LGBTAI+ #59: Will You Take This Woman To Be Your Galpal?

[Talakeal]

Well, for context, I'm nonbinary, and I am generally very gender-neutral-looking without any effort on my part, I do not generally tell people about my gender identity unless asked, and I generally don't care what even my family thinks of my gender identity. On the other hand, plenty of nonbinary people do not look androgynous, and this can cause issues for them even when they tell people because some people don't believe being nonbinary is a real thing or assume all nonbinary people look androgynous. But for me, because of both the way I look, and the way I choose to present myself, my transition was, by most metrics, easy. Doesn't make me not trans, at least to my knowledge.

Basically, you would not be "disrespecting" anyone by the simple act of being trans. Not being actively discriminated against for being trans does not make your gender less real, regardless of what gender you pass as or whether you tell people or not. Your experiences might be different, but that wouldn't change the nature of your gender. Plus, everyone (or at least the vast majority of people) who has "lived that life", has had a point where they had not "lived that life". And whether you decide to live that life or not, what you feel inside still matters.

As for "trans and in denial", my personal experience has boiled down to "what would make me happier?". Or in this case, what would make you happier? What feels right to you? There are all kinds of ways that people transition, and ways they experience that. None of them are "improper". EDIT: Specifically, if your doubts about being trans stem primarily from how you think other people would feel about you or whether or not you'd be doing things "properly", those doubts are probably not evidence that you're not trans, at least looking at it with my logic.

Not everyone's situation is like mine. In retrospect, I definitely experienced dysphoria for a long time without the slightest understanding of what it was, and my dysphoria was different from my friend's in a lot of ways - she knew from a pretty young age that there were some very specific parts of her she hated, and knew what she wanted instead. Mine was more like...a sort of dark cloud. I couldn't point to the source, but everything felt underwater, my emotions, my reactions to the world. And it got a little darker every day, until I began to wonder if light were even real.

And if your situation is like mine...well, that is living that life. It's not discrimination, it's not virulent hatred from reactionaries, it's just a quiet, persistent suffering, a listlessness. There were happy times, or at least times that seemed happy in comparison to the rest, but at least for me it was a shallow half-life wracked by imposter syndrome, persistent depressive episodes, and constant self-sabotage.

Ok, so first off, I want to say that I am only talking about myself here.

I feel that I would be happier as a cis-woman, but less happy as a transwoman, and I think it would make the psychological issues Blade of Obliviom mentioned worse.

I personally don't feel like I could ever pass as a biosex woman, I went through puberty as a male and currently look like a cross between Boromir and Silent Bob; I feel like any attempt to transition would draw attention to my maleness rather than hide it.

If they came out with some miraculous new technology that could physiologically transform me into a biosex female, I would do it and never look back, but I think I would still feel like a faker and live in fear of being found out.

For example, in college (about 15 years ago now) I presented myself as female to my online friends in an MMO. To this day, I have nightmares about them finding out that I was only pretending to be a woman.

I am not sure why I feel this way, it is probably due to how harshly my parents reacted to gender "transgressions" when I was a child. But that's where I am at.

[Anymage]

Question: if I could stuff you into a gendertransmogrifier machine that would make you completely indistinguishable from a cis woman, down to the ovaries and the chromosomes, but the woman you came out had an awkward frame that was nowhere near being conventionally feminine, would you still go for it? Because a lot of cis chicks do have issues where they don't come across as properly feminine.

If your ideal is a certain type of woman and you just like to explore genderspace, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. (In fact, personally speaking, I think that "exploring genderspace" as a broad concept can often be handier that trying to either give every individual patch a name, or trying to find which name that someone somewhere made up is the proper one for you. You're allowed to explore.) And if you'd be content as the dumpy gal because that would still let you be a woman, you're allowed to experiment with presentation at your own pace and comfort level.

[Talakeal]

Question: if I could stuff you into a gendertransmogrifier machine that would make you completely indistinguishable from a cis woman, down to the ovaries and the chromosomes, but the woman you came out had an awkward frame that was nowhere near being conventionally feminine, would you still go for it? Because a lot of cis chicks do have issues where they don't come across as properly feminine.

If your ideal is a certain type of woman and you just like to explore genderspace, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. (In fact, personally speaking, I think that "exploring genderspace" as a broad concept can often be handier that trying to either give every individual patch a name, or trying to find which name that someone somewhere made up is the proper one for you. You're allowed to explore.) And if you'd be content as the dumpy gal because that would still let you be a woman, you're allowed to experiment with presentation at your own pace and comfort level.

Absolutely, yes. I would probably take steps to make myself look more feminine afterwards, up to and including cosmetic surgery, but I would do it regardless.

[Anymage]

Surgeries and therapies can do a lot to make trans women look more feminine, as I'm sure many people in this thread can give clear before and after evidence of.

Honestly, though. If you've been having these feelings for long enough that your parents gave you grief for exploring gender play as a kid, that's definitely worth talking with a gender therapist about. Doubly so if they messed you up with shame about it. We can quibble over whether you're considered "trans" when you start having the feelings that your birth sex doesn't quite fit, or only after you're living your day-to-day life as your preferred gender. (Hot take: I prefer the latter, because I like words to have clear and specific meanings.) Anyone who tries to gatekeep you over semantics is being ****ty, and I fully encourage you explore your femininity both on your own and with a therapist. Either you find a happier path to life as a woman or you find out that the reality isn't quite what you'd hope, but either way you're ahead. There's no reason not to, and no harm being done to anybody by exploring.

[137beth]

For what it's worth Talakeal, I have been taking estradiol for over a year now, but at a low enough dose that I can still hide my breasts without needing binders. I have not socially transitioned or told more than a few people that I am taking E or that I'm not a man, but it has had an enormous positive impact on my mood already. Depending on what aspects of "being a woman" you want, it's possible you could do something like that without having to worry about passing. But I'd second everyone else who recommended talking to a therapist about it.

[genderlich]

Anyone have ideas for a butch bride's wedding outfit? I don't want to wear a dress but I also don't want to wear, like, a pantsuit, or a vest.

[BisectedBrioche]

So, the last few days have been busy...but I've really been noticing the results of HRT over the last 2 years and 8 months (I'm sure you can guess the specifics without violating forum rules...), and the gender euphoria is unreal!

[Dire Moose]

I’m happy things are going so well for you.

[AdAstra]

Congrats on the marriage and HRT results, you two! Not really well-versed in fashion of any kind, so sorry to say I can’t contribute much on that front, though the whimsical side of me says flowy dress with long jacket on top, plus cape.

[137beth]

Not sure if anyone here cares, but long-running webcomic Slightly Damned just confirmed that a major character is genderfluid (they've hinted at it for awhile but this is the first clear confirmation). And, congratulations Genderlich and Bisected!

[DarthArminius]

I still haven't grown the balls to come out. Maybe I could come out after this Pandemic is finally over. This forking sucks.

[Mith]

I still haven't grown the balls to come out. Maybe I could come out after this Pandemic is finally over. This forking sucks.

My general policy is that caution is generally warranted. When you feel like you are safe enough to come out, you can do so. There is no reason to beat yourself up in the meantime.

[Wizard_Lizard]

My general policy is that caution is generally warranted. When you feel like you are safe enough to come out, you can do so. There is no reason to beat yourself up in the meantime.

Kinda like how I’m out to one group of friends that’s clearly lgbt friendly, but to my other group of friends who I’m sure will accept me and whatever, but like.. less sure.

[DarthArminius]

Kinda like how I’m out to one group of friends that’s clearly lgbt friendly, but to my other group of friends who I’m sure will accept me and whatever, but like.. less sure.

I am terrified of coming out. This sucks so much. I am not afraid of violence, so much as I am ostracization.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I am terrified of coming out. This sucks so much. I am not afraid of violence, so much as I am ostracization.

Yeah I get that. It’s completely fair, and you are valid even if you don’t come out.. ever. Hopefully you find some people who will accept you.
Like, for me, the group of friends I’m not out to, I’m not so scared of that, I just don’t want them to treat me.. like.. differently. But like, with the other group, they pretty much know me as non binary and almost always have, they”re much newer friends than the first group, Who have known me since primary school.

[BisectedBrioche]

Trans thing #5346437: Getting your eyeliner complimented by a customer at work, and spending the rest of the day wondering if that's something a cis woman would say to any woman, or if she just saw you as a bloke wearing makeup.

[Unavenger]

Trans thing #5346437: Getting your eyeliner complimented by a customer at work, and spending the rest of the day wondering if that's something a cis woman would say to any woman, or if she just saw you as a bloke wearing makeup.

I'm pretty sure that's something that a cis woman would say to any woman, because I'm pretty sure my female friends have had their eyeliner complimented more than once in my presence before.

[BisectedBrioche]

Yeah...I guess I'm just insecure.

In more unambiguously good news, I just had a phone call with the endro. No progesterone, but they're upping my oestrogen! =3

[DarthArminius]

If there's anyone who has suffered from conversion therapy, could someone PM me ? I have some memories I've been repressing, I need some advice on how to deal with this problem.

[Xihirli]

I've finally met up with my partner after being separated for months by germs.

[LaZodiac]

So, one of the side effects of my hormones and stuff is that it makes me nauseous. I don't FEEL nauseous, but more and more evidence is mounting up that no, no I am nauseous when on this medicine and I just don't know what it feels like to not be nauseous.

Anyone got any tips? I'd like to stop vomiting at the drop of my hat please. It's making it hard to be alive.

[137beth]

I haven't noticed any nausea from HRT, but nausea is a side-effect I have noticed of other medicine I've been taking for almost 20 years, so maybe I just don't notice it anymore?

In any event, I take my other medicine with a lot of food, and that helps me. (Although, if the hormone medicine making you nauseous is synthroid, which can't be taken with food, then that won't help, but I'm guessing given what thread you're on that you mean something else).

[LaZodiac]

I haven't noticed any nausea from HRT, but nausea is a side-effect I have noticed of other medicine I've been taking for almost 20 years, so maybe I just don't notice it anymore?

In any event, I take my other medicine with a lot of food, and that helps me. (Although, if the hormone medicine making you nauseous is synthroid, which can't be taken with food, then that won't help, but I'm guessing given what thread you're on that you mean something else).

Yeah I take my meds with food, and can do so. Spiro and Estradiol, if curious.

[137beth]

Well, that's unfortunate. I also take spiro and estradiol, and like I said I don't notice any nausea from them, but it could just be because I'm used to it from other medicine. (I take spiro twice a day, once without food (alongside levothyroxine), and once with food). In any event it's definitely something you should ask your doctor about.

[JusticeZero]

I had horrible reactions to spiro. No nausea, but some people might? I switched to injections twice a week, and dropped the antiandrogens. I still have to take vitamins to keep my testosterone levels from going too low.

Currently frustrated. My closest friends online now are trans girls, and they are voice averse. Having a hard time filling an online game that I realized I NEEDED voice for. Quarantine leaves me voice starved.

For me, too much text RP and my ears start ringing in ways I associate with dysphoria; I spent lots of time in online text RP in the closet—both figurative and literal—in silence.

My FIRST and highest priority in transition was my voice. I know not everyone does, but for me, the first time I realized I didn't have to pretend to be a guy, I started practicing my voice. Led to amusing situations when I would get stuck in girl voice and start confusing people, then after a while, it stuck. Suddenly, I could use voice chat again.

Sadly, people I want to play with flee when they hear about the voice part. Makes me feel a bit cut off from people I like to interact with.

I don't want to go calling out for random cis folk to enter my place of safety of one other T-girl and a few supportive folk who know me. The closest so far is the one that's almost certainly trying not to hurt my feelings, as the game is pretty much 180° opposite of what she plays. Hmph. I sensed some awkwardness, too. I can appreciate it being not her thing.

I feel like this is cutting me apart from people, and it's bugging me. Is this just going to be a thing where I have to learn how to find the super secret cis girl network because my community isn't there for me? I don't know where to even start looking for the safe hideouts there.

I already have two cis guys there, and it's already too easy for them to start powering through planning. They don't try to, they just do. I don't want to add even more of that, especially after I was basically run out of my last game I was a player in by a loud and impulsive cis guy making everything I was trying to do irrelevant. I'm way too meek for that, stereotypical as it might be.

[BisectedBrioche]

Well, it's been 4 weeks and no letter about my increase in dosage. RIP me, I guess.

[137beth]

@JusticeZero
I don't have any advice for you, but do you have any recommendations for how to start voice training?

[Mystic Muse]

@JusticeZero
I don't have any advice for you, but do you have any recommendations for how to start voice training?

https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgen...ining_regimen/

This has been shared with me. I need to actually start on it.

I am getting an epilator in the mail tomorrow. Would it be best to buzz everything I plan on epilating tonight?

I got the Braun S9-E890 because it sounded really good, and I found a new one on sale.

[BladeofObliviom]

https://www.reddit.com/r/transvoice/comments/d3clhe/ls_voice_training_guide_level_1_for_mtf/

I used this one when I got started on voice training in February, though I haven't referenced it in some time; I had an easier time of it than many people seem to and past about the six week mark most of what I've done has been building muscle memory. My voice is pretty good now, though. I recently had a health insurance call center rep quietly go "I'm getting a <legal name>? ...That can't be right." after I gave him my medical record number to look me up.


On the subject of epilation, I would definitely recommend buzzing whatever you intend to epilate fairly short before you start. 3-5mm is the usual recommended length, but definitely under a centimeter and more left than a clean shave. And, uh, brace yourself. It can hurt quite a bit the first time, depending on location, though gets much less painful on repeat application.

[Ranger Mattos]

@JusticeZero
I don't have any advice for you, but do you have any recommendations for how to start voice training?

From a quick glance over the previous two posts, the resources linked seem solid. The Voice Pitch Analyzer app is pretty good, and remember to record yourself and listen back to review how you sound. (Disclaimer: I haven't put much effort into voice training myself. Here and there and have made noticeable improvement, but still get misgendered over it all the time)

Also, another collection of tips pasted from elsewhere:

Spoiler

Show

- RAISING PITCH ISN'T AS IMPORTANT AS IT SEEMS. Feminizing your resonance and acoustic assumptions are far more effective in sounding femme.
- Singing helps
- Elevate don't constrict voice when raising pitch
- Smiling helps (accoustic assumptions - vowels)
- Touch don't Push with vocal tension (e.g. tongue on top of mouth for 'ng' sounds)
- Should always feel comfortable and maintainable
- Resonance: where does your voice 'go' when you say things -- chest (masculine), throat (neutral), teeth (feminine)
- Resonance: 'mmmmm' hum helps set (feel side of nose), this is why "Mmmm, meeeee, meeeeet meeee" exercise helps set both pitch and resonance.
- Take your time -- if you want to move pitch up it's better to do a comfortable raise and slowly increase range than go 'breathy' to force it (risks damaging throat, breathy also ****s up resonance bad)
- Practice regularly -- if you only do voice work for 10 minutes a day and use male voice everywhere else it's harder to teach your brain 'this is how we speak now'
- Even if it's just 25% of your practice time, try to move your standard voice in a feminine direction so that you learn "this is just how I speak now"
- It will take around 2-3 months of training for it to become "permeant", just don't give up. Work in small Htz increments.
- Pretend you're speaking to a child (not in what you say but how you say it)
-If you can: slow down. Take your time speaking. This lets you have spare brain power to check your voice
speaking quickly also 'constricts' your pitch variance a bit (only matters if you're a motormouth like me though)

So, one of the side effects of my hormones and stuff is that it makes me nauseous. I don't FEEL nauseous, but more and more evidence is mounting up that no, no I am nauseous when on this medicine and I just don't know what it feels like to not be nauseous.

Anyone got any tips? I'd like to stop vomiting at the drop of my hat please. It's making it hard to be alive.

I know this is a bit old so maybe you've already had the chance to bring it up with your doctor, but definitely do so if you haven't yet. I can only imagine that it's either your hormone levels are screwed up, or a side effect of spiro.