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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default The Dervish (dual wielding fighter archetype)

    Most people will agree that dual wielding in D&D 5e is in general a suboptimal choice. It has niche uses for classes like the Rogue and Bladesinger, but not so much for other combatants. So, I wanted to see if it would be possible to build a flavorful and useful archetype around dual wielding for everyone's dependable worhorse, the Fighter class. I originally wanted to name this the Tempest (like the 3.5e prestige class) but that's taken for the Cleric now, so I went with the Dervish theme and added a bit of a dance flavor to it. Check it out and let me know what you think!

    The Dervish (Fighter Archetype)

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: The Dervish (dual wielding fighter archetype)

    If you were converting from 3.5e I like where you went with it. There are a few things I see that are a bit strange, but I can understand that since most of what made the Dervish so great isn't as special anymore: like moving in between attacks. Anyone can do that now if they have enough attacks. Lol

    Here are some things I see that pop out to me:

    Dervish Dance:
    Twin Strike: I am a bit confused. Aren't you dealing damage with both weapons anyway?
    Wall of Blades: Someone could continuously use this ability over and over again, and AC bonus is a big thing in 5e. I suggest dropping it to +1 AC. That way it isn't a something that is easily abused.

    Unyielding Fury: Since you are using the fighter for the archetype, who already has extra attacks, this ability gives them ANOTHER attack on top of that. You could probably have this ability akin to the Barbarian's rage, where they get advantage on all attack rolls.

    All-in-all, I like it! Just a few rough edges to file down. You can probably add bonus to speed just to give a bit of mobility (not the feat) like they had back in 3.5.
    Last edited by Nykolo; 2017-09-07 at 02:58 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Dervish (dual wielding fighter archetype)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolo View Post
    If you were converting from 3.5e I like where you went with it. There are a few things I see that are a bit strange, but I can understand that since most of what made the Dervish so great isn't as special anymore: like how the fighter can move in between attacks like the Dervish Dance allowed. Anyone can do that now if they have enough attacks. Lol

    Here are some things I see that pop out to me:

    Dervish Dance:
    Twin Strike: I am a bit confused. Aren't you dealing damage with both weapons anyway?
    Wall of Blades: Someone could continuously use this ability over and over again, and AC bonus is a big thing in 5e. I suggest dropping it to +1 AC, or have the Dervish Dance ability all together be used after a short or long rest.

    Unyielding Fury: Since you are using the fighter for the archetype, who already has extra attacks, this ability gives them ANOTHER attack on top of that. You could probably have this ability akin to the Barbarian's rage, where they get advantage on all attack rolls.

    All-in-all, I like it! Just a few rough edges to file down. You can probably add bonus to speed just to give a bit of mobility (not the feat) like they had back in 3.5.
    Thanks for the feedback! Yeah the old Dervish was basically shoring up weaknesses of TWF in 3.5e, this is doing the same for 5e =P.

    Some responses:

    - It may not have been clear, but the Dervish Dance maneuvers can only be used three times per short rest (similar to Knight and Samurai UA archetypes). So you can't really spam them all that much (specifically thinking of Wall of Blades).
    - Also, the Dervish Dance maneuver only apply to your bonus action (off-hand weapon attack). Hence Twin Strike basically lets you add both weapon damages to the bonus action attack.
    - Unyielding Fury: That's a fair point. My goal was to provide a capstone that makes TWF fighting more useful, given the extra attack. Straight up advantage is nice but it doesn't really differentiate two weapon fighting. Another possibility is basically allowing unlimited use of Dervish Dance, so you always have a rider for the bonus action. At 18th level that's powerful but not necessarily OP (e.g. 18th level wizard can spam unlimited shield)
    - Speed bonus makes sense. Will take a look into where that might fit in...

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: The Dervish (dual wielding fighter archetype)

    - It may not have been clear, but the Dervish Dance maneuvers can only be used three times per short rest (similar to Knight and Samurai UA archetypes). So you can't really spam them all that much (specifically thinking of Wall of Blades).
    Yeah, I saw when I took another look. My bad. Lol

    - Also, the Dervish Dance maneuver only apply to your bonus action (off-hand weapon attack). Hence Twin Strike basically lets you add both weapon damages to the bonus action attack.
    Ah, I see. So you are basically dealing three attacks worth of damage. That's alright, since the Hunter Ranger with Colossus Slayer gets a 1d8 when it deals weapon damage against a creature below its max hit points. Which is most of the time in combat. So Twin Strike won't be an OP ability, because the most a Dervish might deal is a 1d8 (Longsword, Battleaxe, Morningstar, and Flail) if he chooses the Dual-Wield feat. Powerful, yes. But I don't see it being broken.

    - Unyielding Fury: That's a fair point. My goal was to provide a capstone that makes TWF fighting more useful, given the extra attack. Straight up advantage is nice but it doesn't really differentiate two weapon fighting. Another possibility is basically allowing unlimited use of Dervish Dance, so you always have a rider for the bonus action. At 18th level that's powerful but not necessarily OP (e.g. 18th level wizard can spam unlimited shield)
    Yeah, TWF in 5e is nice, but it is a bit of a sacrifice (not nearly as bad as it was in 3.5e in my opinion. ). Unlimited use of Dervish Dance at 18th isn't too bad. I can see it working.

    - Speed bonus makes sense. Will take a look into where that might fit in...
    You can use it as a 3rd level ability. Most secondary abilities you get at the beginning of an archetype give you more utility stuff anyway.

    All in all. Just a few things to tweak. I miss the Dervish, and so I might actually take this archetype in one of my games.

    By the way. If you would like to, feel free to review my Eldar race from Warhammer 40k. I just uploaded it yesterday and have yet to get any reviews.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-5e-conversion
    Last edited by Nykolo; 2017-09-07 at 09:26 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Dervish (dual wielding fighter archetype)

    Ok, made some tweaks. Added 10 ft speed bonus at level 3 (and split up the abilities into Dual Wield Mastery--combat--and Dervish Dance--speed + performing). Also changed the level 18 ability to unlimited use of Dual Wield Mastery which is more versatile and flavorful than just an extra attack.

    Thanks for your feedback, and I'll make sure to take a look at your Eldar conversion (also a WH40k fan!)

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