A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Is Gandalf an allegorical Jesus?

    This was a tangential conversation in a Wolverine thread, but there was enough discussion that I think it could use its own topic. Basically it was a debate on whether Gandalf is a Christ stand-in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hushdawg View Post
    actually Gandalf is very much a Christ figure in LOTR. Most literary critics agree with that assessment.
    Quote Originally Posted by .... View Post
    Gandalf was an angel who died to save Mankind from the servant of Satan and after he died fighting an demon he was sent back by heaven to continue to protect Mankind.
    Jesus didn't die fighting a demon. And he wasn't just an angel, he was supposed to be God. The Christian mythos says he died not to save mankind from Satan but from man's own sin. Not sure if the allegory works well here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hushdawg View Post
    1. Gandalf takes the main character (and thereby the reader) and sets him on a path toward his destiny.
    2. Leads a group of people to safety through the darkness.
    3. Sacrifices himself to save the lives of others.
    4. Is resurrected.
    5. Leads armies on to success in battle and final destruction of the Evil One which leads to peace, prosperity and a new age of life.
    1. This is every wise stranger in fiction. In Erfworld, this is called *Plot.* And I don't really see a correlation to Jesus.
    2. Too vague to be evidence for a correlation to Jesus.
    3. Jesus didn't die to save anyone's life. If you're Christian, you may believe he died to save your soul, but that's it.
    4. Can't argue this one.
    5. Jesus never lead armies, despite the wishes of some of the zealots. He certainly never destroyed an Evil One to bring about peace and prosperity.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscipleofBob View Post
    This'll be my last post on the topic, but Gandalf was very much so MEANT to be a Jesus metaphor. A little known-fact is that the authors LotR and Narnia knew each other quite well, and had a running bet going to see who could make the least obvious Christian allegory.
    Lewis never tried to hide the fact that he was writing Christian allegory. Narnia and the space trilogy were both blatant Christian propoganda. I don't think Tolkien was doing quite the same thing, as The Hobbit was originally a story he wrote for his children which Lewis had to convince him to publish and he only wrote LOTR after The Hobbit sold well enough for his publishers to ask for a sequel. I would be interested in learning about this bet - do you have a source for this statement?

    My opinion: Tolkien definitely had Christian references in his books. He has said that religion, mythology, philology, industrialization, and the two Wars all influenced his writing. If you read the Silmarillion, you can't really miss that the Ainur are angels and Illuvitar is God. However, I don't think he was really writing allegory. I think the argument is really based on Gandalf's resurrection, and I don't think that it translates so well.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by gatitcz; 2007-08-08 at 01:09 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Artemician's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Is Gandalf an allegorical Jesus?

    Lord of the Rings may or may not be written as a Christian allegory. However, I do not read it as one, and that's the end of it.

    T'would be a strange world, if we went around reading books as what the author intended them to be.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    zeratul's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    behind you with a knife

    Default Re: Is Gandalf an allegorical Jesus?

    Little known fact, JRR Tolkein hated allegory, he did not mean any of his characters to represent any more than what they were. That was one of the problems he had with the work of his friendCS Lewis, who had allagory in Narnia.
    Last edited by zeratul; 2007-08-08 at 01:12 AM.
    Alexi Laiho Avatar by Mr._Saturn

    Sephiroth and Arthuai
    [CENTER]Sepiroth avatars by Ink
    Arthuai by Mr_Saturn
    Alexi Laiho by Mr_Saturn

    I have a metal blog thing now, check it out

    Quote Originally Posted by D'anna Biers View Post
    You can't kill the metal, metal will live on! \m/

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Pyrian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Is Gandalf an allegorical Jesus?

    Yeah, zeratul's understanding is mine as well.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Miniature Giant Space Hamster in the Playground Administrator
    Rawhide's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2005

    Default Re: Is Gandalf an allegorical Jesus?

    The Hairy Modfather: Discussions on real world religions is prohibited. This thread has been locked.

    "My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts