Rogue Ponderings

[Svethnika]

I'm trying to think of a rogue-ish character for the Savage Tide setting that some of my friends are starting up. I rolled, 18, 17, 15, 13, 11, 8.

I want to put the 18 into dex (I'll get weapon finesse and the shadow blade feat(or something, I think it is from TOB ) to replace strength for atk and dmg rolls.) and I want to put the 17 into int because of insightful strike (from the swashbuckler) I'm not sure if I should make str or chr the dump stat. Wisdom is useful for the sword sage too, since they get an ac bonus and an insightful strike with wisdom. I know con is lauded (though, personally, it seems like the benefit it can give can be totally irrelevant depending on how your roll your hp, so I don't quite get its worth beyond the fortitude saves it gives.

Right now I am thinking I want to play a human with levels in Swash Buckler, and Sword Sage in near equal portions, at least with Sword Sage ahead because Swashbuckler doesn't look too great after third level desppite the full bab. The rest I want to fill up with rogue, at least I think.
So right now, since it starts at level 10, I'd be looking at Rogue 4 Sword Sage 3(with emphasis shadow hand) Swashbuckler 3. After this point I plan to go heavy into rogue-hood. But that plan is really flexible, in theory I could go 3 and 3 into R and SB and then go heavy into sword sage. Also, I want to take advantage of the shadow hand "assassin's stance" from TOB.

In terms of prestige classes, I'm not set on anything but I'd like to try assassin, especially for flavour reasons. However, I'm not sure if death attack is worth it. Standing around for three rounds seems boring and I could be sneak attacking by turning invisible or doing something else. So I'm iffy, though it has sneak attack and poison use. Is death attack really that useful?

Shadowdancer seems nice but I dunno if its worth it, the first level is nice, needs stuff I'd have anyways plus combat reflexes, and up to mobility, plus five sp into perform dance which isn't a huge deal. I'd possibly take Night Song enforcer because it has a full bab and sneak attack, it requires improved init and stuff I'd have already anyways. So it is quite a commitment to get in.

Thief Acrobat is a very nice looking prestige class to me because I really dig the mobility aspects and is easy to get into.

For flavour any of these prestige classes are great but I want to be effective too.

Beyond weapon finesse (SB class feature), Daring outlaw (from complete scoundrel), and Shadow Blade I really don't have any idea for feats or weapons. I'd ~like~ to have a spiked chain, but maybe duel weilding daggers or something would be good too. I know its a lot of writing and is probably more muddled than you guys are used to but does anyone have any suggestions? I want to be able to hit things consistently and be sneaky dangerous, but beyond that I'm not sure. Any suggestions or comments would be great.

Oh. The books I am currently looking at and have access to are phb, dmg, complete warrior, complete adventurer, complete scoundrel, tome of battle.

(Oh this is also my first post hurrah I've been lurking for a while. Its nice to post now )

[Arbitrarity]

Shadow blade requires you wield shadow hand discipline weapons, so sai, unarmed strike, short sword, dagger, spiked chain, and something I can't recall.

Get swordsage after other classes if you start at 10. Higher IL is a good thing, so rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 3/rogue 1, in that order, is probably good. You get enough IL to pick up Assassin's stance, and other 3rd level manuvers.

[Abstruse]

[QUOTE=Svethnika;3004243]...but maybe dual-wielding daggers or something would be good too...

Oh. The books I am currently looking at and have access to are phb, dmg, complete warrior, complete adventurer, complete scoundrel, tome of battle./QUOTE]

You might consider the Invisible Blade from Complete Warrior as a PrC. Unfortunately, it does kill your advancement in swordsage dead, but it's a useful roguish class, particularly if you can convince your DM to get rid of the ridiculous Point Blank Shot and Far Shot feat prereqs.

[Svethnika]

Arbitrarity: Thanks for the advice! Would getting sword sage as the very last three levels be even better then?

Abstruse: It looks interesting. I don't understand how it kills my swordsage advancement though. I would only use it for two levels since my charisma and bluff skills are probably goign to be low so I won't benefit from the feinting action.

[Amiria]

No, it doesn't matter if you take the swordsage levels after the sixth or seventh level. Initiator level : 2 for non-martial adept classes is rounded down, so it is 3 or 3.5 => also 3.

However, your first stance when you take any martial adept class is always a 1st level stance, regardless of you IL. But a swordsage gets his second stance at 2nd level so then you can take Assassin's Stance.

Personally, I would wait until after the 8th level to start with Swordsage. Youll only have 2 swordsage levels then, but still Assassin's Stance and all of your starting maneuvers can be 3rd level maneuvers (8 non-martial adept classes = IL 4, + 1st Swordsage = IL 5) .

[Generic PC]

I know next to nothing about TOB at all, but i would say a sneak PrC from there would be quite good. It would raise IL, and many Sword Sage manueveurs seems very good. (at first glance, i would say the Swordsage has best all around. Though Warblade is rather good too.)

[Arbitrarity]

Problem is, there aren't any "sneaky" PrC's from ToB. RKV is cleric/Paladin based, Shadow Sun Ninja is a monk/unarmed swordsage PrC, and all the rest are generally straight up fighting.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm trying to think of a rogue-ish character for the Savage Tide setting that some of my friends are starting up. I rolled, 18, 17, 15, 13, 11, 8.

I want to put the 18 into dex (I'll get weapon finesse and the shadow blade feat(or something, I think it is from TOB ) to replace strength for atk and dmg rolls.) and I want to put the 17 into int because of insightful strike (from the swashbuckler)

The rest I want to fill up with rogue, at least I think.

You haven't said what you wanted to do other than combat with your Rogueish character. Skill points can make or break your character's ability to avoid taking damage. If you're thinking ahead, you can get the best benefit by putting the 18 into INT and starting as a Rogue for the initial boost to skill points. You can make your first stat increase go to DEX to catch up there.

Being able to Move Silently, Tumble, and Hide can get you through enemies without taking any damage. Search and Disable Device can do the same for traps. These skills are worth a lot of HP that you won't be losing. I generally make CON my dump stat when playing a Rogue, and have had much success with that approach. (An Ioun stone to soak up incoming spells helps when your Fortitude save isn't great.)

[Svethnika]

Thanks for the responses guys

Good ideas Amiria. Luckily island of blades (allowing you to flank while merely adjacent to a creature) is available at level 1 too.

Wow Curmudgeon... good idea. I knew I would put a rogue level first but making int the 18 stat first makes that plan even better :) I hadn't considered making con dump either. Plus if I make str 11 I don't get a negative modifier for things like climb and swim (presumably there will be ship riding so that could be important. Higher wis would also be useful for spot and listen. I want to have skills in mobility, and stealth basically. Balance, Climb, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Spot, Swim Tumble and Use Rope a bit. I know that the party doesn't do much role playing at all so Charisma based skills are not important. By level 8 I could add one to dex and to wis to gain their benefits and put the next attribute increase onto dex to make me more deadly and qualify for greater two weapons fighting... I know I'm kinda thinking to myself here.
Thanks for the reply.

[Douglas]

Good ideas Amiria. Luckily island of blades (allowing you to flank while merely adjacent to a creature) is available at level 1 too.

Just make sure you read the actual text of the stance. The summary is a little misleading. You still need an ally to flank with, he just doesn't have to be on the opposite side.

[Svethnika]

Just make sure you read the actual text of the stance. The summary is a little misleading. You still need an ally to flank with, he just doesn't have to be on the opposite side.

Thats what I meant to write, haha