Profession Overhaul

[Avianmosquito]

This skill was so ludicrously underpowered it served absolutely zero purpose in-game, so I decided to overhaul it and I'm presenting it here for opinions. I somehow doubt players are going to be using profession for long-term employment, unless they're filling the gap between campaigns. Mostly, this is a way to drum up quick cash through temp work and single shifts. And since I never, EVER use Wealth By Level under ANY circumstances, that's not as far fetched as you might think.

You have the option to look for a single shift, temp work or long-term work. Looking for a single shift takes one day, looking for temp work takes one week, looking for long-term work takes one month with the option to look for part-time only, full-time only or both (roll separately). It has a chance of success based on the economy, your skill and your wisdom. A roll within your profession/wisdom bonus is always in your chosen profession, a roll outside of it never is. When you find an employer, roll 1d20 and add a bonus based on the local economy and your profession to determine your wages at that job (in copper/hour), and roll percentile dice to see how many hours your shift is. At this point, you can either take the job or try again. Additionally, you must make a constitution check after each shift to avoid exhaustion, on a success another save must be made to avoid fatigue, and if you are working long-term you make a wisdom-modified profession check every month to avoid termination. Single shifts pay at the end of the shift, temp work pays at the end of each work week, and long-term jobs also pay on a weekly basis.

Spoiler: Modifiers

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Roaring economy: 20+Proffession+Wis% job search success. Termination DC 0.
Booming economy: 15+Profession+Wis% job search success. Termination DC 5.
Average economy: 10+Profession+Wis% job search success. Termination DC 10.
Recession: 5+Profession+Wis% job search success. Termination DC 15.
Depression: Profession+Wis% job search success. Termination DC 20.

Excellent wages: +25c, +10c per rank of profession
Great wages: +20C, +8c per rank of profession
Good wages: +15c, +6c per rank of profession
Average wages: +10c, +4c per rank of profession
Poor wages: +5c, +2c per rank of profession
Terrible wages: +0c, +0c per rank of profession

Single shift hours:
76-00: 8 hours
51-75: 6 hours
26-50: 4 hours
01-25: 2 hours

Temp work hours:
81-00: 12 hours, 1d6 days/week, 1d6 weeks
61-80: 10 hours, 1d6 days/week, 1d6 weeks
41-60: 8 hours, 1d6 days/week, 1d6 weeks
21-40: 6 hours, 1d6 days/week, 1d6 weeks
01-20: 4 hours, 1d6 days/week, 1d6 weeks

Long-term (full time) work hours:
61-00: 12 hours, 1d4+2 days/week
31-60: 10 hours 1d4+2 days/week
11-20: 8 hours, 1d3+3 days/week
1-10: 6 hours, 1d2+4 days/week

Long-term (part time) work hours:
61-00: 10 hours, 1d2 days/week
31-60: 8 hours 1d3 days/week
11-20: 6 hours, 1d4 days/week
1-10: 4 hours, 1d6 days/week

Fatigue check DC:
Hard manual labour: 10+ shift hours
Average: 10+1/2 shift hours
Desk work: 10+1/4 shift hours

Spoiler: Example Bob

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So, for example, Bob is a 3rd level expert, with 6 ranks in profession: chef, where he works at a local tavern making food as a short-order cook with five 8-hour shifts each week. His work is very average in intensity. He lives in an area with average wages and an average economy overall, and he has average wages for the area. He is paid 5 silver, 2 copper every hour, for a total payment of 20 gold, 8 silver every week. That's far and away less than even the lowliest of adventurers, but cheeseburgers are much less dangerous than zombies.

Bob's job is tiring, however, what with the constant standing and the fair amount of lifting, and Bob must make a constitution check of 14 to avoid exhaustion. Bob is a very typical man with 12 constitution, so he has a 60% chance to leave work exhausted, 24% chance to leave fatigued and 16% chance to leave work in good condition. Either way, since he's exhausted more days than not, he probably spends another hour at the tavern each day as a customer, relaxing until his exhaustion is reduced to fatigue, and then he walks home.

Bob is not self-employed, however, so he does have to worry about termination. Bob's wisdom is decent, at 14, and his 6 ranks in his profession are noteworthy, so he only has a 5% chance of being terminated each month. When he does eventually lose his job, however, he can find another one. Each month unemployed, he will have a 82% chance each month to remain unemployed, a 10% chance of getting a job outside of cooking and an 8% chance to find another cooking job. In the mean time, he can look for temp work and odd jobs to try and fill the time, and if he gets a non-cooking job he can keep looking for a job that better suits him. Even so, losing his job will be devastating, so he tries to avoid it by getting within the owner's good graces (for a +2 circumstance bonus), finding ways to improve his performance at his job (profession boosts), or finding ways to make his performance appear better than it actually is (wisdom boosts).

So, the question is, is this strong enough that player characters would have any reason to use it? Would players be compelled to go find some temp work if the party is guaranteed some down time for whatever reason? Is it enough that players would see it as an acceptable way to drum up some quick cash if they happen to be short at the moment?

[ericgrau]

Ok so... did you figure out how much money Bob makes per month?

Personally I'd ditch profession, perform and any other similar skills I may have forgotten and make them for NPCs and backstories only. As in you might have them without putting in any skill points.

If you want to make it a useful source of income then it has to scale properly, meaning that it roughly doubles every 2 levels. This is difficult to pull off properly because if someone manages to effectively be even 4 levels ahead (a +4 using the old system), that's 4 times then normal income. If it doesn't scale properly then it will either be too much at level 1 or too little later on.

[Avianmosquito]

Ok so... did you figure out how much money Bob makes per month?

He makes 83 gold and 2 silver monthly and 1081 gold and 6 silver annually, assuming he never takes time off. But remember, his expenses likely wipe that out, since he likely lives in a city. Rent (~40g/month), food and ale for his family (~20g/month) and every now and then new clothes, repairs, fees, taxes... He might not even be solvent. He may be in debt right now.

[Vogie]

I could see that an initial profession isn't going to cost a skill point, but trying grow a profession beyond a point or two would. I think that if you want to "overhaul" the professions, you would not focus on downtime, because those are built in to the rules already. You would use those professions as a series of really niche bonuses. The key is Niche. These should be REALLY niche

The list of common professions in the Pathfinder PRD, for example, are: architect, baker, barrister, brewer, butcher, clerk, cook, courtesan, driver, engineer, farmer, fisherman, gambler, gardener, herbalist, innkeeper, librarian, merchant, midwife, miller, miner, porter, sailor, scribe, shepherd, stable master, soldier, tanner, trapper, and woodcutter.

From that, you can tease out various bonuses that are a bit specific to those professions. For example:

• Soldiers could gain an insight bonus against non-soldier attackers in groups, survival checks in areas where they've served in the past, and could even have a secondary profession that would have been part of their service, such as sailor, scribe, stable master, driver, cook or engineer.
• A Cook could gain bonuses against detecting poison in cooked food, create or stretch provisions on the fly, and insight against hungry people.
• A porter has a higher carrying capacity than their strength score, or ignoring movement penalties with a heavy load, and has an advantage on exhaustion checks when walking.
• An architect gains bonuses when perceiving anywhere with buildings, giving a knowledge(Local) bonus when they identify buildings, and have a huge bonus on identifying weaknesses in structures.
• A Shepherd is proficient in staves, has a survival bonus and can more easily identify where water sources would be, have Knowledge(Nature) bonuses in empty fields, and gains animal handling when around livestock specifically.
• Innkeepers gain insight against tired people and those offering shelter, gain an advantage in securing an indoor location from the outside, as well as bonuses to rest & healing while inside.
• Miners and Woodcutters gain proficiencies with axes, have advantage on exhaustion check when working without moving much, and knowledge(nature) checks around large quarry-able stone or woodlands, respectively. In the wild, a miner can find uncut gems on a natural 20 perception check, while woodcutters basically don't need to try to find firewood in wooded areas - they pick it up as a reflex as they travel.

[rferries]

I could see that an initial profession isn't going to cost a skill point, but trying grow a profession beyond a point or two would. I think that if you want to "overhaul" the professions, you would not focus on downtime, because those are built in to the rules already. You would use those professions as a series of really niche bonuses. The key is Niche. These should be REALLY niche

The list of common professions in the Pathfinder PRD, for example, are: architect, baker, barrister, brewer, butcher, clerk, cook, courtesan, driver, engineer, farmer, fisherman, gambler, gardener, herbalist, innkeeper, librarian, merchant, midwife, miller, miner, porter, sailor, scribe, shepherd, stable master, soldier, tanner, trapper, and woodcutter.

From that, you can tease out various bonuses that are a bit specific to those professions. For example:

• Soldiers could gain an insight bonus against non-soldier attackers in groups, survival checks in areas where they've served in the past, and could even have a secondary profession that would have been part of their service, such as sailor, scribe, stable master, driver, cook or engineer.
• A Cook could gain bonuses against detecting poison in cooked food, create or stretch provisions on the fly, and insight against hungry people.
• A porter has a higher carrying capacity than their strength score, or ignoring movement penalties with a heavy load, and has an advantage on exhaustion checks when walking.
• An architect gains bonuses when perceiving anywhere with buildings, giving a knowledge(Local) bonus when they identify buildings, and have a huge bonus on identifying weaknesses in structures.
• A Shepherd is proficient in staves, has a survival bonus and can more easily identify where water sources would be, have Knowledge(Nature) bonuses in empty fields, and gains animal handling when around livestock specifically.
• Innkeepers gain insight against tired people and those offering shelter, gain an advantage in securing an indoor location from the outside, as well as bonuses to rest & healing while inside.
• Miners and Woodcutters gain proficiencies with axes, have advantage on exhaustion check when working without moving much, and knowledge(nature) checks around large quarry-able stone or woodlands, respectively. In the wild, a miner can find uncut gems on a natural 20 perception check, while woodcutters basically don't need to try to find firewood in wooded areas - they pick it up as a reflex as they travel.

Yeah, this seems a good way to go. Nothing wrong with profession checks to make money of course, but I think in most games players are trying to ESCAPE the daily grind and would prefer that the skill have roleplaying or combat utility.

[Shimeran]

Funnily enough, that list reminds me of Zaydos' Tall Tale, perhaps in part because I've been digging into it for inspiration. I do think a fast "quick fix" might be the ability to fake other skills either temporarily or in a more limited scope. Alternately, it could be tapped for "stroke of luck" style tricks like just happening to have a tool of the trade on hand or knowing someone.