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  1. - Top - End - #1441
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Future thread title idea (might be too long?):

    The LA-assignment thread IV: The Level Adjustment Bureau
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-02-20 at 04:34 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #1442
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I'd suggest "LA Assignment Thread", i.e. having it in title case and without a hyphen.

  3. - Top - End - #1443
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I'll second
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    LA Assignment Thread IV: Live Free or Hit Die Hard
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  4. - Top - End - #1444
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Bloodrot


    These charmingly named undead have 10 RHD, medium size, and a less-than-stellar speed. The ability scores are downright insulting: its the average ooze's abysmal stats, now made worse by the lack of a constitution score.

    Bloodrots have one natural slam attack that deals an unimpressive 1d6 damage and infects the target with Blood Fever: a curse that slowly damages constitution and charisma. There's some side effects that include liquefaction upon death and resistance to healing spells, but overall it's not that much better than any other disease ability.

    The slam also come with improved grab and constrict, which are a lot less impressive once you realize this thing has +8 to grapple at level 10. For your information, a random sample of CR 8 monsters revealed grapple modifiers of +8 (on the rakshasa, an under-HDed caster) to +37 (monstrous scorpions), with most being somewhere in the 15-20 range.

    Bloodrots also get two abilities related to their awful disease: Track Infected, which gives information about the position of creatures they've infected as long as they stay within a few miles, and Sanguineous Mount.

    Now, I'll be fair, the latter is actually pretty cool. It's unique, flavorful, and surprisingly useful. Basically, the ability allows the bloodrot to enter the body of anything it's infected, which then nauseates (!) them for up to 24 hours, while also guarding the bloodrot from further harm.

    The issue with what would otherwise be an awesome save-or-lose is that it requires at least one turn to set up, gives the target two saving throws to resist, and prevents the bloodrot from taking any more actions after it's nauseated a target. Also, you have to be a bloodrot to use it.

    Finally, there's the Split ability, which I admit does a lot for making the monster version more threatening (I dare all DMs to try and infect the whole party with bloodrots). However, as something that's really not balanced for PCs, all it does here is add an asterisk to the LA of -0.

    Tier, if I had to give one, would probably be around 5, and that's being generous.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-02-25 at 02:21 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #1445
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    What book is that from? I don't believe I've ever run across it before.

  6. - Top - End - #1446
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    What book is that from? I don't believe I've ever run across it before.
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  7. - Top - End - #1447
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    yikes that thing is something... def agree -0*

  8. - Top - End - #1448
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    That infestation ability is pretty cool, but not very useful. Hellwasp Swarm at least gets control of the infested body.

    LA -0* (ugh)

  9. - Top - End - #1449
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I agree. This is not meant for PCs. I do have some neat ideas to use them against a party now though.

    -0*
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  10. - Top - End - #1450
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    -0* I am all for finding ways to make monsters playable for PCs, but I am going to throw my towel into the ring before the first bell on this one. I do not see any way of salvaging it. Unintelligent Undead with -10 Dex and Wis? Somehow, combining an Ooze and Undead gets you exactly what you would expect.

    On the plus side, it is not technically blind-it is Undead rather than Ooze, and while it possesses blindsight, nowhere in the rules or description is it actually stated to be blind-chalk it up to WOTC assuming that most players would see [Undead Ooze] and assume blindness, except they forgot to write it in there anywhere.
    Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2018-02-24 at 11:51 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #1451
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Um...

    Ummm...

    No, not even Sentry Ooze can save this thing (because it's not a legal target for that template).


    The bloodrot is basically a disease vector; more a plot point than a combat encounter. You put these somewhere in the sewers/swamp/unholy laboratory as the source of an infestation. You can't really play it. Assign -0* with extreme prejudice.
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  12. - Top - End - #1452
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    -0*

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  13. - Top - End - #1453
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I suppose I should have guessed when I read "10 undead RHD" on a corporeal monster...

    Does seem like a cool encounter though. Any others that we've done that totally suck as PCs but make cool enemies to fight?
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  14. - Top - End - #1454
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Does seem like a cool encounter though. Any others that we've done that totally suck as PCs but make cool enemies to fight?
    Most of the very HD-inflated stuff, like oozes and undead, tend to be much better as monsters than PCs.
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  15. - Top - End - #1455
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Also, people might remember the PbP game I talked about some time ago. Good news: I made a recruitment thread! Feel free to drop by if you're interested in playing (or DMing for) some ridiculous monstrous PCs!

    Note that any amount of people can join.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  16. - Top - End - #1456
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Most of the very HD-inflated stuff, like oozes and undead, tend to be much better as monsters than PCs.
    Though they tend to be the most boring monsters. There are some exceptions, but the HD-inflated monsters are usually just big beatsticks.
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  17. - Top - End - #1457
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Jumping on the -0 bandwagon, RHD doing what it does, making monsters completely unplayable for PCs. :(
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  18. - Top - End - #1458
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Bog Imp


    These fey actually do have a LA already, but it's a ridiculously high +5. For comparison, these things only have 4 RHD, so it doesn't take much to see how it could be lowered a bit.

    Ability scores (especially dexterity) are surprisingly high, and a 30 ft. land and swim speed are more than I expected. Even more impressive is the 60 ft. burrow speed, which applies to all movement through anything more viscous than clear water. DR 5/cold iron makes up for the awful HD, and a few immunities (acid, paralysis, poison and sleep) round everything off.

    The chassis is decent, but what about the special abilities?

    Sicken adds a moderate debuff to their two claw attacks, which is completely insignificant as I see no reason to use these claws at all.

    Stagnate spoils all nonmagical liquids that come near you, which is nice for your Liquid Burrow ability, moderately useful anytime you'd otherwise use ingested poisons, and very annoying for allies most of the time. Especially in dungeons, where maneuverability is low, keeping the party's water supply away from their bog imp is difficult.

    Finally, there's Sink (alliteration, yay!), which all bog imps get a free Ability Focus for. Sadly, it's quite awful.

    Not only does it take several turns for the ability to become effective (1 + target's strength modifier, so it'll only increase as the game processes), it's also kind of weak. Even if the ability prevents the target from taking actions (something implied to not be the case), it's still nothing more than an easily resisted save-or-lose that only works in a handful of terrains.

    All things considered, bog imps (like most of the monsters in this book) are far less viable as PCs than as monsters. +0 is justified, however, given their decent chassis and low-ish RHD.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2018-02-28 at 06:49 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #1459
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Agree with -0. 4 HD of a fairly bad type hurts, and most of the special stuff they get just isnt special enough.

  20. - Top - End - #1460
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I think +0 is good for a tier 3-4 rogue type (swordsage into Telflammar Shadowlord, or something like that--the stats practically beg for Shadow Blade, and wisdom gets a +4 bump as well). It's a real shame that none of the unique abilities are any good, but it's not unplayable. The low base attack is a nuisance, though.

    I think you get sneak attack when attacking from within soil or other opaque burrow-enabled material, which works nicely with the very fast burrow speed.
    Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2018-02-27 at 06:07 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #1461
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    Lightbulb Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    -2 Str, but +10 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +2 Cha = net +20, and mostly in abilities which are good for T3-T4 classes
    Amphibious with a Swim speed
    Burrow 60 ft.
    DR 5/cold iron
    Immunity to Acid, paralysis, poison (... and sleep)
    +4 to saves vs. all Mind-Affecting effects
    +2 to Listen, Spot, and Search
    +8 to Swim and Hide (terms and conditions may apply)
    Two natural attacks (claw/claw)
    6 skill points per HD from a decent list (for a scout / sneak / sniper)

    Is that worth 4 levels? Yes.

    The special attacks suck, but who cares? They're glitter on a bar of solid silver.

    Verdict: LA +1

  22. - Top - End - #1462
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I am really not feeling Stagnate-otherwise, a solid chassis let down by bad typing for RHD and virtually static DCs on the special abilities. Just barely +0, though I could see +1 if the DM was lax on Code of Law in an Aquatic campaign.
    Last edited by ViperMagnum357; 2018-02-27 at 10:45 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #1463
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Put me down for +0, as Fey are workable skillmonkeys, with 6 skill ranks per HD. The d6 HD is dealt with by +4 Con baseline, so you get +2 HP per hit dice to negate the deficiency to Rogues while making actual levels significantly better. +10 to Dex guts the need to invest in Dexterity, as your bonus is so vast you can just ignore the basic +X item entirely and still come out ahead. Quite tellingly, it's a CR 6 monster at 4 HD with no limited use abilities, but monsters are more likely to bring problems for it to the table than PCs.

    It's not actually all that bad for a PC (outside of Stagnate, but that's nothing a Purify Food and Drink or Create Food and Water can't fix, or a party of creatures that don't care about it), because the things you're likely to use it for care a lot less about levels than casters do, and benefit a lot more from the honestly inflated stats. A TWF Ranger could honestly afford the delays on class features for the extra +3 to attack rolls over their full BAB, often landing additional hits in Full Attacks for the bonus. If they go Swift Hunter, well, they have a 60 ft. Burrow speed. Nothing says they can't use it like normal, so anywhere normal Burrow works, they get 60 ft. movement to wreck somebody.

    Yes, losing 4 levels is bad. But for those classes that care less about how many levels you have, the Bog Imp works. Incarnum is questionable, but Initiating is entirely useful with the insane bonus to Dexterity and the fact that virtually every disadvantage the Bog Imp has is massively less important to Initiating.

  24. - Top - End - #1464
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Skillmonkey potential doesn't matter if you don't have the key skills for skillmonkeys. Bog Imps don't have those skills as class skills. Oh, sure, they do have some useful skills, but they're more consistent with a no-spells traditional Ranger, not a classic skillmonkey.


    Most of their special abilities are relatively meaningless.

    Reasonably good ability score spread.


    I'd say they warrant a caution marking. Their Code of Law is a huge wildcard, especially since the requirements to follow vary wildly. If you violate the Code of Law, you loose your immunities and your resistances.
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  25. - Top - End - #1465
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Reading through the Bog Imp entry and came across something that is potentially dysfunctional.

    Bog Imps are not immune to the effects of stagnant water. They are immune to poison, but stagnate water is never called out as a poison (as the immunity relies on a specific game term, it has to be explicitly listed as a poison). They still have to drink, and their own stagnate abillity makes any liquid impotable so they will be Nauseated quite often.

    Another note: the stagnate ability works on any amount of liquid, and any type of liquid. Blood, sweat, saliva, etc... Does swallowing count as drinking the stagnate liquid? It's not implausible to define the term that way. So congratulations, everyone is Nauseated all of the time. Oh, and there's no limit to how long the stagnate effect lasts, so as soon as any liquid comes within 60' it's permanently impotable.

    I'm honestly not sure what these things might do to their LA, but it makes it very annoying to play these things.

    (If anyone can show that I'm wrong here, I'd appreciate it).
    Last edited by 3WhiteFox3; 2018-02-28 at 12:36 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #1466
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    I'm not one to give much credence to ability score bonuses affecting LA when RHD is involved, but in this case, I think it's warranted. The special abilities may not be great, but those stat bumps with a (relatively) low RHD means it's not entirely unplayable. A bog imp maybe not the best option out there, but it's still worth a +0, at least. The immunities and absurd burrowing only help solidify that.

    Edit: Why do they even have a swim speed if all water they touch becomes spoiled and, thus, able to be burrowed through? Are there books that define lakes of magic water somewhere?
    Last edited by Celestia; 2018-02-28 at 12:28 AM.
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  27. - Top - End - #1467
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I'm not one to give much credence to ability score bonuses affecting LA when RHD is involved, but in this case, I think it's warranted. The special abilities may not be great, but those stat bumps with a (relatively) low RHD means it's not entirely unplayable. A bog imp maybe not the best option out there, but it's still worth a +0, at least. The immunities and absurd burrowing only help solidify that.

    Edit: Why do they even have a swim speed if all water they touch becomes spoiled and, thus, able to be burrowed through? Are there books that define lakes of magic water somewhere?
    I guess this way they don't care about Decanters of Endless water and Create Water? Or are those things nonmagical water despite being made by magic?

    I thought about it, and I'm going to go with +0* for the weirdness with Code of Law and the stuff I posted earlier about stagnate.
    Last edited by 3WhiteFox3; 2018-02-28 at 12:43 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #1468
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WhiteFox3 View Post
    I guess this way they don't care about Decanters of Endless water and Create Water? Or are those things nonmagical water despite being made by magic?

    I thought about it, and I'm going to go with +0* for the weirdness with Code of Law and the stuff I posted earlier about stagnate.
    They don't say that the water created is magical, and having that water be magical probably opens up to all sorts of weirdness/abuse, so it would be best to say it's normal water.
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  29. - Top - End - #1469
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    LA changed to +0.

    Code of Law will not cause the Bog Imp to get an asterisk. Having a code of conduct is not inherently problematic, especially not one as mild as the given examples ('don't harm the handful of people you were once related to' isn't exactly difficult unless the DM makes it so).

    Quote Originally Posted by 3WhiteFox3 View Post
    (If anyone can show that I'm wrong here, I'd appreciate it).
    That is... problematic indeed. The first bit is weird but not too deliberating, as bog imps can survive without water for 38 hours (meaning they can drink a lot just before resting and not be nauseated during the day).

    Still, it's definitely something weird. To the dysfunctional rules thread!

    The other interpretation... that'd get them an asterisk easily. It's even worse than you're describing: 'stagnate' literally means 'cease moving', so one could argue that being (near) a bog imp causes your blood circulation to cease, followed by loss of consciousness within a few rounds and irreversible brain damage (intelligence/wisdom/charisma drain, I presume) within a couple of minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Edit: Why do they even have a swim speed if all water they touch becomes spoiled and, thus, able to be burrowed through? Are there books that define lakes of magic water somewhere?
    Mount Celestia has an ocean of holy water I believe, although I guess that's not specifically magical either. Maybe the Forgotten Realms' Moonwells count?
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread III: Now in HD!

    All portals to Mount Celestia lead to Lunia, the lowest layer, which is a plane-sized sea of holy water. I believe the constant moonlight also acts as sunlight to evil creatures harmed by it.

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