4 skill points for a feat

[RAGE KING!]

theres a problem with four skill points per feat:

im going to assume that the fighters and barbarians in this example have 10 int.

- keep in mind that fighters are limited to fighter bonus feats, while the foru skill points thing is for any feat.

- though admittedly, certain feats require certain fighter levels to take.

barbarian/fighters

Barbarian level 1 = 14 skill points (or 10 skill points and any bonus feat) - assuming he took literacy.

fighter level 1= 8 skill points, and a fighter bonus feat.

- a level one barbarian can have just as many feats and more skill points then a level 1 fighter and also have class features.

putting this aside, a barbarian gets 2 more skill points per level than a fighter, allowing him to keep up with the fighters bonus feats, have the same number of skill points, and still have class features.

a level 4 fighter has 5 feats, and 14 skill points

a level 4 barbarian using the above method has 18 skill points and 5 feats. AND class features.

- the 4 skill points for a feat idea is stupid.

[magicwalker]

Where is this?

[Pink]

It might help your argument if you showed...some credible source that actually suggested this already. Like, some page in a book that suggests this as a variant?

[Drider]

and a rogue can usually have a +2 modifier with int (usually) and just use umd, carry a wand of silence, invis, and fly, and knockand be a feat getting machine, feats are WAY better than just 4 skill points. you would need to get rid of AT LEAST 1-3 LEVELS worth of skill points, depending on the class...unless you get a crappy feat

[Behold_the_Void]

Good thing you can't get 4 skill points for a feat then.

And by the way, if the Fighter and the Barbarian are dumping all their feats on skill points, they're going to be REALLY crappy at what their class is built around, i.e. frontline combat.

Well, crappier than normal.

[Tallis]

Are you talking about some sort of house rule? Or is this in reference to feats like alertness that give a +2 bonus to 2 skills (thus totaling 4 skill points)?

[Jasdoif]

...are you talking about spending four skill points to get a feat, or spending a feat to get four skill points?

Because Open Minded gives you five skill points.

[Lucky]

...

What the crap are you talking about?

[Gralamin]

...are you talking about spending four skill points to get a feat, or spending a feat to get four skill points?

Because Open Minded gives you five skill points.

I was going to link that. I shall have revenge Jasdoif!

[brian c]

I was going to link that. I shall have revenge Jasdoif!

Me too. We can plot together.

[Hazkali]

The way I read it implies that Rage King thinks that one can buy Feats with 4 Skill Points. Which, under RAW, is impossible, and even the very idea is silly. Any DM allowing such a thing should be fed to Dire Penguins at the earliest opportunity.

[Jasdoif]

The way I read it implies that Rage King thinks that one can buy Feats with 4 Skill Points. Which, under RAW, is impossible, and even the very idea is silly. Any DM allowing such a thing should be fed to Dire Penguins at the earliest opportunity.

Especially if Open Minded is involved. "I'm going to buy a feat with four skill points. I'm taking that feat that gives me five skill points. Gonna buy another feat with four of those, 'kay?"

[Arbitrarity]

*Looks at IH Thief class*
*Looks at 18 INT*
*Smiles slowly and evilly*

It's only 16 bonus feats at level 1, right?

Oh, and where did this "idea" come from? It has no supporting basis, makes no sense whatsoever, and appears to have sprung into existence spontaneously.

[Evil DM Mark3]

The problem is I know of one DM (who labels himslef as houseruley, no decent DM tries to heavily alter DnD, all decent DMs can see that it can't take heavy modification and just build from the SRD) who has a 3 points to feat trade off. As well as a feat to four points trade (yes you read that right) the right to hold off assizing skills and feats until you need to use them, the requirement that you use a skil before you upgrade it. ("My my I am a powerful wizard who has not come across any other spellcasters. therefore I cannot improve my Spellcraft despite getting 9th level spells now.") Fumble tables and the king of all dumb house rules the -10 on nat 1, +10 on nat 20 rule for skills. Seriously, a guy has to have a +25 modifier before he can climb the trees he has lived in all his life with no chance of falling now?

[valadil]

theres a problem with four skill points per feat:

Yeah. It's not in any book and not something any sane DM would institute. Letting rogues gain 2 feats per level is just dumb. *Maybe* having someone give up all their skill points for 2 levels with a minimum number of skill points given up, maybe that would be worth a feat. (Min number to offset the negative int 1skill per level fighters and all for 2 levels to offset high int wizards and rogues gaining a feat per level with skill points left over.)

[bigbaddragon]

My DM employs a houserule involving skill points and feats. He made it up in order to make our characters more skillful and to give us the opportunity to get a few extra feats and it works pretty well for our characters. It goes like this:

1) All classes and prestige classes that get two skill points per level now gain four skill points per level

2) All characters get one additional skill point per level regardless of their class and race

3) We get a new skill called "Feat". For each five ranks in that skill you get one bonus feat for which you meet the requirements. All classes treat this skill as class skill when determining max number of ranks. When buying ranks in the "Feat skill" it is treated as a cross-class skill if you get more than four skill points per level, otherwise it is treated as a class skill.

Bottom line is that you can get four bonus feats this way (at level 2, 7, 12 and 17 earliest) but you decide when you want to put ranks in the "Feat skill" and it costs you either five or ten skill points per feat depending on how many skill points you gain per level. Also, Able Learner feat doesn't reduce the cost of "Feat skill" rank if its a cross-class skill for you.

This is my favorite houserule and it has proven to be a great boon.

[LotharBot]

IIRC one of the books mentions that, if you're designing a custom class, to treat 4 skill points per level as approximately equal to a series of bonus feats (maybe 3-4 bonus feats over a 20-level progression?)

I don't remember what book it came out of, I only remember that it was talking about building custom classes.

[goat]

Letting rogues gain 2 feats per level is just dumb... ...(Min number to offset the negative int 1skill per level fighters and all for 2 levels to offset high int wizards and rogues gaining a feat per level with skill points left over.)

Really, if a rogue by level 4 wouldn't be capable of buying 2 feats every level AND having at least 4 skill points left over for whatever skills fit their role, I'd consider them an odd rogue. If they really wanted, I'm sure there are some interesting builds that could be made with 3-4 feats a level + sneak attack, evasion and uncanny dodge.

[Damionte]

He's not implying you can buy skill points with feats. Most of the Skill based feats in the PHB give you 4 ranks worth of bonus. Leading to the argument that Wizards seems to feel that 4 skill points is apparantly = to a feat.

[ArmorArmadillo]

He's not implying you can buy skill points with feats. Most of the Skill based feats in the PHB give you 4 ranks worth of bonus. Leading to the argument that Wizards seems to feel that 4 skill points is apparantly = to a feat.

Well, I don't know anyone who ever takes those feats, so I'm inclined to agree.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, considering those feats don't alter their bonuses dependent on your class skills, I would venture to say that one feat = 8 skill points. Take a fighter who takes Stealthy, for example. That'd be 8 points otherwise, which is slightly more reasonable.

[goat]

Playing a human, martial-feats rogue with 18 int, no skills, and 9 feats at level 1 could be hilarious.

[Gralamin]

Playing a human, martial-feats rogue with 18 int, no skills, and 9 feats at level 1 could be hilarious.

Human +1 Feat
Rogue +1 Feat
Level 1 +1 Feat
12 Skill points/level, 48 at level 1.
48/8 = 6 Feats
Total 9 feats

That would be hilarious... Maybe a maximum of your level in feats gained this way? (Or half your level, rounded up)

[spotmarkedx]

My DM employs a houserule involving skill points and feats. He made it up in order to make our characters more skillful and to give us the opportunity to get a few extra feats and it works pretty well for our characters. It goes like this:

1) All classes and prestige classes that get two skill points per level now gain four skill points per level

2) All characters get one additional skill point per level regardless of their class and race

3) We get a new skill called "Feat". For each five ranks in that skill you get one bonus feat for which you meet the requirements. All classes treat this skill as class skill when determining max number of ranks. When buying ranks in the "Feat skill" it is treated as a cross-class skill if you get more than four skill points per level, otherwise it is treated as a class skill.

Bottom line is that you can get four bonus feats this way (at level 2, 7, 12 and 17 earliest) but you decide when you want to put ranks in the "Feat skill" and it costs you either five or ten skill points per feat depending on how many skill points you gain per level. Also, Able Learner feat doesn't reduce the cost of "Feat skill" rank if its a cross-class skill for you.

This is my favorite houserule and it has proven to be a great boon.

Ouch. I'd never play a skill-monkey character in this game. Their niche is already eroded by the low skill classes being the only ones to get skill point boosts, but they also (?!) have to pay a higher premium to buy a feat? No thanks.

But hey! Clerics and Wizards win! It really was unfortunate that they were falling behind in the skill and feat areas as compared to other classes. I'm glad they get a boost there.

I think the Feat skill concept has merit as a way to allow feat purchases with skill points, but keep it from being overused, but the rest of that house rule feels way off (imo, ymmv).

edit: the balance of all of this could be altered back for the better with one easy change. The characters that need to pay into the Feat skill as if it were crossclass (2 for 1) are any class that has had its skill points artificially raised to four/level

[Krrth]

This sounds kinda similar to the training point system in Everquest. 5 training points a level, spend 'em as you wish.

[RAGE KING!]

The way I read it implies that Rage King thinks that one can buy Feats with 4 Skill Points. Which, under RAW, is impossible, and even the very idea is silly. Any DM allowing such a thing should be fed to Dire Penguins at the earliest opportunity.

...thats really my point.

- and im not saying thats a common rule, im saying ive seen it used before.

[horseboy]

Ouch. I'd never play a skill-monkey character in this game. Their niche is already eroded by the low skill classes being the only ones to get skill point boosts, but they also (?!) have to pay a higher premium to buy a feat? No thanks.

Okay, I've REALLY got to know, where does this fallacy keep coming from that giving the fighter a couple more skill points is suddenly going to make the rogue COMPLETELY obsolete? Do you never have a night where you have to climb a cliff, swim somewhere, jump over a chasm (wanna try and jump a chasm while carrying 150#?). Does everything in your dungeons march down the middle of the hallway, shouting a challenge to anything that comes near? Has there never been a time when it would be nice that the entire party be able to sneak past some something nasty? Do all the mobs have tattoos of their stats in common on their foreheads that every character is to know?

While the skill system is a good thing in general, the classes don't even get enough points to be decent stereotypes, let alone an individual.

[Hagentai]

What stops any monster from milking the high holy hell out of this if your a dm? Or hell a Dragon? If you made it some fighter only method that might be something. Might be.

[Hagentai]

...thats really my point.

- and im not saying thats a common rule, im saying ive seen it used before.

We've all played d and d here. And we've all seen some pretty out there house rules. Perhaps at if this was something that could only be done once and only at first level that would be nearly as bad.

[bigbaddragon]

Ouch. I'd never play a skill-monkey character in this game. Their niche is already eroded by the low skill classes being the only ones to get skill point boosts, but they also (?!) have to pay a higher premium to buy a feat? No thanks.

All characters also get one more extra skill point per level so the skill monkeys are not downed the way you think they are, they can spend 5 bonus points and 5 of their own if they want the feat and nobody is making them to do that, its just an option.

But hey! Clerics and Wizards win! It really was unfortunate that they were falling behind in the skill and feat areas as compared to other classes. I'm glad they get a boost there.

Clerics, Fighters and all other classes with 2 skill points per level. Two skill points per level is just lame.

I think the Feat skill concept has merit as a way to allow feat purchases with skill points, but keep it from being overused, but the rest of that house rule feels way off (imo, ymmv).

Don't worry its not overused. You can get four feats this way (one by level 2, two by level 7, three by level 12 and four by level 17) and thats it.

edit: the balance of all of this could be altered back for the better with one easy change. The characters that need to pay into the Feat skill as if it were crossclass (2 for 1) are any class that has had its skill points artificially raised to four/level

Denying them that extra skill point per level that all characters get would be better I think.

It would be nice from me to also mention that this only applies to PCs, not NPCs or monsters.