A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default The (cohort) thing in LA

    Alright, so on a monster stat block, where they are talking about LA does that mean it should only be used for cohorts?
    Ex:
    Level Adjustment: +2 (cohort)

    Or does it mean that if you use it for a cohort it is considered 2 levels higher? Basically, what is that for? Showing it is suitable for one perhaps?
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    It means it has LA 2 and it is only allowed to be used for cohorts and monsters, not PCs. Yes as a cohort you treat it as 2 levels higher than its HD + class levels. So a Pegasus paladin 2 is effectively a level 2 (LA) + 4 (HD) + 2 (class levels) = level 8 cohort. They probably don't want to allow it as a PC for various reasons. For example it might make a great mount so they'll allow it as a cohort, but the lack of opposable thumbs and large size makes it difficult to play as a PC so it's not recommended.

    With DM approval I think you could use the LA as-is for PCs. Just be prepared for dealing with things like doors, small passageways, social situations, etc., etc. Or something else I've thought of before would be to make the mount your primary character, and a humanoid the cohort. Makes for great rp banter as the mount asserts its superiority. But make sure most of the campaign isn't cramped dungeons as you're hurting yourself every time you're forced to dismount.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2017-10-17 at 10:33 AM.
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    It means it has LA 2 and it is only allowed to be used for cohorts and monsters, not PCs. Yes as a cohort you treat it as 2 levels higher than its HD + class levels. So a Pegasus paladin 2 is effectively a level 2 (LA) + 4 (HD) + 2 (class levels) = level 8 cohort. They probably don't want to allow it as a PC for various reasons. For example it might make a great mount so they'll allow it as a cohort, but the lack of opposable thumbs and large size makes it difficult to play as a PC so it's not recommended.

    With DM approval I think you could use the LA as-is for PCs. Just be prepared for dealing with things like doors, small passageways, social situations, etc., etc.
    Thanks! I was wondering because it came up in a homebrew I was discussing
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Basically means you can't use it for a PC, but can use it as a cohort gained from Leadership (which should be hard-banned at almost every table cause it's absolutely busted) at the listed LA (on top of its given RHD).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    A 20th-level fighter should be able to break rainbows in half with their bare hands and then dual-wield the parts of the rainbow.

    Dual-wield the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.

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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by Svata View Post
    Basically means you can't use it for a PC, but can use it as a cohort gained from Leadership (which should be hard-banned at almost every table cause it's absolutely busted) at the listed LA (on top of its given RHD).
    Awh, you don't like PC's running around with small armies at their back? (Ribbing, totally ribbing. I'm of the same opinion.

    Thank you both for the help!
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    The army is a PAIN, but well, the cohort is a big problem too. the fact that you get to be 2 PCs, one of which is just a level lower at the cost of a feat is... kinda game-shattering
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    A 20th-level fighter should be able to break rainbows in half with their bare hands and then dual-wield the parts of the rainbow.

    Dual-wield the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.

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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by Svata View Post
    The army is a PAIN, but well, the cohort is a big problem too. the fact that you get to be 2 PCs, one of which is just a level lower at the cost of a feat is... kinda game-shattering
    I know, I was kidding
    I've allowed leadership once [shudder] never again.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by Svata View Post
    Basically means you can't use it for a PC, but can use it as a cohort gained from Leadership (which should be hard-banned at almost every table cause it's absolutely busted) at the listed LA (on top of its given RHD).
    Actually I think if you allow it then you should give it to all players and that way it's not busted at all. There are lots of cool things you can do with a cohort. Roleplay wise. Fancy mount wise as noted here. Or heck maybe you just need some dude to manage your lands outside of the party, then it's not busted even if you're the only one who has it. Plus cohorts are squishy; why would he want to risk his life hanging around PCs 2 levels higher than him? It's in the DMG not the PHB because they already knew it can be easily busted, and so made it available only by special DM permission. But with proper control it can do wonderful things.

    IIRC in 1e/2e you automatically got a cohort and a keep at a certain level, no feat involved. After all it makes sense for powerful PCS to play a major part in the world with great political power and connections. Instead of simply advancing to super murdering hobo.

    And since it's already pre-banned by RAW and it's permission only, you don't really need to ban it.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2017-10-17 at 10:51 AM.
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Actually I think if you allow it then you should give it to all players and that way it's not busted at all. There are lots of cool things you can do with a cohort. Roleplay wise. Fancy mount wise as noted here. Or heck maybe you just need some dude to manage your lands outside of the party, then it's not busted even if you're the only one who has it. Plus cohorts are squishy; why would he want to risk his life hanging around PCs 2 levels higher than him? It's in the DMG not the PHB because they already knew it can be easily busted, and so made it available only by special DM permission. But with proper control it can do wonderful things.

    IIRC in 1e/2e you automatically got a cohort and a keep at a certain level, no feat involved. After all it makes sense for powerful PCS to play a major part in the world with great political power and connections. Instead of simply advancing to super murdering hobo.
    You know, I had more problems with the hordes of followers then the cohorts themselves... They are easy to adapt an encounter around... the fact that a player thinks he can just march through any nation he wishes with a few hundred followers? Rather annoying, especially when he accuses you of just trying to make the feat a waste... because he destroyed a possible peace treaty because he marched through the place with an army! (Taking anything he wished on the way, along with kidnapping a few npc's) [/rant]
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Ok then there's a problem with an army of fragile guys following a party of high level PCs around. There are lots of cheesy tricks you can pull, such as magic missile spam. But at the same time the foes PCs fight put them at daily risk of death. So they should be saved for actual war, not day to day adventuring. And they should not follow the party everywhere. Manning a keep like the original version is one more reasonable example. Part of it is remembering that these are merely NPCs that the PCs are in charge of, not dominated slaves.

    Marching an army in such a way that breaks a peace treaty OTOH is a dumb oversight by a forgetful player. The PC should be allowed a reminder that his in character knowledge would give him. Straight up tell him if he should know. If he wouldn't necessarily know, it's a DC 5 or 10 skill check to know common knowledge. Which may be done untrained. Knowledge skills are trained-only only if the DC is above 10.

    If he's intentionally abusing power, then deal with it the same way you would with PCs trying to steal and so on. Local law enforcement, soon escalated to bounty hunters and/or NPC adventurers if the PCs don't comply.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2017-10-17 at 11:03 AM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Ok then there's a problem with an army of fragile guys following a party of high level PCs around. There are lots of cheesy tricks you can pull, such as magic missile spam. But at the same time the foes PCs fight put them at daily risk of death. So they should be saved for actual war, not day to day adventuring. And they should not follow the party everywhere. Manning a keep like the original version is one more reasonable example. Part of it is remembering that these are merely NPCs that the PCs are in charge of, not dominated slaves.

    Marching an army in such a way that breaks a peace treaty OTOH is a dumb oversight by a forgetful player. The PC should be allowed a reminder that his in character knowledge would give him. Straight up tell him if he should know. If he wouldn't necessarily know, it's a DC 5 or 10 skill check to know common knowledge. Which may be done untrained. Knowledge skills are trained-only only if the DC is above 10.

    If he's intentionally abusing power, then deal with it the same way you would with PCs trying to steal and so on. Local law enforcement, soon escalated to bounty hunters and/or NPC adventurers if the PCs don't comply.
    oh, the PC had many chances and I warned him more then once... It was intentional. And if you constantly send assassins/bounty hunters it begins to get... "oh, give me a minute?" "Why?" "Just wait" [cue assassins]
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    Alright, so on a monster stat block, where they are talking about LA does that mean it should only be used for cohorts?
    No, not exactly.
    Level Adjustment:
    Quote Originally Posted by D&D Glossary
    Some creatures' level adjustment entries include the word "(cohort)." Although these creatures may be problematic as PCs, they make good companions for a character who has taken the Leadership feat. Some other creatures arenít intended for use as PCs or cohorts but can become companions through the use of the Improved Familiar feat. In these cases, the level adjustment entry is a dash followed by the words "(Improved Familiar)."
    The "may be problematic as PCs" isn't equal to "should only be used for cohorts" - compare with RAW for "(Improved Familiar)"
    But ban on (cohort) creatures as PC is a popular house rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    does it mean that if you use it for a cohort it is considered 2 levels higher?
    Yes, it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by NothingAbnormal View Post
    don't like PC's running around with small armies at their back?
    Note: Leadership isn't the only way to get a Cohort - see Dragon Cohort feat, Enchanter Variant, Pale Master's Undead Cohort, or Thaumaturgist's Planar Cohort
    This way you get a Cohort, but no followers

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    Default Re: The (cohort) thing in LA

    Huh, knew the others (and let PC's use them) but somehow missed the thaumaturgist, thanks for pointing it out!
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    Well, it seems that life has deposited me here, yet again. Hopefully this time I get to stay a while, as I intend on revising some old homebrew.

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