Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves

[Renegade Paladin]

He takes it all rather personally.

Yet he didn't show up to the Damocles Gulf when the Raven Guard and White Scars were there taking care of business on his end of the galaxy.

[Blackhawk748]

Yet he didn't show up to the Damocles Gulf when the Raven Guard and White Scars were there taking care of business on his end of the galaxy.

Weren't the Ultramarines busy with the whole Guiliman thing?

[Renegade Paladin]

Weren't the Ultramarines busy with the whole Guiliman thing?

War Zone: Damocles happened before Cadia blew up, so no.

[Blackhawk748]

War Zone: Damocles happened before Cadia blew up, so no.

So there is no reason why they arent there beating the tar out of Tau

[Cheesegear]

So there is no reason why they arent there beating the tar out of Tau

Calgar is the Gatekeeper. Calgar is Legendary for telling xenos where they're allowed to be. "The Great Crusade extends *this* far." Any more than *that*, and the Imperium risks expending too many resources." Calgar knows this, and, as a politician, makes deals and truces. Calgar is so smart and non-stupid, he's actually one of the few parts of this 'new Imperium' that Guilliman actually likes... Now if only Calgar, or anyone, really, had made changes to the Codex Astartes in 10 thousand years...

Except when you renege on him, he comes down on you, like a Space Marine Chapter Master who dual wields Power Fists.

Also, at the time of Damocles, Calgar was personally very busy.

[Blackhawk748]

Also, at the time of Damocles, Calgar was personally very busy.

Oh...oh god. Ya, Chapters Due was going on, that **** was nuts.

[Sinewmire]

Chaos doesn't deal with losing their leaders very well either, as shown in the Horus Heresy when even Angron and the whole World Eater legion breaks and runs as soon as Horus bites the dust.

Actually the Sons of Horus retreated immediately but the other legions didn't, they were forced to withdraw when the relief fleet led by Guilliman arrived. They blamed the Sons of Horus for losing the war, rather thatn just a battle against the Emperor, and that's why the Sons basically ceased to exist shortly after the Heresy.

[Drasius]

Finished Farsight - Crisis of Faith the other day. Extensive spoilers:

Spoiler: The origin story of half the Signature Systems, the 2nd sphere expansion and occasionally some stuff about Farsight

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- Quick flash forward re: the fighting on Arthas Moloch, how the Talisman of Arthas Moloch (1) was found and why Farsight can beat a Bloodthirster in melee combat
- A surprisingly solid look at how the Tau use "the Silken Conquest" to talk their way into being invited onto Imperial planets
- A bit of background on Arkunasha and why Farsight originally doesn't fully trust the Ethereals
- We spend some time with Farsights bros before they were the 8 with special attention to Hawaii 5-0 Ob'lotai 3-0 (the broadside AI)
- A water caste diplomat (Poor Malcador Por Malcaor gets possessed by a daemon of Tzeentch and can no longer lie (and proceeds to drive much of the plot from here on)
- We get some background on the fallout of the "victory" over the various imperial factions during the Damocles crusade and the near total destruction of Dal'yth
- Lots of Farsight bemoaning how things turned out between Him, ShadowTsundere and "Monat Kais" (ie. the guy from both the Fire Warrior game and Dark Crusade) and how incredibly awesome and perfect Puretide is/was
- Aun 'Va gets to twirl his saturday morning cartoon villian mustache when he mind controls the superior of the possessed diplomat into killing herself with her own bonding knife after the diplomat points out that the Ethereals want to get Farsight out of the way (infront of Farsight and some other high ranking Tau)
- We get some backstory on the Onager Gauntlet (2) as well as the PENChip (3), the Coldstar and the Stormsurge
- Farsight has more doubts about the Tau leadership so he talks to Puretides mental copy, who tells him lol, no, don't trust those guys
- 5 seconds later, Farsight is told that Puretides 2 other protege's are getting frozen so he rushes to ShadowTsuns side to hold her hand. She smiles, then remembers herself and tells him to "remove your hand, it is unseemly"
- The second sphere fleet takes off and >95% of the people are frozen while the ships use their VFR drive to pootle along between systems. Farsight takes the time to review the footage of the destruction of Dal'yth and create the Mirror Codex (4)
- Meanwhile, Chapter Master CaelosJobber or the Scar LordsJobber marines plans his cunning ambush with the help of a human psycher Mind-Science sympathiser (who is a Xeno Inquisitor being sneaky)
- The Scar Lords marines execute a tactical strike, dropping out of warp right into the Tau formation once they're underway. Unfortunately, they're only a single battle barge against an entire Tau fleet. Despite this, they board the Tau flagship via a small handful of bording torpedoes and get taken out like chumps by the 3 members of the 8 and a handful of firewarriors
- Notably, the guy with the Irridium Armour (5) and Onager Gauntet takes on a command squad but gets wrecked by CM Jobber in a Cataphractii suit with dual power fists and left for dead (again)
- We get an interesting interaction with the pair of combat drones attached to the Irridium guy
- The clone with the Fusion Blades (6) gleefully wrecks up the other bunch of marines offscreen
- The Broadside AI wrecks a bunch of marines and then transfers himself into a passing drone and self-destructs his broadside to get the remaining marines once they damage his sensor head
- Farsight gets told about the Imperial Ships Gellar field by the possessed diplomat and jumps into the Coldstar prototype, flies over to the Imperial ship, waits for them to fire a macro-cannon shot and manages to traverse the barrel and get into the ship via the loading breech of said macro-cannon
- He then proceeds to faceroll everything, get out of the suit, take out some combat servitors with his pulse pistol, overload the gellar field reactor, fight off some furies, jump back in his Ace Custom and fly home
- Unfortunately, a heldrake is summoned by the loss of the gellar field and it chases him down and severely damages his suit before getting blown away by a flight of Imperial Stormravens, but Farsights personal craft picks up his transponder and rescues our unconcious hero
- The Battle Barge is overrun by daemons now the gellar field is gone (something to do with the quick translation they made resulting in them still being half in the warp), so they decide that ramming the Tau flagship is the only logical course of action. This apparently takes ~ 2 hours. Don't ask how the Coldstar managed to fly there and back if it takes a battlebarge that long to cross the distance.
- Meanwhile, the Possessed Diplomat uses the confusion to start murdering his fellow water caste who had teased him about his inability to lie
- We get a flashback a few years to Arkunasha where the Ethereals (specifically Aun'Shi) **** Farsight over by calling an end to a fight that had taken 10 tau years to get to the verge of winning, pulling out because they were endangered. This is where Farsight begins to doubt.
- We come back to find Farsight arguing with the Ethereals again, this time about why the Ethereals sacrificed so many Tau and their flagship to save themselves and why only certain ranking tau were saved from the evacuation pods. "Because I said so, now stop asking questions". "Yes, boss. Well, at least we can wait for our reserves while we do repairs. Wait, why are you looking at me like that?" Yep, no reserves for you, this is your entire fleet and basically the entirety of the Tau military.
- Farsight heals up and it is decided that the loss of 1/3 of the Tau fleet "Billions of tau lives" (that happened offscreen during the 2 hour long ramming action) and everyone below 'la rank (ie, the grunts) isn't his fault since he was unconcious
- Whatever, he finsihes off his work on the Mirrordex while we continue on to Vi'orlos after the random encounter
- The Mechanicum run the planet and have taken over the mustache twirling villian role. They specifically harness the power of volcanoes to collect energy, but for some reason, they're rounding up Tau and literally shoving them onto conveyors to dump into said volcanoes. Because reasons.
- The Scarr Lords Chapter Master and most of the remaining brothers on the first battle barge apparently survived, rescued by another Scar Lords lord battle barge somehow. Time for revenge with the "almost 1000 battle brothers" now on the barge.
- The Tau assault the Vi'orlos system, somehow not being detected at all prior and put the mirrorcodex to the test
- The Broadside AI solos a column of Leman Russ tanks with his railgun, exploding them left and right, piercing multiple tanks with every shot
- Some Hammers of Dorn are on the planet for some reason and are pwned by Ionhead's who fly down from mantas to some cliffs
- Meanwhile Farsight deep strikes his crisis suits behind some Hammers of Dorn terminators and gives them all a plasma bath 'cause apparently they were to dumb and slow to raise their shields to protect their unhelmeted heads
- Some remaining firewarriors and some stealth suits try to pull a fish-of-fury on some Ad-Mech grunts, but radium carbines are OP and they get pushed back
- Farsight tells O'Vesa to science him up a plot device, and thus is born the Seismic Defibrilator (7)
- Not content with just that, he gets the Possessed diplomat to incite rebellion among the poorly trated Ad-Mech slave workers by shouting slogans over the hacked PA system which works better than expected due to the oddly perfect understanding and almost magical effects of his voice on the slaves
- The Tau put the sciencey plot device to work and the Ad-Mech counter attack with Rangers/Breachers/Onagers while continuing to conveyor tau prisoners into the volcano that the final fight takes place on
- Farsight can't stand holding position and jets over to save the tau prisoners but suddenly...
- The Scar Lords marines have their Librarian and 4 honour guard teleport from the battle barge into combat with Farsight. The Honour guard get wrecked in CC by the Crisis suits, but the Librarian has total Hax powers and casts Horrify on the Irridium commander while also casting Fiery Form and Wings of Sanguinius on himself.
- Neither Farsights Fusion blaster nor Plasma rifle can hurt him due to his hax powers, so Farsight shoots the lock off a cage holding "hundreds of Tau scientists" prisoner and they tackle the librarian into the volcano for the Greater Good
- Farsight turns back, blasts some fools as the diplomat and the inquisitor walk out to ask how things are going when suddenly the Librarian bursts out of the volcano (after being fully submersed in the lava magma), accuses Farsight of being a daemon colluding worm and attacks...
- Only for the inquisitor to blast him, get blasted by him and have the possessed diplomat make a fire lasso and 1 shot the librarian
- The Scar Lord Chapter Master, having seen that the brilliant tactical plan to send only 5 of his "almost 1000" warriors to take the planet completely unsupported, decides that Exterminatus is the only option left
- Somehow, Farsight has seen this coming (despite not knowing the Scar Lords weren't destroyed in their previous encounter, nor knowing any Imperial ships were in orbit) and arranged for Ob'lotai 3-0 to ride a manta out to meet them
- The Scar Lords battle barge fires 4 melta torpedoes at the manta (which is apparently not much larger than a thunderhawk) and Ob'lotai 3-0 rides the blast wave of the exploding manta allt he way to the battle barge, just as planned (no, seriously, this was their plan)
- The Scar Lords barge then opens its gunport to fire the world eater virus missile at Vi'orlos, but Ob'lotai (now revealed to be in the coldstar prototype) sails in and fusion blasters the missile just as it launches, destroying the death star battle barge in a massive explosion visible to the Tau on the ground
- The Tzeentch daemon tries to confront and kill the Inquisitor, but Farsight turns up to ask questions just as things get ugly and saves the day due to special training from Puretide all those years ago...
- But the last few lines subvert that and heavily imply that the daemon has possessed the inquisitor

The bits with the water caste diplomat were done surprisingly well, as were the interaction between the early members of the 8, the subversive tau broadcasts and the brief bit between the drones and the Irridium commander. Everything else was pretty bad, dipping into comically laughable contrivance at times. Would not recommend.

[Renegade Paladin]

... Why would disabling the battle barge's Gellar field while in realspace summon daemons?

[Wraith]

And why, of all things, would it summon a Heldrake, which is a half daemon/half machine-style hybrid? They specifically require real-space components, like Defilers or Dreadnoughts, and aren't just born from the warp when they feel like it.

....This sounds absolutely terrible. Not least because the protagonists seem to lose just about every fight they're in, not least because the Tau apparently have magic tech that solves all their problems exactly once before never, ever appearing again, but because everyone in it sounds like a complete moron, apart possibly for the Daemon and Puretide. Who is dead.

[Drasius]

... Why would disabling the battle barge's Gellar field while in realspace summon daemons?

Spoiler: Page 235

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...
"The Geller fields are still intact my lord," stammered Forecaptain Harrow. "I checked them myself. We rode out the translation without sustaining harm."
"They must have taken damage in the firefight," said Vaethosis though gritted teeth.
"Sire, no recorded Tau weapon could penetrate that far into the ship. The rear of the ship is still clad in empyric caul, admittedly. That sometimes happens with so swift a translation in theis region of the Eastern Fringe. But the chapter master's orders were highly specific. He himself gave us blessings as to the sanctity of our crossing."
...

That's the extent of the explanation you're given for the how and/or why of it, though it is mentioned earlier that the way they translated from the warp was notable for its swiftness and it being somewhat unusual.

And why, of all things, would it summon a Heldrake, which is a half daemon/half machine-style hybrid? They specifically require real-space components, like Defilers or Dreadnoughts, and aren't just born from the warp when they feel like it.

Spoiler: Page 231/232

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THE IMMATERIUM

Amongst the roiling clouds of raw emotion, a presence stirred. The entity saw a light, glowing and fierce - a lantern and a portal both. It fixed one glowing red eye upon it.

A fresh breach, there for the taking amongst the swirling coulds of nothingness. Already the lesser ones flocked around it, flapping their weak little wings as they tried to force themselves though. Few furies had the essence-power to rip their way through into the flesh-world. Few were anything but insects by comparison.

The entity dived, shrieking in triumph. No doubt its kindred would hear the cry, and come in close, pushing through in their turn. It cared little. By then it would have glutted itself on hot flesh and raw agony, and become strong in the sight of the gods. Either that, or the portal would close, healing up like a wound or a sutured mouth.

If the portal closed before the predator could reach it, it would vent its frustration on the lesser ones, tearing apart every entity it could find. If the breach closed soon after the predator has passed though, all the better, it would hunt alone and unrivalled.

Soaring toward the flickering portal, the entity folded its wings, spitting red-hot bullets into the lesser ones that flocked like moths aroun the lambent portal. The wretches shrieked in abject fear as the creature dived though, scattering them like sparrows.

For a moment, the predator knew nothingness.

The it felt its thoughs coalescing and crystallising once more. Its mortal form was hardening into metal and white hot anger. Piston-driven claws flexed as it ripped its way though the veil, its mechanisms and hull growing ever more solid as it emerged from the transdimentional chrysalis-stuff of the breach.

Nearly there. Nearly time to hunt.

The predator felt a strange gelid substance around it, and pushed through, its jet furnaces driving it forward towards the glittering black shroud ahead. There were silhouttes ther, shapes in the darkness. The outlines of mortal ships.

The shapes of prey.

That's literally all the info you get.

....This sounds absolutely terrible. Not least because the protagonists seem to lose just about every fight they're in, not least because the Tau apparently have magic tech that solves all their problems exactly once before never, ever appearing again, but because everyone in it sounds like a complete moron, apart possibly for the Daemon and Puretide. Who is dead.

That is an accurate summary, except the last part since PENChip Puretide is still alive at this point, but he's old, frail and basically confined to a hoverchair. They've only just brainscanned him. To be fair though, he's *probably* dead by the time they reach Vi'orlos given it's a journey of years, Tau don't live very long and he was ready to kick off, before they'd left Tau space.

You need to remember that this is the guy who wrote the wolfy wolves of wolfiness, 6th ed CSM, 6th ed Eldar, Warzone:Damnos and the Deathwatch Codex. If cancer could take human form, it would look like Phil Kelly. On the other hand, he was also responsible for both 5th ed DE and 6th ed farsight enclaves, going to show that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Blackhawk748]

And 4th ed Orks, which is why Ork players generally give him a pass, unless hes doing non spiky Eldar.

[deuterio12]

- Quick flash forward re: the fighting on Arthas Moloch, how the Talisman of Arthas Moloch (1) was found and why Farsight can beat a Bloodthirster in melee combat

Of course Farsight can beat a Bloodthirster in melee combat. He's got a name. What was the last time you heard of a named 40K character being beaten by a Bloodthirster in melee?being able to defeat a Bloodthirster close and personal is pretty much the bare minimum to be taken half-seriously in the setting (beating the Avatar of Khaine also works in a pinch if you can't find any Bloodthirster).

- Not content with just that, he gets the Possessed diplomat to incite rebellion among the poorly trated Ad-Mech slave workers by shouting slogans over the hacked PA system which works better than expected due to the oddly perfect understanding and almost magical effects of his voice on the slaves

Or you know, the slaves suddenly realized there's an alternative to being worked to death, shot for the lulz by a magos or lobotomized into servitors.

- Meanwhile Farsight deep strikes his crisis suits behind some Hammers of Dorn terminators and gives them all a plasma bath 'cause apparently they were to dumb and slow to raise their shields to protect their unhelmeted heads

Did you realistically expect anything more from the founding chapter that got wiped out by orks?

- The Scar Lord Chapter Master, having seen that the brilliant tactical plan to send only 5 of his "almost 1000" warriors to take the planet completely unsupported, decides that Exterminatus is the only option left

It's admirable how the so-called defenders of humanity so often and quickly decide to just try to blow up the planet with humies on it when they still have plenty of sphech merines left just because the Tau showed up. And They Shall Know No Fear besides the Greater Good.

- The Scar Lords barge then opens its gunport to fire the world eater virus missile at Vi'orlos, but Ob'lotai (now revealed to be in the coldstar prototype) sails in and fusion blasters the missile just as it launches, destroying the death star battle barge in a massive explosion visible to the Tau on the ground

Alas trying to out-shoot the Tau is a really poor tactic outside of tabletop.

And why, of all things, would it summon a Heldrake, which is a half daemon/half machine-style hybrid? They specifically require real-space components, like Defilers or Dreadnoughts, and aren't just born from the warp when they feel like it.

It's KAYOS. "when they feel like it" is precisely how the factions runs.

Actually the Sons of Horus retreated immediately but the other legions didn't, they were forced to withdraw when the relief fleet led by Guilliman arrived. They blamed the Sons of Horus for losing the war, rather thatn just a battle against the Emperor, and that's why the Sons basically ceased to exist shortly after the Heresy.

Angron and the world eaters.

Running away "Forced to whitdraw".

From the ultrasmurfs.

Yeah, that sounds just right, of course the primarch daemon prince of khorne and his legion of crazed fearless warriors with literal rage chips installed in their brains would perform an orderly retreat from one of their most hated enemies. That's what khorne berzekers are know to do, they calmly assess the situation they're in and whitdraw from seemingly overwhelming force.

[Wraith]

That's the extent of the explanation you're given for the how and/or why of it, though it is mentioned earlier that the way they translated from the warp was notable for its swiftness and it being somewhat unusual.

So... Knowing full well that a part of the ship was still dragging it's arse through the edge of warp, instead of moving away they just calmly sat there and opened the doors to let transports in and out? I can't possibly imagine how that could go wrong.

That's literally all the info you get.

You're right; It certainly sounds like a Heldrake, in which case it (the story, not you) is wrong because Heldrakes have human "brains" and they would be annihilated by direct contact with the warp just like any other mortal.

The alternative is that it's another daemon that can spontaneously manifest mechanical appendages, which is also wrong because that's the point of Daemon Forges and Dark Mechanicum Tech-Sorcerers. Daemons can't manifest such things themselves, that's why they get bolted manually into things like Soul Grinders as it helps them say manifested in real-space.

On the other hand, he was also responsible for both 5th ed DE and 6th ed farsight enclaves, going to show that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

6th Ed. was indeed a bad time for Phil Kelly. I remember him writing solid, if somewhat uninspiring codices for several years and then it... got weird.

What was the last time you heard of a named 40K character being beaten by a Bloodthirster in melee?

Sanguinius and Marius Amalrich.

It's admirable how the so-called defenders of humanity so often and quickly decide to just try to blow up the planet with humies on it when they still have plenty of sphech merines left just because the Tau showed up.

There are plenty of humans in the galaxy, but only a limited number of tau - especially during the period in which the story is being set. They're killing not even a thousandth of one percent of humanity in order to kill - if I read Drasius summary correctly - about 1/3rd of the Tau military AND nearly their entire command structure all in one go. That's a worthwhile prize, and likely less lives lost than it would have taken to call in the Guard and take the world back by force.

It's KAYOS. "when they feel like it" is precisely how the factions runs.

There's a limit to how much "lol random" you can get away with. As crazy and deranged as Chaos can be, there are some fundamental rules within the canon that it abides by; it's powered by negative emotions, souls exist and have value, and daemons cannot easily manifest in real-space.

I know that there's "rituals this" and "ancient evil artifacts" that, but there is some consistency that most writers adhere to. Phil Kelly is not one of those writers, it seems.

That's what khorne berzekers are know to do, they calmly assess the situation they're in and withdraw from seemingly overwhelming force.

Khorne Berzerkers absolutely don't run; they fight and fight and die fighting because even their blood and skulls are worthy tribute to the God of Murder.

The World Eaters, however, are not yet Khorne Berzerkers at this point. They still use Devastator Squads, they still have logistics and supply drops as well as a fortified HQ in the form of the Conqueror. They're well on their way, certainly, but they're not really Khorne Berzerkers until after Khârn is 'killed', has a chat with Khorne face-to-face, and wakes up as an Avatar of the Blood God.
Arguably, they're not entirely lost until after Skallathrax. where Khârn kills off the last few vaguely-reasonable World Eaters and the chain of command is sundered once and for all.

[Destro_Yersul]

You need to remember that this is the guy who wrote the wolfy wolves of wolfiness, 6th ed CSM, 6th ed Eldar, Warzone:Damnos and the Deathwatch Codex. If cancer could take human form, it would look like Phil Kelly. On the other hand, he was also responsible for both 5th ed DE and 6th ed farsight enclaves, going to show that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

It's funny, because I associate Phil Kelly mostly with Skaven, where I think he did reasonably well.

[hamishspence]

You're right; It certainly sounds like a Heldrake, in which case it (the story, not you) is wrong because Heldrakes have human "brains" and they would be annihilated by direct contact with the warp just like any other mortal.

Heldrakes have the Daemon keyword - even if there's a human brain in there too. They're like enormous Possessed Marines or Warp Talons - except, instead of just "human body + suit of armour" for the Daemon to manipulate, it's "human body + whole aircraft".

Warp Talons are Chaos Raptors that have become so daemonic that they wander the warp - using their talons to rip their way in and out.

The Heldrake, in this case, is like a giant Warp Talon, with less good claws - it has to take advantage of existing breach rather than create its own.

[Sinewmire]

Khorne Berzerkers absolutely don't run; they fight and fight and die fighting because even their blood and skulls are worthy tribute to the God of Murder.

The World Eaters, however, are not yet Khorne Berzerkers at this point. They still use Devastator Squads, they still have logistics and supply drops as well as a fortified HQ in the form of the Conqueror. They're well on their way, certainly, but they're not really Khorne Berzerkers until after Khârn is 'killed', has a chat with Khorne face-to-face, and wakes up as an Avatar of the Blood God.
Arguably, they're not entirely lost until after Skallathrax. where Khârn kills off the last few vaguely-reasonable World Eaters and the chain of command is sundered once and for all.

Yeah this. Angron and Kharn are still capable of tactical thought.

Maybe he even got banished to the warp, and "met up" with his followers in the eye? Interesting.

They retreated because their overlord is dead, they're half-way into the fortress (the worst possible place to be caught) so they either push forward and risk not overwhelming Jagatai Khan and Rogal Dorn before the defenders catch them a kick in the rear, or they turtle up and set up field defensive fortifications right outside the actual defensive and end up stuck between the fresh unbloodied relief forces and a sally by Jaghatai Khan.

It was probably the right decision.

[Drasius]

1st - https://www.humblebundle.com/books/t...arhammer-books

Some great deals there if you don't mind non-dead tree format

So... Knowing full well that a part of the ship was still dragging it's arse through the edge of warp, instead of moving away they just calmly sat there and opened the doors to let transports in and out? I can't possibly imagine how that could go wrong.

Yeah, there's lots of issues, even more than the obvious stuff listed here. Like I said, it's not a great book.

You're right; It certainly sounds like a Heldrake, in which case it (the story, not you) is wrong because Heldrakes have human "brains" and they would be annihilated by direct contact with the warp just like any other mortal.

The alternative is that it's another daemon that can spontaneously manifest mechanical appendages, which is also wrong because that's the point of Daemon Forges and Dark Mechanicum Tech-Sorcerers. Daemons can't manifest such things themselves, that's why they get bolted manually into things like Soul Grinders as it helps them say manifested in real-space.

It's later specifically called out as a Heldrake (the autocannon variant infact). When I said that's all the info you get, I meant as to how it came through the warp. IIRC, there's another story I read not too long ago that has a similar thing happen (a Heldrake out of nowhere), IIRC that time it was chasing a Valkyrie.

There are plenty of humans in the galaxy, but only a limited number of tau - especially during the period in which the story is being set. They're killing not even a thousandth of one percent of humanity in order to kill - if I read Drasius summary correctly - about 1/3rd of the Tau military AND nearly their entire command structure all in one go. That's a worthwhile prize, and likely less lives lost than it would have taken to call in the Guard and take the world back by force.

You are. Wiping out the entire 2nd sphere expansion would be a huge deal. No more Farsight Enclaves, while it seems minimal, is actually a big turning point later since the various times he has come to the aid of the non-rebellious Tau, it's been to save them from getting totally, irrecoverably stomped.

[Drasius]

Someone was asking about the Primarch Series a while back and I just finished Peturabo - Hammer of Olympia:
- Started off really well
- Got bogged down in the middle something horrible
- Ended quickly without as much impact as I was hoping for, I suspect that's partially as a result of the lack of impact the middle has. I see what they were going for, but it failed.

It covers 'Bo Perturabo being found, the how's and why's of Dantioch's physical condition, constant helmet and estrangement from the IW as well as the Decimation of Olympia. Also has probably the most thorough detailing of the Hrud that I can remember in any 1 book.

Overall, decent enough if you like Perty or wanted some more page-time for Dantioch (who gets ~1/4 of the book focused solely on him), but very skippable otherwise. The first chapter is the high point in the book IMHO, and it goes downhill from there until the last when it gets a quick spike back up again. That these are the only chapters that deal with what makes Peturabo the way he is screams "lost opportunity" to me.

One humerous bit from literally the day after Peturabo was found (though he was ~6 at the time but couldn't remember anything before that):

"There was only the iron on his anvil. With his indomitable will he shaped it, refusing to aknowledge its strength as he forced it to accept its new form. Iron was honest and true, without guile. A warrior's metal, with none of the sickness of gold, he thought.
How did he know that? Did it matter? He liked the iron; he did not care for gold.

[Brookshw]

Started reading Cult of the Spiral Dawn (previous title: Genestealer Cults) by Peter Fehervari. Only half way through but I'm enjoying it. I see a similar title called Cult of the Warmason by C.L. Werner, anyone know if it's any good?

[thethird]

Started reading Cult of the Spiral Dawn (previous title: Genestealer Cults) by Peter Fehervari. Only half way through but I'm enjoying it. I see a similar title called Cult of the Warmason by C.L. Werner, anyone know if it's any good?

I haven't had the chance to read any of the cult books, but will check them :)

The book I am reading right now and would strongly recommend is Sons of the Hydra by Rob Sanders.

[Forum Explorer]

So I'm almost through the Beast Arises, and I'm thinking back on the series, and is it just me, or was the whole Vulkan subplot almost pointless?

I mean, he shows up, attacks the beast, dies, and then Koorland takes over anyways.

[Cheesegear]

was the whole Vulkan subplot almost pointless?

I blame editorial mandate. Equally valid, is that destruction of a really cool plot thread happens in a book by Gav Thorpe.

[Forum Explorer]

I blame editorial mandate. Equally valid, is that destruction of a really cool plot thread happens in a book by Gav Thorpe.

I liked The Beast Must Die while I was reading it. It more felt like the later books ignored that it seemed like Vulcan killed the (or a) Beast in favor of setting up the Deathwatch.

Honestly, I feel like the editorial mandate was putting Vulkan in the story at all.

[Drasius]

I nabbed Roboute Guilliman: Lord of Ultramar when I got Hammer of Olympia and unfortunately but unsurprisingly, David Annandale has churned out another ****ter.

- The practical/theoretical bit is so overdone that the woofs would start to make fun of them
- Marine captains effortless triumph over dreadnaught sized warbosses
- The marines cause more casualties to themselves than the orks do
- The dramatic twist is incredibly obvious the instant it's hinted at
- There's no sign of a master strategic plan in anything RG does and he gets played for a chump (tactically) by the orks
- He carries on about why you need to tell/tech/explain the why's of big event to your subordinates and then deliberately doesn't tell a bunch of subordinates about his plan for their chapter
- Half the story focus is on the 2nd Destroyer chapter and how they're ... tolerated in the ultras, but doesn't make us do anything to see why, nor make us care
- Worst of all, the story about RG, the Invictarii, the entirety of the 1st chapter and a bunch of other no-names fighting through the last stronghold of an Ork empire while uncovering the ruins of an ancient human empire is BORING in the extreme. This isn't unexpected from the man who made Iron Hands and Salamanders fighting Giant Dinosaurs (and losing) the most boring and painful "novel" I've ever had the displeasure to read.

Yet again we've got a wasted opportunity to delve into the background and/or thoughts of one of the Primarchs and it's totally thrown away in favour of absolute drivel where the heroes charge in, outnumbered 400:1 and mow all their enemies down without taking any losses for 90% of the book. It's a terrible book written by a terrible person and David Annandale is now on my "do not ever bother to read" list along with *barf* Nick Kyme.

[Cheesegear]

It's a terrible book written by a terrible person and David Annandale is now on my "do not ever bother to read" list along with *barf* Nick Kyme.

So, Death of Antagonis was fluke, and his books during Beast Arises were more likely written by committee, and not actually by him, alone. Makes sense. Sad. But sense.

[Drasius]

So, Death of Antagonis was fluke, and his books during Beast Arises were more likely written by committee, and not actually by him, alone. Makes sense. Sad. But sense.

I gave him the benefit of doubt about Damnation of Pythos, everyone is allowed to screw up at least once, even if it was monumentally bad, and a few other mediocre efforts aren't the end of the world but this following on from Warlord: Fury of the God Machine, drives it home. Anything else of his I will be waiting on a review from someone else, and it had better be on par with Death of Antagonis or I'm not bothering.

I know he can write, Antagonis was great, and he absolutely nailed both Iron Corpses and The Binary Succession, so why do his efforts swing so wildly from one extreme to the other?

[Cheesegear]

Oh, a new book about Crimson Fists. I wonder if it's going to take place during Noctis Aeterna where Rynn's World was under assault, and we get to know who Daemon Prince Rhaxor is, which ends with Pedro Kantor standing in blood-drenched armour before Guilliman. Guilliman gives Kantor a personal commendation and says to Kantor's face that Dorn would've been proud of him.

...Oh, no. Never mind. It's the first Rynn's World Incident. The one with the Orks and the blowing up. Never mind.

[Blackhawk748]

Oh, a new book about Crimson Fists. I wonder if it's going to take place during Noctis Aeterna where Rynn's World was under assault, and we get to know who Daemon Prince Rhaxor is, which ends with Pedro Kantor standing in blood-drenched armour before Guilliman. Guilliman gives Kantor a personal commendation and says to Kantor's face that Dorn would've been proud of him.

...Oh, no. Never mind. It's the first Rynn's World Incident. The one with the Orks and the blowing up. Never mind.

Again? Dont we have like 3 books about this?

[Drasius]

Looking on GW's site as I'm almost out of reading backlog and I see this:

is scheduled for July. After the glowing reviews Cheese has given, I'll pick it up.

Also, Vulkan and Khan are the next Primarch books.