LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

[Dire Moose]

That has confused me too. I was actually comfortable as a guy for most of my life, but I developed a strange desire to also be female starting at puberty. I just thought of it as a fantasy for the longest time and didn’t think I could be trans because of my lack of dysphoria over being male. I had assumed that all trans people had to automatically know they were trans from childhood.

It has been a slow ongoing process of self-discovery for me. I suppose that most binary trans people likely experience dysphoria, but I don’t in the same way. As I’m genderfluid, it’s not really a sense of discomfort over my male gender and more a sense of also wanting to be female. Dunno if that makes sense at all

[-Sentinel-]

Dunno if that makes sense at all

It's gender. It doesn't have to make sense.

Anyway thanks for the answer, it's very enlightening.

[137beth]

There's also something which is sometimes called "gender euphoria," where someone can feel really good about a particular gender presentation. It's a common phenomenon among trans folks who don't experience dysphoria (and among some trans folks who do).

[sneakykitten]

I have dysphoria and experience euphoria when presenting the right way. Unfortunately my life as a transgender girl sucks so, so much that... the dysphoria is very strong. Anyways, when I look right, I feel right. I just... must be very binary feminine, because I am strongly repulsed by maleness in myself. It's terrible that I am so binary because it inhibits me from getting to know ppls more comfortable not having modern conveniences to beauty themselves up.

[Delta]

That has confused me too. I was actually comfortable as a guy for most of my life, but I developed a strange desire to also be female starting at puberty. I just thought of it as a fantasy for the longest time and didn’t think I could be trans because of my lack of dysphoria over being male. I had assumed that all trans people had to automatically know they were trans from childhood.

It has been a slow ongoing process of self-discovery for me. I suppose that most binary trans people likely experience dysphoria, but I don’t in the same way. As I’m genderfluid, it’s not really a sense of discomfort over my male gender and more a sense of also wanting to be female. Dunno if that makes sense at all

I think I can agree to most of that for myself. I don't know if I'd call myself trans because I have no issue whatsoever with the bits and pieces I was assigned at birth, yet if you gave me a 1/day spellcasting power, I guess being able to change my body from male to female and back would be way up my list. So I guess I have some kind of desire to experience being female, yet wouldn't want to get rid of my current skin either (I guess I compensate for some of that by playing lots of female characters in RPG...), I'm not really that deep into lots of the labels so I don't know if trans is the correct term for that, especially since I'd feel cheap and "intruding" into an area I don't really belong in considering the horrible stuph my trans friends have gone through in their lives, so I like to just stick with "really open-minded about pretty much everything regarding sex and gender" and leave it at that.

[AliceLost]

Quick note, that's... sorta dehumanizing to call somebody just by their identity? I mean, if I was to call somebody a gay or a black, that sounds pretty bad.

Seconded. I get to call me "a gay", but other people don't.

It seems like more thought should be given to why A didn't tell B. Disclosing that you're trans is a very personal issue that should only be done when the trans person in question is comfortable with it, so I'm not happy suggesting that she should have told B earlier, but a year is a long time to be in a relationship with someone without feeling that comfortable. Also, as was mentioned, has she told many people that she's trans who didn't already know or figure it out from context? I know for some trans people who don't uproot their life there's some natural carryover of people who have known them, and perhaps even as a consequence of having so many people in their lives already who know, it's even more desirable for them to have other relationships with people who don't see them that way.

In any case, it seems like B is mostly upset over the why of why she didn't tell him, and that's something only she can explain to him.

[JNAProductions]

I'll echo what Delta is saying. I'm perfectly fine with my various bits and pieces, but I would definitely enjoy (or at least want to try) a few days on the other side. The way I've put it in the past is that I'm just not particularly attached to my gender-that is to say, while I'm fine being who I am, if I woke up tomorrow with a different sex on my body, I'd just shrug and go on with my life, without much changing. There's not much of my identity that's focused around my gender.

[Stuebi]

Seconded. I get to call me "a gay", but other people don't.

It seems like more thought should be given to why A didn't tell B. Disclosing that you're trans is a very personal issue that should only be done when the trans person in question is comfortable with it, so I'm not happy suggesting that she should have told B earlier, but a year is a long time to be in a relationship with someone without feeling that comfortable. Also, as was mentioned, has she told many people that she's trans who didn't already know or figure it out from context? I know for some trans people who don't uproot their life there's some natural carryover of people who have known them, and perhaps even as a consequence of having so many people in their lives already who know, it's even more desirable for them to have other relationships with people who don't see them that way.

In any case, it seems like B is mostly upset over the why of why she didn't tell him, and that's something only she can explain to him.

Just as an Update here, they are back together again after a talk, and so far it seems fine.

And what you wrote is also the reason I was insecure about giving advice to the two at first. I'm very much a "You should be direct and honest in a relationship." kind of person, on the other hand disclosing something such as this is a special case, as you say.

The problem here, and this is what I ended up saying to A, it's very much her choice wether she tells her boyfriend, or not. Or how much time she takes. But she then also has to deal with the fact that her SO might feel bad about not being told, and end the relationship. And this would be a case where I would say that neither is in the wrong.

But then, I'm the kind of guy that tends to drop the whole truckload on day 1. Better for my partner to know right away that she's about to start dating the Grinch's slightly less hairy brother.

[War_lord]

I am also of the school of thought that it's best to let the other person know about any potential deal breakers as early as appropriate. I wouldn't want to spend a year getting close to someone only to have things fall apart because (hypothetically, as I'm a dude who's obviously a dude) the contents of my pants aren't what they're expecting. I get the urge to hide that stuff to keep a good thing going, but in the end you're just delaying the possible hurt when it eventually gets out. And if it was me I wouldn't blame the other person for feeling a bit betrayed.

[Delta]

I'm in the "early, but not necessarily day 1" camp. There might be quite a few potential partners for which "trans" might be a deal-breaker if they don't know anything, but if they already know and like you, they might be more open to give it a shot and let their opinion be changed.

[sneakykitten]

No relationship partner has a right to know I am trans. They can figure it out or spend the rest of their lives wondering. My medical history is none of their biz. It's not an STI. So like, they should know eventually I guess? Yet I'm not hurrying to tell them.

[Kesnit]

I learned recently that not all trans people have experienced gender dysphoria.

Which surprised me a lot, because I used to think that discomfort with your gender assigned at birth was pretty much a defining element of transgenderism.

If you are trans but have never been dysphoric, what made you realize you were trans?

I don't know if I had dysphoria. I do know that I hated wearing skirts when I was young, and was happy when winter rolled around and I could wear pants to church. (That was about the only time I had to wear skirts.) I also know my mother and I went back and forth a great deal about my wardrobe, because I hate pink and feminine cuts of clothing, and once I moved out, ended up wearing men's clothes a lot.

And yet, I didn't feel like a man stuck in a woman's body. I was a butch lesbian (not "hard butch," just rather masculine), and that worked well for me. I got called "sir" frequently when I went out, but just laughed it off.

Eventually, I met a woman I eventually found out is a transwoman. She told me about how she felt prior to transition. As she did, I realized I had felt the same things for years; I just hadn't thought much of it because I thought it fell under being a masculine lesbian.

There's also something which is sometimes called "gender euphoria," where someone can feel really good about a particular gender presentation. It's a common phenomenon among trans folks who don't experience dysphoria (and among some trans folks who do).

This is what finally convinced me that I am a transman. The first time I bound down and actually attempted to present as male, I almost cried from joy when I looked in the mirror. For the first time, the reflection looked "right."

[halfeye]

No relationship partner has a right to know I am trans. They can figure it out or spend the rest of their lives wondering. My medical history is none of their biz. It's not an STI. So like, they should know eventually I guess? Yet I'm not hurrying to tell them.

Do you believe they have a right to know you are sterile, assuming you are?

[sneakykitten]

Yes only if potential children are a concern of our relationship.

[Recherché]

I mean I have a phobia about pregnancy (well childbirth to be exact) and I will never willingly give birth. At what point am I required to explain this? First date? One month in?

[Delta]

I mean I have a phobia about pregnancy (well childbirth to be exact) and I will never willingly give birth. At what point am I required to explain this? First date? One month in?

At the point where you think "Hm, this is turning into something long-term I could imagine being with this person for a long time" because I feel that's something the other partner has a right to know before making that decision.

[CWater]

Tbf, it's pretty general relationship advice, that ALL (trans and cis, gay and straight, couples and poly networks, etc.) whose relationship is starting to become serious should discuss some important life choices (and limitations) with their SO(s). Like whether they would possibly get married at some point (some people really don't want to, others can be very adamant that they need to), if they want kids (even if it is biologically and psychologically possible, some people just don't want to be parents), do they have big career ambitions and what might that mean, ect.

If the couple's (or more) plans and wishes are compatible, awesome! If not, then they should discuss if anyone is willing to adjust, as early as possible in my opinion, before investing too much future hope on a specific person(s). If it doesn't work out then that is sad and breaking up is painful to be sure, but setting up the possibilities of big disappointments and arguments in the future is worse imo.

Of course, people don't always know or may not have decided this or that yet, so immediately demanding answers is not fair either.

[sneakykitten]

I don't feel that some ppls who wanna discuss these things are actually interested in honest answers. They wanna hear a specific answer or else you're out of the relationship. Being a trans girl wrecked almost all my relationships, being barren wrecked them too. So you know excuse me if I am tired of explaining my deepest secrets to ppls who should wanna stay together if they really love me even if I couldn't help them have kids or am trans or I don't wanna get married right away or....

[Comrade]

I don't feel that some ppls who wanna discuss these things are actually interested in honest answers. They wanna hear a specific answer or else you're out of the relationship.

Well, yeah, they want to hear a specific answer-- people would generally prefer their partners' long-term goals be compatible with their own-- that doesn't mean they don't want an honest answer. It also doesn't mean that said honest answer will result in a breakup. Deal-breakers can become surprisingly malleable when you've been in a relationship with somebody and grown to consider them part of your life.

And if being transgender is a dealbreaker with somebody... do you really want to be with such a person anyway?

So you know excuse me if I am tired of explaining my deepest secrets to ppls who should wanna stay together if they really love me even if I couldn't help them have kids or am trans or I don't wanna get married right away or....

I'm afraid it's not really up to you to decide whether or not somebody should want to stay with you.

[sneakykitten]

Well, yeah, they want to hear a specific answer-- people would generally prefer their partners' long-term goals be compatible with their own-- that doesn't mean they don't want an honest answer. It also doesn't mean that said honest answer will result in a breakup. Deal-breakers can become surprisingly malleable when you've been in a relationship with somebody and grown to consider them part of your life.

And if being transgender is a dealbreaker with somebody... do you really want to be with such a person anyway?

Deal breakers mean the deal is broken and they wanna... break up usually in my relationships. There are no second chances, there are not renegotiation boundaries. Nothing but breakups. And yes I would I'll just pretend to be a woman born woman.

I'm afraid it's not really up to you to decide whether or not somebody should want to stay with you.

No, it's not. Sad sighs....

[Telonius]

Ugh, you have my sympathy on that. I really can't imagine what would motivate a person to leave just because someone is barren. (The fact that I was adopted as an infant probably has a lot to do with that). Whether or not you ever decide to tell anybody is completely up to you. I'd just suggest that, while yes, there are a lot of people who really can't handle it; there are also people who you can trust enough to tell, and who won't freak out over it.

For your own viewpoint on it, I'd really, really suggest that you don't think of it in terms of pretending. When you approach a relationship - any relationship - from a place of deceit, it's not going to end well. It's a fact about you that you get to decide whether or not to tell, and they're not entitled to that information. No one's business but your own, along with anybody you choose to tell.

[Icewraith]

Ugh, you have my sympathy on that. I really can't imagine what would motivate a person to leave just because someone is barren. (The fact that I was adopted as an infant probably has a lot to do with that). Whether or not you ever decide to tell anybody is completely up to you. I'd just suggest that, while yes, there are a lot of people who really can't handle it; there are also people who you can trust enough to tell, and who won't freak out over it.

For your own viewpoint on it, I'd really, really suggest that you don't think of it in terms of pretending. When you approach a relationship - any relationship - from a place of deceit, it's not going to end well. It's a fact about you that you get to decide whether or not to tell, and they're not entitled to that information. No one's business but your own, along with anybody you choose to tell.

You really should find out the other person’s views on kids (yes/no) and adoption (yes/no) quickly to avoid wasting each other’s time if there’s a big disconnect.

If you can’t have kids you don’t need to say why, but “having your own kids” is important for some people. Long term relationships fail either because the people are incompatible or the futures are incompatible. Compatible people with incompatible futures usually results in a messy, painful break up.

Speaking as someone who ended up in the “having your own kids is important” category and whose partner turned out to be infertile, if that fact had been knowingly concealed from me at the start of the relationship, that level of betrayal would have instantaneously and utterly destroyed the relationship once it came to light. We barely survived as is.

Deceit at the start of a relationship is like using a cheat code in some games-you get to play for a bit, but you only get the bad ending.

[sneakykitten]

Ugh, you have my sympathy on that. I really can't imagine what would motivate a person to leave just because someone is barren. (The fact that I was adopted as an infant probably has a lot to do with that). Whether or not you ever decide to tell anybody is completely up to you. I'd just suggest that, while yes, there are a lot of people who really can't handle it; there are also people who you can trust enough to tell, and who won't freak out over it.

For your own viewpoint on it, I'd really, really suggest that you don't think of it in terms of pretending. When you approach a relationship - any relationship - from a place of deceit, it's not going to end well. It's a fact about you that you get to decide whether or not to tell, and they're not entitled to that information. No one's business but your own, along with anybody you choose to tell.

Thank you. I did wanna have my own kids a lot yet I can't so I got to live with it. And I largely agree with your stance. It's no one's absolute right to know. Even if they get their feelings hurt. They're not gonna hurt me if I make them slightly upset by concealing something to protect myself are they? I doubt it if they're as committed to being decent peoples as like everyone claims in my v-very morals/chivalry oriented 'ships.

I just dunno about the cheat code analogy. It seems flawed because you're not really cheating. You're protecting yourself from questionable behaviors after a messy breakup. Some partners get super creepy if you don't tell them everything right away. So I dunno I feel like keeping some necessary secrets to have a mutually fulfilling relationships is not that bad. Is it?

I guess when it comes to the end of it ppls shall feel sad and stuffs. Everyone gets over it. I know I have.

[Delta]

Thank you. I did wanna have my own kids a lot yet I can't so I got to live with it. And I largely agree with your stance. It's no one's absolute right to know. Even if they get their feelings hurt. They're not gonna hurt me if I make them slightly upset by concealing something to protect myself are they? I doubt it if they're as committed to being decent peoples as like everyone claims in my v-very morals/chivalry oriented 'ships.

I'm sorry but I kind of have to disagree with you there. A person very much has the right to know whether the person they want to spend the rest of their life with can have children or not, this is kind of a really huge thing, lying about that is completely wrong, sorry.

Some people really want to have children, and that is their right and nothing they should be blamed for.

[sneakykitten]

I wanted to and I can't where's my pity party?

[Delta]

I'm sorry, but no one has the right to lie to their partner about something as essential as that.

And I feel it's kind of weird having to point this out, do you really want to be the reason for your partner's life being miserable down the road when they find out they'll never have the kids they always wanted? I'd never want to do that to anyone.

[sneakykitten]

No, I don't. And I never said it was my right I said it was for them not hurting me, which is way different. Yet no one cares I am barren so whatevs ppls.

[Eldest]

Okay, guys, at some point bringing up that you're not able to have kids, when the relationship turns serious, reasonable thing to bring up. Meanwhile, if you want kids that badly that it is a make-or-break thing in your relationship, why the boop didn't you bring it up first? Why is the burden on me to disclose I can't?

[sneakykitten]

Yes, why ever must the person who is unable to do so have to tell their partner, rather than their partner volunteering that they wanna have kids first? Kids can be used to trap a girl in a 'ship. Once you got kids then your partner may wanna be a permanent part of your life. So digression aside: Once your partner wanna have kids they should say it so I can say, 'no' and we can get on with our lives. Even though I wish dearly I could still have kids.

[CWater]

I think that is very fair, it goes for both partners to disclose what their important plans for the future are. You shouldn't make the assumption that everyone could/would want to have kids, so a person that really wants that kind of family should voice those hopes to their partner early as well.

Sorting this stuff out doesn't need to even start with a big serious discussion, one could just begin by making some subtle comments, just to test the waters on how your partner reacts to your plans.

Also, it is really sad how living as theirself means transpeople will generally have to give up the chance of having offspring. (Or they must have them pre-transition, which is not ideal for many reasons, and not even an option for a lot of people. ) However, while it is not yet possible, I have hope that one day technology advances far enough that transpeople will be able to have children as their own gender.