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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Male

    Default Revising Evocation, Take 2

    In my last attempt to dismantle Evocation, people felt that it didn't deserve to be wiped out. Design goals for this round are:

    • "Reclaiming" Evocation effects from others schools (mostly Conjuration ([Acid]), to make Evocation worthwhile
    • Streamlining many Evocation effects into multiple-choice spells similar to the "energy" powers from psionics. General Evocation theme is damaging spells (other than negative energy), [Light] spells, and some force effects.
    • No caster-level cap for Evocation spells (alternatively, could have a non-epic version of Enhance Spell), and other buffs (e.g. burst and cone spells with level-dependent areas)
    • All Evocation spells presented here allow a save of some kind for half damage


    All due credit to nonsi's Spellfire thread for inspiration!

    Spoiler: Revised Sor/Wiz Spell List
    Show
    n.b. "subsumed" = deleted entirely or replaced by the new spells

    0th- acid splash and ray of frost are subsumed

    1st- burning hands, magic missile, and shocking grasp are subsumed
    -colour spray now [Light] Evocation instead of [Pattern] Illusion
    -n.b unseen servant is still Conjuration but it gains the [Force] descriptor

    2nd-acid arrow and pyrotechnics now Evocation
    -pyrotechnics gains [Fire] and [Light] descriptors
    -scorching ray is subsumed
    -hypnotic pattern now [Light] Evocation instead of [Pattern] Illusion

    3rd-fireball and lightning bolt are subsumed
    -flaming arrow now Evocation

    4th-wall of fire and wall of ice are subsumed
    -rainbow pattern now [Light] Evocation instead of [Pattern] Illusion

    5th-cone of cold is subsumed

    6th-acid fog and chain lightning are subsumed
    -disintegrate now [Force] Evocation

    7th-prismatic spray now [Light]

    8th-incendiary cloud and polar ray are subsumed
    -scintillating pattern now [Light] Evocation instead of [Pattern] Illusion

    9th-meteor swarm is subsumed


    Spoiler: Minor Energy Ray: replaces Acid Splash, Ray of Frost
    Show
    Minor Energy Ray
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 0
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: Ray
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and fire a ray that deals 1d6 points of damage of that energy type. The ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike), though your caster level is reduced by one-half for the purpose of these effects. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Flare: replaces Burning Hands
    Show
    Energy Flare
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: See text
    Area: 5-ft.-radius burst or 15-ft. cone-shaped burst
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and generate a either a 5-foot radius burst or a 15-foot cone that deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type to all creatures and unattended objects in the area. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the burst or cone may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Strike: Replaces Shocking Grasp
    Show
    Energy Strike
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Targets: You
    Duration: See text

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and imbue that energy type into your attacks. For the remainder of that round, your melee and ranged weapon attacks deal an additional 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type. Creatures struck by your attacks are allowed Reflex saves for each attack to halve the additional damage. If a creature has spell resistance, it applies to this effect.

    The extra damage from this spell applies to attacks you make with weapons, natural weapons, and unarmed strikes, but not to attack rolls made for touch or ray spells. You may also choose to make melee touch attacks in place of unarmed strikes.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects, as follows:

    Acid
    The damage die of the spell is reduced by one step (e.g.from d6 to d4). On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make a Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage per two caster levels.

    Cold
    The damage die of the spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against water creatures, and the save against this spell is a Fortitude save rather than a Reflex save. On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make an additional Fortitude save or take 1 point of Dexterity damage per two caster levels.

    Electricity
    The damage die of the spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against metallic creatures, water creatures, and creatures wearing metal armour or in contact with water. On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make a Will save or take 1 point of Strength damage per two caster levels. The spell sets fire to combustibles and can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze.

    Fire
    The damage die of this spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against plant creatures. On your next turn, any creature (or unattended flammable object) that failed a save against this spell must make an additional Reflex save or be immolated. Immolated creatures and objects take 1d6 points of fire damage per two caster levels on the end of their turns. A creature or object that takes at least 1 point of cold damage or spends a full-round action to smother the flames is no longer immolated. The spell can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze.

    Sonic
    The damage die of the spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against crystalline creatures and objects, and is reduced by one step (e.g. from d6 to d4) against all other creatures and objects. The save against this spell is a Fortitude save rather than a Reflex save. On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make a Will save or take 1 point of Wisdom damage per two caster levels.

    Creatures and objects only suffer the above effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting.

    When you use a this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Missiles: replaces Magic Missile
    Show
    Energy Missiles
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Targets: Up to target/level, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and fire a missile from your fingertips, dealing 1d6 points of damage of the chosen energy type to a target creature or object. The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature or object can’t be singled out.

    You fire up to one missile per two caster levels. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single target or several targets. A single missile can strike only one target. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Ray: replaces Scorching Ray
    Show
    Energy Ray
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 swift action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Effect: One or more rays
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and gain the ability to fire rays of that energy type in place of making attacks. For the remainder of that round, you may fire one ray in place of any attack you would otherwise be permitted. Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit (using your base attack bonus for iterative attacks) and deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type. If you make a full attack, you may fire one additional ray at your full attack bonus.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Bolt: replaces Lightning Bolt
    Show
    Energy Bolt
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Area: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) line
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and fire a bolt that deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type. The bolt starts at your fingertips and damages all creatures and unattended objects in its area. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Burst: replaces Fireball, Delayed Blast Fireball,
    Show
    Energy Burst
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Area: 5-foot/level radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and produce an explosion that deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type to all creatures and unattended objects in the area. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

    You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the explosion is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the explosion at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the explosion may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Aura: replaces Fire Shield
    Show
    Energy Aura
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 4
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: One round/level

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and wreathe yourself in an aura of the chosen energy type. Any creature striking you with its body or a handheld weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels of the chosen energy type. Attackers are allowed Reflex saves for each attack to halve the additional damage. If the attacker has spell resistance, it applies to this effect. Creatures wielding weapons with exceptional reach are not subject to this damage if they attack you.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Wall: Replaces Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice
    Show
    Energy Wall
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 4
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: Opaque sheet of energy up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of energy with a radius of up to 5 ft. per two levels or a sphere of energy with a radius of 1 ft./level; either form 5 ft. high per caster level
    Duration: Concentration plus 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and produce an wall of that type of energy. One side of the wall, selected by you, sends forth waves of energy, dealing 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels to creatures within 10 feet and 1d6 points of damage per three caster levels to those past 10 feet but within 20 feet. The wall deals this damage when it appears and on your turn each round to all creatures in the area. In addition, the wall deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level to any creature passing through it. All damage dealt by the wall is of the chosen energy type.

    If you evoke the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall.

    Crystallised Energy
    You may choose to produce a wall of concentrated energy that physically blocks passage. If you do so, the wall does not generate waves of energy. Instead, each 10-foot section of the wall gains 3 hit points per caster level. Creatures can hit the wall automatically. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 15 + caster level. Even when the wall has been broken through, a sheet of energy remains. Any creature stepping through it (including the one who broke through the wall) takes damage as for the wave-generating wall (Reflex half).

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.

    Wall of energy can be made permanent with a permanency spell.


    Spoiler: Energy Cone: replaces Cone of Cold
    Show
    Energy Cone
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Area: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) cone-shaped burst
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and generate a cone that deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type to all creatures and unattended objects in the area. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the cone may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Field: replaces Acid Fog and Incendiary Cloud
    Show
    Energy Field
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 6
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Up to 10 ft./level or Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: Up to 10-ft.-radius/level emanation
    Duration: 1 round/level (D)
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and are surrounded by an emanation that surrounds you and moves with you. The emanation deals 1d6 points of damage per three caster levels of the chosen energy type to all creatures and unattended objects within the spells area. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the emanation may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

    You may instead choose to generate the emanation at any point within 100 feet plus 10 feet per caster level. If you do so, the emanation is immobile unless you spend a standard action to move it up to 30 feet in any direction.

    In either case, you are immune to your own emanation.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Chain: replaces Chain Lightning
    Show
    Energy Chain
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 6
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Area: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) line; see text
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Reflex half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and generate an arcing bolt of energy from your fingertips that deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level of the chosen energy type to all creatures and unattended objects in the area. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

    You may direct the bolt's path as you choose in 5-foot increments; it may cross itself or even double back directly on itself as you wish. You may also cause the bolt to fork at any number of points; each fork splits into any number of new bolts and you determine the course of each as above. The total area of the original bolt plus all additional bolts cannot exceed the spell's area. A given creature is only struck once by this spell, regardless of how many overlapping bolt areas it is within.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that casting. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Beam: replaces Polar Ray
    Show
    Energy Beam
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 8
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) line; see text
    Effect: Ray
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, you choose acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic and fire a powerful beam that deals 1d6 points of the damage of the chosen energy type. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage to a target.

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures damaged by the beam must make saves against the additional effects as though they had failed their first save against the spell. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Spoiler: Energy Storm: replaces Meteor Swarm
    Show
    Energy Storm
    Evocation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 9
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Effect: Four Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels).-radius spreads; see text
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None or Reflex half; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Upon casting this spell, four 2-foot-diameter orbs spring from your outstretched hand and streak in straight lines to the spots you select. If you aim an orb at a specific creature, you may make a ranged touch attack to strike the target with the orb. Any creature struck by one of these orbs takes 2d6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save) and receives no saving throw against the orb’s energy damage (see below). If a targeted orb misses its target, it simply explodes at the nearest corner of the target’s space. You may aim more than one orb at the same target.

    Once an orb reaches its destination, it explodes in a spread with a radius of 25 feet + 5 feet per two caster levels. Each creature in the spread takes 1d6 points of damage per three caster levels of your choice of acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage. If a creature is within the area of more than one orb, it must save separately against each. (Energy resistance applies to each orb’s damage individually.)

    The energy type you choose has certain additional effects (see energy strike). Creatures only suffer the additional effects once per per energy type per casting of the spell, even if they fail more than one save against that energy type. When you use this spell to deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, it is a spell of that type.


    Paraelemental Spell [Metamagic]
    Your spells combine the energies of multiple elements.

    Prerequisites
    Spell Focus (evocation), Greater Spell Focus (evocation).

    Benefits
    Whenever you cast an energy spell, you may choose two types of energy from the list of energy types you can select. One-half of the damage dealt by the spell is of the first energy type, and the other half is of the second type. All other effects of the energy type stack. If the energy types use different saving throws for half damage, you may choose the saving throw the spell uses.

    For example, a wizard with this feat could cast an energy cone that dealt both acid and sonic damage. The damage die of the spell would be reduced two steps (to d3), and the wizard chooses either Fortitude or Reflex for the saving throw. Any creature that failed their saving throw would have to make an additional Fortitude save to avoid Constitution damage, and a Will save to avoid Wisdom damage.

    Use the Force [Metamagic] ;)
    You have grown adept in the use of force energy.

    Prerequisites
    Spell Focus (evocation), Greater Spell Focus (evocation)

    Benefits
    Whenever you cast an energy spell, add force energy to the list of energy types you can select.

    Force
    The damage die of the spell is reduced by one step (e.g. from d6 to d4). Any creature that fails a save against this spell must make an additional Fortitude save or be knocked 5 feet in the direction of your choice and fall prone.

    Warmage [Metamagic]
    You have mastered destructive magic.

    Prerequisites
    Battle sorcerer variant or specialist wizard (evoker), Spell Focus (evocation).

    Benefits
    You gain the ability to spontaneously cast energy spells. As a standard action you may expend a prepared or open spell slot to cast any energy spell of an equal or lower level.

    If you are a spontaneous caster, one energy spell per spell level you can cast does not count towards your spells known. You automatically know one energy spell of each spell level you can cast.



    Open to suggestions for toning down/increasing the power level of the new spells. Should the ability damage be reduced to 1 point per 3 caster levels? Should they deal actual status effects e.g. sonic spells that daze or deafen or stun? Should acid spells simply do extra damage (a la acid arrow) instead of Constitution damage? Should energy aura be level 7+?
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-09-21 at 09:19 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    .

    Energy Strike – I like it a lot.
    Also liked the "Specific parts of a creature or object can’t be singled out" part. Would give another incentive for Force Weaponry in my project (if it's ok that I take it that is)


    Energy Missiles – I'd go for less but more reliable damage.
    1. Ref save vs. effects that require an attack roll is annoying.
    2. There are quite a few relatively easy ways of gaining Evasion.

    Energy Ray – seems too good for a 2nd level spell.

    Energy Bolt – long range seems too much to me.

    Warmage – I liked the compensation for the Battle sorcerer's reduced spell repertoire, but 1 spell per SL seems enough to me. 7 spells for a single feat seems more than a fair trade to me.


    The rest seems OK, and well thought out.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Things that I'm seeing:

    All of your additional effects derive off of caster level instead of spell level. This leads to weird results like a 0th level spell doing 3+ points of stat damage. My first instinct is that energy strike needs a lesser effect, and 3rd level+ spells can derive off of the current energy strike's effects. This can also leave the lesser effect for something like Energy Aura to use (and have the greater energy aura at 6th or 7th).

    I think that there should also be a Lesser Cone at 1st to actually duplicate burning hands to let an evoker keep some AoE (outside of stunts with Energy Strike and a bow). Either that, or there should be an energy blast (5ft radius/2cl around you, minimum 5ft), replacing fireburst from a supplement.

    I think Energy Wall poorly replaces Wall of Ice, since Wall of Ice is a (fair) solid wall. It'd be pretty cool if the augments can be overwritten to allow the wall to act more solid where it makes sense (probably electricity, cold, and force with your feat, maybe sonic could force a knockdown if they try to escape).

    The other thing I want to see is a replacement for Meteor Swarm, as a siege AoE and a definitive 9th level spell. I'd also like to see disintegrate branched into one of these spells (probably at 7th, but removing the attack roll) as a spell that directs overkill amounts of damage into a single target in a single cast, and doesn't require investing heavily into archery feats to make it happen.
    http://superrunner2003.wordpress.com/ - A blog of my personal Pathfinder homebrew material

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .

    Energy Strike – I like it a lot.
    Also liked the "Specific parts of a creature or object can’t be singled out" part. Would give another incentive for Force Weaponry in my project (if it's ok that I take it that is)

    Energy Missiles – I'd go for less but more reliable damage.
    1. Ref save vs. effects that require an attack roll is annoying.
    2. There are quite a few relatively easy ways of gaining Evasion.

    Energy Ray – seems too good for a 2nd level spell.

    Energy Bolt – long range seems too much to me.

    Warmage – I liked the compensation for the Battle sorcerer's reduced spell repertoire, but 1 spell per SL seems enough to me. 7 spells for a single feat seems more than a fair trade to me.

    The rest seems OK, and well thought out.
    Hello, chum! Between the two of us we'll perfect the spell/feat blasting archetypes! :D

    Help yourself to the "can't be singled out" thing, that was cribbed from arcane missiles (these effects were almost all rewrites of pre-existing spells).

    Energy Missiles - the trouble is, the additional energy effects become too powerful if the spell doesn't allow you a save to avoid them, so the Reflex saves were kind of necessary for all these spells. Evasion is indeed the key weakness here, which is why you always choose Cold or Sonic against a rogue ;)

    Energy Ray - is mostly in line with scorching ray; gives more damage but also allows a save in addition to needing a ranged touch attack.

    Energy Bolt- as we discussed with your Spellfire Storm, unless you're fighting an army this will almost always be equal in power to an energy ball (just as fireball matches a 120-foot lightning bolt).

    Warmage-fair point... it makes the grammar awkward but I've edited the feat,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Things that I'm seeing:

    All of your additional effects derive off of caster level instead of spell level. This leads to weird results like a 0th level spell doing 3+ points of stat damage. My first instinct is that energy strike needs a lesser effect, and 3rd level+ spells can derive off of the current energy strike's effects. This can also leave the lesser effect for something like Energy Aura to use (and have the greater energy aura at 6th or 7th).

    I think that there should also be a Lesser Cone at 1st to actually duplicate burning hands to let an evoker keep some AoE (outside of stunts with Energy Strike and a bow). Either that, or there should be an energy blast (5ft radius/2cl around you, minimum 5ft), replacing fireburst from a supplement.

    I think Energy Wall poorly replaces Wall of Ice, since Wall of Ice is a (fair) solid wall. It'd be pretty cool if the augments can be overwritten to allow the wall to act more solid where it makes sense (probably electricity, cold, and force with your feat, maybe sonic could force a knockdown if they try to escape).

    The other thing I want to see is a replacement for Meteor Swarm, as a siege AoE and a definitive 9th level spell. I'd also like to see disintegrate branched into one of these spells (probably at 7th, but removing the attack roll) as a spell that directs overkill amounts of damage into a single target in a single cast, and doesn't require investing heavily into archery feats to make it happen.
    The power of the additional effects was intentional - even if you're reduced to your cantrips at higher levels they'll still have a worthwhile effect so you can still spend your actions to cast them (instead of breaking out ye olde charged magic items).

    Energy strike is a buffed version of shocking grasp (additional effects, potential for multiple attacks),but also nerfed (allows saves). I realllllly don't want to brew up two sets of additional energy effects, I'd much prefer the spells were all symmetrical.

    Energy Wall - I can reduce the damage and add a physical block, or make a specific exception to my "only one set of additional effects" rule for this spell as you say. n.b. Energy Aura can probably use some sort of energy resistance effect too, like Fire Shield.

    A burning hands, polar ray, meteor swarm, etc equivalent were all originally planned but I admit I didn't think there'd be enough interest! I'll gladly whip some up in a bit.

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    At 20th level, you can one-shot dragons with a cantrip, if they fail their save.

    That's not an issue?
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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    At 20th level, you can one-shot dragons with a cantrip, if they fail their save.

    That's not an issue?
    Nope! Let's work through it:

    A cantrip is a 0th-level spell, so the save DC won't include spell level. Dragons (especially the dragons you'll face at 20th level) have great saves.

    The dragon has to 1) fail spell resistance (admittedly probably a given) 2) fail the first save against the cantrip for half damage, AND THEN 3) fail the second save against the spell for the additional effect. Plus you have to make an attack roll, though again you're probably guaranteed to hit.

    When you say one-shot dragons I assume you're referring to dealing 10 Dex damage; suffice to to say it's unlikely that you can get a dragon to fail even one Fort save against a cantrip let alone the 2 failed saves you'd need to deal the Dex damage.

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Edits:
    Burning Hands-> Energy Flare (cone and burst options)
    Polar Ray->Energy Beam
    Wall of Energy->added "crystallised" option
    Meteor Swarm->Energy Storm

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Okay, looking at an Ancient Blue Dragon-CR 21. +25 Fortitude Save which is the relevant save. (+18 to Reflex too, which might be relevant.)

    Touch AC is 6-we're not missing that, a 20th level Wizard has a BAB of +10, so even with a -6 penalty (somehow) we still hit on a 2.

    That just leaves SR and the Save itself. Spell Resistance is 27, so even without any boosts, Wizard passes on a 7.

    For the save, if we started with 18 Int, bumped it up 5 times (23), got a +6 item of Int (29) and, say, a +1 inherent bonus (30) we have +10 to our save DCs, or a base of 20. The dragon is highly likely to pass, only failing on a nat 1.

    Actually, nevermind. Build it like this:

    Human Wizard
    1st level feat: Maximize Spell
    Bonus Feat: Envelop The Wall
    3rd level feat: Invisible Spell
    6th level feat: Arcane Thesis (Minor Energy Ray)
    9th level feat: Irresistible Spell
    12th level feat: Sanctum Spell
    15th, 18th level feats: Irrelevant
    Bonus Wizard feats: Irrelevant

    Cast an Invisible, Enveloped (+0), Sanctum, Irresistible Minor Cold Ray at a dragon. Literally ANY dragon, since they all appear to have a Dex of 10.

    On your next turn, they drop to Dex 0 and you can coup-de-grace them at your leisure.

    Admittedly, quite a cheesy build-that being said, you just one-shotted a dragon with a level 0 spell, with a (.95*.70) two in three chance of success. Take, say, Spell Penetration and the Greater version to beat its SR on a 3, and you jump up to 85.5% chance of success.

    Cantrips should NOT do 10 ability damage.

    Edit: Okay, even without excessive cheese, you can pretty easily hit a DC of around 25 with your Evocation spells.

    Against an Ancient Blue Dragon, with +18 Reflex... And wait, I just realized something that's almost certainly a mistake.

    As written, the first save is irrelevant for secondary effects-there is no clause stating that you must fail the first save to be affected by the second. Like I said, that seems to be an outright mistake.

    Anyway, looking at the numbers, Dragon still succeeds on its will save against Electricity (why is that Will, by the way?) on a 2, so that's not terribly relevant.
    Last edited by JNAProductions; 2017-09-18 at 01:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Okay, looking at an Ancient Blue Dragon-CR 21. +25 Fortitude Save which is the relevant save. (+18 to Reflex too, which might be relevant.)

    Touch AC is 6-we're not missing that, a 20th level Wizard has a BAB of +10, so even with a -6 penalty (somehow) we still hit on a 2.

    That just leaves SR and the Save itself. Spell Resistance is 27, so even without any boosts, Wizard passes on a 7.

    For the save, if we started with 18 Int, bumped it up 5 times (23), got a +6 item of Int (29) and, say, a +1 inherent bonus (30) we have +10 to our save DCs, or a base of 20. The dragon is highly likely to pass, only failing on a nat 1.

    Actually, nevermind. Build it like this:

    Human Wizard
    1st level feat: Maximize Spell
    Bonus Feat: Envelop The Wall
    3rd level feat: Invisible Spell
    6th level feat: Arcane Thesis (Minor Energy Ray)
    9th level feat: Irresistible Spell
    12th level feat: Sanctum Spell
    15th, 18th level feats: Irrelevant
    Bonus Wizard feats: Irrelevant

    Cast an Invisible, Enveloped (+0), Sanctum, Irresistible Minor Cold Ray at a dragon. Literally ANY dragon, since they all appear to have a Dex of 10.

    On your next turn, they drop to Dex 0 and you can coup-de-grace them at your leisure.

    Admittedly, quite a cheesy build-that being said, you just one-shotted a dragon with a level 0 spell, with a (.95*.70) two in three chance of success. Take, say, Spell Penetration and the Greater version to beat its SR on a 3, and you jump up to 85.5% chance of success.

    Cantrips should NOT do 10 ability damage.

    Edit: Okay, even without excessive cheese, you can pretty easily hit a DC of around 25 with your Evocation spells.

    Against an Ancient Blue Dragon, with +18 Reflex... And wait, I just realized something that's almost certainly a mistake.

    As written, the first save is irrelevant for secondary effects-there is no clause stating that you must fail the first save to be affected by the second. Like I said, that seems to be an outright mistake.

    Anyway, looking at the numbers, Dragon still succeeds on its will save against Electricity (why is that Will, by the way?) on a 2, so that's not terribly relevant.
    1) The first scenario is the more likely one, and needless to say a spell that can only one-shot an enemy if they fail spell resistance and roll a natural 1 twice in a row is not broken.

    2) Accounting for all possible non-Core builds is beyond the scope of my homebrew, haha! If your DM allows that build (including metamagic cheese!!), then more power to you... just don't cry foul if it turns out the dragon knows Sheltered Vitality and/or Scintillating Scales ;)

    3) Regarding having to fail the first save (I should probably put this at the start of the "additional effects session rather than burying it in these paragraphs):

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries
    Acid
    The damage die of the spell is reduced by one step (e.g.from d6 to d4). On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make a Fortitude save or take 1 point of Constitution damage per two caster levels.

    Cold
    The damage die of the spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against water creatures, and the save against this spell is a Fortitude save rather than a Reflex save. On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make an additional Fortitude save or take 1 point of Dexterity damage per two caster levels.

    Electricity
    The damage die of the spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against metallic creatures, water creatures, and creatures wearing metal armour or in contact with water. On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make a Will save or take 1 point of Strength damage per two caster levels. The spell sets fire to combustibles and can melt metals with a low melting point, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, or bronze.

    Fire
    The damage die of this spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against plant creatures. On your next turn, any creature (or unattended flammable object) that failed a save against this spell must make an additional Reflex save or be immolated. Immolated creatures and objects take 1d6 points of fire damage per two caster levels on the end of their turns. A creature or object that takes at least 1 point of cold damage or spends a full-round action to smother the flames is no longer immolated. The spell can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze.

    Sonic
    The damage die of the spell is increased by one step (e.g. from d6 to d8) against crystalline creatures and objects, and is reduced by one step (e.g. from d6 to d4) against all other creatures and objects. The save against this spell is a Fortitude save rather than a Reflex save. On your next turn, any creature that failed a save against this spell must make a Will save or take 1 point of Wisdom damage per two caster levels.
    4) In summation, although you CAN get lucky with the dragon's rolls, you're better off casting a level-appropriate spell (so that either the base damage or the higher save against the additional effects will finish off your foe). The Dexterity score of true dragons is a well-known weakness (Shivering Touch, anyone?), but if you try a cantrip as your first spell against a dragon you deserve to get devoured when it fails.

    5) Will save for electricity was just a handwave, could be Fortitude as well I suppose. The idea was that the electric shock dazes/numbs/paralyses you and saps the strength from your limbs, just as the cold damage chills/numbs you and makes you clumsy. I admit they aren't very elegant... cold might work better as a slow effect and electricity could cause confusion maybe?
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-09-18 at 10:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    .
    In my view (dismiss it if you will), under no circumstance should a cantrip have any chance whatsoever of one-shot anything with more HD than 1/5 CL unless it's particularly vulnerable to the attack, or anything with more HD than 1/3 CL period.

    On this one I'm throwing probability considerations out the window.

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .
    In my view (dismiss it if you will), under no circumstance should a cantrip have any chance whatsoever of one-shot anything with more HD than 1/5 CL unless it's particularly vulnerable to the attack, or anything with more HD than 1/3 CL period.

    On this one I'm throwing probability considerations out the window.
    On the one hand, I appreciate the balance considerations you two have raised. On the other, I really do feel this isn't much of a problem. There are too many prerequisites that have to be met:

    1) You have to have caster level 20th (10 Dex damage).

    2) You have to be fighting a True Dragon (and ONLY a True Dragon, there aren't any other monsters of that CR with Dex 10).

    3) You have to make a ranged attack.

    4) You have to beat the dragon's SR.

    5) The Dragon has to fail its Fortitude save for damage.

    6) The Dragon has to fail it's Fortitude save against the additional effect.

    Bonus) The Dragon has to have no spells/feats/etc to protect it.

    Even casting everything else aside, you're basically looking at a dragon (i.e. they of the Good Fortitude progression and high Constitution scores) that has to roll a natural 1 on two Fortitude saves in a row - a 1 in 400 chance. For every wizard that succeeds on one-shotting a dragon with his opening cantrip, there are 399 dead ones. I can't say I like those odds enough to use minor energy ray in place of energy storm! :D

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    On the one hand, I appreciate the balance considerations you two have raised. On the other, I really do feel this isn't much of a problem. There are too many prerequisites that have to be met:

    1) You have to have caster level 20th (10 Dex damage).

    2) You have to be fighting a True Dragon (and ONLY a True Dragon, there aren't any other monsters of that CR with Dex 10).

    3) You have to make a ranged attack.

    4) You have to beat the dragon's SR.

    5) The Dragon has to fail its Fortitude save for damage.

    6) The Dragon has to fail it's Fortitude save against the additional effect.

    Bonus) The Dragon has to have no spells/feats/etc to protect it.

    Even casting everything else aside, you're basically looking at a dragon (i.e. they of the Good Fortitude progression and high Constitution scores) that has to roll a natural 1 on two Fortitude saves in a row - a 1 in 400 chance. For every wizard that succeeds on one-shotting a dragon with his opening cantrip, there are 399 dead ones. I can't say I like those odds enough to use minor energy ray in place of energy storm! :D
    It all depends who's expected to be a subscriber form this project.
    If it's just for you and your game mates, then no problem. If it's for the general public, then I'm assuming that an overwhelming majority will reject a cantrip that is more effective by magnitudes than all other cantrips I've ever encoutered - cast simultaneously.

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    It all depends who's expected to be a subscriber form this project.
    If it's just for you and your game mates, then no problem. If it's for the general public, then I'm assuming that an overwhelming majority will reject a cantrip that is more effective by magnitudes than all other cantrips I've ever encoutered - cast simultaneously.
    That is a good point. I've added a clause to minor energy ray that you use one-half your caster level for that effect (so max 5 Dex damage at 20th level).
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-09-19 at 07:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    I think energy beam needs another pass. I don't think trading iterative attacks for no save really makes it worth +6 levels over energy ray. When I suggested it, my initial thought was long range, 2d6/ caster level, and no save on the initial effect, but this would be a 7th level spell (Disintegrate +1). At 8th level, I'd like to see one of 3d6/level (full round energy ray), or no delay on the energy strike effect (leaning towards a better polar ray).
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    Default Re: Revising Evocation, Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    I think energy beam needs another pass. I don't think trading iterative attacks for no save really makes it worth +6 levels over energy ray. When I suggested it, my initial thought was long range, 2d6/ caster level, and no save on the initial effect, but this would be a 7th level spell (Disintegrate +1). At 8th level, I'd like to see one of 3d6/level (full round energy ray), or no delay on the energy strike effect (leaning towards a better polar ray).
    I've increased the range to Long, but I think 2d6/level with no save is too much. Given that the first save is removed, it's much more likely that your opponent will suffer the additional effects, so I'll leave the damage at 1d6. Your versions are tempting but 3d6/level would basically be "make a ranged touch attack, if you hit your opponent dies"(equivalent of a ranged harm with no save).
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-09-21 at 09:27 PM.

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