down to 5 from 7 was the right call, what I might suggest is giving them a casting progression similar to a Duskblade's, which would be a little less clunky while a keeping a similar power-level.
    Again though, these are minor nitpicks and I feel it's a very good class overall.
    Agreed on lineage being something that should kick in sooner, but I didn't want it to be too much of a front-loaded class and swapping out either the armour or talons really reduces their initial utility. The whole class was in fact a lazy rewrite of a racial class I had devised (applicable to a draconian race that started with a lineage) haha.

    I definitely take your point about an alternate progression, but I'll keep the sorcerer casting for symmetry with true dragons (and to allow draconians to potentially benefit from multiclassing).

    As for everyone else's entries, I see we all had the same idea of eventually turning into a dragon haha. Nevertheless it's interesting to see the individual spins on them.

    Dracoleptor
    As always, half the fun is reading the fluff! Quite balanced overall too, just some thoughts:
    -Since it's a custom spell list, I'd add all the Draconomicon sorcerer-only spells to it (albeit at different levels, in the same way that bards get mass charm monster etc).
    -The breath weapon section is quite dense, I might remove the ray option (though it's a nice merging of the aggressive dragon and precise rogue concepts).
    -Similarly, ambush breath is dense. I'd consider switching it to a simple Sneak Attack (that possibly applies to just the breath weapon).
    -Treasure Sense may have a typo - a hat of disguise is worth more than 100 gp so shouldn't it be detected?
    -Improved Draconic Flight is nice but kind of unnecessary at that level. I'd give them the 2x flight speed when they initially gain the flight speed; any later bonus should be more about maneuverability IMHO.

    Dragon
    A proper racial class, woohoo! :)
    -dragon body is a classic start :)
    -I'd remove the age part - a PC gains levels much faster!
    -The Hoard chart is a bit much, I'd split the 21+ level section into a later "Epic Progression" section as it's not relevant for most campaigns. Also, if I understand it correctly a dragon has to eat basically ALL their WBL to get the listed benefits - no magic items seems a turn-off for PCs.
    -dragon mind is pretty cool for multiclassing, though the base class should give some sort of progression itself
    -I like the initial traits; will their be more?
    -I'd streamline the traits/growths etc into one type of benefit, and with a less complicated progression.
    -Looking forward to seeing more!

    Drakosteo
    A promising start - the Oracle of Delphi famously interacted with a dragon. Also nice in that it's the only class so far that doesn't involve becoming dragonish haha.

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Dragon
    -I'd remove the age part - a PC gains levels much faster!
    I had debated about having the ages be prerequisites for the levels. Alternatively doing away with the whole age category thing all together, but the leveling idea ties into Eragon rather well. But the ages being level locked would encourage multiclassing.
    But the class is part of my personal project to make HD=class level=CR -1, as i hate how HD are handled in dnd based games.

    One point of curiosity is what constitutes a good range for age categories, PF does 2HD, having 33 be the offical HD of Great Wyrm would be pretty dope.(side tangent i have no clue why this word entered my vocabulary I have started using too much)

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    -The Hoard chart is a bit much, I'd split the 21+ level section into a later "Epic Progression" section as it's not relevant for most campaigns. Also, if I understand it correctly a dragon has to eat basically ALL their WBL to get the listed benefits - no magic items seems a turn-off for PCs.
    The horde is not something your required to do, its an option, and do you really think of dragons and think of their sweet pole arms? Another major note is if i was being lore correct then they should have 3x Wealth by level for their chart. Probably is appropriate to change charts.

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    -dragon mind is pretty cool for multiclassing, though the base class should give some sort of progression itself
    Magic is going to be a trait tied to dragon family, such as Esoteric, Chromatic, Gem

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    -I like the initial traits; will their be more?
    Each dragon family, and species will get unique ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    -I'd streamline the traits/growths etc into one type of benefit, and with a less complicated progression.
    I get what you mean. The spheres of power did that, and I've just seen a lot of confusion come from it. I'd like to hear other opinion on the matter.
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2019-01-25 at 11:23 AM.

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  12. - Top - End - #342
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    Gentlemen,
    Ah, yes, the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and everyone else is men too for good measure.




    Irrespective, I have an idea or two for this.

  13. - Top - End - #343
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I support everyone being gentle :P

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  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Alabenson's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Given that it appears we only have about 2-3 complete entries with a week to go, I think I'm going to give a two week extension for the contest unless anyone has any objections.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

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  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Just a reminder, the contest closes this Friday.

    That said, it does still appear that we're short entries so I'd be willing to give another extension if anyone wants one, but if no one says anything then I will go ahead and close the contest on Friday.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

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  16. - Top - End - #346
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    If wee could get 2 weeks that would be lovely, i have a char to complete and i have to do further revision on The Magos to get it ready before the game.

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  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Alrighty, I've extended the deadline again to March 8th.

    On a quasi-related note, given the low number of entries we've had for the last few contests I've been playing with the idea of allowing people to submit multiple entries for future contests and I'd like to know if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

    My Homebrew


  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    What's the ruling on collab works? I frequently bounce ideas off of a buddy of mine, and he and I have done some homebrew work before (our most elaborate being a full rework of the poor Healer, but nothing from scratch yet). I just want to know if I need to do this myself or if I can work with him on it.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Is my dragon class legitimate?

  20. - Top - End - #350
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Is my dragon class legitimate?
    You are aware that dragoon and dragon are two different words, yes?

    Although the name dragoon comes from a firearm named a dragon, so you might be fine anyway.

  21. - Top - End - #351
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    What's the ruling on collab works? I frequently bounce ideas off of a buddy of mine, and he and I have done some homebrew work before (our most elaborate being a full rework of the poor Healer, but nothing from scratch yet). I just want to know if I need to do this myself or if I can work with him on it.
    I wouldn't have any problem with two or more people working together to submit a single entry as long as it follows the rest of the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Is my dragon class legitimate?
    I'd say it's a legitimate entry (or at least it will be once it's finished), but personally voting-wise it would lose points on use of theme as is.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

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  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Is the parragon thingie nonsense?(it is hard to make a fitting capstone)
    Deadly rider helps a lot with ranged attacks but maybe it is not the kind of boost that helps firearms the most.
    Or maybe I should put a fear/paralysis effect while firing firearms on the dragon.
    I just noticed charging with ranged weapons was allowed.
    So maybe I could make the dragon inflict fear while charging with a firearm?
    Or maybe allow the dragon to deal double damage on a charge with a firearm thus allowing it to deal huge ranged damage.
    Last edited by noob; 2019-02-22 at 05:58 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Is my dragon class legitimate?
    I recommend reflavoring it slightly. Perhaps, instead of riding horses, they ride Drakken steeds? It's entirely possible to add some dragon-related flavor in there whilst retaining the class itself.

    Cultist of Tiamat incoming, either late this week or early next. Be prepared to see a unique twist on the partial caster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    I recommend reflavoring it slightly. Perhaps, instead of riding horses, they ride Drakken steeds? It's entirely possible to add some dragon-related flavor in there whilst retaining the class itself.

    Cultist of Tiamat incoming, either late this week or early next. Be prepared to see a unique twist on the partial caster.
    Made an acf that allows to possibly pick dragon mounts.(or if you are weird take horror mounts or undying mounts or humanoid mounts or whatever)
    Also I made an hypermundane variant and I might make a mythos variant.

  25. - Top - End - #355
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Made an acf that allows to possibly pick dragon mounts.(or if you are weird take horror mounts or undying mounts or humanoid mounts or whatever)
    Also I made an hypermundane variant and I might make a mythos variant.
    I like this idea. But i would suggest ample Bolding.

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  26. - Top - End - #356
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I have an hard time finding more over the top mythos to add to my dragon class.
    Any suggestion?

  27. - Top - End - #357
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    If possible can I get some review, please. I feel like I'm doing something bad, I can't see it myself.

    @noob I'll look over you stuff later and update post with ideas.

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  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Cultist of Tiamat still incoming! Undergoing some core revisions, not sure how much time we'll have for fine-tuning. You shall see the class before the deadline.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanth Sor View Post
    If possible can I get some review, please. I feel like I'm doing something bad, I can't see it myself.
    The biggest issue I see with the Wyrm comes from the Wyrm Mind feature; at that point you're adding essentially half-casting/initiating/manifesting to a class that's already juggling two separate resources and has an absurdly strong chassis. I would drop the feature altogether and focus more on the Mien and Drakeblood abilities
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

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    Default Re: Base Class Contest Chat Thread V: I Scored at the Top of My Base Class

    I kept telling myself this was due today, and so I had today to work on it, but the deadline was an hour ago, wasn't it? If you'll accept a late entry, the class isn't done yet, but it's not far off. I just am not in a mental position to finish it right this moment.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

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