Why can't I join a good D&D 3.5 PbP?

[danielxcutter]

Are there any other forums where you can have a nice D&D 3.5 play-by-post game besides here?

I ask this because I've joined or tried to join no less than seven games in the last few months and none of them stuck, and while I've applied for two more I'm not that optimistic.

-I dropped out of one because the DM said that it was a proper game and instead it was a bunch of ad-hoc dice rolling free form game, not to mention that the posting speed was so fast that some of the players got left behind.

-The one before that, I applied for, but didn't make the spot.

-I managed to join a really great one, but the DM's currently AWOL. A shame, because the world-building was really solid, the players were great, and the story had promise, not to mention that my character had the most effort put into it by far. He might come back, but probably not too soon.

-And the others fell flat before they even started because the DMs vanished.

So... is it me? Or are PbPs all like that? Also, are there any other platforms for 3.5 PbPs besides GitP? I might have to look elsewhere to join a game, and RL doesn't permit face-to-face games.

[Knaight]

There are other platforms - with that said, D&D 3.5 is exceptionally poorly suited to the play by post format. It's pretty rare for games to actually be good for it (it's just not a common design consideration), but 3.5 is among the worst options once one excludes the games that also don't work at the table.

[danielxcutter]

There are other platforms - with that said, D&D 3.5 is exceptionally poorly suited to the play by post format. It's pretty rare for games to actually be good for it (it's just not a common design consideration), but 3.5 is among the worst options once one excludes the games that also don't work at the table.

Is that so? That makes sense, considering that those have been somewhat rare on the GitP forums, and after eliminating ones that I don't think I'll fit in - such as games that close recruiting soon, use several house rules, or gestalt.

I'd like to hear more about why 3.5 isn't great for PbPs, though. Just curious, as I'm relatively new to playing it.

[Temotei]

Is that so? That makes sense, considering that those have been somewhat rare on the GitP forums, and after eliminating ones that I don't think I'll fit in - such as games that close recruiting soon, use several house rules, or gestalt.

I'd like to hear more about why 3.5 isn't great for PbPs, though. Just curious, as I'm relatively new to playing it.

Lots of fiddly details in the rules, rolling opposed checks takes three posts minimum (one post for the first check, one for the opposed, and one for the resolution), things like that.

Combat also tends to be a little slow, and off-turn actions (e.g. immediate actions) don't really work well in the PbP format.

EDIT: I know Myth-Weavers runs some D&D games, but I haven't checked it out in detail. Minmaxboards used to, but uh...yeah.

[danielxcutter]

Lots of fiddly details in the rules, rolling opposed checks takes three posts minimum (one post for the first check, one for the opposed, and one for the resolution), things like that.

Combat also tends to be a little slow, and off-turn actions (e.g. immediate actions) don't really work well in the PbP format.

EDIT: I know Myth-Weavers runs some D&D games, but I haven't checked it out in detail. Minmaxboards used to, but uh...yeah.

I see. Makes sense; I worried about that even before I actually got into a game.

[DataNinja]

Just in general (I have experience with PbP games, not so much with 3.5 in particular), any game that has an initiative order tends to get bogged down fairly easily in PbP. One person can easily cause the whole thing to come crashing down if they don't post.

This problem worsens the more options a player has, and worsens yet further once you add in interrupting/triggered actions, doubly so if there's no RT communication for OOC.

All of these are easy to resolve in RT games, but in play-by-post, if you only have the chance to post once a day, it can take days for a single turn to resolve.

So, really, its combat-heavy games that suffer in PbP. I've certainly noticed that whenever my PbPs are in non-combat situations, they go faster.

Edit: Dang, most of my points got ninja'd.

Edit edit: Oh, one thing I always recommend, get an RT OOC like Skype or Discord set up. Getting to know fellow players as people has really helped my game longevity, to say nothing of the aid it provides in in-game situation clarity. It makes it so much easier to send a message over to the GM or a player.

[Eldan]

I've had fantastic 3.5 PbPs, still some of the best roleplaying experiences I've had. That said, never on GitP. GitP is terrible for PbPs. The community is too big, which makes vanishing too easy. Most GMs I've seen vanish from games two pages in, when they get bored of the pace. The pace is the other thing, I don't know why this is, but posting discipline on GitP is really bad. Many people post once per week.

I recommend finding a smaller community, where people know each other. The best roleplaying experiences I've had where on forums with a few dozen people. Being in the same time zone helps too: I've had games where we managed two or three rounds per day in combat, or two pages of dialogue and adventuring, just because everyone was in the same timezones and we managed a post each every half hour in the evening. I don't think I'd want to play a PbP where people don't on average post once every day or at least every two days.

So, in summary: go to some other forum, or find a few friends. And maybe don't play 3.5, find something simpler.

If you do play 3.5, don't have a lot of combat. In combat, go for group initiative, where all the players act, then the DM does all the monsters. And have posting deadlines, which you enforce ruthlessly. You can't have everyone posting every other day, with one player only posting once every week or less if everyone has to post combat actions. Be prepared to kick players and have backups ready. If you play on GitP, be prepared to kick a dozen people before you find a group that sticks.

[Darth Ultron]

So... is it me? Or are PbPs all like that? Also, are there any other platforms for 3.5 PbPs besides GitP? I might have to look elsewhere to join a game, and RL doesn't permit face-to-face games.

It's not just you...it's the whole world.

Every couple of weeks I try and start a game...and maybe they last a week or two. Then players ''vanish'' or ''get too busy'' or ''whatever'' and suddenly the game stops.

It really, really comes down to people just don't put in the commitment needed. Asking for a post or two a day take all of five minutes is just ''too much'' for some people.

Other then giving up, you can keep trying different groups/people, eventually a game will stick.

[Lazymancer]

Or are PbPs all like that?

Almost all. People have weird ideas about role-playing (story-telling lobby is strong), and those ideas don't pan out when put to the test outside of controlled environment. Additionally, you need additional set of rules to increase speed (which every GM has to design himself to have a chance at anything).

If you want to play D&D online, you'd want something chat-based (like roll20 or rolz) to have the interaction and keep people focused. Alternatively, you'd need to design rules for some sort of nation/intrigue/trade-based campaign (regular "everyone starts at 1st level and we go to dungeon" doesn't work for many reasons).

[Malimar]

I'm in (and running) several good, successful 3.5e PbPs on this forum. (The reasons people in this thread give that 3.5 is ostensibly bad for PbP are easily solved.) It can happen, you just gotta get lucky.

I was going to compare it to online dating in that players/men have to spam messages to every vaguely interesting game/woman and hardly any of them work out/even get messages back, but I've had a buttload more success with PbP than I have with online dating.

[ngilop]

There is a wonderful website for Play by posts

and its not this site

It is RolePlay online or RPOL.net

it is an entire site, that is 100% free, to play by post on.

Instead of GiTP where you get a thread for a game then an OOC thread.. then maybe a dice roll thread


You get a GAME, that has such awesome features as language groups (so the uy who speaks elvish has no idea what the guy who is speaking in Orc is saying), R-mail ( PMs between accounts) Private message ( for in game PMs) dice roller 9so you do not have to look up the command to roll dice everytime like I do), and in the game itself you can have MULTIPLE threads going at once for whatever you want, yo.

Now on to the bad news. PbP die, for the most part. Whether its a flaky DM, flaky players, or real life doing crazy things to the group the majority (In my experience and talking with other its about 96.52% rounded, of the games just die.

I have been a part of RpOL for uhm... 16, 17 years now? Lord... I feel old. and in terms of games that are still going on, or ended positively/with a good reason there is only 13, and I have joined in close to 80 or so games.

Most of the time its that a player Just stops posting, then another disappears then POW! the DM says 'cannot keep going, sorry'

The best game of all time! is a rise of the runelords I am in and have been actively participating since almost the beginning (got the mage spot after the original stopped posting for a bit over a week) so from feb 2012 till now its been going strong, of course there are weeks where nothing happens ( holidays or people being sick at the same time, lol) to super plot explosion awesomeness because everybody is on point for some reason.
This game has been rough. we have had a player die, a character gone though now 5 I think different players, and 2 others drop out of existence to be filled by different PCs. But w have struggled on and now I think w have our solid group ready to kill giants.

the issue why most PbP fail though is, ( I am not sure most will agree to this openly) they just move so slow. for instance its been 5 and a half years of the rise of the runelords game we just cleared out hook mountain and made our way back to sandpoint for some RnR. at a table top that would be 6 or 7 3 hours table top sessions. I think people get excited and then one day they step back and realize that thoughs its been 3 months the have just gotten into the 4th room of the old manor.

[Thrudd]

Because there's no such thing as a good D&D PbP.

[2D8HP]

Because I just can't commit to enough of a block of time for face to face gaming (or even Skype and the like) PbP is the only gaming I still do, and I've only ever done PbP at this Forum (mostly 5e D&D, never 3.5), and I've never used "Roll 20" (I actually quit one game because the DM instead of just telling me the distances insisted that I log into a Roll 20, and view a map. I created an account, only to discover that to view in "mobile" I had to subscribe. Since 99.9% of my computer time is via "smartphone" that was a deal breaker)

I'm going to assume that what works for 5e will work for 3.5:

1) Be persistent.
I had to try many times before I lucked into games that lasted.
And it was luck. I can't descern any clues as to which games would last. "Past history (or lack of same) is not a predictor of future results".

2) Subscribe via e-mail to both the "Finding Players (Recruitment)" and the "Currently Recruiting Players" threads, and be ready to jump.

3) Have multiple character "sheets" ready to go at Myth-Weavers.com

4) PM yourself lots of "back-stories" ready to copy and paste for when the DM asks you to submit one.
Length is more important than quality, I write junk but most DM's seem to decide by word count.
Pile on lots of dead relatives in the back story, DM's eat that "Edgelord" junk up, I'm serious don't have shame steal be inspired by Batman and Mad Max's, yes those are trite cliches but they work.

5) Don't actually role-play out a character implied by the back-story, the "back-story" seldom fits the campaign, and it's usually disruptive if you try.

Why do DM's demand them?

Who the Abyss knows, but if you want to play you must pay some dues, and that includes writing some tragedy filled junk.

6) Forget about whatever "character concept" you had before play starts, make your PC fit the game, including how your PC's interact with other PC's, which you can't really guess at first. I've seen DM's flee in terror when a game starts off with "competitive soliloquies" by the players narrating their back-stories, which soon devolved into character driven bickering.
Nobody really cares about that mess!

7) Steal an image for PC off the "Dreamboats" thread, or some other source and include it with the "back-story" submission. Worth at least two dead relatives in your PC's history as far as getting accepted to pkay.

8) Don't flake and be Civil. You encounter the same people again and again, and you will be remembered.

9) Always be applying!
You can't guess which games will last, and if you don't have "many irons in the fire", you will be without a game.
Yes that does mean that sometimes you will be playing more games than you want, no you don't get to flake.

10) Did I say that you can't predict which games will last?
Well here's an exception: Players recruiting DM games don't last.
All games lose players, but when you lose the DM the game ends, and if it's someone else's idea for a game the DM is more likely to quit.

11) Subscribe to the game thread via e-mail, and post fast.
Speed is more important than quality.
A long, well written post encourages others to do the same, it also intimidates others into not posting.
A short and to the point post inspires others to post as well, keeping the game going, think the opposite of the back-story you wrote.

12) Post off topic nonsense in the OOC. "Boy do I roll bad", jokes, the weather where you live, whatever. It makes it so that people recognize you.

13) Put your characters name (and maybe even a small image) into every post, as it's easy to get confused.

Here's an example:

Riardon: Wood-Elf Fighter/Rogue AC:17 (Leather & Shield) HP:26/11 Initiative:+3 Speed:35ft. Passive Perception:17

"Liberates" one of the Goblin's shields, and continues searching the cave, stealthily when he enters a new area. I'm going to see what's further in

Spoiler: Rolls

Show

Perception:[roll0]
Stealth:[roll1]

14) If you need to take a break, post it!
If you had to to take a break, and you didn't warn the other players apologize and continue. They have lives as well, and will likely understand.

15) Be flexible, odd house rules and trying out unorthodox settings may be why the DM is running the game.

16) Try other games.
Non 3.5 and 5e D&D games have much better GM to player ratios.
I'm playing a game of Pendragon, which is awesome, and I didn't have to stress about will my "back-story" be accepted among the many submissions, I'm also playing a "freeform" game where I didn't have to stress about submitting a "sheet", and I'm playing a 5e game (maybe two depending if anyone posts again) where I had a sheet and a back-story pre-made, plus a "homebrew" system (pending another posts).

17) If you have a "snowflake" non-core class you want to play, submit all the rules.

18) Be the DM/GM!
Way better ratio that way.
Too much work?
How about a simplified system. Here's one:

1) GM describes a scene.
2) Player says an action that their PC attempts.
3) GM decides if the PC has no chance of success, no chance of failure, or a partial chance of success.
4) If a partial chance of success, GM makes up on the spot a percentage chance of success.
5) Player rolls D100 (two 0-9 twenty-siders once upon a time).
6) If the player rolls under the made up number their PC succeeds in attempting the task, if over the PC fails.
7) GM narrates the immediate consequences until it's time to again ask, "what do you do".
8) Repeat.

---

I'm playing in three in-progress games (people have posted today), two maybe games (people have posted this month), and I've played many used-to-be games this year.


Two games have lasted more than four months, one of which just had a post today, and I really couldn't have predicted which games would last.

By patient and persistent.

Good luck.

[Knaight]

I'm playing a game of Pendragon,

I believe the technical term for this is "at long last".

[2D8HP]

I believe the technical term for this is "at long last".

After 32 years and four editions!

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Its difficult to find one good girlfriend (or boyfriend) or wife that you feel like hanging with after awhile. I don't see why finding players for a difficult game (3.5) should be any easier.