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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

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    This OP is currently full of placeholder answers. Check back in a week.

    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy a Start Collecting! box and your favourite Index.
    Or, if you're specifically into Primaris Marines or Death Guard, GW has conveniently set up a number of 'beginner boxes' to get you started.


    What's Dark Imperium?
    Dark Imperium contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    Comments on Dark Imperium forces.

    How much does it cost?
    Placeholder Answer.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army. Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    The recommended minimum is 750.
    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1000 Points with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    Comments on Power Rating.

    What's the difference between Power Rating and Points Cost?
    ...A lot.


    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want at least anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board. Don't forget that not all Terrain is 'equal', and you will definitely want a few pieces of terrain that block Line of Sight.

    I don't like using Unique Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Unique Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Unique Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Unique Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Especially if you play Imperium, Chaos or Aeldari. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    Depends on your army, and what units you already have. Ask in the thread.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Is there such a thing as a 'Bad' Codex?
    Not exactly. There are certainly bad, individual units. But, on the whole, every Faction is playable. However, you must remember that Allies are an intended part of the game - even if you, personally don't like them. If your Faction's entire army list is lacking in a certain area, you may have to consider whether or not it was intended to be that way, and you will have to consider whether or not to bring Allies into your army.

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    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Last Time in the Eternal Darkness...

    Tyranids might be good now?
    Dakka keeps win records. - Except without further information it looks incredibly flawed.

    ...Welcome Back to the Darkness.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2017-07-21 at 12:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    I'd suggest that sealclubbing is why marines are so low on Dakka's list - for every Guilleman and twelve stormravens, there's little jimmy's first army with his favourite cool things and his big shiny baby-seal eyes.

    (Equally, nobody but a veteran is still playing Sisters.)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    The only guy playing world eaters at my flgs is a guy who has been running assault armies since 4th. I wouldn't count the dakkadakka numbers as in any way accurate.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    The only guy playing world eaters at my flgs is a guy who has been running assault armies since 4th. I wouldn't count the dakkadakka numbers as in any way accurate.
    And why should your local be any indication on the dakka stats?

    These aren't meant to be an exhaustive survey done into the minutiae of who played who under what circumstances and in what game type, it's numbers pulled together after someone saw the numbers from the first big 8th ed ITC tourney and wanted a comparison to "real world" players.

    I'm still not sure what the big deal is. Generally speaking, the "good" armies are at the top and the "bad" armies are at the bottom. We're seeing the same thing with marines as when Gladius was a thing - strong armies numbers brought down by newbies who are playing with the starter set and don't know how to spell synergy let alone know what to look for in a competative list.

    I'm certainly not saying that SoB are first in line for nerfings due to their apparent dominance, I'd say that anything that far out has a very clear explaination - A relatively small amount of games from a neglected faction with long suffering veteran players that got a large boost is always going to do well, to the point of skewed numbers. You see the same thing in the thousand sons results and the same with the world eaters.

    One of the things that does surprise me (not having looked specifically at their index) is that BA are still bottom of the barrel. Since the stormraven was originally theirs before it got whored out to the vanilla marines and charing out of deepstrike and general assault buffs, I'm not sure why they've faired so poorly. Is their stuff just really overcosted?

    For those of you decrying the lack of comprehensive research in the numbers from the previous thread, where do you see the issues (beyond the statistical outliers from relatively small sample size factions such as SoB and Thousand Sons)? Who is ranked higher/lower than you'd expect?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    it's numbers pulled together after someone saw the numbers from the first big 8th ed ITC tourney and wanted a comparison to "real world" players.
    What is a 'real world' player?

    Who is ranked higher/lower than you'd expect?
    Adepta Sororitas should be near the top. I wouldn't expect at the top, but Sisters are very strong, especially when led by Celestine and the entire army having a 5++, in addition to their Power Armour, at 9 Points a model making a joke out of even Space Marine Scouts.

    I need an explanation for Thousand Sons. I know in my heart that it would have to be all Tzaangors, all the time, but I can't prove that.

    Dark Eldar, I have a feeling, means 'Ynnari'.

    Tyranids and Orks are far below where I expect them to be. I'll take that to mean people are bringing their old 6th/7th Ed. lists to 8th Ed., and getting rolled.

    Chaos Space Marines should be higher. But if you're separating out World Eaters into their own thing, then I can see that. Especially if people are saying "Warp Talons with the Mark of Khorne count as World Eaters."

    Blood Angels I'm surprised at. Of course, the casual crowd isn't running at least two Stormravens at all times, and spamming Death Company.

    Death Guard is probably at the bottom because it's a brand new army and no-one knows what they're doing.

    Deathwatch being at the bottom is an indication that they should not be run solo under any circumstances. I lean on my Deathwatch units like a crutch. But they're only a small part of a whole.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    What is a 'real world' player?
    Casual scrubs like you, me, and most of the other people on this fine message board that don't go to NOVA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Adepta Sororitas should be near the top. I wouldn't expect at the top, but Sisters are very strong, especially when led by Celestine and the entire army having a 5++, in addition to their Power Armour, at 9 Points a model making a joke out of even Space Marine Scouts.

    I need an explanation for Thousand Sons. I know in my heart that it would have to be all Tzaangors, all the time, but I can't prove that.
    I know I put a bit in there about ignoring the statistical outliers right before that question.

    I suspect that TS is partly people who played them when they were terrible and then getting a buff into playable status and the olther half is probably Magnus, 'cause while he's still a bit squishy, his CC is no joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Dark Eldar, I have a feeling, means 'Ynnari'.
    Duh. I have a sneaking suspicion that DE are in fact more than just razorwing flocks for days, but it'll take some time to see where the Drew Carey shake out overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Tyranids and Orks are far below where I expect them to be. I'll take that to mean people are bringing their old 6th/7th Ed. lists to 8th Ed., and getting rolled.
    Actually, many people are reporting having trouble getting anywhere with orks from what I've seen. The 'nids however I am surprised with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Chaos Space Marines should be higher. But if you're separating out World Eaters into their own thing, then I can see that. Especially if people are saying "Warp Talons with the Mark of Khorne count as World Eaters."

    Blood Angels I'm surprised at. Of course, the casual crowd isn't running at least two Stormravens at all times, and spamming Death Company.
    CSM and BA still bottom of the barrel, those poor guys can't seem to catch a break for the last 3 editions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Death Guard is probably at the bottom because it's a brand new army and no-one knows what they're doing.
    I suspect that this is the opposite to the thousand sons, since DG/nurgle players have been coasting (as far as CSM have been able to caost) off +1 T for a long time. That and the usual issue of being the army that gets put in the starter set to be the NPC race against the marine overlords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Deathwatch being at the bottom is an indication that they should not be run solo under any circumstances. I lean on my Deathwatch units like a crutch. But they're only a small part of a whole.
    If I was at all enthused to keep playing, I think I would like a small DW detatchment to add to my SoB's. Having played expensive MEQ based elite armies before, I can see why they'd struggle however.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn


    I suspect that this is the opposite to the thousand sons, since DG/nurgle players have been coasting (as far as CSM have been able to caost) off +1 T for a long time. That and the usual issue of being the army that gets put in the starter set to be the NPC race against the marine overlords.
    Good point - in addition, Death Guard has just as many brand new players as Space Marines, but with fewer die-hards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    I suspect that TS is partly people who played them when they were terrible and then getting a buff into playable status and the olther half is probably Magnus, 'cause while he's still a bit squishy, his CC is no joke.
    I know Magnus is no joke. He's for sure on par with Guilliman and Celestine (Pay 2 Win? ). But Magnus isn't his own army. What's he being backed up by? I hope Tzaangors. Or possibly Daemon Engines.

    Duh. I have a sneaking suspicion that DE are in fact more than just razorwing flocks for days, but it'll take some time to see where the Drew Carey shake out overall.
    Oh, for sure. Drukhari in boats are next level.

    CSM and BA still bottom of the barrel, those poor guys can't seem to catch a break for the last 3 editions.
    I'm having significant trouble beating Blood Angels; Dante & Sanguinary Ancient & Sanguinary Priest & Death Company is currently rolling me. I told the resident BA player that I thought that DCs with Boltguns and Chainswords were silly strong because of the amount of attacks they churn out means they can deal with hordes - just like GKs with Falchions. He took my idea and put it all in Stormravens.
    So now I have to put GKs in Stormravens.

    But, other than that...Blood Angels basically play like Space Marines...But kind of worse. You have to focus on what makes Blood Angels Blood Angels (Hand Flamer and Inferno Pistol spam), and anything that even remotely looks like a 'Space Marine', you drop in a hole, because then you'll just be playing worse-off Space Marines, instead of Blood Angels. The Blood Angels' signature units are very strong. Got to focus on those Vanguard and Outrider Detachments.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    The Fate of Konor campaign website is now live. And the first planet under attack is Hiveworld Astaramis, with a special mission and stratagems.

    An Imperial player is always the defender (no surprise there), has an entire board half for deployment, and has to stop the enemy getting units into it. The attacker gets a 1CP stratagem to let a unit charge after advancing, and the defender gets a 2CP one to re-roll overwatch and subtract 1" from charge range for each model that dies to it.

    First impressions?
    Looking back on sanity from the other side, and laughing really loudly

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I know Magnus is no joke. He's for sure on par with Guilliman and Celestine (Pay 2 Win? ). But Magnus isn't his own army. What's he being backed up by? I hope Tzaangors. Or possibly Daemon Engines.
    From what I understand, its Maggie, your choice of Scarabs or Rubricae and then Helbrutes or LasPreds, dependant on what you picked out of scarabs or rubricae. Tzaangors still aren't good since they're too expensive to be chaff and don't really attract the firepower that you want to be diverted from your Sons/Scarabs, who generally WANT to be shot with Damage 1 relatively minimal AP guns, whereas if you take Tzaangors, they're perfect targets for anti infantry fire while the damage 2+ guns can go after either the MEQ/TEQ infantry or your vehicles. If you take just TS/SOC and vehicles, then regardless of what your opponent shoots at, he's plinking away at something with his small guns ineffectively (and now that hoardes are an actual thing again, people generally need an answer). You're left with a bad choice between putting wounds on vehicles and leaving their elite infantry to run amok with their -2 ap bolters or turn your big guns on their 4++ infantry and let their anti tank punk yours.

    The +1 to saves from "All is Dust" really is a massive boost to survivability against volume of fire (which was previously their greatest and most glaring weakness) and being able to effectively shoot against infantry without relying on a babysitter to roll ignores cover is equally huge. Doesn't even matter that their psy powers have been nerfed into the ground (especially since the aspiring was terrible anyway) when their bolters remain "effectively" the old AP3 and cover sucks a big fat one at the moment.

    I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the Sons ... aren't even terrible at the moment (though they're still leaning on big red, but since he's actually useful to his own legion this time 'round, it's ok). Thousand Sons and Predators being not terrible useful, what a time to be alive!

    Of course, adding in 9x brimstones / 1x blue horror and the changeling never hurt anyone, but then, now you're playing Tzeentch and not TS and 9/1 brim/blue is a fast way to lose friends.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Actually, many people are reporting having trouble getting anywhere with orks from what I've seen. The 'nids however I am surprised with.
    Those people would probably be still running MANz Missiles, and they need to stop. It didnt take long before the long time MANz users figured out they didnt work right. Meganobz are stupid durable, bt alos stupid expensive, and normal Nobs are cheaper and more customizable.

    This ed is the Edition of Walkers, Green Tide, Blood Axes (Stormboyz and Kommandoes) and Speed Freaks for Orks, which is quite radically different than last ed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    I suspect that this is the opposite to the thousand sons, since DG/nurgle players have been coasting (as far as CSM have been able to caost) off +1 T for a long time. That and the usual issue of being the army that gets put in the starter set to be the NPC race against the marine overlords.
    Well, that and only having the, rather expensive, Plague Marines as your primary choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidhawk View Post
    The Fate of Konor campaign website is now live. And the first planet under attack is Hiveworld Astaramis, with a special mission and stratagems.

    An Imperial player is always the defender (no surprise there), has an entire board half for deployment, and has to stop the enemy getting units into it. The attacker gets a 1CP stratagem to let a unit charge after advancing, and the defender gets a 2CP one to re-roll overwatch and subtract 1" from charge range for each model that dies to it.

    First impressions?
    I can see it being kinda useful for DG if you wanna get into melee and use those Plague Knives, but eh i dont see myself using that Stratagem. Otherwise this looks like a fairly normal Eternal War mission.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Stuff from the community site

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-3/

    The most interesting thing for me is that Black Templars can counter psychic powers using the sheer power of hatred. Yeah it's a Stratagem, but your range is much bigger and your odds mostly better than someone depending on a psyker for a negation effect (also you can re-roll with another CP, giving you a 75% negation chance).

    Based on the tone of the article they're still pretending that the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic is really powerful lol. The Warlord Trait is...bizarrely specific. Only against AP-1 weapons? Why?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    I've played five games... maybe six? Something like that, and I'm feeling the old joy well up again. Honestly, the last edition was a little too messy for me, I spent more time trying to recall rules and remember how to handle situational crap. This edition, I can spend more of my brainpower on y'know, strategy and tactics. It's kind of nice...

    It's really motivated me to paint, too. Got a bunch of the old mismatched bargain bin stuff and the things I never got around to before, and I'm chunking through them assembly line style. Five armies in total, with a few loose scraps, and I've got three painted in the space of a month. Well, the daemons were already mostly painted anyway, that whole converted-fantasy-army thing.

    Guard have been my go-to so far, and it feels sweet to actually see them working. As opposed to, y'know, getting mauled wholesale.

    Got a full box of space marines painted up too, just waiting for the codex. Haven't invested in any primaris yet, mainly a factor of money and waiting for the 5-10 man boxes.

    Daemons are... fieldable. Ironic thing is I've got a ton of troops (Legacy of that whole warhammer fantasy beginning), but not so many heavy hitters. Gonna have to grab a soul grinder or two, and maybe another greater daemon. It make for fun games as is, but... well, I like combined arms forces.

    Tyranids are halfway there. Had an epiphany with those, about the time that I found out my local craft store had cheap glow-in-the-dark paint. Makes a pretty nice wash, with a creepy effect overall. They're next to be painted, but it's taking so much time to get all the little gribblies.

    Then there's Tau. Still don't know the color scheme I want for'em. Might just go Farsight red and white for all of'em and call it a day.

    Ironic thing is I've actually started drawing a few people back into the hobby, just by posting pictures of my forces on social media. I'm okay with this.

    It's a new Warhammer, and the local scene has come roaring back with a vengeance...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Well, that and only having the, rather expensive, Plague Marines as your primary choice.
    Poxwalkers are far better, and with Typhus I would suggest that they're one of the best troop choices in the game. T4, 5++, replenishing their own numbers, and two attacks hitting on 4s (with a big squad) - 6ppm is way more than some troops choices, but you can spam them for days.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    Stuff from the community site

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-3/

    The most interesting thing for me is that Black Templars can counter psychic powers using the sheer power of hatred. Yeah it's a Stratagem, but your range is much bigger and your odds mostly better than someone depending on a psyker for a negation effect (also you can re-roll with another CP, giving you a 75% negation chance).

    Based on the tone of the article they're still pretending that the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic is really powerful lol. The Warlord Trait is...bizarrely specific. Only against AP-1 weapons? Why?
    Ya, they are a bit delusional on that one. Frankly that Warlord trait is just "AP -1 is treated as AP 0", they just didnt want to say that, for reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Poxwalkers are far better, and with Typhus I would suggest that they're one of the best troop choices in the game. T4, 5++, replenishing their own numbers, and two attacks hitting on 4s (with a big squad) - 6ppm is way more than some troops choices, but you can spam them for days.
    This is true.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    The Warlord Trait is...bizarrely specific. Only against AP-1 weapons? Why?
    I guess they felt that handing out +1 to saves universally would be too powerful, but wanted to hand out some measure of 'reinforced armour', or something.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I'd suggest that sealclubbing is why marines are so low on Dakka's list - for every Guilleman and twelve stormravens, there's little jimmy's first army with his favourite cool things and his big shiny baby-seal eyes.

    (Equally, nobody but a veteran is still playing Sisters.)
    seal-clubbing is the best term for crushing newbies I have ever heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Adepta Sororitas should be near the top. I wouldn't expect at the top, but Sisters are very strong, especially when led by Celestine and the entire army having a 5++, in addition to their Power Armour, at 9 Points a model making a joke out of even Space Marine Scouts.

    I need an explanation for Thousand Sons. I know in my heart that it would have to be all Tzaangors, all the time, but I can't prove that.

    Dark Eldar, I have a feeling, means 'Ynnari'.

    Tyranids and Orks are far below where I expect them to be. I'll take that to mean people are bringing their old 6th/7th Ed. lists to 8th Ed., and getting rolled.

    Chaos Space Marines should be higher. But if you're separating out World Eaters into their own thing, then I can see that. Especially if people are saying "Warp Talons with the Mark of Khorne count as World Eaters."

    Blood Angels I'm surprised at. Of course, the casual crowd isn't running at least two Stormravens at all times, and spamming Death Company.

    Death Guard is probably at the bottom because it's a brand new army and no-one knows what they're doing.

    Deathwatch being at the bottom is an indication that they should not be run solo under any circumstances. I lean on my Deathwatch units like a crutch. But they're only a small part of a whole.
    Why aren't Ynnari on the list at all? They are dramatically different then Craftworld or Dark Eldar. Though Dark Eldar received a massive buff, and more so then other factions (IMO of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    Stuff from the community site

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-3/

    The most interesting thing for me is that Black Templars can counter psychic powers using the sheer power of hatred. Yeah it's a Stratagem, but your range is much bigger and your odds mostly better than someone depending on a psyker for a negation effect (also you can re-roll with another CP, giving you a 75% negation chance).

    Based on the tone of the article they're still pretending that the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactic is really powerful lol. The Warlord Trait is...bizarrely specific. Only against AP-1 weapons? Why?
    That is hilarious. Though I like the idea of Black Templars returning to the meta, they were always my favorite Space Marines.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    I'm not convinced that re-rolling charges is at all good on SUA stuff. That's still less than a 50% chance of success, and having re-rolled means you can't use a Command Point.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Okay, so, right now my army consists of

    Rowboat Girlyman: 360 points
    Celestine and Geminae Superiorae: two fiddy points.
    Imperial Knight crusader: 512 points

    So, I've spent 1,122 points, and have 878 left to fill out with various sisters and vehicles. Any advice?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I'm not convinced that re-rolling charges is at all good on SUA stuff. That's still less than a 50% chance of success, and having re-rolled means you can't use a Command Point.
    It gives you the choice. If you roll a 1 and a 6, use a Command Point. If you roll a 1 and a 2, use the Chapter Tactic. Still not guaranteed on SUA melee units, but useful, possibly the best out of the various CTs if you build melee SM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    It gives you the choice. If you roll a 1 and a 6, use a Command Point. If you roll a 1 and a 2, use the Chapter Tactic. Still not guaranteed on SUA melee units, but useful, possibly the best out of the various CTs if you build melee SM.
    In my own opinion, White Scars - every turn they shoot you and go first - will be far better close-up.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I'm not convinced that re-rolling charges is at all good on SUA stuff. That's still less than a 50% chance of success, and having re-rolled means you can't use a Command Point.
    I think its less for that (though you can totally use it for that) and more to make sure that your dudes get into melee. Frankly im expecting BTs to be spamming Vanguard Vets. Also Orks have it and are stupid happy about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Muse View Post
    Okay, so, right now my army consists of

    Rowboat Girlyman: 360 points
    Celestine and Geminae Superiorae: two fiddy points.
    Imperial Knight crusader: 512 points

    So, I've spent 1,122 points, and have 878 left to fill out with various sisters and vehicles. Any advice?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Why aren't Ynnari on the list at all? They are dramatically different then Craftworld or Dark Eldar. Though Dark Eldar received a massive buff, and more so then other factions (IMO of course)
    Probably for the same reason that Inquisition aren't on there, either - no one plays them. Or, rather, no one plays them as Ynnari or Inquisition, but as a main army with the two latter as Allies, which the matrix does not account for.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Probably for the same reason that Inquisition aren't on there, either - no one plays them. Or, rather, no one plays them as Ynnari or Inquisition, but as a main army with the two latter as Allies, which the matrix does not account for.
    Why would anyone take Ynnari as allies? They can take pretty much everything from either army already. They're only missing Coven stuff (Which is alright), the Avatar (which is really good, but not as good as the Yncarne), and Drazahar (for absolutely no reason I can see).
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    Following. Still not really sure why.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Those people would probably be still running MANz Missiles, and they need to stop. It didnt take long before the long time MANz users figured out they didnt work right. Meganobz are stupid durable, bt alos stupid expensive, and normal Nobs are cheaper and more customizable.

    This ed is the Edition of Walkers, Green Tide, Blood Axes (Stormboyz and Kommandoes) and Speed Freaks for Orks, which is quite radically different than last ed.
    Actually, it's been people running a bunch of boys reporting issues. Apparently they're a touch allergic to heavy bolter equivalents and multiple stormravens make orks sadder than most other people because once your stormboyz have been gunned down, you're pretty much out of luck. Speed freak mech armies are reporting a bunch of issues because of how transports work now as opposed to how they used to work, doubly so since a truck only holds 12 boyz. Trakks/buggies are apparently also facing issues (coming up short compared to copters from what I heard). Haven't heard any complaints about Ork walkers however, so I assume they're doing OK for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Following. Still not really sure why.
    Because once the codecies are released a bunch of flavour (and imbalance) will be brought back and it will feel more like the 40k we all know, love and love to hate?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Muse View Post
    Okay, so, right now my army consists of

    Rowboat Girlyman: 360 points
    Celestine and Geminae Superiorae: two fiddy points.
    Imperial Knight crusader: 512 points

    So, I've spent 1,122 points, and have 878 left to fill out with various sisters and vehicles. Any advice?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Actually, it's been people running a bunch of boys reporting issues. Apparently they're a touch allergic to heavy bolter equivalents and multiple stormravens make orks sadder than most other people because once your stormboyz have been gunned down, you're pretty much out of luck. Speed freak mech armies are reporting a bunch of issues because of how transports work now as opposed to how they used to work, doubly so since a truck only holds 12 boyz. Trakks/buggies are apparently also facing issues (coming up short compared to copters from what I heard). Haven't heard any complaints about Ork walkers however, so I assume they're doing OK for themselves.
    Huh, im guessing people may not have buffed the boyz enough, or just not have enough boyz. Im not sure. Kinda surprised that Buggies and Trukks are having issues, Trukks get used for gun wagons (cuz we can driveby now) and buggies are more durable for only a few more points than a copter.

    Strange all around.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXXI: Haters Gonna Burn

    The way I see it is, the game's global meta game is "mostly" balanced, so any oddities in Win/Loss numbers may come down to local meta games and be entirely based on if people are running into the one thing that counters their build. Like, classic rock paper scissors and the people running the rock are variably running into a lot of paper OR scissors depending on their local group. So the ones who find Scissors are finding their army amazing, but the people who found the people running Paper are struggling.

    Its also effected by people's builds suddenly not being the best build and them being mad their build is no longer top. Such as all the Suit Tau finding Fire Warriors the best and now are sitting with their Riptides and huge mobs of Crisis wondering why the new edition sucks so much. Makes me wonder how NidZilla is doing now that Hordes are King. Are they also whining, or is NidZilla as good as BugSwarm Nids? I suspect that Space Marine players are doing the Razorback spam like they are, mostly cause that's the main part of their old 7th Ed army that still works, even if they have to jump through hoops to use it. Do what you can to keep using your old models, even if it seems weird or wrong.

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