epic and monster levels

[slexlollar89]

i was perusing through deitys and demigods and i saw that almost all the gods have 20 or so outsider HD, and 20-40 class levels. i was wondering, 1) if you have 25 monster HD, do you have to use epic rule for saves, BAB etc. 2) if you have 1-20 monster HD and then proceed to level 21 by way of class HD, do you then use epic rules with the first class HD? Epic levels are confusing, but i really need to know this for my campaign im going to run

[Jasdoif]

Once you get past 20 hit dice (ie, you pick up the 21st), whether those hit dice are racial or from class levels, you start on the epic attack and save progressions. All future HD likewise continue with the epic progressions.

[AtomicKitKat]

I seem to remember monster Racial HD not suffering from the Epic limit(1/2 BAB and 1/2 Saves) till their first class level.

Anyway, the main reason they have 20 Outsider HD is so they have the best BAB/Saves/Skills before Epic. Apart from the fact that most of them are indeed Outsiders.

Edit: They do count towards whether you qualify for Epic Feats(21 HD in any combination of Race/Class HD works), but you always count your Racial HD first when you are calculating base BAB/Saves(and if you have more than 20 RHD, their BAB/Saves don't get the Epic treatment).

[slexlollar89]

so 21+ RHD do not get epic profgression until first class HD?

[Arbitrarity]

Yep. Look carefully at the Tarrasque. It's got something like +48 BAB, and that many HD.

[slexlollar89]

thanx guys, now i can continue with the ardduous task of statting my divine pantheon