Minotaur w/o LA adjustment

[Scotty]

I wanted to play a minotaur for my new campaign and my DM cooked this up so that we wouldn't have to mess with the LA. Let me know what you think.

btw...the way we're RPing this is he was raised by elves. Sounds crazy, but we thought it would be something different to try out.

MONSTROUS HUMANOID

RACIAL TRAITS

+6 STR, +4 CON, -2 CHA, -2 WIS

LARGE SIZE
SPACE/REACH: 10 FEET/10 FEET
BASE SPD: 30FT

WEAPON PROF: GREAT AXE, LONG BOW, LONGSWORD, ALL SIMPLE WEAPONS
DARKVISION 60FT
+5 NATURAL ARMOR
GORE ATK 1d8
POWERFUL CHARGE pg 189 MM

AUTOMATIC LANGUAGES: COMMON AND ELVEN
BONUS LANGUAGES: ORC, DWARVEN, INGAN
+4 TO SPOT, LISTEN, AND SEARCH CHECKS

YOU DON’T GET ANY OF RACIAL HIT DIE OR THE RACIAL SKILL POINTS AND FEATS.

[Rama_Lei]

Way overpowered. Way too many bonuses for a LA O.

[RTGoodman]

All that for no racial hit dice or LA? I'd go with that, because that's gonna be the most powerful and/or broken 1st level character ever. Of course, everyone else is gonna be mad that you're so powerful.

The most balanced minotaur that I've seen with no LA or racial HD are the Krynn Minotaurs from Dragonlance campaign setting.

Krynn Minotaur
-Medium size, base speed 30 feet, etc.
-Ability mods: +4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha
-+2 Bonus to Natural Armor
-+2 Bonuses to Intimidate, Use Rope, and Swim
-They can take the Scent special ability as a feat
-Natural weapon (Gore) that does like 1d6 (or 2d6 on a charge) +1.5 Str mod damage
-Favored Class: Fighter

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Hallavast]

The Krynnish minotaur from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting is fairly balanced as a playable LA: 0 race.

They get something like +4 str, -2 dex, -2 int, and -2 cha. They're medium sized and get a few miscellaneous features as well... They're very civilized in Dragonlance (they resemble romans). Fun race to play in general.

Edit: ACH!! NINJA!!!

[Scotty]

I want to play a large character...any suggestions on what could be changed on the Krynn Minotaur that is a Large size category? Would a LA of 1 or 2 be more fair for the race the way its written? I dont want it to be over powered, and I dont mind a LA...I just dont want the LA to be get to the point that it is a complete waste of time.

[Starbuck_II]

I wanted to play a minotaur for my new campaign and my DM cooked this up so that we wouldn't have to mess with the LA. Let me know what you think.

It'd be hard since: he has Str and Con bonus. Without a Dex penalty to offset this: unbalanced.

btw...the way we're RPing this is he was raised by elves. Sounds crazy, but we thought it would be something different to try out.

MONSTROUS HUMANOID

RACIAL TRAITS

+6 STR, +4 CON, -2 CHA, -2 WIS

-2 Cha is offset by +2 Con (by the rules). +1 Str is offset by -2 Wis.

So you have overall +2 Con and +5 Str more. So LA +3.25.

LARGE SIZE
SPACE/REACH: 10 FEET/10 FEET
BASE SPD: 30FT

Large + reach is worth 0.75 an LA. So most likely LA.


Overall: you have LA +4 (if DM is lenient).

WEAPON PROF: GREAT AXE, LONG BOW, LONGSWORD, ALL SIMPLE WEAPONS
DARKVISION 60FT
+5 NATURAL ARMOR
GORE ATK 1d8
POWERFUL CHARGE pg 189 MM

AUTOMATIC LANGUAGES: COMMON AND ELVEN
BONUS LANGUAGES: ORC, DWARVEN, INGAN
+4 TO SPOT, LISTEN, AND SEARCH CHECKS

YOU DON’T GET ANY OF RACIAL HIT DIE OR THE RACIAL SKILL POINTS AND FEATS.

+5 NA is +1.75 LA
Gore with 1d8 is .7.5 LA
So this is +2.5 LA.

Wait free weapon feats, powerful charge, and bonuses to skills?

If you meant not adding these; why list them?

Anyway, without racial feat/skill: LA +5 at least. With them? Skills LA + 0.50
Weapon Feats: 0.25, PC feat is 0.25
So LA +10:
You can at most have this for 4 HD and 3 or 4 LA.

Really, this isn't balanced.

Compare youir guy to a Dwarf or human. How do you call it balanced?

[Dhavaer]

I want to play a large character...any suggestions on what could be changed on the Krynn Minotaur that is a Large size category? Would a LA of 1 or 2 be more fair for the race the way its written? I dont want it to be over powered, and I dont mind a LA...I just dont want the LA to be get to the point that it is a complete waste of time.

Have you considered using the SRD minotaur with full racial hit die but no LA?

[UserClone]

I would say go with a half-minotaur, ala Dragon #313.
"Half-minotaur" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the humanoid, giant, or monstrous humanoid type from small to huge in size.
A half minotaur uses all the base creature's statistics and SA's except as noted here.

Size and Type: The base creature's type does not change. If the base creature is of small or medium size, it gains a size category, becoming medium- or large-sized, respectively. See Table 4-2: Changes to Statistics by Size In the MM for changes to a creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined therein.
Speed: If the base creature's size increased due to the application of this template, all its speeds increase by 10 feet.
Armor Class: The base creature's Natural Armor bonus increases by +2.
Attacks: If te base creature lacked a gore attack, it gains a gore attack. When not using weapons, the half-minotaur may attick with its gore at its highest attack value and gaining its full strength bonus to damage. When using a weapon, a half-minotaur often uses its gore as a secondary natural attack.
Damage: The half-minotaur's gore attack deals damage according to its size, as follows: Small: 1d4 (I am assuming this is an error on the creator's part, as a minimum of small size is required, and application of the template changes a small creature's size to medium), Medium: 1d6, Large: 1d8, Huge: 2d6.
Special Qualities: A half-minotaur retains all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities:
Darkvision (Ex): A half-minotaur has darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
Minotaur Cunning (Ex): Half-minotaurs gain much of the innate cunning of their minotaur parent. This gives the half-minotaur a +4 bonus on intelligence checks to escape Maze spells and the ability to determine which direction is North automatically.
Scent (Ex): The half-minotaur inherits a very keen sense of smell. This allows him to detect approaching hidden enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell alone.
Abilities: Change from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Con +2, Int -2.
Skills: A half-minotaur has a +2 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks.
Feats: A half-minotaur has Track as a bonus feat.
Environment: Same as the base creature or underground.
Organization: Solitary.
CR: Same as the base creature if it did not gain a size category, otherwise +1.
Alignment: Usually chaotic.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +1.
Note: This is not my template, I have HR'd a LA+2.

Edit: Obviously, you would apply yours to an Elf or Half-Elf.

[Starbuck_II]

I think:
Minotaur:
+2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int
Large size, Monstrous humaniod,
—A Minotaur’s base land speed is 20 feet. However, Minotaurs can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Orc, Goblin, Terran.
Darkvision out to 30 feet
+1 natural armor bonus
Natural Weapons: Gore (Starts out dealing 1d4, at 10 HD, it deals 1d6).
Weapon Proficiency: A minotaur is proficient with all simple weapons.
Favored Class: Barbarian

Seems balanced.

[Scotty]

It'd be hard since: he has Str and Con bonus. Without a Dex penalty to offset this: unbalanced.

-2 Cha is offset by +2 Con (by the rules). +1 Str is offset by -2 Wis.

So you have overall +2 Con and +5 Str more. So LA +3.25.

Large + reach is worth 0.75 an LA. So most likely LA.


Overall: you have LA +4 (if DM is lenient).

+5 NA is +1.75 LA
Gore with 1d8 is .7.5 LA
So this is +2.5 LA.

Wait free weapon feats, powerful charge, and bonuses to skills?

If you meant not adding these; why list them?

Anyway, without racial feat/skill: LA +5 at least. With them? Skills LA + 0.50
Weapon Feats: 0.25, PC feat is 0.25
So LA +10:
You can at most have this for 4 HD and 3 or 4 LA.

Really, this isn't balanced.

Compare youir guy to a Dwarf or human. How do you call it balanced?

First...to clarify...I never said it was balanced...I was looking for ideas to help my DM and I make it balanced. Second...LA of 10 is a bit off I think. A lot of stats were adjusted down from the orignial minotaur in the MM and that one was a LA of either 8 or 9...I cant remember. If I am wrong please correct me. My D&D experience is limited.

[daggaz]

There is only one way to play a character like this and keep it balanced.

Everybody in the whole group gets to ignore a certain amount of Level Adjustment (tho balancing the racial HD is trickier), and the DM compensates by running a higher powered campaign.

[Starbuck_II]

First...to clarify...I never said it was balanced...I was looking for ideas to help my DM and I make it balanced. Second...LA of 10 is a bit off I think. A lot of stats were adjusted down from the orignial minotaur in the MM and that one was a LA of either 8 or 9...I cant remember. If I am wrong please correct me. My D&D experience is limited.

You don't underastand how they did La did you?
4 Hd and 3 LA is roughly 10 LA.
6 HD and 2 LA is worth about 12 to 14 LA and no HD (around there).

You see enough racial HD and LA lowers.

[Scotty]

I would say go with a half-minotaur, ala Dragon #313.
"Half-minotaur" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the humanoid, giant, or monstrous humanoid type from small to huge in size.
A half minotaur uses all the base creature's statistics and SA's except as noted here.

Size and Type: The base creature's type does not change. If the base creature is of small or medium size, it gains a size category, becoming medium- or large-sized, respectively. See Table 4-2: Changes to Statistics by Size In the MM for changes to a creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined therein.
Speed: If the base creature's size increased due to the application of this template, all its speeds increase by 10 feet.
Armor Class: The base creature's Natural Armor bonus increases by +2.
Attacks: If te base creature lacked a gore attack, it gains a gore attack. When not using weapons, the half-minotaur may attick with its gore at its highest attack value and gaining its full strength bonus to damage. When using a weapon, a half-minotaur often uses its gore as a secondary natural attack.
Damage: The half-minotaur's gore attack deals damage according to its size, as follows: Small: 1d4 (I am assuming this is an error on the creator's part, as a minimum of small size is required, and application of the template changes a small creature's size to medium), Medium: 1d6, Large: 1d8, Huge: 2d6.
Special Qualities: A half-minotaur retains all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities:
Darkvision (Ex): A half-minotaur has darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
Minotaur Cunning (Ex): Half-minotaurs gain much of the innate cunning of their minotaur parent. This gives the half-minotaur a +4 bonus on intelligence checks to escape Maze spells and the ability to determine which direction is North automatically.
Scent (Ex): The half-minotaur inherits a very keen sense of smell. This allows him to detect approaching hidden enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell alone.
Abilities: Change from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Con +2, Int -2.
Skills: A half-minotaur has a +2 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks.
Feats: A half-minotaur has Track as a bonus feat.
Environment: Same as the base creature or underground.
Organization: Solitary.
CR: Same as the base creature if it did not gain a size category, otherwise +1.
Alignment: Usually chaotic.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +1.
Note: This is not my template, I have HR'd a LA+2.

Edit: Obviously, you would apply yours to an Elf or Half-Elf.

This looks great...exactly what i'm looking for...Thanks a million for your input.

[Jayabalard]

There is only one way to play a character like this and keep it balanced.

Everybody in the whole group gets to ignore a certain amount of Level Adjustment (tho balancing the racial HD is trickier), and the DM compensates by running a higher powered campaign.

Nope there are multiple ways, the easiest of which is to just use the fluff of a minotaur without the crunch to back it up. Use the standard human (or other PHB race) abilities and call yourself a minotaur, give yourself a minotaur appearance without giving yourself any special abilities on top of that (ie, stay medium sized, no +- to attributes, etc.

[UserClone]

Scotty, you have no IDEA how much I appreciate reading that! It seriously took me 1/2 hour+ to write that post, but I just had this feeling that this was what you were looking for! Yay!