Player-proofing an ability.

[Avianmosquito]

As the title suggests, I need an ability player-proofed. There needs to not be any loopholes in it, at all, that any player is going to find. The ability is called That Which Can Eternal Lie, and its purpose is to ensure that a defeated creature with this ability only goes into hibernation and can never truly be killed. A party that defeats such a creature still gets experience and the threat subsides for a time, but not forever. This ability is used on four CR 30 creatures and a score of CR 5-15 creatures that are all technically part of those CR 30 creatures. These four are the closest thing to gods in this setting, so them surviving any campaign they appear in is rather important.

Spoiler: That Which Can Eternal Lie (Ex)

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A creature with this ability cannot be slain through any means. Instead, in situations where death would normally occur, the creature enters hibernation. While hibernating, the creature becomes extremely resilient to damage, and has its natural armour, spell resistance, damage reduction and energy resistance abilities doubled from X to Y*. While hibernating, its regeneration is reduced to Z* per day. They will exit hibernation only upon reaching full HP again.

No damage type inflicts lethal damage to the creature. The creature will still be rendered unconscious as normal by nonlethal damage, but will not be forced into hibernation until it has incurred nonlethal damage equal to twice its maximum hit points**. This creature is immune to ability drain, any drain inflicted instead becomes temporary damage, which recovers one point each day with or without rest. Death effects do not kill the creature, instead they inflict nonlethal damage equal to the creature's full HP, and the creature if disintegrated will be forced into hibernation with nonlethal damage inflicted equal to twice its maximum HP in addition to pre-existing damage. A coup de grace only deals nonlethal damage equal to the max HP of the creature, and the creature cannot be killed by massive damage. Even Wish and Miracle cannot kill the creature, and instead inflict nonlethal damage to them equal to their full HP if they are already hibernating, and only if they are already hibernating.

Even while hibernating, this creature is not immobile. Instead, it (insert specific movement rules here, generally this allows a single special movement method to allow it to escape the party, such as Nya-Za'Thoth teleporting back to her impact crater, or Sha'nit-Feek'it-La'kep falling upwards, and additionally a movement option to drift 5ft/round in any direction to avoid obstacles).

*For the CR 30s, this is from 20 to 40.

**This will keep the biggies, who have 30d8+30, 30d8+150 or 30d8+300 down for 17, 29 or 44 days.

If you can find ways to kill these things, tell me so I can change that.

[khadgar567]

little bit more info maybe all i can learn from this is this monster has some sort of swarm with him and instead of dying like regular mook enters some sort of hibernation sleep where its regeneration clocks up. So what type is this creature

[gooddragon1]

As the title suggests, I need an ability player-proofed. There needs to not be any loopholes in it, at all, that any player is going to find. The ability is called That Which Can Eternal Lie, and its purpose is to ensure that a defeated creature with this ability only goes into hibernation and can never truly be killed. A party that defeats such a creature still gets experience and the threat subsides for a time, but not forever. This ability is used on four CR 30 creatures and a score of CR 5-15 creatures that are all technically part of those CR 30 creatures. These four are the closest thing to gods in this setting, so them surviving any campaign they appear in is rather important.

Spoiler: That Which Can Eternal Lie (Ex)

Show

A creature with this ability cannot be slain through any means. Instead, in situations where death would normally occur, the creature enters hibernation. While hibernating, the creature becomes extremely resilient to damage, and has its natural armour, spell resistance, damage reduction and energy resistance abilities doubled from X to Y*. While hibernating, its regeneration is reduced to Z* per day. They will exit hibernation only upon reaching full HP again.

No damage type inflicts lethal damage to the creature. The creature will still be rendered unconscious as normal by nonlethal damage, but will not be forced into hibernation until it has incurred nonlethal damage equal to twice its maximum hit points**. This creature is immune to ability drain, any drain inflicted instead becomes temporary damage, which recovers one point each day with or without rest. Death effects do not kill the creature, instead they inflict nonlethal damage equal to the creature's full HP, and the creature if disintegrated will be forced into hibernation with nonlethal damage inflicted equal to twice its maximum HP in addition to pre-existing damage. A coup de grace only deals nonlethal damage equal to the max HP of the creature, and the creature cannot be killed by massive damage. Even Wish and Miracle cannot kill the creature, and instead inflict nonlethal damage to them equal to their full HP if they are already hibernating, and only if they are already hibernating.

Even while hibernating, this creature is not immobile. Instead, it (insert specific movement rules here, generally this allows a single special movement method to allow it to escape the party, such as Nya-Za'Thoth teleporting back to her impact crater, or Sha'mit-Feek'it-La'kep falling upwards, and additionally a movement option to drift 5ft/round in any direction to avoid obstacles).

*For the CR 30s, this is from 20 to 40. For the others it is 5 or 10 normally so it will be 10 or 20.

**This will keep the biggies, who have 30d8+30, 30d8+150 or 30d8+300 down for 17, 29 or 44 days.

If you can find ways to kill these things, tell me so I can change that.

If this creature would be rendered unable to take actions of it's own volition by some means other than by hibernation it is instead <impacted negatively in some manner as described>. If this creature would be affected by an effect that would cause it to lose this ability it is intead <impacted negatively in some manner as described>.

This catch all should prevent things like flesh to stone, baleful polymorph, and domination of any kind.

They can do a good number of things to it, but they can't ever permanently disable it without killing it (and killing it won't permanently disable it because it goes into hibernation).

Just as long as you don't allow them to diplomacy it you should be fine I think. I could be wrong.

EDIT: Removed redundancy.

[Avianmosquito]

little bit more info maybe all i can learn from this is this monster has some sort of swarm with him and instead of dying like regular mook enters some sort of hibernation sleep where its regeneration clocks up. So what type is this creature

I don't know where you got the idea that this was one creature with a swarm instead of four entirely separate entities and their projections. And actually, while in hibernation their regeneration is greatly slowed, but harming them further becomes extremely difficult.

The creatures' type is setting unique, referred to as "celestials", but this denotes a cosmic origin rather than a divine one. The four important ones are in the Great Old One subtype, which is exactly what it sounds like.

[khadgar567]

I don't know where you got the idea that this was one creature with a swarm instead of four entirely entities and their minions (though "projections" is more accurate). And actually, while in hibernation their regeneration is greatly slowed, but harming them further becomes extremely difficult.

The creatures' type is setting unique, referred to as "celestials", but this denotes a cosmic origin rather than a divine one. The four important ones are in the Great Old One subtype, which is exactly what it sounds like.

swarm may be the wrong term as i have not know chuttlu chan is their patron know that changes the scales. Are these 4 celestials acts as 4 horseman in your setting or you have other ideas and why not as they hibernate they relase unique psionic aura make others not notice them (with dc equal to 20 + celestial hit dice plus pcs will mod) or think them perrished

[Avianmosquito]

swarm may be the wrong term as i have not know chuttlu chan is their patron know that changes the scales. Are these 4 celestials acts as 4 horseman in your setting or you have other ideas and why not as they hibernate they relase unique psionic aura make others not notice them (with dc equal to 20 + celestial hit dice plus pcs will mod) or think them perrished

Can you try that one again? I can't make heads or tails of this.

[khadgar567]

Can you try that one again? I can't make heads or tails of this.

Okay swarm may not be the right word for this guys. Did you say these angels working for old gods in your previous post. then why not stole from warhammer and let them teleport to unique plane were players cant reach like their own mind space.

[Avianmosquito]

If this creature would be rendered unable to take actions of it's own volition by some means other than by hibernation it is instead <impacted negatively in some manner as described>. If this creature would be affected by an effect that would cause it to lose this ability it is intead <impacted negatively in some manner as described>.

This catch all should prevent things like flesh to stone, baleful polymorph, and domination of any kind.

Oh. I can just give them immunity to transmutation as a separate ability, though when was the last time you successfully transmuted a 30hd creature with mondo saves and spell resistance?

They can do a good number of things to it, but they can't ever permanently disable it without killing it (and killing it won't permanently disable it because it goes into hibernation).

I believe one loophole was permanent forcecage, which was why I gave them escape abilities, but otherwise I don't see anything more. Also incurable wounds need to not work.

Just as long as you don't allow them to diplomacy it you should be fine I think. I could be wrong.

EDIT: Removed redundancy.

I got a good laugh out of that one.

Okay swarm may not be the right word for this guys. Did you say these angels working for old gods in your previous post. then why not stole from warhammer and let them teleport to unique plane were players cant reach like their own mind space.

They aren't angels, there's no other planes and the great old ones aren't working for anybody.

[Jormengand]

Some of the attempted workarounds to Amkii the Ineffable's True Immortality might be things worth looking at here, to make sure you're those-things-proof. A lot of them rely on weird interpretations of homebrew that you probably weren't allowing anyway, but there are a few things that you might want to be clear on, IIRC.

[sengmeng]

Would the player's have a way to manipulate time to keep them in hibernation almost indefinitely? Or shunt them to another plane they can't escape (even if they have to create that plane)? Teleporting them into a star so they get constantly damaged beyond their regeneration/resistance? Otherwise, I think it's close to airtight.

Edit: Also, bathing it in poison constantly might keep it paralyzed as long as they keep replenishing it.

[Avianmosquito]

Would the player's have a way to manipulate time to keep them in hibernation almost indefinitely?

Pretty sure they can't manipulate time that well.

Or shunt them to another plane they can't escape (even if they have to create that plane)?

There's no other planes, so no.

Teleporting them into a star so they get constantly damaged beyond their regeneration/resistance?

That would actually work, but nobody has that kind of teleportation range.

Otherwise, I think it's close to airtight.

That's good to hear.

Edit: Also, bathing it in poison constantly might keep it paralyzed as long as they keep replenishing it.

Actually, their entire creature type is unaffected by disease and poison, as well as mind-affecting magic.

[FreddyNoNose]

Pretty sure they can't manipulate time that well.



There's no other planes, so no.



That would actually work, but nobody has that kind of teleportation range.



That's good to hear.



Actually, their entire creature type is unaffected by disease and poison, as well as mind-affecting magic.

Well, instead of having a body hibernating that they might be able to do something with. How about the body disappears and at some point in the future it reforms at some "random" location. Random perhaps is a bad choice, but it really means somewhere other than where it died and not predictable by any means.

[zlefin]

what keeps the players from simply teleporting next to them every 15 days or so to pile on enough non-lethal damage to keep the things stuck in hibernation forever?

also, player-proofing against what level of shenanigans/opness? (in particular stuff like epci spellcasting)

is there a limit to how much nonlethal damage can be dealt to them? i.e. could you put on enoug hdamage so it'd take years or millenia to regenerate it all?

[Avianmosquito]

what keeps the players from simply teleporting next to them every 15 days or so to pile on enough non-lethal damage to keep the things stuck in hibernation forever?

The creature's continued movement, into hostile territory that does not harm them. The arrival of the creature's many offspring to try and free them. The eventual intervention by other great old ones. Their own mortality. The infinite passage of time.

There is one successfully imprisoned, by the way, but it takes the ruins of a giant building, a support column through the heart, an epic level party of 8, dozens of high level adventurers and a literal legion of mid-level soldiers, the best fortifications in the world, a massive amount of artillery and constant funding from the entire continent and beyond to keep her there. It will also fail someday, and when K'Macthia escapes from the Tomb of the Mother, what chance do you think there really is that she can be trapped again?

also, player-proofing against what level of shenanigans/opness? (in particular stuff like epci spellcasting)

Given that the strongest are CR 30, they should at least be proofed against everything that level.

is there a limit to how much nonlethal damage can be dealt to them? i.e. could you put on enoug hdamage so it'd take years or millenia to regenerate it all?

There is no limit, so yes, you could do as such, but that is not dead which can eternal lie. What's a thousand years of sleep to a creature older than our entire species? Eventually it will return, and you won't be there to stop it.

[zlefin]

The creature's continued movement, into hostile territory that does not harm them. The arrival of the creature's many offspring to try and free them. The eventual intervention by other great old ones. Their own mortality. The infinite passage of time.

There is one successfully imprisoned, by the way, but it takes the ruins of a giant building, a support column through the heart, an epic level party of 8, dozens of high level adventurers and a literal legion of mid-level soldiers, the best fortifications in the world, a massive amount of artillery and constant funding from the entire continent and beyond to keep her there. It will also fail someday, and when K'Macthia escapes from the Tomb of the Mother, what chance do you think there really is that she can be trapped again?



Given that the strongest are CR 30, they should at least be proofed against everything that level.



There is no limit, so yes, you could do as such, but that is not dead which can eternal lie. What's a thousand years of sleep to a creature older than our entire species? Eventually it will return, and you won't be there to stop it.

what kind of hostile territory?
if the party is ECL 30, territory hostile enough to threaten them might be rather difficult to make, if not impossible (if the party is high op).

it sounds like the successfully imprisoned one should take less to keep imprisoned, though I guess it depends a lot on to what extent others would come to help free them. i'd need to see their stats more fully to see what it would take to do the job (and to see how optimized the epic level people guarding it are, higher optimization at epic levels gets very stupid powerful very quickly)

do it's offspring eventually die off? or what if they all also get stuck into a hibernation mode? eventually you could have them all captured.

proofing something against epic magic might prove difficult, given how stupidly powerful epic magic can be. especially if you allow epic spellcasting, cuz those are just crazy if you let people make their own.

an epically powerful creature with no limit to its lifespan should be able to do the show up and beat on the monster to keep its nonlethal damage so high it'll never escape hibernation.

from the adventurers standpoint, keeping something immobilized for say a billion years may be all they care about; let others worry about keeping up the number after then.

I asked about opness because at higher optimization levels, a lvl 30 party can do some utterly crazy things. and it'd be very very hard to make something immune to tippyverse level shenanigans.

[sengmeng]

Actually, their entire creature type is unaffected by disease and poison, as well as mind-affecting magic.

What kind of ability damage were they taking then? Spells like shivering touch? Keep in mind that if any ability score is constantly kept at zero, that's paralysis.

[Avianmosquito]

what kind of hostile territory?
if the party is ECL 30, territory hostile enough to threaten them might be rather difficult to make, if not impossible (if the party is high op).

K'Macthia retreats underground until she finds bedrock (that's why she had to be trapped inside a stone building). Sha'nit-Feek'it-La'kep falls upwards into outer space (where she will remain until she wakes up and gently floats down). It Yeek'Kal Thet sinks to the crushing depths of the ocean (where no other living thing can withstand the pressure). Nya-Za'Thoth teleports back to her impact crater, now an active caldera (and while lava doesn't hurt her...).

it sounds like the successfully imprisoned one should take less to keep imprisoned, though I guess it depends a lot on to what extent others would come to help free them.

You'd be surprised the kind of assaults they face. I mean, every once in a while one of the other great old ones will show up to try and free her, and sometimes bring a few of their kids with them. Like, say, It Yeek'Kal Thet (great old one, CR 30) rising out of the ocean with a couple of Othersea Leviathans (great ones, CR 20, children of It Yeek'Kal Thet and K'Macthia), it can get pretty nasty. I mean, do the math on that encounter level, already we've got a CR 30 and two CR 20s, and that's not mentioning that It Yeek'Kal Thet, K'Macthia and their great one children can all bring a sizable army of mortal hybrids (ECL +2) and celestials in the minor class (CR 5), lesser class (CR 10) and greater class (CR 15), and ordinary mortals who happen to follow them. They can also continue fighting with projections while hibernating, so even K'Macthia herself can join the fight (despite her voices being unable to physically harm anyone). This place is getting hit with literal armies of monsters every couple years because as it turns out, the great old ones all kinda hate that one of them is imprisoned by mortals. (Though they don't seem to see the hypocrisy, having imprisoned Nya-Za'Thoth themselves.)

i'd need to see their stats more fully to see what it would take to do the job (and to see how optimized the epic level people guarding it are, higher optimization at epic levels gets very stupid powerful very quickly)

Whose stats? K'Macthia? The epic party? The soldiers, elite response teams, various monsters? I mean, I can do that.

do it's offspring eventually die off?

Depends. Their children from mortal women age and die like any other mortals. Their children with eachother, however, can only die violently.

or what if they all also get stuck into a hibernation mode? eventually you could have them all captured.

There's a few issues with trying this. The big one being that they can afford to wait longer than you, but also that their children will come for you in droves like they do to free K'Macthia.

There's also a rather serious risk of making things worse. For example, K'Macthia was imprisoned because she was transforming the landscape around her and the creatures within it. She wasn't malicious, but people tend not to be happy when ordinary countryside is being converted into an alien landscape. That's why she was betrayed by her own followers and trapped with a building through her chest, but this did not stop her from altering the landscape around her. Instead, the mutations were twisted by K'Macthia's pain and anger, and turned the still spreading Otherlands from "strange and otherworldly" to "hostile and horrifying".

Or for another example, Nya-Za'thoth was imprisoned by her own kind. The only reason she stays where she is in The White Unknown is because every time she tries to leave It Yeek'Kal Thet and Sha'nit-Feek'it-La'kep come and force her back to her crater. What do you think will happen if you defeat the other two, and go from dealing with great old ones with intelligence scores of 4 to a great old one with an intelligence score of 20, a genuinely vicious temperament, an obsession with power and by far the most powerful army of the four of them, already distributed around the world? How long do you think it'll take for her to realize she's free to leave? Now you're stuck fighting a vicious alien god with an army that grows with every battle while reality gets drunk on the job. Worse, forcing her into hibernation won't stop her from growing her army of voices and casting memories on the surroundings, she'll be more powerful dreaming in inhabited lands than she ever was awake in empty ones.

proofing something against epic magic might prove difficult, given how stupidly powerful epic magic can be. especially if you allow epic spellcasting, cuz those are just crazy if you let people make their own.

I don't use standard epic rules. I use an epic replacer, however, that allows the accumulation of higher spell slots, BAB, additional attacks, saving throws and so forth. So a 30th level fighter, for example, can attack at +30/25/20/15/10/5 and dish out a LOT of damage in a single round, and a 25th level sorceress has 13th level spell slots and can cast, say, quickened meteor swarm.

an epically powerful creature with no limit to its lifespan should be able to do the show up and beat on the monster to keep its nonlethal damage so high it'll never escape hibernation.

I'm not totally sure about that, for a couple reasons. Mostly that there's not exactly an abundance of creatures that can pose a significant threat to these things. I mean, there aren't tarrasques in this setting but a tarrasque would be permanently killed in a couple rounds fighting one of these things. (That's probably WHY there aren't tarrasques in this setting, come to think of it.)

from the adventurers standpoint, keeping something immobilized for say a billion years may be all they care about; let others worry about keeping up the number after then.

A billion years is going to be beyond anybody's means, hundreds or thousands is largely where the limit is going to fall, and that's close enough to the present that the fear of their day of emergence is going to be quite pronounced. Even where K'Macthia is, it seems likely there will still be civilization when she escapes and that civilization is in for it.

I asked about opness because at higher optimization levels, a lvl 30 party can do some utterly crazy things. and it'd be very very hard to make something immune to tippyverse level shenanigans.

Oh, I'm aware. That's why I use an epic replacer instead of standard epic rules.

What kind of ability damage were they taking then? Spells like shivering touch?

Spells, yes.

Keep in mind that if any ability score is constantly kept at zero, that's paralysis.

I am keenly aware, but you'd have to penetrate a lot of spell resistance, and all of them have abilities that can reverse this, such as Nya-Za'Thoth and It Yeek'Kal Thet being able to cast Miracle multiple times each day.

[Kish]

I think the basic premise here is in error. The best response to rules-lawyer players is to tell them to stop rules-lawyering, not to exceed their system mastery. My advice is to just say "they're unkillable."

[Douglas]

K'Macthia retreats underground until she finds bedrock (that's why she had to be trapped inside a stone building). Sha'nit-Feek'it-La'kep falls upwards into outer space (where she will remain until she wakes up and gently floats down). It Yeek'Kal Thet sinks to the crushing depths of the ocean (where no other living thing can withstand the pressure). Nya-Za'Thoth teleports back to her impact crater, now an active caldera (and while lava doesn't hurt her...).

There are spells and/or magic items that trivialize the hostility of each of those terrains. Just from memory, in order, Xorn Movement from Spell Compendium for going through rock almost like it isn't there, Necklace of Adaptation from DMG (and if necessary Energy Immunity (Cold) from Spell Compendium) for supplying air in vacuum and not getting frozen, Transformation of the Deeps from Stormwrack for ignoring deep water pressure damage, and Energy Immunity (Fire) from Spell Compendium for not getting hurt by lava. There are probably plenty of other ways too.

Of the mechanics you've mentioned so far, the only one that seems a serious obstacle to me for a high-ish practical optimization epic level party trying to seal these things away indefinitely is the "continue fighting with projections while hibernating" bit, and even that depends on the details.

To really judge how well your mechanics support the scenario you've described, I think I'd have to see full stats, including all special abilities, for each of the four Great Old Ones, all the other creatures with this can't-be-killed ability, and at least the upper range of their supporting (but killable) monsters, along with the epic party and any especially notable features of the fortress that's keeping K'Macthia imprisoned. And whether we should assume the player characters have an optimization level similar to this epic NPC party.

[Avianmosquito]

There are spells and/or magic items that trivialize the hostility of each of those terrains. Just from memory, in order, Xorn Movement from Spell Compendium for going through rock almost like it isn't there, Necklace of Adaptation from DMG (and if necessary Energy Immunity (Cold) from Spell Compendium) for supplying air in vacuum and not getting frozen, Transformation of the Deeps from Stormwrack for ignoring deep water pressure damage, and Energy Immunity (Fire) from Spell Compendium for not getting hurt by lava. There are probably plenty of other ways too.

That's only one layer of defence that I've mentioned. Take Sha'nit-Feek... That's getting irritating to type. Shep. Take Shep as one example. They lose a fight, they fall up and will keep falling up until they recover. So you can survive in space, that's not the problem. HOW are you getting up there, exactly?

Of the mechanics you've mentioned so far, the only one that seems a serious obstacle to me for a high-ish practical optimization epic level party trying to seal these things away indefinitely is the "continue fighting with projections while hibernating" bit, and even that depends on the details.

The rules on that vary for each of them. The Voices of K'Macthia, for instance, are twenty identical CR 10 manifestations of K'Macthia's "voice", and while they are limited so the farther away from K'Macthia you get the fewer of them can reach you (their maximum distance from K'Macthia is a total between all twenty of 600 miles), if you're right in its face you've got ten CR 10 creatures fighting you that are all as unkillable as K'Macthia herself. For comparison, Nya-Za'Thoth lacks the voice of K'Macthia (this is charisma based) and can only generate two of these creatures with a combined range limit of 600 miles. However, K'Macthia's voice is gentle and cannot inflict physical harm, all of these creatures' abilities are mind-affecting and rely on manipulating attackers mentally and emotionally instead of stopping them. Nya-Za'Thoth's voice, however, is vicious and can both physically attack opponents and cast divine magic as if each of her two projections was a 10th level cleric. I think you see the issue there. Nya-Za'Thoth's voice will actually heal her if she's defeated, 100hp at a time.

To really judge how well your mechanics support the scenario you've described, I think I'd have to see full stats, including all special abilities, for each of the four Great Old Ones, all the other creatures with this can't-be-killed ability, and at least the upper range of their supporting (but killable) monsters, along with the epic party and any especially notable features of the fortress that's keeping K'Macthia imprisoned. And whether we should assume the player characters have an optimization level similar to this epic NPC party.

That could take a while. I've got a whopping two of those sheets written in full right now. Still, I'll do it. I hope you don't mind getting them in chunks.

Also, all the other unkillable creatures and the great old ones' voices.

[Douglas]

That's only one layer of defence that I've mentioned. Take Sha'nit-Feek... That's getting irritating to type. Shep. Take Shep as one example. They lose a fight, they fall up and will keep falling up until they recover. So you can survive in space, that's not the problem. HOW are you getting up there, exactly?

Greater Teleport, maybe?

An idea just occurred to me, would Reverse Gravity affect the direction of Shep's fall? And on the more mundane end, how strong a tether would it take to tie Shep down to hold back the upward fall?

That could take a while. I've got a whopping two of those sheets written in full right now. Still, I'll do it. I hope you don't mind getting them in chunks.

Also, all the other unkillable creatures and the great old ones' voices.

The great old ones themselves and the epic party are probably by far the most important parts.

[Avianmosquito]

Greater Teleport, maybe?

Would not knowing the first thing about the cosmos count as "misleading information"?

An idea just occurred to me, would Reverse Gravity affect the direction of Shep's fall?

No, that's already how Shep is falling up.

And on the more mundane end, how strong a tether would it take to tie Shep down to hold back the upward fall?

Enough to stop 150 tons falling its full length.

The great old ones themselves and the epic party are probably by far the most important parts.

All right. Give me a couple hours (at least), I need to write up the actual sheets for three of the great old ones and all eight epic characters. I think I'll just start with one great old one and two of the epic characters at a time.

[Douglas]

No, that's already how Shep is falling up.

Double-reversed Gravity?

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see players argue that Shep's personal reversed gravity plus the spell should combine to cancel each other out. I think the rules on combining magical effects are unclear on the subject.

[Avianmosquito]

Double-reversed Gravity?

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see players argue that Shep's personal reversed gravity plus the spell should combine to cancel each other out. I think the rules on combining magical effects are unclear on the subject.

Well, it's worth noting that Shep already ignores gravity under regular circumstances. She's the size of a whale, and not a small one either, and she just kinda floats there like she doesn't know that's not supposed to happen. (Then again, with an intelligence of 4, maybe she doesn't know that's not supposed to happen.) It's the lamest reality-bending ability of the four of them, but it's hers. The hobbos that worship her certainly think it makes her impressive.

[zlefin]

I have to agree that the best way to make them immortal is not using system rules, but to simpyl declare that they'll always be around, and that anything that woudl get around that will be dm fiat dealt with. trying to out system mastery is very hard.

as to all the other stuff in the last response to me, I don't know how to break up quotes well, so I'll just make a few points: if you have a cr 30 opponent, adding some cr 20 stuff, or cr 10 stuf, simply won't affect the cr at all. and none of the stuff you mentioned shouldn't inconvenience a lvl 30 party unless it's low op.
I'd ask how many games you've run before that went into epic levels, and what optimization level they used, if it's low, then there won't be a problem; but at the medium optimization level found on the board here (setting aside the crazier and high op stuff), crushing opponents like this might be too easy, but we'll see hwen you put up the stats. iirc awhile ago there was a contest to build a monk 20 that could solo the elder evils from the handbook (of course those guys were kinda weakly designed, but still high cr monsters)

[gooddragon1]

I have to agree that the best way to make them immortal is not using system rules, but to simpyl declare that they'll always be around, and that anything that woudl get around that will be dm fiat dealt with. trying to out system mastery is very hard.

as to all the other stuff in the last response to me, I don't know how to break up quotes well, so I'll just make a few points: if you have a cr 30 opponent, adding some cr 20 stuff, or cr 10 stuf, simply won't affect the cr at all. and none of the stuff you mentioned shouldn't inconvenience a lvl 30 party unless it's low op.
I'd ask how many games you've run before that went into epic levels, and what optimization level they used, if it's low, then there won't be a problem; but at the medium optimization level found on the board here (setting aside the crazier and high op stuff), crushing opponents like this might be too easy, but we'll see hwen you put up the stats. iirc awhile ago there was a contest to build a monk 20 that could solo the elder evils from the handbook (of course those guys were kinda weakly designed, but still high cr monsters)

Beginning to agree with this. Just say that the universe itself keeps bringing them back. DM rule 0 is impossible to overcome with rules lawyering.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone have the stats of the dabaus or the lady of pain? :D

[thereaper]

Have you considered making it ever-evolving, Doomsday-style? That way, if they do find a work-around, it will only work for so long, which seems to be the idea here.

[Avianmosquito]

Here you go, Douglass. 1/4 of it.

Spoiler: It Yeek'Kal Thet

Show

It Yeek'Kal Thet is a great old one that dwells in the oceans of the southern seas. She could initially be mistaken for a colossal-sized squid by her sihlouette, as she has a long bulbous body with a disproportionately massive head fin running half the length of her body and twelve long tentacles, but no beak and none of a squid's shorter arms. This illusion shatters quickly upon inspection. She has two humanoid arms hiding under her body, and her head fin conceals an eerily human face with a giant toothless mouth that opens and unhinges large enough to fit something larger than herself. Her arms end in disproportionately small, four-fingered hands with long, sharp nails and her eyes are gigantic even for the size of her head and never blink. Her squid eyes, further back, seem to be fake as they never look at anything, and upon inspection her head fin is actually attached to what appears to be half of a mammalian arm as the back and the remnants of a horn at the front. The tentacles lining her body lack suckers, and review shows them to have bones, revealing them as actually being prehensile tails. In fact, she has an entire skeleton, and while she has a heart and circulatory system she lacks any means of breathing, neither nostrils nor gills, and internally she doesn't even have lungs, just a heart and a digestive tract. She is a hermaphrodite, but her female genitalia are located outside her body where you'd expect a beak to be if you still thought she was a squid, and her male genitalia are inside her digestive tract for some reason we'll never know. One wonders how her kind, if she even has a kind since she's the only one on this world, manages to mate.

Now, of note is that It Yeek'Kal Thet can raise the dead. This actually leads to an interesting point: It Yeek'Kal Thet is not always hostile. In fact, It Yeek'Kal Thet is worshipped by some aquatic races as a goddess, most prominently the sahuagin. They give her females to impregnate (she's a hermaphrodite), she leaves them alone. They let the hybrid babies swim off to reunite with her, she doesn't go on a rampage to get them back. When she's in a particular sahuagin temple she'll even raise the dead if she gets one female to impregnate for each dead person she has to raise. (And if the dead person is a fertile female, they'll do as the payment.) Pretty straightforward tribal god stuff, and since she's too stupid to come up with a better scheme she does everything at a 1-1 ratio. That is, she wants one girl per village per year for "protection" and one girl per dead person she resurrects, and frankly she could get ten times that much if she wasn't an idiot.

This also means a party visiting the region can also raise the dead by visiting her. Since resurrection normally doesn't exist in Aelsif, that's a big deal. And all they need is a female for It Yeek'Kal Thet to impregnate. Preferably not a party member, be creative. (Hint: People will do just about anything for enough money.)

Size/Type: Colossal Celestial* (Great Old One)
Hit dice: 30d8+150 (285hp)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 10ft/round, 60ft/round swim
Armor class: 43 (Base 10, -8 size, +1 dex, +40 natural), touch 3, flat-footed 22
Damage reduction: 40/--
Energy resistance: 40 (All), immune to cold
Spell resistance: 55 (0 level, +15 Fth**, +40 extraordinary)
Base attack/Grapple: +30/+45
Attack: Tongue +37 melee (2d8+15 bludgeon)
Full attack: Tongue +37 melee (2d8+15 bludgeon) and 12 Tentacles +37 melee (2d8+15 bludgeon) and 2 claws +37 melee (2d12+15 slash)
Space/reach: 60ft/30ft (60ft tentacles, 120ft tongue)
Special attacks: Messenger of fear, faithshatter, jet, improved grab, constrict, swallow whole, raise dead, miracle, aura of forbiddance, mass heal, celestial freedom, storm of vengeance, sacred blood, voice of the cosmos, reality warp, spells
Special qualities: Terraphobic, that which can eternal lie, regeneration 20, deep retreat, sail of the cosmos, voices, comprehend languages, tongues
Saves: For +24, Ref +20, Will +34
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 4, Cha 20, Fth 40
Skills: Swim +33 (Did I mention she's an idiot? This is optimization as done by an idiot.)
Feats: Great fortitude, lightning reflexes, iron will, power attack, cleave, great cleave, awesome blow, combat reflexes, improved initiative, dodge, athletic
Environment: Ocean
Organization: Unique, +10d6 sahuagin deep hybrids (1hd infants) or +100d6 sahuagin deep hybrids (5hd young adults)*
Challenge rating: 30
Treasure: None
Advancement: N/A
Level adjustment: --

Messenger of fear (Ex****):
The mere sight or sound of a great old one instills an existential fear in the viewer. The deep trauma inflicted causes the target to become frightened for the next 24 hours, after which this effect is downgraded to shaken. This deep psychological effect impacts all non-celestial creatures with 30hd or less, is permanent and cannot be magically cured. The fear can be negated for a single day with a DC 25 faith check or cured permanently with a DC 25 intelligence check, which a natural 20 does not automatically succeed, and only one attempt is allowed per day. You cannot make either check during the first 48 hours. A creature can only be subjected to this effect one time from an individual great old one. A will save with a DC of 40 reduces the frightened condition to shaken and allows the ability checks to be made in 24 hours instead of 48. The save DC is faith based.

Faithshatter (Ex):
Any creature under the effect of Messenger of Fear has its faith permanently impaired, taking a point of faith drain for each round they witness It Yeek'Kal Thet. While being subjected to this effect, all divine casters have a 50% failure chance when casting divine spells. A will save with a DC of 40 negates this effect for one round.

Jet (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet can jet backward once per round as a full-round action, at a speed of 360 feet, as long as she is within water. She must move in a straight line, but does not provoke attacks of opportunity while jetting.

Improved grab (Ex):
If It Yeek'Kal Thet hits with any natural weapon, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Improved grab works only against opponents huge size or smaller. She has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If she chooses to do the latter, she takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled herself.

Constrict (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet can deal 2d8+15 bludgeon damage to any opponent she is grappling.

Swallow whole (Ex):
If It Yeek'Kal Thet begins its turn with an opponent held by her tongue, she can attempt a new grapple check (as though attempting to pin her opponent). If it succeeds, she swallows her prey, dealing no damage. It Yeek'Kal Thet can swallow any creature, but gargantuan creatures require two consecutive successful attempts to swallow and other colossal creatures require three. Targets in It Yeek'Kal Thet's stomach may take a point of constitution drain each round at It Yeek'Kal Thet's discretion, and may also be released at her discretion. Draining constitution from prey feeds her, but has no other benefits. A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while she is not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free by inflicting 30 damage to her digestive tract (AC 3, DR 20). If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, they escape It Yeek'Kal Thet's mouth and are subject to an attack of opportunity from her tongue.

Sail of the Cosmos (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet can glide through invisible means. She takes no falling damage, can move 5 feet for every 1 foot she falls, at a speed of 60ft per round. She also gains a +30 bonus to jump checks while in water.

Raise dead (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet may raise the recently dead, as if using the raise dead spell, while they are in her stomach. This causes It Yeek'Kal Thet to become fatigued, but has no other cost for her or the target.

Miracle (Ex):
Twice daily, It Yeek'Kal Thet may perform a miracle, as the spell. This has no experience cost, regardless of how it is used.

Aura of Forbiddance (Ex):
The area within 60ft of It Yeek'Kal Thet is treated as if under the effects of the spell Forbiddance, barring dimensional travel and dealing 6d6 damage to any creature that enters this area which It Yeek'Kal Thet has not chosen to allow. A will save with a DC of 40 will reduce damage to 1/2.

Mass Heal (Ex):
Once per minute as a standard action, It Yeek'Kal Thet can exude positive energy as if casting the spell Mass Heal with a caster level of 30.

Celestial Freedom (Ex):
At will as a standard action, It Yeek'Kal Thet can destroy any and all magical imprisonment as if casting the spell Freedom. She can use this ability even when unconscious.

Storm of vengeance (Ex):
At will as a concentration action, It Yeek'Kal Thet can create a violent storm, as if casting the spell Storm of Vengeance with a caster level of 30.

Sacred blood (Ex):
Any creature that damages It Yeek'Kal Thet with a melee attack is subject to a special ranged touch attack from a jet of blood with an attack bonus of +23 and a range increment of 5 feet. This blood induces an intense fervor in the target, draining their intelligence and charisma by 1, increasing their faith by 1 for 24 hours and healing them for 1d3 (as positive or negative energy). This effect will not damage the intelligence or raise the faith of an opponent whose intelligence is at 1, and will not damage the charisma or heal an opponent whose charisma is at 1. If an opponent's intelligence or charisma is 1 and they are subjected to this effect they will be driven mad, causing confusion until their intelligence and charisma are restored above 1. A fortitude save with a DC of 40 will negate the intelligence and charisma damage, but also prevent the faith bonus and healing, and a will save with a DC of 30 will prevent the insanity. This insanity is only curable using restoration, heal, limited wish, miracle or wish. The save DC is faith based.

Voice of the Cosmos (Ex):
As a free action, It Yeek'Kal Thet can channel her psychic voice to a practical end, and choose between the following passive effects each round. This ability still functions while she is unconscious, but not while hibernating.

Luring Hum, which compels targets that cannot see her to move in her direction, as if under the effects of suggestion. This effect can be negated with a will save, DC 30. The save DC is charisma based.

Wail of the Outer Seas, which gives opponents a -2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, saving throws, ability checks and skill checks. This effect can be negated with a will save, DC 30. The save DC is charisma based.

Call of the Deep, which calls out for help. This effect only works while in the ocean. Using this effect for one round will bring a single creature from the lesser aquatic celestial table. Using this effect for one minute will bring a single creature will bring a single creature from the greater aquatic celestial table. The creature will arrive in 1d6 minutes.

Celestial Shout, which emits a massive burst of noise that stuns all creatures within 60ft for 1 round, deafens them for 4d6 and inflicts 10d6 sonic damage. A successful fortitude save with a DC of 30 will negate the stun as well as halve the damage and duration of the deafness. A creature that cannot hear the sound is not stunned or deafened but is still damaged. This sound cannot penetrate a silence spell. The save DC is charisma based.

Reality warp (Ex):
As a full round action, It Yeek'Kal Thet can secure control over a space in the shape of a cube 1000ft across for one minute. When this effect ends, It Yeek'Kal Thet becomes exhausted. This ability continues to function for its full duration even if It Yeek'Kal Thet loses consciousness or is forced into hibernation, but once it expires she cannot activate it again until she regains consciousness. This cube can be located wherever It Yeek'Kal Thet likes, as long as she is within it. The space loops on opposite sides, meaning exiting from the top causes one to enter from the bottom, leaving north causes one to enter south, etcetera. Any attempt to teleport out of the space automatically fails, but otherwise teleportation is allowed within the space. Once the space has been secured, It Yeek'Kal Thet may choose any one of the following effects once per round, as a free action, even if It Yeek'Kal Thet is unconscious or hibernating.

Slow Time, allowing It Yeek'Kal Thet to perform two rounds worth of actions in a single round.

Teleport, allowing It Yeek'Kal Thet to teleport any single creature other than herself to any other position in the space. This can be negated with a will save, DC 22. The save DC is intelligence based.

Death, killing a single target instantly if they cannot succeed a fortitude save with a DC of 22. The save DC is intelligence based.

Freeze, dealing 7d6 cold damage to all targets inside with no save. This does not affect targets the user doesn't want it to.

Confusion, confusing all characters inside the space for a single round if they cannot succeed a will save with a DC of 22. The save DC is intelligence based.

Stun, stunning all creatures inside the space for a single round if they cannot succeed a reflex save with a DC of 22. The save DC is intelligence based.

Sensory deprivation, blinding and deafening all creatures inside the space for a single round if they cannot succeed a reflex save with a DC of 22. The save DC is intelligence based.

Spells (Sp):
It Yeek'Kal Thet's powers can also imitate the spellcasting abilities of a mortal creature, allowing her to cast spells like a 30th level ranger.

Terraphobic (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet is afraid of being on land. After being on land for 1 round per point of intelligence, she becomes shaken. After being on land for 1 minute per point of intelligence, she becomes frightened and attempts to return to the water. After being on land for 1 hour per point of intelligence, she panics and will flee for water blindly and at all costs. If she is on land to retrieve one of her offspring, she uses her faith score instead.

That Which Can Eternal Lie (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet cannot be slain through any means. Instead, in situations where death would normally occur, she enters hibernation. While hibernating, she becomes extremely resilient to damage, and has her natural armour, spell resistance, damage reduction and energy resistance bonuses doubled from 40 to 80. While hibernating, her regeneration is reduced to 20 per day. She will exit hibernation only upon reaching full HP again.

No damage type inflicts lethal damage to her. She will still be rendered unconscious as normal by nonlethal damage, but will not be forced into hibernation until she has incurred nonlethal damage equal to twice her maximum hit points. She is immune to level drain, ability drain and ability damage. Death effects do not kill her, instead they inflict nonlethal damage equal to her full HP, and if disintegrated she will be forced into hibernation with nonlethal damage inflicted equal to twice her maximum HP in addition to pre-existing damage. A coup de grace only deals nonlethal damage equal to her max HP, and she cannot be killed by massive damage. Even Wish and Miracle cannot kill her, and instead inflict nonlethal damage equal to her full HP if she is already hibernating, and only if she is already hibernating. Attempts to trap It Yeek'Kal Thet's soul automatically fail, destroying the object attempting to trap her and, if it is triggered directly by a caster, trapping the caster instead.

Even while hibernating, she is not immobile. Instead, she crawls at 5ft/round towards water, usually choosing to remain still when observed, and once in water sinks to the bottom at 60ft/round.

Regeneration (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet regenerates 30 hit points per round when not hibernating.

Deep Retreat (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet takes no damage from deep water, darkvision up to 300ft and gets a +20 on listen checks in water.

Voices (Ex):
When hibernating, It Yeek'Kal Thet's psychic voice is projected from her body, manifesting as an incorporeal entity taking on a far smaller version of her likeness. Unable to maintain coherence, her voice fragments into 5 identical entities. The combined distance of these creatures from It Yeek'Kal Thet cannot exceed 120 miles, any attempt to go farther will result in all five of them being teleported back to It Yeek'Kal Thet. Upon It Yeek'Kal Thet's awakening, these voices vanish. See Voice of It Yeek'Kal Thet for more information.

Comprehend languages (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet has a telepathic insight that allows her to understand all languages.

Tongues (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet's telepathic speech can be understood by all, regardless of languages.

+20 Racial bonus to swim

*Note that the celestial creature type is intentionally overpowered as all hell. It's immune to poison, disease, mind-affecting magic, has only good saves and gets full BAB with 4 skill points per hit die. (Though that skill bonus is a complete waste on an idiot like It Yeek'Kal Thet.)

**Faith is Aelsif's equivalent to wisdom.

***These are the children she's made by impregnating sahuagin. They're basically sahuagin with some of It Yeek'Kal Thet's abilities. The 10d6 babies is her normal company, the 100d6 adults is for when she's going to war.

****ALL the special abilities of celestials are considered extraordinary effects, no matter what they are. This is to ensure they are immune to magic-denying effects, such as spell resistance and anti-magic field, as whatever the celestials use is not magic of any form we understand and these effects cannot function against their powers.

Also, here's a few related creatures. I needn't bother with a description for these. They look like her, but made of psychic sound.

Spoiler: Voice of It Yeek'Kal Thet

Show

Size/Type: Medium Celestial (Voice)
Hit dice: 10d8 (45hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 10ft/round, 60ft/round swim
Armor class: 18 (Base 10, -2 dex, +10 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 8
Damage reduction: 10/--
Energy resistance: 10 (All)
Spell resistance: 15 (0 level, +5 Fth, +10 extraordinary)
Base attack/Grapple: +10/+12
Attack: Tongue +12 melee (1d6+2 sonic)
Full attack: Tongue +12 melee (1d6+2 sonic) and 12 Tentacles +12 melee (1d6+2 sonic) and 2 claws +12 melee (1d10+2 sonic)
Space/reach: 5ft/5ft (10ft tentacles, 20ft tongue)
Special attacks: Messenger of worry, faithshaker, jet, improved grab, constrict, swallow whole, sail of the cosmos, cure light wounds, celestial freedom, voice of the cosmos, reality warp, spells
Special qualities: Disembodied voice, terraphobic, that which can eternal lie, regeneration 5, deep retreat
Saves: For +9, Ref +5, Will +12
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 6, Con 10, Int 2, Cha 10, Fth 20
Skills: Swim +13
Feats: Great fortitude, iron will, combat reflexes, athletic
Environment: Ocean
Organization: 1d6-1
Challenge rating: 10
Treasure: None
Advancement: N/A
Level adjustment: --

Messenger of worry (Ex):
The sound of It Yeek'Kal Thet's disembodied voice instills fear in the listener. The deep trauma inflicted causes the target to become shaken for the next 24 hours. This psychological effect impacts all non-celestial creatures with 10hd or less. A creature can only be subjected to this effect one time from the voices of It Yeek'Kal Thet, though this does not grant immunity to the voices of other great old ones. A will save with a DC of 20 negates the effect and prevents it from ever being applied. The save DC is faith based.

Faithshaker (Ex):
Any creature under the effect of Messenger of Worry has its faith damaged, taking a point of faith damage for each round they hear It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice. While being subjected to this effect, all divine casters have a 25% failure chance when casting divine spells. A will save with a DC of 20 negates this effect for one round.

Jet (Ex):
The voice of It Yeek'Kal Thet can jet backward once per round as a full-round action, at a speed of 360 feet, as long as it is in water. It must move in a straight line, but does not provoke attacks of opportunity while jetting.

Improved grab (Ex):
If It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice hits with any natural weapon weapon, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Improved grab works only against opponents tiny size or smaller. It has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, she takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself.

Constrict (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet can deal 1d6+2 sonic damage to any opponent it is grappling.

Swallow whole (Ex):
If It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice begins its turn with an opponent held by its tongue, it can attempt a new grapple check (as though attempting to pin her opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, dealing no damage. It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice can swallow any creature medium size or smaller, but small creatures require two consecutive successful attempts to swallow and other medium creatures require three. Targets in it's stomach are not harmed, as despite the voice attempting to eat it's made of psychic sound and it has no digestive tract. A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while it is not. A swallowed creature cannot cut its way out, and has to escape the grapple. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, they escape the voice's mouth and are subject to an attack of opportunity from its tongue.

Sail of the Cosmos (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice can glide through invisible means. It takes no falling damage, can move 5 feet for every 1 foot it falls, at a speed of 60ft per round. It also gains a +10 bonus to jump checks while in water.

Cure Light Wounds(Ex):
Once per minute as a standard action, It Yeek'Kal Thet's Voice can exude positive energy as if casting the spell Cure Light Wounds with a caster level of 10.

Celestial Freedom (Ex):
Once daily as a standard action, It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice can destroy any and all magical imprisonment as if casting the spell Freedom. It can use this ability even when unconscious.

Voice of the Cosmos (Ex):
As a free action, It Yeek'Kal Thet's vpoce can channel itself to a practical end, and choose between the following passive effects each round. This ability still functions while it is unconscious, but not while hibernating.

Luring Hum, which compels targets that cannot see her to move in her direction, as if under the effects of suggestion. This effect can be negated with a will save, DC 15. The save DC is charisma based.

Wail of the Outer Seas, which gives opponents a -2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, saving throws, ability checks and skill checks. This effect can be negated with a will save, DC 15. The save DC is charisma based.

Call of the Deep, which calls out for help. This effect only works while in the ocean. Using this effect for one minute will bring a single creature from the minor aquatic celestial table. The creature will arrive in 1d6 minutes.

Celestial Sound, which emits a burst of noise that stuns all creatures within 10ft for a single round and inflicts 1d8 sonic damage. A successful fortitude save with a DC of 15 will negate the stun. Creatures that do not hear the sound are not stunned but are still damaged. This sound cannot penetrate a silence spell. The save DC is charisma based.

Reality warp (Ex):
As a one minute action, It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice can secure control over a space in the shape of a cube 1000ft across for one minute. When this effect ends, It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice becomes exhausted. This ability continues to function for its full duration even if It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice loses consciousness or is forced into hibernation. This cube can be located wherever It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice likes, as long as it is within it. The space loops on opposite sides, meaning exiting from the top causes one to enter from the bottom, leaving north causes one to exit south, etcetera. Any attempt to teleport out of the space automatically fails, but otherwise teleportation is allowed within the space. Once the space has been secured, It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice may choose any one of the following effects once per round, as a free action even if unconscious or hibernating.

Slow Time, allowing It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice to perform two rounds worth of actions in a single round.

Teleport, allowing It Yeek'Kal Thet to teleport any single creature other than herself to any other position in the space. This can be negated with a will save, DC 11. The save DC is intelligence based.

Death, killing a single target instantly if they cannot succeed a fortitude save with a DC of 11. The save DC is intelligence based.

Freeze, dealing 1d6 cold damage to all targets inside with no save. This does not affect targets the user doesn't want it to.

Confusion, confusing all characters inside the space for a single round if they cannot succeed a will save with a DC of 11. The save DC is intelligence based.

Stun, stunning all creatures inside the space for a single round if they cannot succeed a reflex save with a DC of 11. The save DC is intelligence based.

Sensory deprivation, blinding and deafening all creatures inside the space for a single round if they cannot succeed a reflex save with a DC of 11. The save DC is intelligence based.

Spells (Sp):
A voice of It Yeek'Kal Thet's can also imitate the spellcasting abilities of a mortal creature, allowing it to cast spells like a 10th level ranger.

Disembodied voice (Ex):
As a creature of psychic voice, the Voice of It Yeek'Kal Thet is incorporeal. It is also fully invisible.

Terraphobic (Ex):
The voice of It Yeek'Kal Thet is afraid of being on land. After being on land for 1 round per point of intelligence, it becomes shaken. After being on land for 1 minute per point of intelligence, it becomes frightened and attempts to return to the water. After being on land for 1 hour per point of intelligence, it panics and will flee for water blindly and at all costs. If it is on land to retrieve one of It Yeek'Kal Thet's offspring, it uses its faith score instead.

That Which Can Eternal Lie (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice cannot be slain through any means. Instead, in situations where death would normally occur, it enters hibernation. While hibernating, it becomes extremely resilient to damage, and has its natural armour, spell resistance, damage reduction and energy resistance bonuses doubled from 10 to 20. While hibernating, its regeneration is reduced to 5 per day. It will exit hibernation only upon reaching full HP again.

No damage type inflicts lethal damage to it. It will still be rendered unconscious as normal by nonlethal damage, but will not be forced into hibernation until it has incurred nonlethal damage equal to twice its maximum hit points. It is immune to ability drain, any drain inflicted instead becomes temporary damage, which recovers one point each day with or without rest. Death effects do not kill it, instead they inflict nonlethal damage equal to its full HP, and if disintegrated it will be forced into hibernation with nonlethal damage inflicted equal to twice its maximum HP in addition to pre-existing damage. A coup de grace only deals nonlethal damage equal to its max HP, and it cannot be killed by massive damage. Even Wish and Miracle cannot kill it, and instead inflict nonlethal damage equal to her full HP if it is already hibernating, and only if it is already hibernating. Attempts to soul trap It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice automatically fail, destroying the object attempting to trap it and, if it is triggered directly by a caster, trapping the caster instead.

Even while hibernating, it is not immobile. Instead, it crawls at 5ft/round towards water, usually choosing to remain still when observed, and once in water sinks to the bottom at 60ft/round.

Regeneration (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice regenerates 10 hit points per round when not hibernating.

Deep Retreat (Ex):
It Yeek'Kal Thet's voice takes no damage from deep water.

And now for the single highest level character in the setting, guarding the Tomb of the Mother in the middle of the Otherlands, right on the western coastline of the western continent of Sohei.

Spoiler: Takamoto Tengu

Show

Takamoto Tengu is the leader of the Sentinels of K'Macthia, a legion responsible for keeping K'Macthia sealed in the Tomb of the Mother. He was born in the otherlands, in a small estate on a hill near the border. When he was 7, his parents were killed by an oni*, but he managed to kill the creature with his father's sword. He refused to leave the estate, and lived there alone for seventeen years, maintaining it and fending off attacks until eventually the estate was completely destroyed by a tatarigami** and he had to leave. He journeyed deeper for a time, in hopes of finding the source of the spreading otherlands, now having decided to destroy it if he could. After twenty-eight years of travel, what he found was the Tomb of the Mother and the body of K'Macthia. Unable to destroy her, he joined the legion defending the Tomb, came under the mentorship of its leader and eventually replaced him.

Race: Human
Age: 344 (Young adult)***
Size: Medium
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 155lbs
Skin color: Pale
Hair color: Black
Eye color: Brown
Class: Fighter 30
Str: 10
Dex: 36 (base 25)
Con: 21 (Base 10)
Int: 24 (Base 18)
Cha: 17 (base 12)
Fth: 10 (base 4)
HP: 315
AC: 34 (Base 10, dex +13, armor +11), touch 23, flat-footed 20
Spell resistance: 30 (Level +30)****
Damage reduction: 10/Slashing*****
Energy resistance: 7 (All)
Speed: 30ft/round
Saves: For +29, Ref +30, Will +17
Base attack /grapple: +30/30
Attack: Nodachi +52/47/42/37/32/27 melee (4d8+28 slash) or longbow +57/52/47/42/37/32 (2d10+10 pierce, 1d6 fire)******
Skills: Speak language (Soheigo) 2, literacy (Soheigo) 2, speak language (Manane) 2, literacy (Manane) 2, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Celestial) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (Local) 10, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Climb 15, Handle Animal 15, Intimidate 15, Swim 15
Feats: Weapon finesse, improved weapon finesse, edge alignment, improved critical, weapon focus (greatsword), weapon specialization (greatsword), greater weapon focus (greatsword), greater weapon specialization (greatsword), aimed attack, improved aimed attack, wounding strike, armor focus (clothing), armor specialization (clothing), greater armor focus (clothing), greater armor specialization (clothing), weapon focus (longbow), weapon specialization (longbow), greater weapon focus (longbow), greater weapon specialization (longbow), combat reflexes, combat expertise, point blank shot, far shot, precise shot, improved precise shot, great fortitude, lightning reflexes, iron will*******
Equipment: Celestial ghost touch nodachi +5, ghost touch longbow +5, celestial yukata & haori+5 of flexibility +6*******, celestial steel arrows of flaming burst +5 (60), amulet of health +6, headband of intellect +6, gloves of dexterity +6, periapt of faith +6, cloak of resistance +5
Encumbrance: 27lbs (light)

*Common Oni, CR 3, Oriental Adventures.

**This yokai is specifically a greater fire tatarigami, CR 15, is not featured in any sourcebook but appears in Aelsif. Tatarigami are corrupted kami, which are basically a more powerful (CR 9 or 13) version of the standard nature spirits (CR 1, 3 or 5). As a fire tatarigami, this spirit's powers are primarily related to fire. I'm certain I don't need to explain why he, way back when he was mid level and on his own, had to flee from a CR 15 fire spirit.

***Yeah, that's not normal at all. Blame little Kirei's age manipulation magic for that one.

****This is the main difference between wisdom and faith. Wisdom contributes to skills, faith adds to the system's standard spell resistance. Your SR does not block spells you don't want it to.

*****You may note my AC and DR armour thread talking about this, armour in Aelsif is vastly superior to armour in other D&D settings, and this is a big part of it. It's worth noting, however, that the DR wouldn't be nearly so high if his clothing wasn't made of celestial fabric and he didn't have armor specialization and greater armor specialization.

******Celestial weapons have huge damage dice, but otherwise this is just a ghost touch greatsword +5. The bow's immense damage is also coming from the use of celestial steel in its arrows, and the fact that both the bow and the arrows are +5.

*******Improved weapon finesse is weapon finesse but for any weapon. Edge alignment allows slash weapons do use dex for damage. Aimed attack allows a single attack to add int to attack on top of your normal ability bonus and the improved version also lets it add to damage. Wounding strike deals 2 con damage on a critical hit. Armor focus gives +2 AC, armor specialization gives +2 DR/ER, and I feel like I'm writing the whole damn sourcebook so I'm going to stop making notes now.

And now, another epic level Sentinel of K'Macthia, and the one who invented the age manipulation spell.

Spoiler: Kawaii Kirei

Show

Just as a quick note to start with, it's actually Kawai, but she's been going by Kawaii for over 300 years so we're sticking to it. Kawaii Kirei has always been a talented sorceress. She cast her first spell, ray of frost, when she was barely two years old. As a child growing up on the border of the otherlands, she always found magic to be useful, for everything from simple chores to dealing with monsters, she found plenty of use for her spells. Her life remained relatively uneventful throughout her childhood, and when her father passed it was from natural causes when he was over a century old and Kirei was an adult, a rare enough thing in the Otherlands. That didn't stop Kirei from being devastated by his death. Determined to find a way to prevent that from happening to her mother, she began to research magic to manipulate the age of individuals, but her mother died less than a year after she started.

She finished it anyway, two years too late to save anyone she truly cared about, and now with only herself to work with she spent the following centuries changing ages like most people would change shoes as she continued to study magic abroad. Eventually, she decided to see what there was to learn in the Otherlands, and entered them to see what arcane secrets might lurk within. There, she met a young wizard about the age she had chosen to appear. She decided this was quite fortuitous, and after quite a bit of flirting and sharing information he told her he was going to Join the Sentinels of K'Macthia, and they went there together. It was another sixty years before the secret of her age manipulation got out, and since then she's been keeping the highest level sentinels exactly as young or old as they want. (Which is better than plan B: Turn into an infant and leave herself on somebody's doorstep.)

Eventually, she settled on her current form, and has been a small child for over three hundred years. She may defend it on practical grounds, but really she just likes being cute and all the added affection it gets her.

Race: Spirit folk (water)
Age: 755 (Child)
Size: Small
Height: 3' 4"
Weight: 35lbs
Skin: Pale
Hair: Blue
Eyes: Blue
Class: Sorcerer 25
Str: 4
Dex: 25 (Base 14)
Con: 23 (Base 12)
Int: 16
Cha: 39 (Base 28)
Fth: 4
HP: 212
AC: 25 (Base 10, +1 size, +7 dex, +7 armor)
Spell resistance: 22 (Level +25, Fth -3)
Damage reduction: 8/Slashing
Energy resistance: 5 (All)
Speed: 20ft/round
Saves: For +19, Ref +20, Will +16
Base attack /grapple: +12/5
Attack: Crossbow +30 ranged (2d8+10 pierce and 1d6 cold) or +15/10/5 melee (1d10+2 pierce/slash and 1d6 cold)
Skills: Speak language (Soheigo) 2, literacy (Soheigo) 2, speak language (Manane) 2, literacy (Manane) 2, speak language (It'haha) 2, literacy (It'haha) 2, speak language (Elvish) 2, literacy (Elvish) 2, speak language (Dwarven) 2, literacy (Dwarven) 2, Bluff 25, concentration 25, Knowledge (Arcana) 25, Spellcraft (25)
Feats: Maximise spell, quicken spell, repeat spell, silent spell, still spell, empower spell, energy substitution (cold), twin spell, repeat spell
Equipment: Small keen light crossbow +5, small celestial icy burst bolts +5 (30), small celestial icy burst dagger +5, celestial Yukata & Haori +5 of reinforcement +2, Cloak of resistance +5, Gloves of dexterity +6, cloak of charisma +6*, amulet of health +6.
Encumbrance: 6lbs (light)

*Okay, seriously, last note. The cloak here actually is her haori, not an actual cloak.

Also, do I need a full spell list for the little sorceress here? Or is this enough, given that she clearly loves ungodly amounts of ice spam? I mean, she has all the spam metamagic, and can make any energy cold at will (though obviously she wouldn't against It Yeek'Kal Thet) and she's a sorceress with 39 charisma, it should be clear her MO is to float high in the sky and unleash bullet hell like a Touhou character. (Who, not coincidentally, also all happen to look like little girls way younger than they actually are.)

[zlefin]

It Yeek doesn't seem cr 30 to me; as a guess I'd peg it more around 23 CR. and at this board's medium or higher optimization levels, might be killed quite quickly and easily (slightly depending on what sources are allowed). at low optimization levels it should be fine though (most offline groups are at low optimization)
when hibernating, can it take actions other than the mild movement stuff?
I recommend making It completely immune to ability drain and damage, otherwise allips would keep it shut down too easily.

do you use the epic magic items rules? or any of the other epic rules (like for feats and such).

what's the wbl people will have post-20? (and is wbl altered in your campaign)

[Avianmosquito]

It Yeek doesn't seem cr 30 to me; as a guess I'd peg it more around 23 CR. and at this board's medium or higher optimization levels, might be killed quite quickly and easily (slightly depending on what sources are allowed).

Do recall the lack of epic content, that beating her summons mutiple creatures able to heal her and that she's quite good at healing herself, too. But I can buff her pretty easy. Like say, reducing the cast time and cost on her reality warp and increasing the damage on her, I remind you, 15 melee attacks per round that also grapple for free.

at low optimization levels it should be fine though (most offline groups are at low optimization)
when hibernating, can it take actions other than the mild movement stuff?

No. But her voices appear and will likely dump healing on her.

I recommend making It completely immune to ability drain and damage, otherwise allips would keep it shut down too easily.

Aren't they subject to spell resistance?

do you use the epic magic items rules? or any of the other epic rules (like for feats and such).

Nope. I have a replacer, but it just lets your regular stuff from classes keep going. HD, BaB, saves, fighter bonus feats, rogue sneak attacks, that stuff.

what's the wbl people will have post-20? (and is wbl altered in your campaign)

I don't use WBL. Never have, never will, don't like the concept, especially don't like how people think it's a rule when it's a guideline.