D&D Group Shutdown as "illegal gambling house"

[napoleon_in_rag]

So a friend I went to High School with who I haven't seen in years just posted this on Social Media. I have edited out any references to specific people or locations but this is actually happening back where I grew up.

Just found out our Sunday / Fun Day / Dungeons and Dragons group has been labeled "an illegal gaming house operating and in violation of zoning ordinances and State law."
What the F%&k?!!! Just because some disgruntled neighbor sees a bunch of vehicles pull up every Sunday. Then goes on social media like Facebook and observes images of dice and other material they have no idea what it is we are playing. But suspect it must be a gambling house. Has to butt in and make a complaint with the Town.
The fine is $1,000 and/or jail time. Plus, $1,000 a day if we don't stop playing from the time we were served! The court date is set on Thursday, August 17th at the Town Hall.
Un-freaken-believable

[Jay R]

I note that your heading says "gambling house", but the quote says, "Gaming house". Those are not synonyms.

I would consult a lawyer immediately. Find out what the statute is, and what evidence they have.

Obviously, I'd listen to the lawyer, but my impulse is to go to court, concede the point that I was playing a game (which is perfectly legal), and ask the prosecution for their evidence that money was involved.

[Haldir]

This won't even hit a judge. If a police officer comes to issue a citation without a warrant, clearly explain to him what you are doing. If he comes with a warrant invite him to roll up a character. Even if for some idiotic reason the officer does issue a citation, any lawyer worth their salt during prosecution can see reasonable doubt this far away.

[TheYell]

Get a zoning rights lawyer. Tell him all the facts:

How many people attended and at what times? Where do they park? Was a basic fee charged for covering food? Was there a general advertisement of the game online?
Did the police ever swing by to regulate noise or traffic? Not even once?

Get an emergency hearing to continue meeting up to the August 17th hearing date.

Do you know who phoned in the complaint? Try to find out, you may want to sue for malicious prosecution, get back your legal fees.

Don't try to fight it without a lawyer, the law is RAI and you're not current on the literature. A zoning rights attorney will have the right citations at his fingertips. It's your first amendment right to assemble versus the state's police power.

Best case law is what we call "on four wheels" so IF there is another case involving D&D in a private home in your state then you have a perfect precedent.
If not, you need some state or federal authority for the notion that people can gather in private homes without punishment.

What state is it in BTW?

[JAL_1138]

Get an attorney ASAP. The legal system is baffling enough to lawyers; it's not an easy thing for nonlawyers to navigate. There's always the slim possibility the state law is weird and wonky, but this isn't likely to result in any fine or jail time once it gets to court. It's not likely to even get to trial (but, of course, it might).

Malicious prosecution/malicious use of process is extremely hard to get to stick, even in a case like this, but it's still worth looking into. It's hard to prove the components of it, particularly intent.

[TheYell]

Should be noted you can lose any case by not showing up to argue, so don't fail to appear in opposition.

[ORione]

OP says this happened to a friend, not themself. I think this thread was more sharing a story than asking for advice. Why are you all giving advice?

[Anonymouswizard]

OP says this happened to a friend, not themself. I think this thread was more sharing a story than asking for advice. Why are you all giving advice?

For him to pass along to his friend?

[Blackhawk748]

Wow, didn't think people this stupid still existed. That or they are just a collassal D-bag, either way, tell your buddy to get a lawyer, get this crap thrown out and then sue whoever filed this, cuz this is BS of the highest order.

If not, you need some state or federal authority for the notion that people can gather in private homes without punishment.

If this goes south, suddenly theres precedent for punishing people for gathering in their home, which is disturbing.

[TheYell]

OP says this happened to a friend, not themself. I think this thread was more sharing a story than asking for advice. Why are you all giving advice?

I'd hate to hear his friend got banned from having his game and owed thousands of dollars because he didn't fight a winnable argument. I mean, unless you're hosting a 300-man tournament every weekend for a cover charge, a D&D game ought to be free from interference from code enforcement.

[Hackulator]

OP says this happened to a friend, not themself. I think this thread was more sharing a story than asking for advice. Why are you all giving advice?

Is this your first time on the internet?

[FreddyNoNose]

OP says this happened to a friend, not themself. I think this thread was more sharing a story than asking for advice. Why are you all giving advice?

When people open up their piehole to talk about something like this expect a response. If it is just a rant, it should be noted as such.

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Please remember that giving legal advice is considered an Inappropriate Topic.

Professional Advice: Please do not give any form of professional advice to other posters, whether it is solicited or not, even if you are a licensed professional in that field (and especially if you are not). This includes (but is not limited to) legal, financial planning, psychological, and medical advice. As a rule of thumb, if you need a license to practice such a profession, you can't practice it here. You may suggest that someone seek out such a professional away from these message boards, but you may not actually dispense any other guidance. This rule is to protect those who need such advice from the possibility of being misled with faulty or even dangerous suggestions - however well intentioned - and to protect both you and us from unforeseen liability.

[Jay R]

Why are you all giving advice?

Pavlov rang a bell.

[TheYell]

I'm a certified paralegal. "Quit stalling and hire an attorney" IS professional paralegal advice in almost any situation.

[Max_Killjoy]

Given the situation as described and the forum rules as pointed out... let me reiterate the most important piece of advice people have put out there so far -- tell your friend to go talk to a live actual lawyer with experience in the relevant field. This really can't be overstated.

[tomandtish]

I note that your heading says "gambling house", but the quote says, "Gaming house". Those are not synonyms.

Actually, in legalese, they usually are the same thing:

GAMING HOUSES, crim. law. Houses kept for the purpose of permitting persons to gamble for money or other valuable thing. They are nuisances in the eye of the law, being detrimental to the public, as they promote cheating and other corrupt practices.

Heck even the legalese definition of gaming covers it.

The act or practice of playing games for stakes or wagers; gambling; the playing at any game of hazard. An agreement between two or more persons to play together at a game of chance for a stake or wager which is to become the property of the winner, and to which all contribute.

I may or may not have had a relative who got busted for running one back in the 80s. And gaming house was the terminology used.

[Honest Tiefling]

This reminds me of the time my bank kept flagging video game purchases as potential identity theft, and someone from the bank on the phone did cite that they were concerned that Green Man Gaming was an online gambling website.

No amount of calls would convince them that buying things from EA was perfectly legitimate and well within my purchasing habits. Thankfully I switched banks.

[napoleon_in_rag]

Wow! I was not expecting to get these responses. This happened to guy I haven't seen since, like, 2000. I wasn't looking for advice and I have no intention of giving him advice.

I posted this, because after 40+ years, something like this illustrates how misunderstood D&D and RPGs still are. If you gave me a list of 40 leisure activities that don't involve exercise, I would choose playing an RPG as among the healthiest you could do. It involves at least as much thinking and imagination as reading but is much more social. But, in 2017, you have someone who assumes D&D is something illegal on and calls the local zoning board to issue a complaint.

This happened in the small town where I grew up (population <4,000). I remember back in Junior High in the late 80s, I knew a kid whose parents forbid him from playing because they thought D&D was a Satanic Suicide Cult. Things really haven't progressed that much....

[Mr Beer]

Wow! I was not expecting to get these responses. This happened to guy I haven't seen since, like, 2000. I wasn't looking for advice and I have no intention of giving him advice.

Generally when you present people with a problem, they try to solve it; that's human nature.

[Starshade]

I sort of assume leisure games, playing rummy, whist or old maid is legal where you live?
From your post, your friend have been asked to meet up in Court, due to what I understand is violation of the state's zones for established gambling institutions (harzard games as Poker, for Money). I assume it's a English speaking country, so I think your friend from High School, needs legal counsel.

[Bohandas]

Wow, this is the kind of BS I would expect to hear about in the 1980's, not in the modern era. At least they didn't also make accusations of cult activity.

[Anymage]

If someone sees lots of people coming to a house on a regular basis, sees dice and the word "gaming", and jumps to the conclusion that it's an illegal casino, that doesn't strike me as anti-D&D sentiment. D&D likely never even crossed their mind.

And while having to explain to a judge that you're pretending to be elves and dwarves instead of hosting an illegal gambling operation will be tedious and time-consuming, I'll hold off until an actual ruling before making any conclusions.

[NecroDancer]

Ah yes, because we all like to wager large sums of money on weqther the monster hits our AC, if the PCs plan will work, and if that guy will finally help pay for the pizza.

[TheYell]

Although now that you mention that...

[GrayDeath]

Well, until a player decided to do a rage quit some weeks ago, we had a bet running on ho long it would take him to actually pay for the pizza once. We kept dropping ... small hints.

I should have taken "never" instead of "before Christmas but after October", sigh...goodbye free pizza for 3 sessions.

[johnbragg]

OP says this happened to a friend, not themself. I think this thread was more sharing a story than asking for advice. Why are you all giving advice?

We're just killing time until we find Someone Being Wrong On The Internet.

[D+1]

Just found out our Sunday / Fun Day / Dungeons and Dragons group has been labeled "an illegal gaming house operating and in violation of zoning ordinances and State law."
What the F%&k?!!! Just because some disgruntled neighbor sees a bunch of vehicles pull up every Sunday. Then goes on social media like Facebook and observes images of dice and other material they have no idea what it is we are playing. But suspect it must be a gambling house. Has to butt in and make a complaint with the Town.
The fine is $1,000 and/or jail time. Plus, $1,000 a day if we don't stop playing from the time we were served! The court date is set on Thursday, August 17th at the Town Hall.
Un-freaken-believable

First - if this has actually become an ongoing legal matter get a lawyer. The quote there just says the group "has been labeled" as an illegal gaming house. By WHO/WHAT? It says "we were served". Served WHAT? Cease-and-desist notice? A court summons? A gaming commission citation? GET A LAWYER. Even if this situation is as stupid and Kafkaesque as it seems legal proceedings require legal responses and not responding within the applicable legal channels would be even more stupid than being fined $1000 for playing D&D and board games.

Beyond that, if it were me, I'd saunter into whatever office of the busybody agency in question was making this big of an ass of themselves and explain that unless they pulled their heads out of the dark places they had them stuck in I'd have every reason to go talk to every newspaper, TV, and radio reporter in 100 miles. Getting your name and agency plastered all over news being blatantly stupid is a seriously career damaging move. The obvious embarrassment and career suicide of anyone caught proceeding with such nonsense cannot be underestimated in its usefulness to bring this sort of thing to a swift conclusion.

However, once bureaucratic blockheads start some kinds of idiocy in motion it may not be as simple as someone simply saying, "Oh. Nevermind then." This person needs to GET A LAWYER.

[Sariel Vailo]

To the para legal i guess your a rules lawyer. Pun pun pun