LGBTAI+ #59: Will You Take This Woman To Be Your Galpal?

[Themrys]

They're still horrible people who should be avoided when possible and not taken as a serious source on anything. But they're more like religious moral bullies who try to bludgeon you with a cause (heavily influenced by their own tastes and spin, natch) than sexual bullies who try to badger you out of being such a prude.

They could still bully a sensitive person with low self esteem into submitting to sex she (or in rarer cases he) doesn't want, so I judge them harshly. (How many teenagers have sex to "get rid of virginity" because their peers have made them feel like they have to? And that's without anyone even explicitly saying it.)

Besides, I don't think they'll abstain from using the same tactics on a person they are attracted to, if they happen to not be that person's type.


Men raping lesbians because they are "morally" offended by lesbianism is a thing, after all. That's not a "you rejected me, personally" thing, but a "you rejected the group of people I belong to" thing.


I mean, I don't know of any cases of violent rape where the reason for the rejection was anything but maleness, but I find it hard to imagine that someone would make such a difference between what he expects for others of his group and what he expects for himself.

So "I think you are a horrible person for not being attracted to short men in general, but it is perfectly fine for you to reject me because I'm not tall enough for your taste" ... not something I think likely happens.

A reaction like "Wow, you just said no because I'm short, you are such a mean meanypants" is much more likely. (In fact, I once got a mild version of that when the guy was, actually, rather too tall for my liking, but unattractive to me for entirely different reasons. It was the thing he was insecure about ... for whatever reason.)


Now, I am pretty resilient when it comes to that sort of bullying, so nothing happened, but I shudder to think what the effect might have been on a more easily influenced, younger person who doesn't want to be considered a mean meanypants, or worse, a horrible person.

[Rydiro]

Just say you are bi,...

Thats the thing to say.
If you are actively looking for a relationship, it might be useful to think about your flirting preferances. And talk to good friends about them. You never know if they know someone...
Actively reaching out works like a miracle.

[The Fury]

Thats the thing to say.
If you are actively looking for a relationship, it might be useful to think about your flirting preferances. And talk to good friends about them. You never know if they know someone...
Actively reaching out works like a miracle.

Flirting is kind of hard for me to tell the truth. On my best day when I'm feeling my most confident, I still worry that I don't even sound like a real person. It doesn't help that I tend when I'm drawn to someone, it's usually because their voice, their eyes, or their sense of humor. So any flirting "preference" for me is more like just encouraging them to keep talking.

Even though I feel like I've turned a corner with my mental health, and I am getting better, I'm still not sure if I'm relationship material. I've felt like I might be too badly broken to ever love or be loved for years now. It's really only recently that I'm starting to internalize the idea that I might deserve to be happy. So I'm honestly not sure that I'm ready for a romantic partnership yet.

[Rydiro]

Even though I feel like I've turned a corner with my mental health, and I am getting better, I'm still not sure if I'm relationship material. I've felt like I might be too badly broken to ever love or be loved for years now. It's really only recently that I'm starting to internalize the idea that I might deserve to be happy. So I'm honestly not sure that I'm ready for a romantic partnership yet.

Then you are probably not ready ... yet.
Anyway, once you are doing fine by yourself, getting into and maintaining a relationship both takes effort. Since you have to offer the other person something.

[LaZodiac]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

[DataNinja]

I don't feel like it's a bad way to feel - you just want to be seen as you, not with a caveat of "oh, you're trans." Given that, the way things are today, that will almost certainly cause at least a significant fraction of people to fixate on that. So you end up being judged in part as a category, not a person. Which is very much something that's understandable to want to avoid.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

While I don't think I've read any articles like that myself, I've seen similar ones on the Real Gay^TM debate in the gay community, so let me analogize for a moment and you can see if this kind of sounds familiar.

Basically, there's a bit of a philosophical divide between the "straight-passing" guys and the "flamboyant" guys (also phrased as "straight-acting" vs. "stereotypical", "masc" vs. "fem", or the like, but there are really no good non-pejorative ways to label either one). Some guys are naturally straight-passing, think that's a good thing, and feel that Real Gays^TM should act like that to "be normal" because gay people are just like straight people; some guys are naturally straight-passing, don't think that's a good thing, and do what they can to actively play into the stereotypes because they feel that's what Real Gays^TM are like and feel left out of the gay community otherwise; some guys are naturally flamboyant, think that's a good thing, and feel that Real Gays^TM shouldn't try to integrate into "straight society" because gay culture is freeing and worth preserving; some guys are naturally flamboyant, think that's not a good thing, and do what they can to suppress their natural behavior because they feel that Real Gays^TM in [current year] should be like everyone else and want to fit in.

So you see all sorts of articles along the lines of "You don't owe it to anyone to 'act straight'!" written from the flamboyant perspective and "You don't owe it to anyone to put on a 'gay accent'!" written from the straight-passing perspective, because they're targeting the guys who are in one group and feel pressured to act like the other. You don't tend to see many articles along the lines of "It's fine to be gay and like sports!" and "It's fine to be gay and like drag!" because those are often viewed as defensive or performative or whatever, and also simply because guys who feel comfortable in their own skin don't tend to write articles about it. And that's unfortunate, because someone who is straight-passing and likes it but reads a lot of "it's okay to be flamboyant" articles, or someone who is flamboyant and likes it but reads a lot of "it's okay to be straight-passing" articles, might get the impression that Real Gays^TM are the opposite of them and they shouldn't feel fine with how they are.

Which is all to say, when it comes to passing (physically, or socially, or culturally, or whatever), there are no wrong options! If you do pass and are happy about that, that's fine; if you don't pass and wish you did, that's fine; if you don't pass and are happy about that, that's fine; if you do pass and wish you didn't, that's fine. If you see an "empowerment" article that aligns with what you want to do, use it as a pick-me-up and take its message to heart; if you see one that doesn't align with what you want to do, don't see it as a commentary on your worthiness as a Real [Anything], but rather realize that it's aimed at people who feel insecure in their own different goals and shouldn't make you feel insecure in your own goals. Because the whole point of empowerment is to empower you, as you are and want to be.

[Thufir]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

While some people might take it further, I think the majority of concerned people would agree that such a thing could be better phrased "You don't owe it to anyone else to pass." If you want to pass, then you should try to, because that's what you want - you might choose to say you owe it to yourself. The point should be that you don't have to conform to standards set by other people, but you should be free to set your own, wherever they happen to fall.

[The Fury]

Then you are probably not ready ... yet.
Anyway, once you are doing fine by yourself, getting into and maintaining a relationship both takes effort. Since you have to offer the other person something.

I largely agree. And I am aware that any kind of relationship does take effort. Even platonic friendships, and I do try. Ever since I started having better mental health, I'm more accepting of the idea that people might like me rather than tolerate me. I've started to feel like maybe I do have something good to offer. I'm not sure what it is, I was never good at seeing my strengths, but I might have something.

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

Hm. Well, you're evidently not imaginary, so I'm pretty sure that makes you a real girl.

Jokes aside, I feel like I should put my cards on the table, I'm not trans. For that reason, I don't feel like I can claim to be any kind of expert on a trans experience. I'll try my best to be helpful though.

Maybe you don't owe it to present in a certain way just to make anyone else comfortable. But what do you want for yourself? Maybe you don't have to "pass" but you're not wrong for wanting to. In the end, you have to do what's best for yourself and only you has any idea of what that is.

[LaZodiac]

Thanks guys. That really helped a lot.

It's just hard sometimes. I want to pass... and to some people I DO, but I want to pass To Me, which seems pretty difficult.

[DataNinja]

Thanks guys. That really helped a lot.

It's just hard sometimes. I want to pass... and to some people I DO, but I want to pass To Me, which seems pretty difficult.

You're your own worst critic. In writing. In art. In anything. It's just a fundamental truth of being human - you see what you set out to do, to make. You see all the flaws, where you failed to live up to your intentions. Others simply see the results.

[Themrys]

Thanks guys. That really helped a lot.

It's just hard sometimes. I want to pass... and to some people I DO, but I want to pass To Me, which seems pretty difficult.

How does that work? You know you are a "real girl" so why would you have to prove that to yourself? I cannot quite wrap my brain around it.

I mean, I know that feeling when I look in the mirror and don't look at all how I would like to look, but then, I can still see that's me, just with circles under my eyes and pimples. (And then I tend to solve that problem by walking away from the mirror and distracting myself by doing something that's nothing to do with my looks and doesn't require me to be near mirrors. I guess I still have to work on my self esteem, but for now, it works.)

Love yourself. Be kind to yourself. You can't always influence what other people do and say, but you can always choose to be kind to yourself and accept yourself just as you are.

[DataNinja]

How does that work? You know you are a "real girl" so why would you have to prove that to yourself? I cannot quite wrap my brain around it.

Logic and emotions aren't always the same. You might know you are, in your head, but don't necessarily feel it. You want to see you as your ideal, not someone who reminds you of the mask you wore. That's what it seems to me, at least.

[King539]

Just came out as nonbinary over Instagram. Feeling stressed but hopeful.

[137beth]

Just came out as nonbinary over Instagram. Feeling stressed but hopeful.

Congratulations on that step.

[King539]

Congratulations on that step.

It's been great! My family and friends have been super supportive, and even people who I thought would be kinda queerphobic have been nice!

[BisectedBrioche]

It's been quite a long time since I posted in these fora (unless you count trying to post literally when the forums went down. Everyone thought I was a guy at the time (I think; I might have come out as NB before then, but I came out as a woman after that).

I've spent the last decade transitioning while working retail, which wasn't great (although it could have been worse), but it means I can wear my hair like my favourite video game character now, so it's all good.

Also, question: Do I have to set my gender as MtF to the left there, or is just F OK?

[catagent101]

In response to your question: yup, just F is okay and no you don't have to set it to MtF. Both are (like the gender marker itself) options, not requirements. Choose whichever one best suits you.

[Eldest]

Also, question: Do I have to set my gender as MtF to the left there, or is just F OK?

Up to you. Some people do, some people don't.

[BisectedBrioche]

In response to your question: yup, just F is okay and no you don't have to set it to MtF. Both are (like the gender marker itself) options, not requirements. Choose whichever one best suits you.

Up to you. Some people do, some people don't.

Aight, thanks!

Back when I was last active there was only an M and F option. Definitely a step up, anyway.

[137beth]

Welcome back Bisected! Actually, welcome back to everyone, now that the forum is live again.

[BisectedBrioche]

Oh yeah, obligatory selfie:

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[Lissou]

Oh wow, you're really pretty <3

[Heliomance]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

Wait, you're not cis? Pretty sure you've been around since before I first came out, and I genuinely had no clue

[LaZodiac]

Wait, you're not cis? Pretty sure you've been around since before I first came out, and I genuinely had no clue

Yeah I'm a trans woman. I've been keeping it a secret for years but I've recently decided to come out due to the budding realization that my life is actually on track. I'm a year and a half deep on hormones and waiting for the psyche evaluation for surgery. Which of course hit a snag since up in Canada there's really only two groups that do the evaluation, and one of them stopped taking people 17 and up recently because the doctor responsible, in their words, vanished off the face of the earth.

So that's cool.

[The Fury]

Yeah I'm a trans woman. I've been keeping it a secret for years but I've recently decided to come out due to the budding realization that my life is actually on track. I'm a year and a half deep on hormones and waiting for the psyche evaluation for surgery. Which of course hit a snag since up in Canada there's really only two groups that do the evaluation, and one of them stopped taking people 17 and up recently because the doctor responsible, in their words, vanished off the face of the earth.

So that's cool.

Oh! For a while I'd assumed that you came out as trans a long time ago and I either wasn't around or too self-absorbed to notice until recently. Good luck with the evaluation and all, hopefully someone can take care of that sooner rather than later.

[LaZodiac]

Oh! For a while I'd assumed that you came out as trans a long time ago and I either wasn't around or too self-absorbed to notice until recently. Good luck with the evaluation and all, hopefully someone can take care of that sooner rather than later.

Yeah, you noticed around the time I first came out about it. Heliomance hasn't been around in a while though, so this is news. I actually feel kinda cool to be noticed like that by her, honestly .

[BisectedBrioche]

Every so often I read an empowerment thing like "you don't owe it to anyone to pass, or the way vocal feminization makes you speak is unnatural" and I feel really bad, because I WANT to pass as a quote unquote Real Girl, and I know I don't have to, but I want to, and I'm worried that that's the wrong behavior to have.

Thoughts?

Kinda late to this conversation, but to give my £0.02; "You don't owe any sort of presentation to other people (especially cis people)" and "You deserve to be comfortable with your appearance and presentation" both tie into one another, they aren't mutually exclusive.

You don't owe anyone anything, and that includes wanting to pass.

[King539]

Hoo boy so one of the people in my D&D group is transphobic so I had to leave.

I've managed to start a new D&D game with my school's GSA so that's pretty cool.

[Lentrax]

Hello lovelies!

I hope all of you are safe.

And for those of who aren’t, remember:

I love you.