How important are dice?

[Aliquid]

Do D&D dice add to the enjoyment of the game for you? I've played games with just sets of d6, and some with a stack of playing cards.
Some of them seemed to have a better system for "chance". But the lack of die variety somehow took away a bit of the fun for me.

[oxybe]

For me?

The physical aspect of the dice? not important. the variety of dice? not important. GURPS and it's 3d6 bell curve holds a special place in my heart and i'm very much pro-electronic dice rollers, if only to stop dice from accidentally flying everywhere. Truth be told I'm not a big fan of the d20 dice itself being used to adjudicate things.

As for the role (/dadjoke) dice play in the game, that of adding or emulating a source of chance or randomness? Yes it's important, however I do think that rolling dice should only be done when:

A) Should only be done in times of in-game stress, for most other situations I assume competence if trained.

B) You're willing to accept how the result of the roll will impact the narrative.

[Fiery Diamond]

For me?

The physical aspect of the dice? not important. the variety of dice? not important. GURPS and it's 3d6 bell curve holds a special place in my heart and i'm very much pro-electronic dice rollers, if only to stop dice from accidentally flying everywhere. Truth be told I'm not a big fan of the d20 dice itself being used to adjudicate things.

As for the role (/dadjoke) dice play in the game, that of adding or emulating a source of chance or randomness? Yes it's important, however I do think that rolling dice should only be done when:

A) Should only be done in times of in-game stress, for most other situations I assume competence if trained.

B) You're willing to accept how the result of the roll will impact the narrative.

So what if you're in a situation where A is true and B is not? Short of saying: "freeform everything," what other solutions do you have to offer?

[oxybe]

So what if you're in a situation where A is true and B is not? Short of saying: "freeform everything," what other solutions do you have to offer?

I dunno if it's my english as a second language thing, but I don't think I fully understand what you're asking.

Going to my two points:

Your character/your players are in a stressful enough situation where you can't just assume innate competence will guarantee to pull you though and are going to use luck or randomization to determine the scenario... but you're unwilling to accept the game adjudicating your success though the dice roll...

I guess my solution would be to play another game since this one obviously doesn't have the results you want.

[weckar]

There are systems where one can spend 'Luck' or 'effort' to succeed at things, but without dice rolls.


As for dice in general; I like variety. dX systems are great as you only need one type at a time, but which you need can vary depending on power level.

[Aneurin]

Do D&D dice add to the enjoyment of the game for you? I've played games with just sets of d6, and some with a stack of playing cards.
Some of them seemed to have a better system for "chance". But the lack of die variety somehow took away a bit of the fun for me.

I'm... not sure what you're asking here. Are you asking about the actual, physical dice? Are you asking about the core resolution mechanic (roll + modifier vs. fixed target number)?

For the former... nope. It doesn't make a difference to my fun, not even a little. I mostly play using electronic rollers these days anyway, and don't play D&D either. I don't particularly appreciate having to go out and buy a bunch of different dice types, many of which only see minimal use in play, and don't find any particular fun in having dice of different shapes - rolling them is not really any different, at least to me, than rolling a normal d6, except for the d4 which refuses to roll properly since it's an awkward shape.

As for the D&D-style resolution mechanic? I don't like it at all. Roll + stat vs. fixed target number is a fairly poor resolution mechanic, regardless of what die is used to make the roll. You can quite easily end up with difficulties that one PC can't pass, while another can't fail - especially in D&D which hands out bonuses like they're sweets.

So what if you're in a situation where A is true and B is not? Short of saying: "freeform everything," what other solutions do you have to offer?

If the consequences of the roll aren't meaningful, don't roll. If failure has no consequences (e.g. unlocking your front door on a normal day, under no pressure) there's no point rolling. Trying to open your front door before the angry drunk guy chasing you catches up is totally worth an Open Front Door test, though.

[Cluedrew]

I enjoy the feel of dice. However I haven't found that having large groups of dice or a variety of dice do much to improve it. I enjoyed many 2d6+stat systems, or even just 1d6 against chart systems so simple dice rolling is fine as well. As for cards, generally not as dramatic, but they work quite well.

[Joe the Rat]

I like dice.

Let me be more specific: I like rolling dice. The thump and clatter, waiting for numbers to settle, the illusion of taking fate in the palm of your hand and casting your destiny (or at least seeing if you can climb that wall) are one of the little things that I enjoy about gaming. I've seen card systems, but they don't have the same impact. Mind you, a good card mechanic, and the use of cards to better thematically fit a game type is solid. Castle Falkenstein with dice would simply be uncouth. Blended systems are fun as well. Deadlands would not be Deadlands if you weren't drawing a poker hand against dark powers to cast a spell.

As to which dice or mechanic are used... is not so important. I enjoy the various polyhedral systems (D20 based, dice chain (DCC), Die by ability (savage worlds)), and monotype systems (2d6, 3d6 over or under, Fudge, d666, Nd12, 2d10, single d20 (Savage Kingdoms plug), percentiles), doesn't matter. It's just about if the mechanic works for its purpose.

I do have a caveat on pool systems (Storyteller, Shadowrun, L5R and 7th Sea roll-n-keep, WEG d6 to a lesser extent) - I appreciate the mechanics, but there is the risk (nay, tendency) to exceed one's hands' grasp. When rolling a bucket of dice is not hyperbole, there may be an issue.

Electronic rollers are fine, and necessary in different setups (such as my Roll20 game). But given the choice, I'll take lumps of molded plastics.
Not metal - it's murder on your table.

[JBPuffin]

I need the physical dice. I've tried roll20 before, and it ring hollow. I crave the multicolored polyhedrons' embrace as much as life itself...

[Max_Killjoy]

I've never been a fan of diceless systems, and some of the other ideas (cards, etc) can either work, or just come across as "we don't use dice!" gimmick.

[NontheistCleric]

My regular group is filled with people who regularly lose or misplace things. Especially small things like dice, so we've become comfortable with just using computer-simulated dice. It's just more convenient.

[JAL_1138]

I collect dice. I enjoy the feel, appearance, and even the sound of physical dice far more than electronic alternatives. I even like filling in the numbers myself and filing down the sprue-marks on Gamescience dice (although that gets real old real fast if I have a bunch of them to work on).

But I don't miss, say, rolling d20s in particular if I'm in a WEG D6, Shadowrun, or other game that doesn't use them. So long as little plastic polyhedrals of some variety--whether it's d6es only, or a huge range of shapes--are involved (and the rules system is enjoyable), it's fine.

Edit: But I can see where you're coming from, I think. I have a bunch of dice with uncommon numbers of sides—d3s, d5s, d7s, d14s, d16s, d24s, d30s, d100s (not percentile—they actually have 100 sides, look like golf balls), and a set of d10s numbered out to 10,000. I keep looking for ways to use them, since so few systems do. It'd be neat to get to actually use the things instead of just have them take up space. I imagine if I quit playing D&D altogether and only played D6 systems, I'd start to really miss rolling my other polyhedrals.

[Airk]

I've never really understood the dice fixation. I mean, they're pretty to look at and stuff, but I find that I don't really pay a damn bit of attention to that during the game itself. If a game has degenerated to the point where I am looking at my polyhedrals and going "Y'know, that's a really handsome shade of blue" then that game is failure. :P

I'm perfectly fine with alternative randomizers, no randomizers, digital randomizers, or whatever. I don't grasp the irrational prejudices people have around this stuff.

[NRSASD]

Extremely. I've played many games with dice, without dice, or with only d6's, and yet I find I miss the normal range of D&D dice when I play other games. It's a purely emotional feeling, because I know logically about probability, die imperfections, etc. but it doesn't matter. Even though my group plays online nowadays, we still roll physical dice and use the honor system on die rolling. Maybe it's because D&D has always been a bright spot in otherwise troubled times for me, but yeah, dice are very important. Cards and the like can have better statistical outcomes, but nothing is as satisfying as rolling a natural 20 when all hope seems lost.

[Anonymouswizard]

Depends on what you mean.

My favourite systems are all d%, and I'm planning to make my own homebrew d% at some point, but otherwise I don't have any problem with the type of die used. I just find roll under to run much smoother than roll+mods, and apart from GURPS all roll under systems I've played are d% (although I do own Pendragon, which is d20 roll under). So the system does matter, but the dice used in the system don't.

On the other hand, the presence of a randomising factor is really useful as an arbitrator. It doesn't have to be dice, cards are just as good (and I like using them for initiative), and for other systems other methods can be used. I believe Dread uses a Jenga tower, I like the idea of drawing lots and only replacing them when you run out, and there's other good ones. EDIT: although there's nothing wrong with an entirely freeform game is not bad, and can even be fun, a randomising factor solves some arguments but can also create new ones.

On the other hand, I like dice, and am starting my own collection (but compared to someone like JAL you can see that I only recently started and don't have disposable income, only having a bit over a hundred), so any game I run will use dice even if it uses something else alongside them. I'll happily play in anything else, but if I'm running you can pry my dice from my cold dead fingers.

If the consequences of the roll aren't meaningful, don't roll. If failure has no consequences (e.g. unlocking your front door on a normal day, under no pressure) there's no point rolling. Trying to open your front door before the angry drunk guy chasing you catches up is totally worth an Open Front Door test, though.

One of the things that actually annoys me is when failure means nothing moves forwards. At best the rest of the party tries until somebody succeeds, at worst you're not allowed to try again and nothing else changes. I'm of the belief that whenever dice are rolled outside of combat there should be consequences (and possibly inside of combat, I'm thinking of switch from a standard 'until surrender, fleeing, or death' model from limiting it to one or two rounds of actions and then just ending it). Fail to pick the lock? A guard is coming, act! Critically fail and the guard catches you in the act.

What's annoying is when the GM section does support allowing the roll when failure means nothing happens (one of the few bits of games like Fantasy AGE that I dislike). If you're going to allow them to reroll just let them do it if they fail but give a consequence to failing the roll (you open the safe and get the documents, but guards are now banging on the door or have just opened it).

[Aliquid]

I'm... not sure what you're asking here. Are you asking about the actual, physical dice? Are you asking about the core resolution mechanic (roll + modifier vs. fixed target number)?

The actual physical dice.

Edit: But I can see where you're coming from, I think. I have a bunch of dice with uncommon numbers of sides—d3s, d5s, d7s, d14s, d16s, d24s, d30s, d100s (not percentile—they actually have 100 sides, look like golf balls), and a set of d10s numbered out to 10,000. I keep looking for ways to use them, since so few systems do. It'd be neat to get to actually use the things instead of just have them take up space. I imagine if I quit playing D&D altogether and only played D6 systems, I'd start to really miss rolling my other polyhedrals.

Yes, that is where I am coming from :)

Extremely. I've played many games with dice, without dice, or with only d6's, and yet I find I miss the normal range of D&D dice when I play other games. It's a purely emotional feeling, because I know logically about probability, die imperfections, etc. but it doesn't matter.

And that's really it.

It is an emotional thing, maybe a nostalgic thing, but not a logical thing. As I mentioned, other systems work better. Rolling 4d6 gives a nice bell curve which provides a better mechanical system than a d20... but when I play those games it feels like something is missing.

[Aliquid]

I've never really understood the dice fixation. I mean, they're pretty to look at and stuff, but I find that I don't really pay a damn bit of attention to that during the game itself. If a game has degenerated to the point where I am looking at my polyhedrals and going "Y'know, that's a really handsome shade of blue" then that game is failure. :P

I'm perfectly fine with alternative randomizers, no randomizers, digital randomizers, or whatever. I don't grasp the irrational prejudices people have around this stuff.

Just curious, but does this mindset apply to other aspects of your life?

For example, if you know someone who decides to redecorate their home. They go to a bunch of effort picking out paint colors and making sure the colors match the area rug and the couch etc... would you roll your eyes and think:
"I certainly wouldn't put that much effort into something like that. I don't spend an inordinate amount of time staring at my walls and pondering what a handsome shade of blue they are, and I certainly don't look back and forth between the rug and the wall and admire how they are coordinated."

[Pleh]

E-Dice never feel right to me. I use them in a pinch if I forgot the physical ones at home. I have a physical connection to my dice. Like a pitcher in baseball or a quarterback in football, I can feel the throw in my hand and I have a technique to it.

Superstition? Maybe. Probably. But even if it is, I feel like indulging in superstition of the dice is half the fun, even if some part of my brain always remembers it's nonsense.

[Potatomade]

I think I appreciate dice more in a tradition/cultural sense, especially now that I've started to go full grognard and play older editions. On some level I enjoy the fact that I'm playing the same game and rolling dice just like my forefathers did.

Not that my dad ever played D&D. HeroQuest was more his speed. But it's that kinda idea.

[Airk]

Just curious, but does this mindset apply to other aspects of your life?

For example, if you know someone who decides to redecorate their home. They go to a bunch of effort picking out paint colors and making sure the colors match the area rug and the couch etc... would you roll your eyes and think:
"I certainly wouldn't put that much effort into something like that. I don't spend an inordinate amount of time staring at my walls and pondering what a handsome shade of blue they are, and I certainly don't look back and forth between the rug and the wall and admire how they are coordinated."

Nope.

Because frankly, the color of your dice isn't going to influence anything, whereas the layout and decoration of your home influences a ton of stuff including your mood and what people think of you when they visit your home.

The way people treat dice is more like "I will die on the hill that only correct way to decorate your house is to hang a picture of a sailing ship over the fireplace."

Another thing that amuses me about dice is that most of the dice enthusiasts don't seem to care about the one actually important thing about dice, namely, fairness.

[NRSASD]

@Airk: To me at least, fairness isn't the important part. I know it isn't fair, but I love the feel of it. It's a totally logical vs emotional argument.

[sktarq]

Personally I like dice. I gives me things to fiddle with to blow off energy. It provides some small physical link to the results in the game that engages more senses and that builds immersion....

also lots of the little social moments and quips and the like I enjoy gaming are often linked to dice....the useless encouragements, the wild bouncing die that becomes the basis for a wild comment. The person to person stuff of passing the dice box. . . .

I rather prefer pool or mono-dice systems only because I find I can teach them very quickly in comparison to dx type systems. I personally don't like Non-numeral dice, those ones that have things like shields on one side, a skull on another etc. . . I guess I find those too game specific and also too dice focused. The dice should be an aide not the focus to me.

as for color etc of the dice. . . I have two basic needs and one preference. Need one, they shouldn't be distracting. Neon colors, baby pink in a some cases, noisy dice etc anything that causes people to break their thinking of the game in favor of the dice being odd. Need two, clear results - I shouldn't have to struggle (or even think) to read it, no funny fonts, clear numeric differences (6v9 5v6v8 etc), good contrast between the number and the base (often mixes with numeric differences-so a red number on a dark red and orange mottled base is a dice set I'd stay away from or at least consider high risk) The one preference, thematic consistency. Theme is a somewhat liquid concept. This could be a preference for black and red dice in vampire game or that every player in a DnD game has their own color-which can quickly help with things like initive rolls, easy lending with no losses at the end of the night, that kinda thing.

[Aliquid]

Nope.

Because frankly, the color of your dice isn't going to influence anything, whereas the layout and decoration of your home influences a ton of stuff including your mood and what people think of you when they visit your home.

But having a bag full of multiple sets of interesting dice sitting in front of me during a game does influence my mood. It also influences what other people think of me when they join the gaming table (might not be a positive influence on how they think of me, depending on the person... but an influence none the less)

The way people treat dice is more like "I will die on the hill that only correct way to decorate your house is to hang a picture of a sailing ship over the fireplace."

I haven't seen that attitude towards dice... if I ran into die fanatics like that, I would likely find them annoying too. I like *my* dice, I certainly don't care what other people use.

Another thing that amuses me about dice is that most of the dice enthusiasts don't seem to care about the one actually important thing about dice, namely, fairness.

I'm not arguing that. Actually that is part of the premise of my original post... even though I know other systems are potentially better and/or more fair, I still miss systems that use a variety of dice. (I realize you are talking about the fairness of an individual die rather than of a system, but the same concept applies)

[Anonymouswizard]

Another thing that amuses me about dice is that most of the dice enthusiasts don't seem to care about the one actually important thing about dice, namely, fairness.

Eh, I mean I'm more than willing to use whatever dice is near me, with the idea that the unfairness of various dice will even out over the long run (it's like buying beer in a pub).

I prefer dice more likely to be fair, so I try to restrict myself to monocolour dice (which tend to have less irregularities in them due to no mixing of different types of plastic), but I don't have the money to be able to justify GameScience dice or other particularly fair brands. I also don't use patterned dice so that they're easier to read.

I do have some dice that aren't fair, a bunch I don't use for anything other than tracking values, and a set of orange pipped d6s which tend to roll slightly below average or really well and so I'll also mainly use them to track hp.

But in general I don't have the time and money to be overly worried about fairness, when I get one or the other I'm going to be making fairer sets to use in games.

[Tinkerer]

For every person in my gaming group except for me, VITALLY IMPORTANT. For me I couldn't care less so long as we have some randomizing element. Heck I even let people touch my GM dice... except for the wrath of God (my giant d20).

[kivzirrum]

It shouldn't matter--simulated dice rolls should do just fine, or a stack of cards or other alternatives. And yet, to my primitive monkey brain, it just isn't the same.

Which is especially bizarre because my first introduction to D&D was the video game Baldur's Gate. So, you know, simulated dice rolls are something I should be used to. I have no explanation for the way I am, it's completely illogical, but I just love my dice.

[JeenLeen]

I think for me it is less that I like dice than that I dislike electronic means.
It bugs me to have to use a computer, phone, etc. (especially since I don't have or desire a smart phone) to do dice rolls instead of rolling the physical objects. But that's mainly an irrational Luddite tendency I have. My DM prefers his dice roller on his phone for most things and (besides rare times it crashes) it works pretty well.

I have forsaken my irrational preferences for a few systems... well, for Don't Rest Your Head... where I wrote a dice-rolling program since otherwise it was too much work to manage the up to 4 dice pools you use. (Plus it was a play-by-email game, so me and the players were largely playing at work, where having dice isn't really feasible.) I think if I ever really got into Riddle of Steel IRL I would do something similar for its combat system.

So, yeah, I like dice systems. I have never considered using cards or other physical objects that emulate the randomness similar to how dice do, but I could see that working well (and a deck of cards is cheaper than getting a new set of dice, if the last set is lost).

[Max_Killjoy]

There's nothing "luddite" about not wanting a camera-browser-spy-toaster-phone, it's just a personal preference, and it's no more "irrational" than wanting one.

And there's nothing wrong with wanting physical dice -- for some people, they're part of the experience of gaming.

[Anonymouswizard]

The reason I prefer physical dice is it's easier to eyeball them when running. While electronic dice are effectively as random as physical dice (depending on the exact die) it's a lot easier to roll and erase the screen before I look at them. Otherwise I don't care, I go with the group preference.

[Knaight]

I like actual, physical dice. Beyond that most of what I care about regarding the dice tends to have to do with probabilistic distributions and how they tie to mechanics, although there are a few mechanics that are fun to interact with on a physical dice level (e.g. exploding dice).