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  1. - Top - End - #1081
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Animals (3)


    MORE animals, because people totally want to roleplay a porpoise in an epic tale of fantasy and adventure.

    Lizard

    Less than one RHD, incredibly low ability scores, Tiny size, and no real abilities other than a climb speed and a bite attack. Awful all around, -0 LA.

    Lizard, Monitor

    Medium-sized, okay stats, one bite attack of decent power, a swim speed and a bonus to sneaky skills... but is it worth 3 RHD? I wouldn't say so, -0 LA here as well.

    Manta Ray

    I will never understand why these animals made the monster manual when much more common beasts like rabbits, deer, and chickens never did. Guess the developers were just really expecting everybody to go fight peaceful, harmless aquatic animals in their spare time.

    Anyways, an obvious -0 LA. The awful stats and weak natural attack (secondary, even), as well as their inability to function on dry land, make me wonder whether I'd have assigned them +0 LA if they'd had no HD. In their present form, burdened with four of them, anything higher than -0 would be indefensible.

    Monkey

    Going to go ahead and assume tool use is possible here. Monkeys have little going for them except for a dexterity bonus and Tiny size, but then again so do muckdwellers/jermlaines and it's not like these never get played either. Besides, free Weapon Finesse is any rogue's dream. +0 LA.

    Mule

    Large, with decent physical stats and natural attacks, but 3 RHD hurts a lot. I wouldn't call these better than the various horses reviewed one post ago, so -0 LA it is.

    Octopus

    Finally something with actual special abilities! Improved Grab is probably not going to be worth it on a Small creature (note that the grapple value given in the statblock is wrong; it should be four points lower), but Jet is some kind of super-run that doesn't appear to care about terrain, and Ink Cloud has a decent effect at low levels. Note that both of the latter abilities can be used outside of the water just fine.

    I know the chassis is awful, but maybe, just maybe, some build could put the special abilities to good use. Out of consideration for such a character (and because octopuses are awesome), I'm going to mark these down as very weak +0s.

    Octopus, Giant

    Because why create new monsters if you could just inflate the HD of the old ones and call it a day?

    8 RHD are usually a death rattle for any kind of animal, and giant octopuses are no exception. They're big, and they have decent reach, but the RHD just kill this. Be a ranger and wildshape into one if you want to be a humongous cephalopod that badly, but the base creature is getting -0 LA.

    Owl

    Much like the hawk, but slower and weaker, and also much quieter. I guess it's still worth +0 LA, but overall hawks are probably better.

    Pony

    2 RHD, medium, +2 to all physical stats, no thumbs, slightly above-average speed, and two awful natural attacks. -0 LA.

    Pony, War

    Because the halfling cavalry needed mounts and they were out of riding dogs or something. It's like the pony, but with incredible features such as Natural-Weapons-That-Suck-A-Little-Less and Slightly-Higher-Abilities. Still -0.

    Porpoise

    Another of these creatures only useful in a very narrow environment. Yes, 80 ft. swim speed and 120 ft. blindsight are neat, but not if it means giving up two levels, your limbs, and any hope of getting multiple skill points per level. -0 LA.

    Rat

    Tiny and dextrous, with climb and swim speeds. Weapon Finesse for free is neat, but is this really still worth +0 LA? For now, that's what I'll go with.

    Raven

    Final monster of the day is the raven, yet another <1 RHD bird. The eagle>hawk>owl chain of downgrades continues, but even so I think the combination of ECL 1 flight and Weapon Finesse is too strong to deem useless. +0 LA once more.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-12-21 at 04:51 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #1082
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I agree with all these assessments.

    About the octopus, it doesn't seem right to me that squid get a racial bonus on Grapple checks, while octopus don't. I think the Grapple mistake is holdover from somebody thinking they were supposed to get the same bonus as a squid. As a DM, I'd probably give them the +4 bonus. But, I'd also probably rule that Jet and Ink Cloud don't work out of water, because I'm pretty sure that was the RAI.

  3. - Top - End - #1083
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Monkey

    Going to go ahead and assume tool use is possible here. Monkeys have little going for them except for a dexterity bonus and Tiny size, but then again so do muckdwellers/jermlaines and it's not like these never get played either. Besides, free Weapon Finesse is any rogue's dream. +0 LA.
    Every rogue dreams of -8 to Intelligence. Dexterity-based characters and skill-based characters greatly overlap, and the animal intelligence torpedoes the monkey's usefulness to this group. This has got to be LA -0.
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  4. - Top - End - #1084
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    biggrin Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    If you get past the Int penalty, you can literally be a skillmonkey.

  5. - Top - End - #1085
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Jermlaine, muckdweller, probably some varieties of hengeyokai, tibbit, web!kobold with the Slight Build trait, and maybe, like, grig. Those are basically your options if you want to be (or count as for some purposes) Tiny, outside of monkey.

    If you're Tiny, you want to be a spellcaster, because you don't threaten unless you're in your opponent's space. (Or I guess you might be wanting to do some sort of Confound The Big Folk build. Or I guess you can use a reach weapon and then threaten what a normal character does. But in either case -8 str hurts, although you do get Weapon Finesse and +4 dex for free.) But you don't want to be a wizard/psion/etc because -8 int, and you don't want to be a sorcerer/etc because -4 cha. So you want to be a cleric or whatnot, but clerics are the caster that least wants to be Tiny. Or maybe you can be a warlock/dragonfire adept and not bother with invocations that have a save.

    Total ability scores are -14, taking a hit on both the physical and mental side, and you don't threaten without a reach weapon. In exchange, you've got a little bit of AC and attack bonus from being Tiny, you're good at Balance, and you have a climb speed.

    At first thought I was going to agree with +0, but on reviewing the evidence, I'mm'a concur with Flickerdart, -0 for the monkey, yeah.

  6. - Top - End - #1086
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I am now imagining leopards pulling plows, and it is awesome.
    Would snow leopards pull snowplows ... ?

    The rat is another creature which generous DMs might consider to have hands. If so, +0, and if not, -0. Those racial skill bonuses will rarely come into play besides the +4 stealth, and stat mods total to -9. No hands, no friggin' way.
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  7. - Top - End - #1087
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    Jermlaine, muckdweller, probably some varieties of hengeyokai, tibbit, web!kobold with the Slight Build trait, and maybe, like, grig. Those are basically your options if you want to be (or count as for some purposes) Tiny, outside of monkey.
    Myconid (junior worker) is my favorite Tiny creature (Plant type, -2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha). LA +2, though (pre-Inevitability, at least).

  8. - Top - End - #1088
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Would snow leopards pull snowplows ... ?
    Would bobcats pull bobsleds?

  9. - Top - End - #1089
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Myconid (junior worker) is my favorite Tiny creature (Plant type, -2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha). LA +2, though (pre-Inevitability, at least).
    Another solid choice for being Tiny.

    Although whether you can swap that RHD out to a class level as a Tiny one may be a little DM-dependent: a DM might reasonably, as I do, treat the entire myconid progression from Junior Worker to Sovereign as a single monster class, in which case you might not be able to swap out any of the RHD -- but if one rules the way I do, the LA should probably be bumped down to +1 (as, again, I do), but not +0, because the Plant type is worth at least a full point of LA on its own.

    But if the DM rules (also reasonably) that each myconid age class is a separate creature and the Junior Worker's RHD can be swapped out for a class level, the devs-given +2 is probably actually almost appropriate.

  10. - Top - End - #1090
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    If monkeys and baboons can wield weapons because of opposing digits and examples in nature, I would like to nominate avians and octopuses as tool-users too. Zygodactyl feet can grasp like hands and a few birds have been observed using tools to overcome physical limitations. Octopuses in captivity can learn to open jars and the coconut octopus is technicalities away from being called a tool-user. If I'm going to fight alongside a discount Sun Wukong, I want to play a literal Merlin!
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  11. - Top - End - #1091
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    The giant octopus seems at least comparable to fighter/barbarian of similar levels. It gets 9 natural attacks!

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I'm glad that I'm not the only person to think it was seriously weird to have the Manta Ray in the MM. I didn't even remember it was in there until I was using it as an example in a homebrew thread over animal riders.

    I'm agreeing with everything said so far. Also I'd like to pipe up that if you manage to get your DM to allow your raven character to be a dispossessed familiar, you get a free language and thus become able to use wands and the like.
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  13. - Top - End - #1093
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Animals (4)


    Going to go ahead and do all the remaining animals at once. It's not like each of them is going to be thoroughly debated in the main thread.

    Rhinoceros

    Large size, decent physical stats, aaaaaand there's the 8 RHD. Another for the -0 pile. Even its sole special ability doesn't function properly: rather than increase or double your charge damage, it sets it to a fixed amount, thereby eliminating what was probably the last viable strategy at this level.

    Shark, Medium

    A decent swim speed and a bite attack, as well as a quite situational aquatic scent ability and some blindsense. I suspect being a normal character and taking a shark as your companion would be better in every way. -0 LA for these.

    Shark, Large

    It's large, yes, but it's also very pricy (7 RHD). -0 LA.

    Shark, Huge

    I'm having dragon purgatory flashbacks. -0 LA.

    Snake, Constrictor

    3 RHD, medium size, okay stats, decent bite attack, and low speeds in three movement modes. Predictably, there's an improved grab and a constrict ability, which I guess is still semi-usable at ECL 3, but I'll go with -0 for now.

    Snake, Giant Constrictor

    MORE animals with additional HD and little other change. In case you were wondering, the extra HD did not redeem this thing, so -0 LA it is.

    Snake, Tiny Viper

    Surprisingly interesting. Sure, the speed sucks, but 1d6 constitution damage is surprisingly potent for an at-will ECL 1 poison, Weapon Finesse for free is always nice, and the three movement modes are still useful as well. Barely worth +0 LA, mostly because of some niche uses.

    Snake, Small Viper

    Basically a straight upgrade from the tiny viper, so +0 LA once more.

    Snake, Medium Viper

    2 RHD? Not going to cut it when the main selling point is 'bite attack that deals more than one damage, sometimes'.

    Snake, Large Viper

    Surprisingly enough, these may actually be better than the medium ones. I know, I was surprised too, but a size upgrade and +2 strength may actually be worth the extra HD. Still -0 LA though.

    Snake, Huge Viper

    Either you are reading this because I just posted this and you read through all of it, or because you're actually considering playing an unintelligent limbless serpent with 6 RHD. I'd point out that they deserve -0 LA, but I feel like if you're here you're not the person to care about optimization anyways.

    Squid

    A larger octopus with another HD, slightly better stats (though intelligence went down), a higher jet speed, and the removed ability to move around on land. The grapple bonuses are neat, but the extra HD tips this over the -0 LA threshold in my opinion.

    Squid, Giant

    12 RHD? I'm not even sure I need to say this is -0 LA, but here it is anyway.

    Tiger

    Lion with bigger numbers and one additional RHD? I'll allow it. +0 LA.

    Toad

    The toad, only notable for being invisible to peasants when sitting straight in front of them on a twillit flat plain while surrounded by candles. Other than a great Hide bonus (which is still worse than a hairy spider's), there is literally no reason to play a toad. -0 LA.

    Weasel

    Tiny, with free Weapon Finesse, a dexterity bonus, a climb speed, a weak bite attack, and an Attach ability that's so incredibly weak I'm not sure how the developers expected it to be used (seriously, even against foes with only 2 HP it's risky to use). -0 LA.

    Whale, Baleen

    12 RHD? No, just no. 'Big aquatic air-breathing meatshield' is such an incredibly narrow role that I just can't imagine a campaign where a character like this would be relevant.

    Whale, Cachalot

    Oh hey, a baleen whale with a bite attack. Still -0 LA.

    Whale, Orca

    The best of the whales, though that's more because of their lower HD than any kind of inherent ability. -0 LA.

    Wolf

    You could be a riding dog and literally have something that looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and plays like a wolf, but has superior stats in nearly any way. -0 LA.

    Wolverine

    Obligatory: a persisted Monstrous Regeneration spell.

    Basically a dire badger with some minor things switched around. Sure, that'll earn ya +0 LA.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-12-22 at 11:25 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  14. - Top - End - #1094
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Vermin


    Fortunately, D&Ds vermin tend to be somewhat more varied than its animals. Unfortunately, and in blatant disregard of the square-cube law, they also tend to come in half a dozen sizes. This'll be fun.

    Without further ado, let's review the Monster Manual's final critters!

    Giant Ant, Worker


    2 vermin RHD (somehow even worse than animal RHD), awful stats (no physical bonuses whatsoever and no intelligence?), fast land speed, slower climb speed, some neat natural armor, a moderate bite attack with Improved Grab, Scent, and Track as a bonus feat. I'm not sure I'd give this +0 LA if it'd been intelligent, let alone as it is now. -0 LA for sure.

    Giant Ant, Soldier

    Still 2 RHD, but better than the worker in every way. There's +4 strength, +2 constitution, +2 wisdom and +2 charisma, a somewhat stronger bite, and the ability to sting grappled foes for a low amount of acid and piercing damage. I'm fairly sure this is still -0 LA.

    Giant Ant, Queen

    Don't assume these are lumbering noncombatants: giant ant queens are slower than their children, but still significantly faster than a human, and their strength, size and bite attacks are unrivalled by any of the ants reviewed before. That said, they come with 4 RHD, and frankly don't have much going for them other than the bite. -0 LA once more.

    Giant Bee

    While their 80 ft. fly speed may seem attractive, giant bees suffer from a few minor flaws, such as their mindlessness, lack of manipulators, and inability to use their natural attack more than once before dying. They have the questionable honor of being the only MM monster find that can actually be defeated by not doing anything (as opposed to those were inactivity only results in stalemates, like toads and shriekers). The -0 LA is self-explanatory.

    Giant Bombardier Beetle

    Another 2 RHD creature. Ability scores are average, natural armor is decent, bite attack is on the weaker side, and there's no special movement modes. At first glance, these guys are inferior even to giant worker ants.

    They're somewhat redeemed by the unique and interesting ability to spray acid once per round, but to be honest it's so weak and affects such a small area that unless you're facing half a dozen swarmfighting goblins you'd probably be better off being a normal melee guy with an actual weapon. -0 LA once more.

    Giant Fire Beetle

    1 RHD: we're off to a good start. That said, their ability scores are terrible, they have no racial features other than a moderate bite attack and an illumination ability equivalent to a 1 GP item. Don't play this until you want to be a glorified torch with teeth, -0 LA once more.

    Giant Stag Beetle

    Large with 23 strength, but 7 RHD. Compare them to bears, which are stronger, have more attacks, and have less HD, and the -0 LA should be obvious.

    Giant Praying Mantis

    4 RHD, flight, a considerable strength bonus, Large size, and two natural attacks. It's still -0 LA, but at least it's getting closer to a viable character.

    Giant Wasp

    5 RHD and melee abilities inferior to the praying mantis's. The poison is neat, but not enough to salvage this from -0 LA.

    Monstrous Centipede, Tiny

    Tiny, with less than 1 RHD, a dexterity bonus, huge strength penalty, and no intelligence at all. Climb and walk speeds of 20 ft., and an incredibly weak bite attack with what's probably the weakest poison of any monster ever. Yeah, no: -0 LA.

    Monstrous Centipede, Small

    Tiny centipedes, with more speed and strength as well as slightly stronger poisonous bites. I mean, it's still a negligible amount of dex damage, but it's getting better!

    Still -0 LA though.

    Monstrous Centipede, Medium

    Same increases as before: four extra points of strength, 10 feet of movement, and an increase in bite damage and poison dice (it now deals a hefty 1d3 dexterity damage). I want to rate those +0, if only to have vermin with different level adjustments, but I honestly can't justify it to myself.

    -0 again.

    Monstrous Centipede, Large

    3 RHD, with an impressive 13 strength and 1d8 bite. -0 LA.

    Monstrous Centipede, Huge

    Typing this all out is taking more time than coming up with the LA. 6 RHD? 17 strength? Ew: -0 LA.

    Monstrous Centipede, Gargantuan&Colossal

    Because why not go the dragon route. Combining useless monsters ftw!

    Anyway: both of these, the Colossal variant especially, are unusable as PCs. The CR/HD imbalance is simply too great: both deserve -0 LA.

    Monstrous Scorpion, Tiny

    Why the hell did vipers get poison that's equally damaging across all size categories, but not the monstrous vermin? How are they different?

    Monstrous scorpions have two claw attacks, as well as a sting that delivers a weak constitution-damaging poison. Anything hit by their claws can get grappled and constricted, with the scorpion using its dexterity rather than its strength modifier. They also have Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and get tremorsense. Could this be turned into a serviceable rogue build? I think so. Perhaps it won't be the strongest, but it could be made to work. +0 LA, which is probably at least partially my aforementioned desire to have variable LAs.

    Monstrous Scorpion, Small

    Basically slightly bigger tinies with stronger poison and more strength. Sure, that's worth a +0.

    Monstrous Scorpoion, Medium+

    No, for reasons that should be obvious by now. -0 LA.

    Monstrous Spider, Tiny

    Weak strength-damaging poison, a climb speed, free Weapon Finesse, and a web-creating ability that's honestly pretty interesting (being usable as anything from traps to movement to enemy detection to improvised nets). I think +0 LA could be justified here, though that's in no small part based on my one-time tiny monstrous spider character.

    Monstrous Spider, Small

    Tiny spiders but better in almost any way. Sure, that's worth +0 LA.

    Monstrous Spider, Medium+

    And we're back to the unplayable things. -0 LA.
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  15. - Top - End - #1095
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    And with that, the Monster Manual has been fully reviewed! I'd like to thank everybody who's offered encouragement, support, and feedback in the past 20 months, and hope this thread will be of help to anyone wanting to play monstrous characters, whether they already had a LA or not.

    Any suggestions for further books to review are welcome. Right now I'm considering taking a look at some of the smaller books with fewer monsters, but I invite anyone having particular suggestions to share them.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Thank you for all of the effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    This thread, Questions that can't be answered... Answered by RAW by No brains, is Epic.
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    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
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    ...I've clearly been playing D&D for too long, because that made a demented kind of sense.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Woop Woop get some soup!

    anyway i'm pretty exited to start go to some monsters that are not animals or vermin, I want something interesting! lol
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Thank you for the thread, Inevitability.

    Might I suggest doing LM, LoM, BoVD, or FF next?
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    And with that, the Monster Manual has been fully reviewed! I'd like to thank everybody who's offered encouragement, support, and feedback in the past 20 months, and hope this thread will be of help to anyone wanting to play monstrous characters, whether they already had a LA or not.

    Any suggestions for further books to review are welcome. Right now I'm considering taking a look at some of the smaller books with fewer monsters, but I invite anyone having particular suggestions to share them.
    Congrats on the accomplishment.


    I'd like to suggest reviewing the rating system.

    LA -0 is a bit of a catch-all currently, spanning from "this is too weak" into "this is poorly defined" and even "this is too contentious".

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Wow

    Congratulations for completing the MM!
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    The funniest part? IRL, (typically, but not always) the larger the scorpion, the weaker the poison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    A 20th-level fighter should be able to break rainbows in half with their bare hands and then dual-wield the parts of the rainbow.

    Dual-wield the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.

  22. - Top - End - #1102
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Congratulations, Inevitability. And thanks for bringing us this project.

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    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Svata View Post
    The funniest part? IRL, (typically, but not always) the larger the scorpion, the weaker the poison.
    Yeah, but RL scoprions would all be Tiny or smaller.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  24. - Top - End - #1104
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    And with that, the Monster Manual has been fully reviewed! I'd like to thank everybody who's offered encouragement, support, and feedback in the past 20 months, and hope this thread will be of help to anyone wanting to play monstrous characters, whether they already had a LA or not.

    Any suggestions for further books to review are welcome. Right now I'm considering taking a look at some of the smaller books with fewer monsters, but I invite anyone having particular suggestions to share them.
    Thanks for the effort. As for suggestions-I have already thrown my hat in the ring for Dragonlance, specifically the Draconians. The original 5 base Draconians are listed in the Dragonlance campaign setting, which is first party. However, they were updated in 'Dragons of Krynn', which is 2nd Party, along with stats for the 5 noble Draconians and a few Dragons/lizardfolk variants.

    The reason I keep harping on them is a comment you made a while back-because of the inconsistent RHD/LA assigned by WOTC, you wanted perhaps a new baseline to use as a measuring stick. Dragonlance was not published by them, but they at least looked over the licensed material before it got printed; And the 10 varieties of Draconians provide an excellent template because of their abilities. Of the 10, 2 cast as Sorcerers of their RHD; 1 casts as spontaneous Cleric of its RHD; 2 have natural Sneak attack and Poison, cut from the cloth of a Rogue; 2 simply have most of the actual class features of a particular base class of their RHD (Barbarian/Paladin); the 8th is built around 1 specific (Su) ability, and the final 2-Baaz and Frost-have no outstanding abilities, acting as an excellent control group.

    I know we will probably go with a more standard book, but I think this actually fits what you wanted to do better-and it would be a quick work-through, anyway.

  25. - Top - End - #1105
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    A brief announcement: if you didn't feel happy about any of the past LAs for any reason or otherwise believe that by current standards a different adjustment would be assigned, this is the time to bring it up!

    I will, however, request people to not request re-examinations for anything that's been discussed to death already (something something Formian Queen) or voted on, as well as anything where the creature is so detached from the ECL system that any LA is going to be a wildly imprecise approximation (such as efreet).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    LA -0 is a bit of a catch-all currently, spanning from "this is too weak" into "this is poorly defined" and even "this is too contentious".
    Could you please elaborate on this? Specifically, I'd be interested in examples of -0 creatures that fall in the latter two categories.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  26. - Top - End - #1106
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    Caelestion's Avatar

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I would suggest the grey-spined books - Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Hordes of the Abyss and Tyrants of the Nine Hells.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I feel like there should be a ranking of just 0 with out the +/-

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Could you please elaborate on this? Specifically, I'd be interested in examples of -0 creatures that fall in the latter two categories.
    I think this could be helped along by just supporting the various negative-LA threads that have sprung up.

    My own "support" ended up just being a kind of contentious derailment, so I've been hesitant to try again myself, but I would still like to see at least one of those projects go forward.

  29. - Top - End - #1109
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    With those threads instead of going through it by alphabet, hit it by HD, it should make things easier.

    I think we had 3 ways of adjusting, straight - level adjustment, ig hill giant in a 7th level game, free template- ig Half fiend draconic hill giant in a level 12 game, or swapping HD for class levels, ig hill giant with 8 RHD, and 4 warblade levels.

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    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lans View Post
    I feel like there should be a ranking of just 0 with out the +/-
    That's how it used to be. People then objected to the lack of a clear difference between something like a human and a 32 HD giant earwig with no intelligence or manipulators, and it was decided to include -0 LA to avoid creating the impression that all +0 LAs are equally playable.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

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