Druid Weapon Proficiencies

[Guinaur]

Can someone explain to me why Druids are proficient with scimitars and not bows? My girlfriend loves playing druids, but also loves using bows, so I usually house-rule that she can use a bow... but still... bows are made of wood and fibers, while a scimitar is made of steel... I dont get it?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Scimitars are curved blades and sickles are curved too, so naturally the Druid is proficient with both.

QED.

[Falrin]

Has something to do with the traditional "profession" the class is based on, drop it if you want to.

Next: Giving bow proficiency is no big deal. On the other hand the druid already is a powerhouse.

More: i find the Crossbow a better choice in most cases. When you focus on ranged weapons the Longbow owns, but the humble crossbow allows a dumped str and has a good threat range.

[Ikkitosen]

2nd ed hangover. Druids were not very awesome back then, and giving them a sword made them slightly more attractive.

[Darrin]

Can someone explain to me why Druids are proficient with scimitars and not bows? My girlfriend loves playing druids, but also loves using bows, so I usually house-rule that she can use a bow... but still... bows are made of wood and fibers, while a scimitar is made of steel... I dont get it?

The druid's weapon selection is a mishmash of holdovers from previous editions, fluff justification, and extremely poor research on the historical background of what little we know about real-world druids (with a few dashes of new-age/neopagan revisionism for extra flavor).

On one hand, druidic culture was either stone or bronze age, so iron or steel-based weapons wouldn't necessarily be forbidden so much as they *didn't exist yet*. So they'd be familiar with simple weapons such as clubs, staves, and spears. Assuming you don't have access to stronger metals, these weapons can be easily made out of wood, stone, bone, or soft metals like copper, bronze, and crude iron.

Also, weapons developed from agricultural implements or strongly associated with a religious signifigance makes sense for druids. This is where we get the sickle and dagger... unfortunately, the absence other weapons with agricultural origins, such as the scythe, kukri, kama, and nunchaku is particularly troubling.

The absence of bows is also puzzling, and is maybe best explained as it "doesn't fit the traditional image of druids", which we think as being associated with agriculture and the harvest. Bows are representative of hunter-gatherer cultures rather than agriculture-based cultures (but then again, so are spears, which apparently are "druidic"). As far as we know, druidic cultures hunted game just as much as the visigoths down the road, but that sort of activity wouldn't be associated with the "priest caste" (if there was such a thing). Although why a druid would pick up a sling over a bow for hunting is beyond me... I would guess because it's a simpler weapon, whereas being trained to use a bow requires way more time than a priest might have.

The scimitar was added most likely with the reasoning that "we have to give them at least one hand weapon that doesn't completely suck", and "well, it kinda resembles a sickle". It also gives the druid a bit of an exotic flavor (even though the middle east, where the weapon originates, isn't all that well known for it's "druidic culture"). They became particularly prevalent during 2nd edition, where you just weren't considered much of a druid without a scimitar. Explaining why a celtic-based nature priest would favor a middle-eastern weapon that relies on more advanced iron-age metalsmithing techniques... uh... cuz it has a curved blade... like the moon, so nature gawds think it's groovy.

[tainsouvra]

Can someone explain to me why Druids are proficient with scimitars and not bows? [...] bows are made of wood and fibers, while a scimitar is made of steel... I dont get it

Druid weapon proficiencies are based on the (in-game) Druidic traditions--they have nothing to do with what the weapons are made of. Those are the weapons available because those are the weapons Druids would be taught how to use, due to their ceremonial or traditional value.

Metagaming a moment, it's a weapon selection based on theme (like the Rogue's) and also has some limited balancing value (also like the Rogue). Giving the Druid free access to bows does make them a bit more powerful, but if that isn't a concern in your game, go for it.

[MrNexx]

On one hand, druidic culture was either stone or bronze age, so iron or steel-based weapons wouldn't necessarily be forbidden so much as they *didn't exist yet*. So they'd be familiar with simple weapons such as clubs, staves, and spears. Assuming you don't have access to stronger metals, these weapons can be easily made out of wood, stone, bone, or soft metals like copper, bronze, and crude iron.

You are, quite simply, wrong. The Celtic culture (both continental and in the British Isles) at the time of the Roman invasions was quite solidly an Iron Age culture. They used bronze, but not for their weapons; it was a pretty metal.

Also, weapons developed from agricultural implements or strongly associated with a religious signifigance makes sense for druids. This is where we get the sickle and dagger... unfortunately, the absence other weapons with agricultural origins, such as the scythe, kukri, kama, and nunchaku is particularly troubling.

Not to mention the flail, and glaives, guisarmes, usw.

As far as we know, druidic cultures hunted game just as much as the visigoths down the road, but that sort of activity wouldn't be associated with the "priest caste" (if there was such a thing).

The druids were the learned caste of the Celts. The continental Celts, especially, matched Dumezil's trifunctional hypothesis... a warrior caste which were the general political leaders, a learned caste, which included priests, and the farmers, who were the majority.

The weapon selection for druids doesn't make a lot of sense. If we were to base it on traditional Celtic weapons, it would include the short sword, long sword, spear, dagger, and short bow, probably with clubs and staves thrown in, as well. They had axes, but didn't use them for combat.

[Miraqariftsky]

Also, weapons developed from agricultural implements or strongly associated with a religious signifigance makes sense for druids. This is where we get the sickle and dagger... unfortunately, the absence other weapons with agricultural origins, such as the scythe, kukri, kama, and nunchaku is particularly troubling.

Hmm, how about flails?

[skywalker]

Because scimitars are nature swords? They just seem like the kind of sword a druid would use. They're kinda exotic and mysterious, you know? Just like druids. I've never seen a WotC built druid using a scimitar, though. That's some food for thought.

But they aren't proficient with bows because they're primary casters. Why would anyone who plans on being a spell-slinger waste time learning how to use a bow?

Also, bows are hunting implements. They make hunting a lot easier than it was before they were invented. Now, as D&D druids go, I'm sure they'll hunt for subsistence. But I also think they would shy away from learning how to use weapons that make the raping of the land by the masses even easier.

[tainsouvra]

The weapon selection for druids doesn't make a lot of sense. If we were to base it on traditional Celtic weapons, it would include the short sword, long sword, spear, dagger, and short bow, probably with clubs and staves thrown in, as well. They had axes, but didn't use them for combat.

Weapon selections in general aren't made to make a lot of sense when compared to their real-world analogues. A medieval Warrior who wears full plate and carries a scimitar in a world where gunpowder isn't even imagined, well, that really isn't a lot better.

Weapon choices in D&D are based on particular elements from the fantasy genre, and simply do not relate to their real-world equivalents. The D&D Druid is only very loosely based on real-life druidic culture, it has a fantasy culture of its own. Given the somewhat unusual set of conditions that D&D gives for its version of druidic tradition, along with the fantasy-driven weapon availability, the Druid's weapon selection does make as much sense as can be reasonably expected.

[Darrin]

You are, quite simply, wrong. The Celtic culture (both continental and in the British Isles) at the time of the Roman invasions was quite solidly an Iron Age culture. They used bronze, but not for their weapons; it was a pretty metal.

Sorry, sloppy research on my part. I'm confusing "druidic culture" with the pre-bronze age people that built the stone circles such as Stonehenge. The D&D version of druid includes both the Celtic concept of druid as well as neolithic stone-age cultures and proto-agrarian groups switching from hunting-and-gathering to early forms of agriculture. A lot of what we think we know about druids has been hopelessly confused with popular myth and revisionist anthropology.

[Telonius]

Personally I wouldn't be so much worried that the Druid can or can't use any specific weapon, as worried that he's going to suddenly turn into a giant bear and cast a spell at me as he devours my spleen.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Tell her to play an elf.

[Magi_Ring_O]

Elves still have to face the no-casting-with-metal-unless-its-a-scimitar thing.
Also, using a bow is not as hard as everyone seems to think. Its using a bow well that is difficult, and that is what BAB is for.

[Aquillion]

I think the scimitar is a holdover from 2nd edition that was left in because it doesn't really matter one way or the other anymore--Druids have better things to do now than hit things with an ok-ish melee weapon.

Giving them a bow would make them a bit stronger, which they really don't need. It's not like it would make a huge difference either way, though.

[Krrth]

just FYI, I think it's 3.0 FR, but a druid of Milekki(sp) can use metal weapons and armor with no penalty.

[Mael]

The weapon selection for druids doesn't make a lot of sense. If we were to base it on traditional Celtic weapons, it would include the short sword, long sword, spear, dagger, and short bow, probably with clubs and staves thrown in, as well. They had axes, but didn't use them for combat.

The javelin was also used (definatly used in Ireland anyway, probably other Celtic areas as well).

[EvilRoeSlade]

Elves still have to face the no-casting-with-metal-unless-its-a-scimitar thing.
Also, using a bow is not as hard as everyone seems to think. Its using a bow well that is difficult, and that is what BAB is for.

Druids are only prohibiited from wearing metal armor. They can use metal weapons. So if you want to play a druid who can use a bow, either be an elf, or be a man (pun intended) and take the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat. That's what it's there for.

[MrNexx]

just FYI, I think it's 3.0 FR, but a druid of Milekki(sp) can use metal weapons and armor with no penalty.

Druids of Mielikki can use any martial or simple weapons, and any light or medium armor. In 3.0, druids were limited in weapons, not just "only knew a few".

[Fax Celestis]

The scimitar was added most likely with the reasoning that "we have to give them at least one hand weapon that doesn't completely suck", and "well, it kinda resembles a sickle". It also gives the druid a bit of an exotic flavor (even though the middle east, where the weapon originates, isn't all that well known for it's "druidic culture"). They became particularly prevalent during 2nd edition, where you just weren't considered much of a druid without a scimitar. Explaining why a celtic-based nature priest would favor a middle-eastern weapon that relies on more advanced iron-age metalsmithing techniques... uh... cuz it has a curved blade... like the moon, so nature gawds think it's groovy.

Actually, I think it's inclusion was on the grounds that "There's no khopesh in 3e." Which, y'ask me, is lame.

[Jayabalard]

Actually, I think it's inclusion was on the grounds that "There's no khopesh in 3e." Which, y'ask me, is lame.

probably the case, though there's not much reason to match up druids with the khopesh (not many druids in persia/egypt)...

From what I recall, back in 1ed druids were limited to "ancient weapons" regardless of whether they were Celtic in origin.

[Fax Celestis]

Reference image:

Spoiler

Show

I think the khopesh/druid link was made because of their sickle-like qualities.

[Matthew]

1e Druid
Weapons - Club, Dagger, Dart, Hammer, Scimitar, Sling, Spear and Staff

2e Druid
Weapons - Club, Sickle, Dart, Spear, Dagger, Scimitar, Sling, and Staff

3e Druid
Weapons - Club, Sickle, Dart, Spear, Short Spear, Dagger, Scimitar, Sling, and Staff

Khopesh is in the 2e PHB, Druids are not proficient its use.

[Edit]
The 2e Complete Druid's Handbook had Kits that allowed use of the Khopesh and also revised the 1e Druid so that he was also allowed.

[Fax Celestis]

My AD&D 2e book says that druids get the khopesh, Matthew.

EDIT: This book, for reference:

[Matthew]

I'm looking at that book right now, can't see it on p. 35. Mine is First Printing 1989, by the looks of it.

[Fax Celestis]

Maybe I'm on acid. I'll check when I get home.

[Lavidor]

1e Druid
Weapons - Club, Dagger, Dart, Hammer, Scimitar, Sling, Spear and Staff

2e Druid
Weapons - Club, Sickle, Dart, Spear, Dagger, Scimitar, Sling, and Staff

3e Druid
Weapons - Club, Sickle, Dart, Spear, Short Spear, Dagger, Scimitar, Sling, and Staff

Khopesh is in the 2e PHB, Druids are not proficient its use.

[Edit]
The 2e Complete Druid's Handbook had Kits that allowed use of the Khopesh and also revised the 1e Druid so that he was also allowed.

I noticed that 2e druids replaced hammer with sickle.

[Matthew]

Heh. Get off the Acid Train, Fax!

I noticed that 2e druids replaced hammer with sickle.

Yes, odd isn't it? The revised 1e Druid that appears in the Complete Druid's Handbook has the following Weapons available:

1e Druid (Revised)
Weapons - Club, Dagger, Dart, Hammer, Khopesh, Scimitar, Scythe, Sickle, Sling, Spear and Staff

[Jayabalard]

1e Druid
Weapons - Club, Dagger, Dart, Hammer, Scimitar, Sling, Spear and Staff

Khopesh is in the 2e PHB, Druids are not proficient its use.

[Edit]
The 2e Complete Druid's Handbook had Kits that allowed use of the Khopesh and also revised the 1e Druid so that he was also allowed.

/shrug ... I didn't play 2nd edition, nor did I ever get the 2e complete anything. I'll have to take a look if I can dig out my books, but as I recall druids were indeed proficient in the khopesh in 1ed ad&d

[Fax Celestis]

The 2e Complete Druid's Handbook had Kits that allowed use of the Khopesh and also revised the 1e Druid so that he was also allowed.

That's gotta be what I was thinking of.