Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Before I start, let me say that this is my first serious attempt at a homebrewed class. I'm sure it's not perfectly balanced.

    The hunter is a base class for the Aelsif campaign setting, specialized for hunting supernatural abominations. Hunters are dispatched by many organizations to hunt and kill monstrosities ranging from dire rats to werewolves to yokai. Hunters wear no armour for fear it will keep them from catching their quarry, and use whatever weapon is best suited to slaughter their chosen prey. Hunters pursue prey with great speed, corner them with sadistic cunning and dispatch them with a combination of well-honed skill and bestial ferocity. They use their mobility to avoid damage until they find an opportunity, create an openings and exploit it, ruthlessly cutting their prey apart. They take a visceral satisfaction in the spray of blood, recovering from their own wounds as they inflict wounds on others. The cathartic euphoria of slaughtering a lesser monster is what they live for.

    Hit die:
    D8

    Class skills:
    Climb, Concentration, Craft, Heal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope

    Skill points at 1st level:
    (4 + Int modifier) x4

    Skill points at each additional level:
    4 + Int modifier

    Spoiler: Not a Table: The Hunter
    Show

    Level 1: BAB +1, Fort save +0, Ref save +2, Will save +2, Rally 1d4, Claw, Dodge
    Level 2: BAB +2, Fort save +0, Ref save +3, Will save +3, AC +1, Fast Movement +10
    Level 3: BAB +3, Fort save +1, Ref save +3, Will save +3, Uncanny Dodge
    Level 4: BAB +4, Fort save +1, Ref save +4, Will save +4, AC +2, Run
    Level 5: BAB +5, Fort save +1, Ref save +4, Will save +4, Stun ability
    Level 6: BAB +6, Fort save +2, Ref save +5, Will save +5, AC +3, Rally 2d4
    Level 7: BAB +7, Fort save +2, Ref save +5, Will save +5, Mobility
    Level 8: BAB +8, Fort save +2, Ref save +6, Will save +6, AC +4, Evasion
    Level 9: BAB +9, Fort save +3, Ref save +6, Will save +6, Ghost touch
    Level 10: BAB +10, Fort save +3, Ref save +7, Will save +7, AC +5, Followup ability
    Level 11: BAB +11, Fort save +3, Ref save +7, Will save +7, Rally 3d4
    Level 12: BAB +12, Fort save +4, Ref save +8, Will save +8, AC +6, Fast Movement +20
    Level 13: BAB +13, Fort save +4, Ref save +8, Will save +8, Improved Uncanny Dodge
    Level 14: BAB +14, Fort save +4, Ref save +9, Will save +9, AC +7, Endurance
    Level 15: BAB +15, Fort save +5, Ref save +9, Will save +9, Improved stun ability
    Level 16: BAB +16, Fort save +5, Ref save +10, Will save +10, AC +8, Rally 4d4
    Level 17: BAB +17, Fort save +5, Ref save +10, Will save +10, Fast Movement +30
    Level 18: BAB +18, Fort save +6, Ref save +11, Will save +11, AC +9, Improved Evasion
    Level 19: BAB +19, Fort save +6, Ref save +11, Will save +11, Last Stand
    Level 20: BAB +20, Fort save +6, Ref save +12, Will save +12, AC +10, Improved followup ability


    Weapon and armor proficiency:
    The Hunter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but no armor or shields.

    Claw:
    Hinting at their true nature, the hunter's fingers can thrust into targets like a spear or rip into them like a claw, dealing bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage for the same amount of damage as an ordinary unarmed strike.

    Rally (Su):
    When the hunter damages an opponent, they are reinvigorated by the blood of their prey and recover 1d4 hit points. This increases by 1d4 at 6th level and every 5th level thereafter. This ability only takes effect when attacking an opponent within 5 feet, and is minimized when targeting creatures that do not bleed.

    Dodge:
    The hunter gains Dodge as a bonus feat.

    AC Bonus (Ex):
    The hunter is especially skilled at avoiding attacks, and receives a +1 bonus to AC every even-numbered level when unarmored and unencumbered. This applies against touch attacks and when the hunter is flat-footed, but not when immobilized or helpless.

    Fast movement (Ex):
    At 2nd level the hunter's gains speed in an eagerness to chase down prey, and has their movement speed increased by 10ft/round as long as they are unarmored and unencumbered. This increases to 20ft/round at 12th level and 30ft/round at 17th level.

    Uncanny dodge (Ex):
    Starting at 4th level, a hunter can react to danger before their senses would normally allow them to do so. They retain their Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, they still lose their Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex):
    A hunter of 13th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

    This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking them, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has hunter levels.

    If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

    Evasion (Ex):
    At 8th level and higher, a hunter can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If they make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, they instead take no damage. Evasion can be used only if the hunter is unarmored and unencumbered. A helpless hunter does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Improved evasion (Ex):
    At 18th level a hunter's evasion improves, so that while the hunter still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth they take only half damage on a failed save. A helpless hunter does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Run:
    A hunter of 4th level receives Run as a bonus feat.

    Mobility:
    At 7th level, a hunter receives Mobility as a bonus feat.

    Ghost Touch:
    At 9th level, a hunter's melee attacks all gain the ghost touch property.

    Endurance:
    At 14th level, a hunter receives Endurance as a bonus feat.

    Spring attack:
    At 17th level, a hunter receives Spring Attack as a bonus feat.

    Last stand:
    At 19th level, a hunter receives Last Stand as a bonus feat.*

    Stun ability (Ex):
    At 5th level, a hunter may choose one of four methods to stun targets. These methods are the interrupt, pounce, bait and hunter's claw.

    Interrupt:
    The hunter makes the most out of openings. Once per minute, a hunter's attack of opportunity can be aimed to stun their opponent. If the attack lands, the target must make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 hunter level + hunter's dexterity score or be stunned for 1d4 rounds.

    Pounce:
    The hunter is an ambush predator. When a hunter gets a surprise round, each attack is aimed to stun. If the attack lands, the target must make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 hunter level + hunter's dexterity score or be stunned for 1d4 rounds.

    Bait:
    A good hunter exploits the failures of its prey. When a hunter is subject to an attack of opportunity that misses them, they get to make a free attack in return. If the attack scores a critical hit, the target must make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 hunter level + hunter's dexterity score or be stunned for 1d4 rounds.

    Hunter's claw:
    True to their nature, the hunter uses its claws to leave its prey vulnerable. When a hunter critically hits with their claw, the target must make a fortitude save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 hunter level + hunter's dexterity score or be stunned for 1d4 rounds.

    Improved stun (Ex):
    At 15th level, a hunter's stun ability may receive an upgrade selected from the list below.

    Free interrupt:
    This ability can only be selected by a hunter with interrupt. A hunter's instincts may bring success when conscious planning does not. Any critical hit scored by an attack of opportunity triggers interrupt's stun ability automatically, without using the once per minute allotment. If the once per minute allotment was used and a critical hit was scored, the victim must save twice to avoid the stun. Stuns do not stack.

    Extended pounce:
    This ability can only be selected by a hunter with pounce. An ambush predator does not stop being dangerous when discovered. Opponents who are flatfooted are subject to a pounce's stun, not just opponents in surprise rounds.

    Keen bait:
    This ability can only be selected by a hunter with bait. That which does not kill you has made a tactical error, and the hunter's spite is especially keen. The critical threat range of attacks made with bait is doubled, even if the weapon used is already keen or the hunter has improved critical.

    Keen claw:
    This ability can only be selected by a hunter with hunter's claw. The hunter is aware of their true nature, and has decided to embrace it. The critical range of their claw is doubled, even if the hunter already has improved critical.

    Extended stun:
    Any hunter can select this ability. The hunter creates better, wider openings. Stunning an opponent with interrupt, pounce, bait or hunter's claw stuns for 2d4 rounds.

    Followup ability (Su):
    At 10th level, a hunter may select one of four attacks that has special properties when attacking stunned opponents, whether the stun is the result of a hunter ability or not.

    Followup rally:
    Seeing an opening, the hunter's bloodlust peaks. When striking a stunned opponent, a hunter's rally dice are maximized. If the target does not bleed the dice are not maximized, but are no longer minimized.

    Followup critical:
    The hunter knows how to exploit openings. Any attacks a hunter makes to a stunned opponent have double critical threat range, even if the weapon is already keen or the hunter has improved critical.

    Dispatch undead:
    The hunter's contempt for undead manifests as a disruptive force. When a stunned undead is struck by a hunter, they must make a will save with a DC of 10 + hunter's level + hunter's dexterity modifier or be immediately destroyed.

    Eviscerate:
    There's an old saying that one who fights monsters may become a monster. The truth is that they were a monster all along, and the hunter knows that better than anyone. A hunter may make a special claw attack against stunned opponents aimed to rip out their internal organs. This attack ends all stun effects on the target, and deals 2 constitution damage for every round of stun removed.

    Improved Followup (Su):
    At 20th level, a hunter's followup ability can be improved in one of the following ways.

    Invigorating rally:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the followup rally ability. The hunter is now invigorated by drawing blood for its own pleasure, not just in retribution. If a hunter is at full HP, rally instead adds temporary hit points, up to the total of 8 for each of the hunter's rally dice.

    Bloodless rally:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the followup rally ability. The hunter's sadism no longer relies on blood. Bloodless targets yield the same amount of healing from rally as bleeding ones.

    Vicious criticals:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the followup criticals ability. The hunter's efficiency reaches deadly new heights. A hunter's critical multiplier is doubled against stunned opponents.

    Crippling followup:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the followup criticals ability. The hunter maims their opponent, tilting the fight further in their own favour. Against stunned opponents, a hunter's critical hits deal 2 strength damage if their critical multiplier is x2, 4 strength damage if their multiplier is x3 and 6 strength damage if their multiplier is x4.

    Turning dispatch:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the dispatch undead ability. The hunter's contempt for undead is as bare as their teeth and plain to all around. When an undead creature is dispatched by a hunter's dispatch undead ability, all undead creatures nearby react as if the hunter cast turn undead as a cleric of equal level, with dexterity substituted for charisma.

    Rebuking dispatch:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the dispatch undead ability. When the hunter displays their contempt, other undead are forced to submit. When an undead creature is dispatched by a hunter's dispatch undead ability, all undead creatures nearby react as if the hunter cast rebuke undead as a cleric of equal level, with dexterity substituted for charisma.

    Critical evisceration:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the evisceration ability. Like all people, the hunter is a monster that guides their instincts with cunning. If a hunter's eviscerate scores a critical hit, the constitution damage inflicted is multiplied by their critical damage multiplier.

    Rallying evisceration:
    This ability may only be selected by a hunter with the evisceration ability. A monster's bloodlust is sated best when their claw is on their prey's innards. A hunter eviscerating a target that bleeds is rallied for 10d4 hp, in addition to their normal rally dice.

    *Last stand is a feat that allows a character to remain conscious, but disabled, with negative hitpoints. It does not auto-stabilize (though in the hunter's case, that doesn't matter because they have diehard already), they still only get one action per round and they still take 1 damage whenever they do anything but a move action, just like if they had 0 hp. Requires 13 Constitution, but obviously not when it's a class feature.
    Last edited by Avianmosquito; 2017-08-08 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Why not claw?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    turkey
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Well here is a perfect tier 5 class from our sempai avianmosquito. If you ask me it looks half finnished do you need any help to fix it mosquito chan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    Well here is a perfect tier 5 class from our sempai avianmosquito. If you ask me it looks half finnished do you need any help to fix it mosquito chan?
    Yes, but not from you. I'm trying to balance the class, not break it, and if that class you were rambling non-stop about in a completely unrelated thread was any indication, you think "insta-kill everything absolutely always and full heal self while doing it" is a perfectly balanced class feature. No, right now with this class I started deliberately a bit overpowered and I'm looking at what to cut. It doesn't need 99 attacks for 99d6 and self-healing for 999 per hit.
    Last edited by Avianmosquito; 2017-08-07 at 05:34 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    turkey
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    well is this class have focusing idea behind it like lets say only capable thing to hunt monsters in aesif because it looks like bunch of mandatory feats and single class feature right know. so what is your inspiration mate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    I'm not going to discuss balance, as I have no idea what you are balancing against.

    As for the design itself, it feels a bit bland. They get a lot of passive abilities - Bonus to AC, bonus speed, feats gained, uncanny dodge and evasion are all passive. This doesn't give the player a lot of options to work with in our out of combat, which makes for a pretty boring class IMO

    Personally I like giving classes encounter-based abilities. Let the hunter be able to sense invisible creatures, pierce magical defences and plant ensnaring traps, or something like that. Give the player options, instead of "I attack and then I hope my passive abilities saves me from the retaliation".
    Geyr n Garmr mjk
    fyr Gnipahelli,
    festr mun slitna
    en freki renna
    Now Garm howls loud
    before Gnipahellir
    The fetters will burst,
    and the wolf run free

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alent's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Normally I have a hard time understanding what Khadgar's saying due to the language barrier, but... yeah. This is super T5 in a bad way.

    Problems I see:
    Hit die: d4 is too low for full BAB. It should be D8 as a minimum, especially given Interrupt.

    Saves: Two bad saves and one good saves is an exceptionally odd choice for a base class. Shouldn't there be two good, one bad?

    Class Features: This class has very little identity- Outside of Rally, AC, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Interrupt, it's a bunch of bonus feats that could be collected faster on a Fighter. Rally is cute, AC, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion are stock for a light armored martial class, it's Interrupt that forms the real problem-

    Interrupt feels like it's taking up most of the "balance" of the class in a bad way. (See: Flurry of Misses) It appears to be meant as a mainstay optimization tool, setting up party members to instakill stuff. I usually don't optimize around abilities that use saving throws, so I'm not sure how far that save can be pushed, but it's encouraging optimization of Attacks of Opportunity. (I don't usually build AoO builds- they usually aim for reach then more and more AoOs then Robilar's Gambit, yes? Isn't there a way to get AoOs on archery, too?) Thing is, to get that many attacks of opportunity, you're taking damage, which gets back to that d4 hit die. Those two things are at odds with each other in a bad way, and it feels like you were trying to be cute with making it a do or die ability, but sticking it down at level 5 makes it an ideal dip for anyone with a minion, animal companion or wild cohort. It gives them the HP to survive the risk and then in turn they gain this silly sequence: AoO -> Successful Paralysis -> My pet Coup de Graces him.

    Changes I'd suggest:
    D8 Hit Die, good Will save, and use Pathfinder's Monk and Gunslinger as a reference for coming up with some form of small spell list and a point system limit like Ki/Grit to ration it- Point regeneration could be attached to Rally, if you so desired. Most importantly, make Interrupt use your not-ki-points. Right now that thing is a no downside "use it on every AoO" and in desperate need of a limit, just slapping a stock per diem limit it feels sloppy.

    Those changes will set you solidly in T4 if it remains focused on combat, so make sure to sneak in some out of combat utility spells on the not-ki-points list.

    Edit: Afterthought, if you're hunting supernatural things like Yokai, why do you not have Ghost Touch as a class feature?
    Last edited by Alent; 2017-08-07 at 09:18 AM.
    My Homebrew
    A Return to Exile, a homebrew campaign setting.
    Under Construction: Skills revamp for the Campaign Setting. I need to make a new index thread.



  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    turkey
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    I agree with fire kun currently fighter has more options then your hunter class and we all know your desire to have story/ rp driven games but class still needs more options before even hitting the half baked class part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    It seems right now like the gist of the issue here is the intent of the hunter. The hunter is built as a class for solo adventures, and it's intended to play around high risk, high reward tactics whether it's solo or not. That's why it has self-healing, CC and high mobility all on its own, and why it's so extremely squishy. I've never tried to make a class oriented towards solo play before, and I think that changes a lot of the priorities, but I didn't think the idea of a high risk, high reward class would be so foreign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alent View Post
    Problems I see:
    Hit die: d4 is too low for full BAB. It should be D8 as a minimum, especially given Interrupt.
    Yes, but rally relies on the player character having low HP. It's intended to be a high risk, high reward ability and that simply doesn't work if they have a lot of HP since that does so much to decrease the risk and reducing the reward to match would just make it boring. "Oh, I get 1hp back every time I hit something. Woo."

    Saves: Two bad saves and one good saves is an exceptionally odd choice for a base class. Shouldn't there be two good, one bad?
    I was originally going to have will be strong, but I thought it was a bit much. I can put it back.

    Class Features: This class has very little identity- Outside of Rally, AC, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Interrupt, it's a bunch of bonus feats that could be collected faster on a Fighter. Rally is cute, AC, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion are stock for a light armored martial class, it's Interrupt that forms the real problem-
    It's supposed to be the combination that does it. The player's low HP forces them to avoid taking damage and when they do take damage they have to regain it fast or they die, and the class's main way of regaining HP is to take more risks by getting in close and landing attacks in melee. Interrupt only works if they expose themselves to incoming attacks that could ruin them if they fail, but if they pull if off it can end a fight right there. They can kill things very quickly and avoid damage pretty well, but they are constantly on the precipice of defeat.

    Interrupt feels like it's taking up most of the "balance" of the class in a bad way. (See: Flurry of Misses) It appears to be meant as a mainstay optimization tool, setting up party members to instakill stuff. I usually don't optimize around abilities that use saving throws, so I'm not sure how far that save can be pushed, but it's encouraging optimization of Attacks of Opportunity. (I don't usually build AoO builds- they usually aim for reach then more and more AoOs then Robilar's Gambit, yes? Isn't there a way to get AoOs on archery, too?) Thing is, to get that many attacks of opportunity, you're taking damage, which gets back to that d4 hit die. Those two things are at odds with each other in a bad way, and it feels like you were trying to be cute with making it a do or die ability, but sticking it down at level 5 makes it an ideal dip for anyone with a minion, animal companion or wild cohort. It gives them the HP to survive the risk and then in turn they gain this silly sequence: AoO -> Successful Paralysis -> My pet Coup de Graces him.
    Alright. Then what would you suggest? Perhaps a longer duration stun, instead? That doesn't open to coup de grace and lets the hunter land more hits for more rally. A 1d4 round stun could allow a hunter to get a lot of ordinary hits off, and every hit landed rallies.

    Changes I'd suggest:
    D8 Hit Die, good Will save, and use Pathfinder's Monk and Gunslinger as a reference for coming up with some form of small spell list and a point system limit like Ki/Grit to ration it- Point regeneration could be attached to Rally, if you so desired. Most importantly, make Interrupt use your not-ki-points. Right now that thing is a no downside "use it on every AoO" and in desperate need of a limit, just slapping a stock per diem limit it feels sloppy.
    Okay, the thing is I really hate ki points. Any and every class that uses ki points may as well only have whichever special ability is the strongest, because that's the only one that will ever get used. If you're just as opposed to the idea of a hard daily limit, then perhaps limit it to once per minute?

    Those changes will set you solidly in T4 if it remains focused on combat, so make sure to sneak in some out of combat utility spells on the not-ki-points list.
    I'm not opposed to the idea of giving them some extremely limited spellcasting, but not on a system that encourages the player to pick one ability they know how to use and spam it until they're out of points and immediately die. If they must share a pool with interrupt, perhaps I could just have a list of 8 or so abilities (interrupt included) to choose from every 5th level, but you'd only be able to use each of them once per minute?

    Edit: Afterthought, if you're hunting supernatural things like Yokai, why do you not have Ghost Touch as a class feature?
    Yeah, that's a good idea. I'll look over the ability list and see which one really doesn't need to be there.

    Edit:
    So, most of my ideas seem to revolve around inflicting and exploiting stun. Still, could be interesting. Things like "pounce" (your first successful attack in a surprise round stuns for 1d4 rounds) to inflict a stun and "eviscerate" (make a special claw attack that ends stuns, dealing 2 con damage for each round of stun remaining) to punish the stun. Combos between the "stun" and "punish" abilities could be pretty brutal. I figure you get your stun ability at 5th level, punish at 10th, upgraded stun at 15th and upgraded punish at 20th. There'd be 4 options at 5th and 10th, two ways to upgrade each of them at 15th and 20th.
    Last edited by Avianmosquito; 2017-08-07 at 12:10 PM. Reason: What the hell is wrong with me?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alent's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    It seems right now like the gist of the issue here is the intent of the hunter. The hunter is built as a class for solo adventures, and it's intended to play around high risk, high reward tactics whether it's solo or not. That's why it has self-healing, CC and high mobility all on its own, and why it's so extremely squishy. I've never tried to make a class oriented towards solo play before, and I think that changes a lot of the priorities, but I didn't think the idea of a high risk, high reward class would be so foreign.
    I think the source of the disconnect is that as solo adventures go, you're dipping into Ninja Gaiden territory. 1d4 HD HP is really fragile and everything that fragile in core that's meant to be played has 9ths casting, but the ability set you've given the class is in line with Fighter. It's a very mixed message.

    You double down on this mixed message by saying the class is intended to solo the things that cause saves of the type that the class is bad at, and give no means to compensate for their abilities, and your primary gimmick scales poorly then shuts off against several categories of creatures you'd be sent to hunt. (Undead, plants)

    It has a certain "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" air about it. The character will live or die by their items and luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    Yes, but rally relies on the player character having low HP. It's intended to be a high risk, high reward ability and that simply doesn't work if they have a lot of HP since that does so much to decrease the risk and reducing the reward to match would just make it boring. "Oh, I get 1hp back every time I hit something. Woo."
    Emphasis because my exact reaction to Rally was "Oh, 1d4 HP back every time I hit something, How cute." Consider the following chart:

    Rally Lv 1 Lv 2 Lv 3 Lv 4 Lv 5 Lv 6 Lv 7 Lv 8 Lv 9 Lv 10 Lv 11 Lv 12 Lv 13 Lv 14 Lv 15 Lv 16 Lv 17 Lv 18 Lv 19 Lv 20
    HD + 3 con 1d4+3 (5) 2d4+6 (11) 3d4+9 (16) 4d4+12 (22) 5d4+15 (27) 6d4+18 (33) 7d4+21 (38) 8d4+24 (44) 9d4+27 (49) 10d4+30 (55) 11d4+33 (60) 12d4+36 (65) 13d4+39 (71) 14d4+42 (76) 15d4+45 (81) 16d4+48 (87) 17d4+51 (92) 18d4+54 (97) 19d4+57 (101) 20d4+60 (107)
    single weapon 1d4 (2) 1d4 (2) 1d4 (2) 1d4 (2) 1d4 (2) 2d4 (5/10) 2d4 (5/10) 2d4 (5/10) 2d4 (5/10) 2d4 (5/10) 3d4 (7/14/21) 3d4 (7/14/21) 3d4 (7/14/21) 3d4 (7/14/21) 3d4 (7/14/21) 4d4 (10/20/30/40) 4d4 (10/20/30/40) 4d4 (10/20/30/40) 4d4 (10/20/30/40) 4d4 (10/20/30/40)

    The thing I'm noticing here is that Rally will, on average heal somewhere between 1/8 and a under 1/2 of your HP per turn depending on level, and that's assuming that you don't bump your con up with magic items when possible, and that every single attack you make hits. While TWF will aid in the healing, I question if this is the desired outcome. I'd need to see it in action against creatures, but my own play experience makes me suspect that it will keep you capped off until suddenly it gets massively leapfrogged. (In fact, I favor abilities like this to minimize risk in MMOs)

    Here's a thought, since you're hunting Supernatural things that should do ability/level damage, instead of trying to flirt with one hit knockouts, why not make an ability inspired by the Crusader's Damage pool, but for ability damage? Start small, scale large to encourage single classing, then pair that with an ability that lets you use downtime to treat ability damage, diseases, etc. with folk remedies to crank up the flavor and mechanical focus.

    You can keep the flirt with doom aspect of things using a D8 for HP, and making Rally into a stronger on use ability rather than a passive. The high risk/high reward comes in from attacking when at risk, rather "having no HP to gamble". (There's a few psychology tricks at play here, mostly stemming from the illusion of choice. An active ability will always be perceived more like a risk and payoff than a passive ability doing the same thing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    Alright. Then what would you suggest? Perhaps a longer duration stun, instead? That doesn't open to coup de grace and lets the hunter land more hits for more rally. A 1d4 round stun like that of soundburst could allow a hunter to get a lot of ordinary hits off, and every hit landed rallies.
    It's not the ability itself that's flawed, it's just being able to attempt it AoO times/round with no limit. that was part of why I suggested ki points, it provides a flexible limit that doesn't put people into per diem rationing mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    Okay, the thing is I really hate ki points. Any and every class that uses ki points may as well only have whichever special ability is the strongest, because that's the only one that will ever get used. ... I'm not opposed to the idea of giving them some extremely limited spellcasting, but not on a system that encourages the player to pick one ability they know how to use and spam it until they're out of points and immediately die.
    So.. this is a matter of applicability and player habit, and not an actual problem with Ki points. There should be no "Strongest" ki point ability, only abilities most applicable to the moment. If Expeditious Retreat is useful for closing the distance or getting away from scary things, it gets used. If making something hit incorporeal spirits is most important, that's where your ki points go. If you're taking a lot of low damage hits, BarkStoneskin is suddenly your most useful buff. If a player is silly and only wants to use a single power he considers best, he does so at his own loss. (This sort of silly player problem isn't exclusive to ki points, either, Vancian magic suffers it, too.)

    That said, when building ki point abilities, there are a few things I consider good guidelines:
    1) No directly damaging abilities. These encourage players to spam that one ability regardless of if it's actually applicable or not. Things indirect are questionable- damage bonuses should be the last thing considered.
    2) Interaction with class features. Ki Points should have ways to be used outside of their not-a-spell-list.
    3) Attempt for an ability list that supports your intended roles. Given the intended "solo" nature, I would expect to see a wide variety of selfish support powers from healing (This would be an interesting place to stick an on-use version of Rally) to travel to specialty creature hunting skills like aforementioned Ghost Touch.


    Edit: Been on the road and working on this off and on, just saw your edit. Will address it later.
    Last edited by Alent; 2017-08-07 at 04:03 PM.
    My Homebrew
    A Return to Exile, a homebrew campaign setting.
    Under Construction: Skills revamp for the Campaign Setting. I need to make a new index thread.



  10. - Top - End - #10
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    New version is up. I think it's a bit strong at the moment, but we'll work from there.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    turkey
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Looks like nothing changed more mandatory feats to fix class without identity. Can you answer this mosquito kun is there any series books or games inspire you to make this class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


  12. - Top - End - #12
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    Looks like nothing changed more mandatory feats to fix class without identity. Can you answer this mosquito kun is there any series books or games inspire you to make this class.
    "It can't instakill a tarrasque, therefore it sucks." -Khadgar567

    You thought a class that dealt 448d6 damage was perfectly balanced. I am not going to humor you. You are now the first person ever added to my ignore list because you can't take a hint.
    Last edited by Avianmosquito; 2017-08-08 at 12:52 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    turkey
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    "It can't instakill a tarrasque, therefore it sucks." -Khadgar567

    You thought a class that dealt 448d6 damage was perfectly balanced. I am not going to humor you. You are now the first person ever added to my ignore list because you can't take a hint.
    Hey i didnt say it was balanced hell i need to made the class more balanced then i first writen
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    Threads are like cats. They go where they want, and never listen to what you want them to do.


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    "It can't instakill a tarrasque, therefore it sucks." -Khadgar567

    You thought a class that dealt 448d6 damage was perfectly balanced. I am not going to humor you. You are now the first person ever added to my ignore list because you can't take a hint.
    He was mine, too...sometimes makes a good point, but there's just so little punctuation or regard for legibility >.>.

    I haven't played 3.5 for more than 5 hours total, so I can't comment on exact balance. Glad to see it's not too frail (d4 hit die on a melee fighter is concerning), and that level 1 ability is so flavorful and juicy...like, I'd give that to a 5e class in a heartbeat, although it'd probably have to wait until later in the class's progression due to edition differences. For this class, it's exactly what a single-player campaign needs to keep the PC alive. And the options are cool - dunno how high of a tier this class is (my guess is leaning to 4, honestly - not a lot of abilities outside of murdering things that bleed), but I can feel the innate savagery in every ability, so I probably wouldn't care.

    Could you bold the headings for the follow-up and stun lists? I missed the first follow-up four or five times because it wasn't underlined or otherwise demarcated, and the extra size would make them easier to find.
    Cookie Count: One

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    Spoiler: True Facts
    Show

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPuffin View Post
    I haven't played 3.5 for more than 5 hours total, so I can't comment on exact balance. Glad to see it's not too frail (d4 hit die on a melee fighter is concerning), and that level 1 ability is so flavorful and juicy...like, I'd give that to a 5e class in a heartbeat, although it'd probably have to wait until later in the class's progression due to edition differences. For this class, it's exactly what a single-player campaign needs to keep the PC alive. And the options are cool - dunno how high of a tier this class is (my guess is leaning to 4, honestly - not a lot of abilities outside of murdering things that bleed), but I can feel the innate savagery in every ability, so I probably wouldn't care.
    I take that as a compliment. The class is indeed meant to feel like that. I guess if it ever sees use outside Aelsif the alignment restrictions given will probably not be flattering.

    Could you bold the headings for the follow-up and stun lists? I missed the first follow-up four or five times because it wasn't underlined or otherwise demarcated, and the extra size would make them easier to find.
    There you go.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Avianmosquito View Post
    I take that as a compliment. The class is indeed meant to feel like that. I guess if it ever sees use outside Aelsif the alignment restrictions given will probably not be flattering.
    I'd bloody hope not - screw alignment restrictions, man .

    There you go.
    Thanks.
    Cookie Count: One

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    Spoiler: True Facts
    Show

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Banned
     
    HalflingRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Hunter (Aelsif base class)

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPuffin View Post
    I'd bloody hope not - screw alignment restrictions, man .
    I don't use alignments at all, but it's pretty clear to me that this class's enormous sadistic streak would have it restricted to "any evil" or at least "any non-good".

    Of course, I disagree with that assessment since many are protecting people, or at least think they are, without expecting compensation and because they enjoy doing so (way too much). They're a lot like paladins, just far more honest about it. They both enjoy inflicting ultraviolence upon perceived evils, and for most hunters the targets of said ultraviolence are genuine threats to people and more lives are saved by the hunter than are taken. The phrasing is just "I enjoy killing monsters" instead of "I am satisfied by the eradication of evil".

    On the other hand, to their prey they must be damned terrifying.
    Last edited by Avianmosquito; 2017-08-08 at 07:34 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •