LGBTAI+ #59: Will You Take This Woman To Be Your Galpal?

[Iruka]

The last week's felt pretty rough for trans rights:

And if leaked spoilers for The Last of Us 2 are anything to go by:

Spoiler: Leaked spoilers mind you

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The main villain's going to be a trans woman, who murders Ellie's girlfriend.

Where did you find that info? From what I gathered, it sounded almost like the opposite ... (I am however not very familiar with the LoU franchise.)
Naughty Dog in general seemed rather supportive of LGBTQ issues.

Spoiler: more leaked stuff

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According to this older article the story handels LBGTQ prosecution and the bad guys are a homophobic cult.
Might be oudated?

All other stuff was about a character named Abby (who might be trans) who comes into conflict with the protagonists from the first game but acts more like a co-protagonist. Major spoilers here or here.

[BisectedBrioche]

Where did you find that info? From what I gathered, it sounded almost like the opposite ... (I am however not very familiar with the LoU franchise.)
Naughty Dog in general seemed rather supportive of LGBTQ issues.

Spoiler: more leaked stuff

Show

According to this older article the story handels LBGTQ prosecution and the bad guys are a homophobic cult.
Might be oudated?

All other stuff was about a character named Abby (who might be trans) who comes into conflict with the protagonists from the first game but acts more like a co-protagonist. Major spoilers here or here.

Hmm, it seems I got confused by

Spoiler

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complaints that Ellie's GF is killed off, and Joel getting killed.

[The Fury]

Hmm, it seems I got confused by

Spoiler

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complaints that Ellie's GF is killed off, and Joel getting killed.

OK. My complaints about the series as whole still stand though. I liked a lot of the surface traits of The Last of Us, the aesthetic and the acting. I'll even admit that it was affecting in a lot of ways. It's just... it was sad for the sake of being sad, you know? I don't think it was using the sadness to make any kind of point, it was just a depressing slog.

[PopeLinus1]

You know what I'm excited for? The same ten minute youtube videos of adult men ****ting themselves over how someone in a video game isn't one of the two character templates: straight white men, or women wearing bikinis.

Oh wait, it's already happened

[BisectedBrioche]

They do seem quite irate. This amuses me.

[Rydiro]

They do seem quite irate. This amuses me.

Somewhat understandable, if the subtext really is "White bad, men bad, christians bad." But whatever, its just a game.

[PopeLinus1]

Somewhat understandable, if the subtext really is "White bad, men bad, christians bad." But whatever, its just a game.

...Have you eve played a game where that was the subtext?

[BladeofObliviom]

Truth be told if I had played such a game (especially from like a real publishing company and not just a very annoyed indie dev doing it for the meme) I think I'd be so shocked by the suicidal boldness of it that I might forget to be insulted.

[PopeLinus1]

Truth be told if I had played such a game (especially from like a real publishing company and not just a very annoyed indie dev doing it for the meme) I think I'd be so shocked by the suicidal boldness of it that I might forget to be insulted.

But my point is that games like that don't exist. Some people on the internet just like to get mad when people put minorities in their media, and claim that it's "anti whichever majority group they happen to be a part of".

[BladeofObliviom]

Oh, I'm totally in agreement with you. Such games don't exist, such that I'd be genuinely and utterly shocked if I encountered one.

[Galaxander]

But my point is that games like that don't exist. Some people on the internet just like to get mad when people put minorities in their media, and claim that it's "anti whichever majority group they happen to be a part of".

Exactly. If 2 out of 8 characters are minorities, they freak out about the game "trying to be woke" which completely ruins it for them, somehow.

[PopeLinus1]

Exactly. If 2 out of 8 characters are minorities, they freak out about the game "trying to be woke" which completely ruins it for them, somehow.

If it's 1 out of 8 they'll get mad.

[The Fury]

You know what I'm excited for? The same ten minute youtube videos of adult men ****ting themselves over how someone in a video game isn't one of the two character templates: straight white men, or women wearing bikinis.

Oh wait, it's already happened

Know what's hilarious? When games, (or media in general,) do this, and these clowns start making samey videos complaining about "x being woke garbage," it just makes more people aware of it and possibly curious about it.

I mean, I only learned about the She-Ra reboot because a bunch of internet blowhards were offended by some promotional images. Lucky thing too. When I watched it, I loved it.

[PopeLinus1]

Know what's hilarious? When games, (or media in general,) do this, and these clowns start making samey videos complaining about "x being woke garbage," it just makes more people aware of it and possibly curious about it.

I mean, I only learned about the She-Ra reboot because a bunch of internet blowhards were offended by some promotional images. Lucky thing too. When I watched it, I loved it.

EPIC FAIL: Woke infected Shi-Ra propaganda PROMOTED by SJW The Quartering AND EVERYTHING HATES IT

[The Fury]

EPIC FAIL: Woke infected Shi-Ra propaganda PROMOTED by SJW The Quartering AND EVERYTHING HATES IT

And now, another piece of media found its audience and everyone feels a little less alone! Thank you internet outrage guy! *salutes*

[BisectedBrioche]

https://medium.com/@CassieLaBelle/ge...k-6fdc7ae3ac85

Finally, a description of GD I actually vibe with.

And/or my entire childhood reduced to a damn list of bulletpoints.

[Mith]

https://medium.com/@CassieLaBelle/ge...k-6fdc7ae3ac85

Finally, a description of GD I actually vibe with.

And/or my entire childhood reduced to a damn list of bulletpoints.

Huh.....that article is definitely deserves a think from me.

I still stand by a better description being "genderfluid" simply because I do think that being able to switch between two "settings" is my personal desire.

But this does put some different perspectives on things.

[137beth]

https://medium.com/@CassieLaBelle/ge...k-6fdc7ae3ac85

Finally, a description of GD I actually vibe with.

And/or my entire childhood reduced to a damn list of bulletpoints.

Thanks for linking to this article. She describes a considerable amount of the feelings I've had that I haven't heard other people express. One thing that stood out to me:

Cultivating a personal style? That was A Thing For Other People. The idea of focusing on my body at all was deeply troubling, so I just wore the most comfortable clothes I could buy online. Hoodies, baggy jeans, etc. All male fashion styles really bothered me, but I couldn’t tell you why.

That's how I felt for most of my life. I took it as a sign that I couldn't be trans, because I fit the male stereotype of not having a sense of fashion.

Oh, I'm totally in agreement with you. Such games don't exist, such that I'd be genuinely and utterly shocked if I encountered one.

I expect big-budget media to handle minority characters differently from independent media. For example, in the world of the webcomic Sister Claire, straight people don't exist at all. There's no need to include a token straight character, because they authors just don't want to. I'd be shocked if a major studio/publisher ever did something like that. But I'm not shocked when I see independent media (especially by queer creators) that doesn't focus on straight white men.

Even so, I don't recall every reading/playing/watching a story where the message was "straight white men are bad." I agree that such stories either don't exist, or they are really far out on the fringe of self-published media.

[Mith]

Thanks for linking to this article. She describes a considerable amount of the feelings I've had that I haven't heard other people express. One thing that stood out to me:


That's how I felt for most of my life. I took it as a sign that I couldn't be trans, because I fit the male stereotype of not having a sense of fashion.

I am glad that I found that article, as with more introspection I wonder if I am mistaken with using a label of "genderfluid".

The issue I have is that I came across the concept of genderfluid in the context of the webcomic El Goonish Shive where there is a character defined as gender fluid who can switch between gender expressions. So I have always had the sense of "the wrong skin" every so often for a long time, and that seemed to fit, as it really came and went.

However, the fluid part means being actually OK in your current skin, and the more I think about it, the less I feel that is actually the case.

However, the nature of gender being a personal experience/self diagnostics means that I find myself highly uncertain of what qualifies as "right". I'll probably have to wait to get my own place so that I don't have to worry about reactions from family.

[Anymage]

However, the nature of gender being a personal experience/self diagnostics means that I find myself highly uncertain of what qualifies as "right".

If it helps any, the sheer proliferation of new terms means that everyone else is just winging it and making stuff too. I'll be curious how all this shakes out come the mid/late 20s, but for nowjust explore who you are and where you are in genderspace. Proper technical terminology can wait.

Even so, I don't recall every reading/playing/watching a story where the message was "straight white men are bad." I agree that such stories either don't exist, or they are really far out on the fringe of self-published media.

I do think there's a contrasting point that does exist here. You tend to find straight white men overrepresented in certain negative roles, because a minority in a negative role would draw unnecessary blowback. I want my representation to represent the whole spectrum of types, heroic and villainous.

Having said that, I'll add my voice to the chorus that I've never seen a production from any reputable company go into pure "straight white man bad" territory.

[BisectedBrioche]

If it helps any, the sheer proliferation of new terms means that everyone else is just winging it and making stuff too. I'll be curious how all this shakes out come the mid/late 20s, but for nowjust explore who you are and where you are in genderspace. Proper technical terminology can wait.



I do think there's a contrasting point that does exist here. You tend to find straight white men overrepresented in certain negative roles, because a minority in a negative role would draw unnecessary blowback. I want my representation to represent the whole spectrum of types, heroic and villainous.

Having said that, I'll add my voice to the chorus that I've never seen a production from any reputable company go into pure "straight white man bad" territory.

While it's true that there are a greater number of straight white cisgender men in villain rolls, that's more because they make up the overwhelming majority of characters full stop. It's disingenuous to claim that there's some push to only allow villains be in that group when the opposite is blatantly true.

The overwhelming majority of minority groups are only represented as villains or sidekicks when they actually appear. To the point where it can be seen in tropes (as named and described on TV Tropes) like Scary Black Man and Sissy Villain. Criticism of such tropes does not mean that they aren't alive and kicking in modern media.

EDIT: Of course, it is true that a lot of the issues with representation can be solved simply by making sure any given marginalised character in a work isn't the only representative of their group in said work.

[Mith]

If it helps any, the sheer proliferation of new terms means that everyone else is just winging it and making stuff too. I'll be curious how all this shakes out come the mid/late 20s, but for nowjust explore who you are and where you are in genderspace. Proper technical terminology can wait.

That is true. It will be something that I cannot really commit to until I am out of my parent's house, as they are the centre of family gatherings, and I really do not expect much support from family over transitioning. I'd want my own place to be able to sort this out.

But I guess a detail I can add to the list as far as expression through video games and TTRPGs is that while I could be missing a few, most of the characters I really got myself in the headspace of have been women, combined with the fact that I think the only male avatar I have used for any video game rep (as few as they are) have always been fussing over female avatars, or trying to get a gender locked avatar to approximate an appearance.

20/20 hindsight and all that.

[BladeofObliviom]

I've been in a similar boat for a few months now, for whatever it's worth. Pretty awkward to confront a core pillar of one's own identity and find it wanting, but it can happen. And then there's the feeling dumb for not noticing earlier that there may have been a unifying thread to various forms of suck over the last 10-15 years...

[Mith]

I've been in a similar boat for a few months now, for whatever it's worth. Pretty awkward to confront a core pillar of one's own identity and find it wanting, but it can happen. And then there's the feeling dumb for not noticing earlier that there may have been a unifying thread to various forms of suck over the last 10-15 years...

The one that started the frantic reading was the statement of not having a sense of "this is where I'll be in 5 years" and an overwhelming feeling of "I guess I'll die young."

That's been me since puberty really. And isn't discussed as disphoria.

[BladeofObliviom]

Hard same tbh. I just thought it was depression but then it kinda never got better. Less intense, but mostly 'resolved' by just not thinking about it and having terrible future planning.

[LaZodiac]

So, I've got a question, and I feel like you guys would be more suited to answering this than me.

Say I'm commissioning art of characters from my novel who are LGBTA+, with pride flags incorporated into the design (say, a t-shirt that's the bi flag). How would I do this for the one character who is straight? I don't want to just not include her, since she is their friend and is really supportive of them, but I'm not sure how to actually go about this in a way that would work.

I realize this is a silly question, but sometimes you need to ask those sorts of things.

[Galaxander]

So, I've got a question, and I feel like you guys would be more suited to answering this than me.

Say I'm commissioning art of characters from my novel who are LGBTA+, with pride flags incorporated into the design (say, a t-shirt that's the bi flag). How would I do this for the one character who is straight? I don't want to just not include her, since she is their friend and is really supportive of them, but I'm not sure how to actually go about this in a way that would work.

I realize this is a silly question, but sometimes you need to ask those sorts of things.

Would it look wrong to have the cishet character wearing just non-coded clothes? My first instinct would be to just let them be the odd one out.

If that won't work, maybe have them have a small pride rainbow pin or ribbon or something as just a small signal of support, assuming the other characters' colors are more visually prominent.

[Unavenger]

So, I've got a question, and I feel like you guys would be more suited to answering this than me.

Say I'm commissioning art of characters from my novel who are LGBTA+, with pride flags incorporated into the design (say, a t-shirt that's the bi flag). How would I do this for the one character who is straight? I don't want to just not include her, since she is their friend and is really supportive of them, but I'm not sure how to actually go about this in a way that would work.

I realize this is a silly question, but sometimes you need to ask those sorts of things.

There exist straight flags (one that I particularly like is pink on one side and blue on the other with a little white heart in the middle; a picture of the Rain cast features a black and white flag as well), although some of them might have connections to some of the dumb "Straight pride parades" that are mostly about being a ****, so... choose carefully if you go down that route I guess?

[BisectedBrioche]

There's also an issue of implying "straight pride" is a thing (reinforcing pride over something society considers a default and accepts without question is a little "All Lives Matter").

Just having her not wearing any coded clothes, or wearing very plain clothes (a la Skittles going black and white for pride month) is probably the way to go.

[Anymage]

So, I've got a question, and I feel like you guys would be more suited to answering this than me.

Are these individual pictures or group shots? If the latter, just have her be behind the others so her shirt doesn't show.

If everybody gets their own individual sketches, on a hunch I googled "lgbtq ally flag". Of course someone made one already.