Worse Treatment as GM's SO?

[Kesnit]

We've all heard the stories of the GM's SO getting preferential treatment. But is the reverse supposed to be the norm? Is the GM's SO supposed to be treated worse than the other players?

My wife has decided to run another Changeling: the Lost game. Our other players are new to nWoD, though they are familiar with oWoD. I do know CtL, and since it is my wife's favorite system, I've played in several of her games. That is how I know I get second-class treatment - because other players have told my wife that she treats me worse, and my wife admits that she does.

Since I know the system and the other players don't, I told my wife it would probably be best if I built my character prior to game so I could help the others build. She agreed at the time. I have several character concepts that I've never gotten the chance to put into play, so after she told me the setting, I pulled out the one I thought would work and put a tentative build together in my mind. (No dots on a sheet, just character type, abilities, skills, and some ideas on powers.) After thinking about it for about 2 days and talking to my wife, I realized that this particular concept would not work for the setting she created, so I put that idea back on the shelf.

My wife has often berated me for building backwards - deciding where I want my character to go and what I want him to be able to do, then picking the character type and abilities that would allow me to do it. She's challenged me to randomly roll for character type (in this case, Seeming) and build from there. I decided this would be a good time to take her up on that challenge, so rolled 2 d6's (since I had already planned to dual kith). I came up with Orge and Elemental, and went to work developing a character with that combo. It took about a day, but I found a combo that I liked and a concept that would work. I spent part of yesterday developing my ideas, and e-mailed my wife some questions to make sure what I was thinking would work in her world. She was OK with my concept, and I went so far as to lay out dots on the sheet.

When I got home, however, she proceeded to tell me I should wait until everyone else has built their characters so I can be sure my character will fit in with theirs. (I will admit that my concept is limited to a certain extent, and if the other players aren't interested in his specialty, it would likely never come up.) I said my character could still do his thing in downtimes, and she said she did not expect there to be any downtime.

During the discussion, I brought up that another player has already expressed interest in playing the healer. She answered, "I can't think of any scenario when a healer would not be useful to the party." I told her I could - if the party decides to play social PCs who prefer to talk things out, and call for help from the combat NPCs when necessary. Her answer was "but he could still do his stuff in downtime." At which point I reminded her she said there would not be downtime.

Later, she was berating me for making her put NPCs in her game that would allow my PC to join the Entitlement (like prestige class) that I want to go into. I asked her what she would do if, after playing 6 months, a different player found an Entitlement she wanted that required approval from an existing member. "I'd add that Entitlement to an NPC, or make a new NPC." I asked why she saw no problem with adding NPCs for the other PCs, but not for mine.

I finally just agreed to put some general concepts together and, once everyone else has built, pull out whatever concept fits best and throw dots on a sheet. (As she pointed out to me this morning, I am good at coming up with backstories for whatever I build, so I will be able to flesh out the dots into a person.) But that is not what I want to do, and even doing that is no guarantee that my PC will actually ever be useful.


This is not the first time I've run into issues like this. In a previous game, I built a PC with a detailed backstory who was a combat character who made other characters better at whatever they were doing. The backstory never came into play (although the backstories for other PCs did), I never got plot hooks directed at my PC (although others did), and my specific powers were almost never useful. This is the game when the other players called my wife out for the way she was treating me.

I've played with other groups, using nWoD and other RPG systems, and almost never run into problems like this. The ones running the games have found ways to get all the PCs involved, even when we didn't specifically build them to work together. (I've even been in games where PC concepts are complete opposites, but the GM has found ways to get them to work together.)


Should I just expect this kind of treatment, so everyone can be sure she isn't favoring me? My wife is good at running games, and I enjoy them for the most part. It's just frustrating to always be left out and told "no."

[weckar]

It genuinely sounds like you're being GM-bullied. By your wife. Sucks to say, but in your position - if it were anyone but your wife - I'd say the best move is not to play.

[Jay R]

It seems like either what you generally want to play doesn't match what she generally wants to run, or the real problem has nothing to do with the game. Either way, people who don't know the two of you can't help.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

The best Significant Others know us best, are most comfortable with us, have no trouble expressing their true feelings with us - so of course there's a risk we're going to get harshest treatment from them.
There's no social barrier to saying "No, I don't want you to do that," or conversely "I want you to do this."

[Pex]

Maybe she's overcompensating. She knows the problem of DMs favoring their SOs, so to prove she's not doing that she overdoes it by disfavoring for fear that anytime she approves your idea she would be accused of favoritism.

[Knaight]

Reverse favoritism is extremely common - both because of overcorrection in intentionally avoiding favoritism and because of social dynamics where it's much easier to be more cut throat in competitive games with people you know well.

[gkathellar]

Reverse favoritism is extremely common - both because of overcorrection in intentionally avoiding favoritism and because of social dynamics where it's much easier to be more cut throat in competitive games with people you know well.

This is my interpretation, too. It's funny, but we're often more comfortable pushing around people we're closer to, because we understand their tolerances. It's not something you should hold against your wife - it's a hard thing to correct for in a new social situation with new parameters.

[Hackulator]

My only advice would be that this is a really bad place to come for marriage counseling.

[Nifft]

Reverse favoritism is extremely common - both because of overcorrection in intentionally avoiding favoritism and because of social dynamics where it's much easier to be more cut throat in competitive games with people you know well.

I came here to say this.

I've been guilty of disfavoring friends specifically because I was afraid of appearing to overly favor them.

You should talk to her about it.

[Arbane]

My only advice would be that this is a really bad place to come for marriage counseling.

I came here to tell the story of a GM I know who had her husband's PC tortured into a split-personality as part of our party's level-zero backstory, but I'm just going to agree to the above statement.

[Anxe]

The other suggestions seem valid.

It could also be that she doesn't want you to give her extra work. Making content as a GM is an enjoyable task, but it can also be a bit of a chore. She could be more willing to do that chore for other people as a hostess, but feel that you are burdening her when you ask for an Entitlement NPC. It's a little silly in this context, but she might be subconsciously thinking, "Can't you make your own Entitlement NPC?" in the same way that someone you live with might think, "Can't you do your own laundry?"

It's likely that this is a combination of different factors.

[RazorChain]

I'm just going to say that I do horrible things to my PC's during my games but I dont have to answer to them when I get home :)

[Mr Beer]

This is not a game issue. This is a spouse issue. Talk to her.

EDIT

BTW I notice you say 'berating' a lot. I don't let people berate me on a regular basis, I suggest you adopt that policy. Being someone's spouse is not a license to run your mouth at them in a disrespectful manner.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

My only advice would be that this is a really bad place to come for marriage counseling.

Unless you want to hear which cleric spell you'd need to fix it.

[Honest Tiefling]

Unless you want to hear which cleric spell you'd need to fix it.

I feel like this could also be a bard spell, given their focus on diplomacy...

Anyway. I am actually going to suggest that you don't play with your wife. Some marriages don't require both parties to be present at all activities, she should be able to run a game without you. So sit her down and tell her that you are aware of the issue of favoring one's Cuddle Provider, but that she is literally making it impossible to make a character. If she really wants you there, she needs to address this behavior and stop it before play starts. If she doesn't address it...It's probably better for the marriage that you don't have this game together and get into fights over a game you have invested in.

[dps]

Your wife is clearly cheating on you with all the other players in games she DMs. Time to get yourself a good divorce lawyer. That is to say, a competent divorce lawyer--there is of course no such thing as a Good lawyer.

And you should probably have a doctor check you for STDs, too. No telling what she might have caught and passed on to you.

[Vknight]

Well not sure what too say about this and more.

[Sajiri]

I had an issue in my very first game of D&D, I told my husband I wanted to learn to play it (he'd played in groups plenty of times before), so he got a group together. He wouldnt give me a lot of help or special treatment when it came to making my character, berated me a little bit for my choice since I was being a bit of a special snowflake with the character I wanted to make, said he wouldnt run a solo adventure for me since if he was going to DM he wanted to do it for a group...but then turned right around and made an overpowered cleric character for one of the other players who asked, was happy to run a solo game for him to help him get into it, and so on. I wasnt happy. Thats why nowadays we have single player games just for the two of us when we arent in groups so we can have fun and not have to deal with other people.

I would say, like others have, that it may be she is just going to far in the 'I dont want to appear to favour my SO' mindset. I've had the same thing happen to me with some friends. It's not a bad mindset exactly, they are thinking of the other players and want to keep things fair, but it hasnt worked out so well. Assuming that is the case and it is not any kind of relationship issue between you both (since this is not the place for help with that I suppose), if she's your wife then it should be fairly easy to sit down and talk to her about it.

[Nifft]

One more potential cause occurs to me.

Maybe she doesn't feel secure in her authority as a DM.

I've seen DMs "lash out" when they feel undercut, and that feeling isn't necessarily rooted in reality.

Talk to her (per all the advice in this thread) and see if there's a way you can support her authority as a DM without the abuse. Some ideas:

- Have an in-character / out-of-character signal, so you can conflict with NPCs and the world in-character, then shift to o-o-c and support her decisions.

- Be a DM's helper. Look stuff up for her. Run secondary NPCs with her. Your character may suffer a loss of spotlight, but YOU will be better engaged.

[Kesnit]

I am sorry for not getting back to everyone before now. I've been meaning to, but the past week has been crazy.

It seems like either what you generally want to play doesn't match what she generally wants to run, or the real problem has nothing to do with the game. Either way, people who don't know the two of you can't help.

She has no problem with characters I build, so long as they aren't PCs for her games.

Maybe she's overcompensating. She knows the problem of DMs favoring their SOs, so to prove she's not doing that she overdoes it by disfavoring for fear that anytime she approves your idea she would be accused of favoritism.

Reverse favoritism is extremely common - both because of overcorrection in intentionally avoiding favoritism and because of social dynamics where it's much easier to be more cut throat in competitive games with people you know well.

I spoke to my wife about this, and she admits that this is a big part of the way she was reacting.

I came here to say this.

I've been guilty of disfavoring friends specifically because I was afraid of appearing to overly favor them.

You should talk to her about it.

We talked about it over the course of several days. (The decision we came to is below)

It could also be that she doesn't want you to give her extra work. Making content as a GM is an enjoyable task, but it can also be a bit of a chore. She could be more willing to do that chore for other people as a hostess, but feel that you are burdening her when you ask for an Entitlement NPC. It's a little silly in this context, but she might be subconsciously thinking, "Can't you make your own Entitlement NPC?" in the same way that someone you live with might think, "Can't you do your own laundry?"

Except I can't make NPCs. Or rather, I would happily create an NPC to add to her game, if that's what it took to get the Entitlement I wanted, but that would give me too much OOC knowledge.

BTW I notice you say 'berating' a lot. I don't let people berate me on a regular basis, I suggest you adopt that policy. Being someone's spouse is not a license to run your mouth at them in a disrespectful manner.

I'm not sure "berate" is the right word. When I wrote my original post, I was upset and angry. My wife is not crazy about the way I build PCs, and this is something she and I have discussed at length over the years.

So sit her down and tell her that you are aware of the issue of favoring one's Cuddle Provider, but that she is literally making it impossible to make a character. If she really wants you there, she needs to address this behavior and stop it before play starts. If she doesn't address it...It's probably better for the marriage that you don't have this game together and get into fights over a game you have invested in.

I fear that may be a decision we have to come to. Or it may only pertain to Changling: the Lost games (which is her favorite system), but other games would be fine. (She's run D&D games that I've played in and we haven't had these problems.)

Your wife is clearly cheating on you with all the other players in games she DMs. Time to get yourself a good divorce lawyer. That is to say, a competent divorce lawyer--there is of course no such thing as a Good lawyer.

I'm a lawyer, and did a lot of divorce work at my last job. (Now I only do criminal defense.)

I had an issue in my very first game of D&D, I told my husband I wanted to learn to play it (he'd played in groups plenty of times before), so he got a group together. He wouldnt give me a lot of help or special treatment when it came to making my character, berated me a little bit for my choice since I was being a bit of a special snowflake with the character I wanted to make, said he wouldnt run a solo adventure for me since if he was going to DM he wanted to do it for a group...but then turned right around and made an overpowered cleric character for one of the other players who asked, was happy to run a solo game for him to help him get into it, and so on. I wasnt happy. Thats why nowadays we have single player games just for the two of us when we arent in groups so we can have fun and not have to deal with other people.

I would say, like others have, that it may be she is just going to far in the 'I dont want to appear to favour my SO' mindset. I've had the same thing happen to me with some friends. It's not a bad mindset exactly, they are thinking of the other players and want to keep things fair, but it hasnt worked out so well. Assuming that is the case and it is not any kind of relationship issue between you both (since this is not the place for help with that I suppose), if she's your wife then it should be fairly easy to sit down and talk to her about it.

It is reassuring to know it isn't just me. :)

One more potential cause occurs to me.

Maybe she doesn't feel secure in her authority as a DM.

I've seen DMs "lash out" when they feel undercut, and that feeling isn't necessarily rooted in reality.

You may be onto something here. As I said, Changling is her favorite system, and she is very protective (for lack of a better word) of it. She also knows I like to get as much power out of my PCs as I can. (As I said, I tend to decide where I want to go, then build towards it.)



So anyway...

My wife has decided against running the Changling game. I did not encourage that, and actually tried to talk her into still running. After thinking about it some more, I decided I would rather run C:tL rather than the 3.5 game I was running. So now I get to make all the characters I want, however I want! All joking aside, this works out for all of us. I enjoy running WoD, and she loves playing. She can build whatever she wants for my game because I can run with anything. I had all the players randomly roll for Seeming and Kith, and we will do character creation next time we play. (The other players are new to nWoD, though familiar with oWoD, and we thought it would be overwhelming to have the players go through all the kiths and try to pick one.)

[Nifft]

Marriage healthy, game fun.

Crisis averted.

Kudos.

[Hackulator]

Glad it worked out.

Unless you want to hear which cleric spell you'd need to fix it.

For a married man that would be like asking your goddess for a spell to help you deal with problems you are having with your goddess.